Let's talk about Silver...

@zlone …

any more thoughts on the merits of pure silver over pure copper in digital cables?
 

I’m using Purist Audio CAT7 (silver) Ethernet cable and like it.
I’ve also used AQ Diamond USB (silver) and it was good. I actually found it to be smoother than the copper Audience FrontRow. 

@slaw my post wasn’t directed at you. In fact, I didn’t see your post before I posted.

My post was merely to point out that many buy alot of disparate gear and drop in a cable without any basis for doing so other than “I wonder if these will work”. I’ve heard Shindo systems with Shindo silver IC’s and speaker cables and there wasn’t a hint of brightness.  Same with Kondo and same with Audio Note UK. Well designed, properly matched gear supplemented with well designed and properly matched cables/IC’s compliment one another.

Great conversation, thanks all for sharing your experience. 

There have been some comments, but any more thoughts on the merits of pure silver over pure copper in digital cables?

I have a coaxial switcher with 3 coaxial inputs and 1 optical input. This allow me to plug multiple coaxial sources into my DAC’s single coaxial input. Being I prefer coaxial’s sound this works great for me. I was able to achieve synergy connecting my Bluesound N130 to the Coaxial Switcher’s input using a silver plated cable, then to my DAC, then from my DAC to my PreAmp using another Silver Plated Coaxial … But was not able to get any sort of synergy connecting my Blu-Ray’s Coaxial out to my DAC the same way. At first I did not like any of the sound when I connected the N130 but gave some time for the cables to burn in and now sounds great. As for the Blu-Ray, I ended up going optical out of the Blu-Ray to the COAXIAL Switcher’s Optical input being it converts Optical In to Coaxial Out then to the DAC and sounds much better.

Strikingly many anecdotal accounts of silver plated copper conductors begin with, "At first ...," across various brands and types of cables. This implies the combination of these metals at first gives an impression of increased resolution, which is later concluded to be distortion of some type. Conversely, tin plated copper is another matter entirely that is much appreciated by many (myself included).

It is often said that "silver sounds bright," but this begs the question as to if the metallurgy itself is a driving variable (purity claims should be regarded with suspicion), or if this is at least partly due to differences in cable construction given the typically small diameter of silver cable conductors as compared to copper.

It would be interesting to conduct a blind test among a group of listeners using cables of otherwise identical construction aside from the conductor (and perhaps connector) metallurgy and determine if each can be reliably and repeatedly identified.

In my experience with my components I found all silver cables lighten the bass and brighten the treble. Presentation is still smooth but brightened. Soundstage slightly more open but overall there is a lessening of warmth. All copper has the exact opposite and can be too warm. I prefer silver clad copper and have had great success with cables from DH Labs. When trying their upgraded all silver I found them too thin and bright for my system. 

@ghasley

I’ve built my system in the same room for over 30 years now. I think I have a grasp of the difference products make in my space......if your post was directed at mine.

^ I agree. 

Pure silver signal cables are not bright. For example the most natural sounding IC's I ever heard were pure silver foil.

But silver plated copper cables give an artificial sense of detail. On mid-fi systems this seems to work well and can be positive upgrade. But once you get your system sorted to a transparent level, you can easily hear how un-natural silver plated copper cables are.

Such a humorous topic. By nature and in general, audiophiles are prone to mix and match with very little empirical data to go by. Brand A preamp may sound ok to your ears with Brand B amp and Brand C speakers. Then, there is a guy making speaker cables and interconnects in his garage in Spokane and we are absolutely convinced that they should work wonders in our systems. Let’s ignore the fact that the guy has a midfi setup in said garage and it sounds good to him.

Lets contrast that with a company like Shindo who had their own silver IC’s and speaker cables which sound glorious in a Shindo system while sounding equally marginal in another setup. How could that be? That’s why I chuckle when someone gives an absolute endorsement without ever experiencing the system in question.

Shindo spent alot of time experimenting and arrived at an optimal match. Kondo did. Audio UK did. I have all silver litz speaker cables and interconnects in one system and all copper litz in another system and both sound natural and right. I swear by these cables and interconnects in my system and yet, they would probably sound wrong in another setup. Bright and tipped up? Not even close…in my system. 

