Nietzsche and Runaway Audio Consumption
Came across this today. A lot of posts bring up the issue of "how much is enough?" or "when is audio consumption justified" etc.
Does this Nietzsche aphorism apply to audio buying? You be the judge!
Friedrich Nietzsche: “Danger in riches. — Only he who has spirit ought to have possessions: otherwise possessions are a public danger. For the possessor who does not know how to make use of the free time which his possessions could purchase him will always continue to strive after possessions: this striving will constitute his entertainment, his strategy in his war against boredom.
Thus in the end the moderate possessions that would suffice the man of spirit are transformed into actual riches – riches which are in fact the glittering product of spiritual dependence and poverty. They only appear quite different from what their wretched origin would lead one to expect because they are able to mask themselves with art and culture: for they are, of course, able to purchase masks. By this means they arouse envy in the poorer and the uncultivated – who at bottom are envying culture and fail to recognize the masks as masks – and gradually prepare a social revolution: for gilded vulgarity and histrionic self-inflation in a supposed ‘enjoyment of culture’ instil into the latter the idea ‘it is only a matter of money’ – whereas, while it is to some extent a matter of money, it is much more a matter of spirit.”
Nietzsche, Friedrich. 1996. Human, All Too Human: A Book for Free Spirits. Cambridge University Press. (p. 283-4, an aphorism no. 310)
I'm pretty sure @mahgister will want to read this one! (Because they speak so artfully about avoiding the diversion that consumption poses to the quest for true aesthetic and acoustic excellence.)
You are a gentleman.. I know that i take too much place sometimes... I apologize to you for that... I will try my best to never annoy you... I respect you...
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You are not wrong! I will say you are right... But at least these are only facts in these few line.. Then in fire? yes... But not set by me.... North america is on fire now about freedom issues... Then why not spelling the truth in a "philosophical" audio threads? And for death count think just about the "opioid" criminal count... it make me puke... People life shattered by criminal officially backed up right now by most politicians.. In my country canada it was the truckers that acted wisely and pacifically... The greatest pacific organization manifestation the world has ever seen... It is not Washingtom mob here... It is a worlwide movement of consciousness.. And like consumerism blind people in audio matter, mass hysteria, conformism, like described in Asch experience and in the Milgram experience is everywhere to be seens in North america...
Then audio matter and philosophy are good... But in these time we can apply our working brain to the universal censorship ... When many ask for it... Voltaire is dead for many hundred years ago he struggle for free speech he will be at risk to be put in jail today not in China probably in North America... In his own country he will be put on a surveillance watch and censored by google, facebook and all official medias... Then it is not your thread which is on fire in reality ... Is calling a cat a cat in few line, spelling the truth, is it throwing the fire? Not really the fire is there but many with blinders donty even see it...Some want to not even acknowledge reality and facts... Caling criminal those who are criminals, is only freedom act, when those same officially proven criminals are at the front page of newspaper like heroes working for us people who are censored and lied about everything... It is not hard to verify that with thousand of non paid corporate scientits worldwide... Ash experience and Milgram experience explain it all... when i was young i did not believe these experience made sense scientifically, God! i was stupid and naive and credulous about myself also.... Speaking about a real fire is not throwing it to begin with and at last... Then in this little world of this audio thread my few line post is a fire, but the main thing is that my little post is pure fact and truth...Then...The fire dont come from me...Save for those who dont want to see it in the first place... I am pretty sure you are yourself lucid and you dont use blinders.. You just remark that my last post is not neutral for an audio forum and yes you are right... My best to you ... And thanks for this unusual intelligent thread idea...
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Pfizer is a criminal organization , not a corporation dedicated FIRST AND LAST to health at all save for brainwashed sleepwalkers... It take few seconds to pick among many others criminal pursuits this one only... This is only ONE legal action from 2009.. Do you think that this corporation improved from 2009 and before? https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/pfizer-pays-record-fine-for-illegal-promotions-1.789220 «Over the years, the company has also faced lawsuits where consumers claimed the drugmaker sold defective drugs, and the U.S. government has charged the company with health care fraud.» |
Wise post and observation... I think the same as you... I dont need any upgrade and i dont feel frustrated at all with my 500 bucks system now, thanks to acoustic method, but there is always place to a better results and a better design .. the only question is at which cost and for which improvement? Acoustic cost me NOTHING...
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"Mandated mass vaccination for ALL is a destruction of health and freedom"
Absolutely. It's good to see that the party shenanigans of our colourful leader Boris have derailed the tyrannical march towards jab mandates in England at least. Could also be that the National Health Service could ill afford to have 100,000 staff dismissed for their unwillingness to participate in a global experimental drug trial. Even audiophiles cannot live in a bubble. These past 2 years have been life changing for many people and not in a better way. We have all witnessed what uncurbed lust for money and power can lead to. As we know both money and power usually go hand in hand and both can be extremely corrosive, not to mention extremely dangerous too.
Whilst the likes of Pfizer and the global banks may be congratulating themselves the physical, psychological and economic harm done to millions of people will be incalculable.
In any case there is always a strong argument for spending money wisely and never more than now. Forums such as this can certainly help to bring high quality playback sound to within the reach of an increasing number of people. In fact this might well be a new golden age for budget audio. Perhaps we have never had it so good?
The idea that "more expensive" must indicate the direction of an upgrade is where the true audiophile and the mere spender part ways.
I'd agree, although there are some who still like to see it the other way around. It's great for the audio industry to have these big spenders bring in desperately needed capital. In fact we need more, not less of these folks. Long may they continue to please their hearts and fancies, what else is life about, but please don't insist you're doing it for reasons of sound quality.
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You said too much and you said too less... Spitting is not thinking.... And do you speak about everyone ignorance in this thread or only mine? If it is mine, enlighten me... If you dare to speak about all the people alleged ignorance indistinctly in this thread spare us your spitting, stay silent....
«It is not ignorance but the blinders habit which are breathtaking»-Anonymus Smith
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But what my last posts about a world crisis has to do with sound/music experience?
Simple...
Sound/music experience is a spirit/body perceptive event related to some conditions and material factors in the world: a room and an audio system....
Half of this correlation, the gear, is presented as the main causing factor excluding the main participating factor : our