I owned the AQ Thunderbirds, but I was able to find a used pair of 2M Firebirds. The Firebird does add more dimension, so I sold the Thunderbirds.

Wish I could get the Dragons, but...

ozzy.

I currently have Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval 9 bi-wire and VH Audio Silver Pulsars in my system. Nothing in your face at all. No etch, no perceived brightness.

I've used silver cladded copper phono cable for years. Bob's Devices mid line cable. I regard it highly for value/performance. 

Have an ET 2.5 wired with Audio Note silver in an earlier system, no complaints.

@kennymacc

You mention high quality silver XLR but preferred the Thunderbird. Did you audition the Firebird XLR by chance? Curious about your thoughts if so. 

I’m described as a “detail-freak”. My system is sounded to be quick on transients. Vinyl is are my principal medium.

For the minority of open reel to reel users, I switched from pure copper to custom- made pure silver interconnects into the tube preamplifier. Startling improvement in detail and realism from a Studer semipro machine. No downside other than the increased costs of silver. I was sufficiently impressed that I changes all my interconnects to Darwin silvers. They’ve different grades of silver and treatment. The audible difference convinced me that unsurprisingly all “silver” isn’t audibly the same.

@lak Analogue Seduction on eBay. They didn’t have the length that I needed listed (1.5M), so I messaged them and they sent me a link. It’s in St Louis now en route to Kansas City.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233845761317?ViewItem=&item=233845761317

@ghdprentice 

My experience is that low cost silver interconnects tend to be harsh and bright

and @grannyring 

Silver on AC plugs always sounded a tad thin and tipped up. Silver hook up wire in my builds always sounded a tad thin with less body than I care for and very detailed.

This was my findings exactly.  I moved to all copper cables and enjoyed fuller range and less etchy highs.  For me it was eventually Kubala Sosna.  But I think there is silver in my Shunyata  Denali 6000v2 and the 20 amp Shunyata Omega XC v2 20a power cable, which add sparkle and life to my second system. So probably well executed, silver is ok; yet I stick by my all copper wires elsewhere and no more cable merry go round for me!

@sls883 where did you order the Graham Slee CuSat50 interconnects from?

I liked it for headphone cables but not used it in speaker systems

Biggest effect will be in simple tube equipment like Audio Note.

Of course cable choice is both personal taste and system defendant.  My main cable, a 4-meter run from my linestage to my amp is Audio Note Sogon (pure silver litz).  My speaker wire is Sogon as well.  I am considering Sogon or some cheaper Audio Note wiring for the internal wiring of my speaker.  The alternative is some really old Western Electric wire.  

About 15 years ago, I tried a high quality pair of pure silver interconnects in my audio system, but they actually were too bright for my taste.  Currently, I use a super phenomenal pair of top copper interconnect made by Audioquest (Thunderbird XLR).  I honestly believe that the Audioquest Thunderbird interconnects are my end-game interconnects.  My speaker cables (Superconductor 3), and one of my power cables (Aluminata)  are made of  Alumiloy (JPS Labs).  Then, I also utilize one Audioquest silver/copper power cables (Firebird) for may DAC.  My other two power cables, and my ethernet cables are all made of copper.  I'm extremely pleased with the sound quality that the mix of audio cables produce in my audio system!!!  Happy listening.               

@ghdprentice I can verify that less expensive silver cables are generally not great. I have a box full of cables that I bought for $100 to $200 hoping to get lucky.  I'm not using any of them.  The Apature cables are actually pretty decent, though.

I opened my wallet and bought the Black Cat Silverstar 88 cables and they're excellent.

I just purchased a used XLR cable to try out between my dac and preamp. It took about 5 minutes to decide that it's going in the box. 

The Graham Slee CuSat50 is one of the few less expensive cables that really impressed me ($175 used). It's all copper. It's unfortunate that they don't appear to be available in the States for people to try.  I ordered a second pair on ebay from a UK seller. 

Silver on AC plugs always sounded a tad thin and tipped up. Silver hook up wire in my builds always sounded a tad thin with less body than I care for and very detailed. Silver in my cable builds …. the same result. Always.

Expensive silver cables from other manufacturers can sound smooth, silky and nicely detailed. However, they still lacked the body, weight and meatiness of great copper. I suspect this is a subjective reality for me. Not something that is true always for all listeners. Welcome to the world of audio🙂.

As far as digital goes I find silver even more reflective of my above statements. This has been my experience in dacs and with USB cables. Again, I think this is absolutely subjective and a sensitivity I happen to have. This is not truth for all.

My experience is that low cost silver interconnects tend to be harsh and bright. As you move up in quality that completely disappears. For instance I have had a set of real Nordost Odin 2 on my system and they were not even remotely bright or harsh... they were simply stunning. 

I spent several years (a couple hundred hours) back in the 90's comparing in detail a host of interconnects. My conclusion was that inexpensive interconnects sounded like their metal... copper, silver coated copper, or silver. But as you got into audiophile interconnects that distinction went away. Obviously a tremendous amount of design and testing goes into audiophile cables and they use the many different materials and designs to achieve their sound characteristics. 

I think it depends greatly on the design and quality of materials in the cable. I’ve found both Acoustic Zen and VooDoo (cryoed) silver interconnects to be nicely detailed and very musical and balanced.  Sometimes I think a lot of equipment is designed/voiced using copper cables so when customers use silver it might sound a little brighter than the designer intended, but that’s just a blind guess.  I’d be wary of cheap silver cables as that’s probably where you can run into trouble. 

I've tried a bunch of copper, silver plated copper, and all silver cables.  Cables by DH Labs, Morrow, Harmonic Technology, Synergistic Research, XLO, Core Power Technologies, Apature (silver), Silver Audio, White Zombie, etc.

I generally favor the pure silver cables.  I landed on Black Cat Silverstar 88 silver cables for preamp to amp and dac to preamp. I also recently discover Graham Slee CuSat50 cables which are all copper.  Using it between my sacd player and preamp.  I like it so much that I ordered another pair from the UK to try between my phono preamp and preamp. 

I brought home some speaker cables that a friend wasn’t using to try them out. They are 8awg "mil spec" copper with a very nice looking silver coating on each strand. Nice gold plated BFA (aka Z style) banana plugs. Put them in and immediately noticed nice midrange and treble. Listening to jazz they seemed fine.

Then I put on some rock and some classical with good bass and they were severly lacking in bass (could be they are just strong in mid/treble so when I turn them down to get the midrange the right volume, the bass is too low. I plan to do a volume test with test tones without changing volume controls to see which it is.

If he doen’t want them back I’ll make a nice power cord from them.

Jerry

PS I keep repeating myself so I'm sure some of you have heard it before but I am a very strong believer in never using a cable for digital that isn't at least silver coated.

I’ve been using Darwin Cables for many years and they are the best I’ve heard. Not bright, great base, wonderful mids, airy highs, detail without etch, etc. They get out of the way of the music like cables are supposed to. Low mass connectors, very low capacitance, and just a pure, single strand of silver of a very small gauge is their way of doing things. I have no need or desire to try anything else after all I’ve gone through.

If you were to just stick to their entry level cables, you’d be surprised. If you want to experiment, check out their specials section of demos, hybrid attempts, and any clearances they may have.

All the best,
Nonoise

i am fairly materials agnostic I've had silver and copper, and even some carbon and ceramic cables in my system. I go by overall sound quality, right now my analog cables interconnect and speaker are all copper, Kondo, Auditorium23, and Audio Note UK. My only silver cable is my digital cable by Jorma Cables and it does sound amazing.

I've only heard one pair of Kimber all silver RCA interconnects in my system. They did sound bright to me and didn't remain in my system for long. I am now using a pair of DH Labs BL-1 Series II interconnects that are silver plated copper and they sound just fine. I'm sure there are other factors that contribute to how interconnect cables sound other than conductor material.

I’ve never had a problem with pure silver, and have found it among my very best choices in IC’s. I’ve had issues with silver plated which for whatever reason seems to take a while to break in, then sounds just like copper.

Personally for my most critical connection (DAC to Integrated) I made my own IC’s from DH Labs/Connex cables from Parts Connexion. In addition to being pure silver they are balanced, and foil shielded so ideal for XLR. The one downside is that being solid core they are a little brittle and can break at the terminal. Otherwise I now stick to Mogami and World’s Best. My experience playing around with Wireworld IC’s made me realize that so many boutique brands were just masking one frequency or another and I’ve tried getting away from that.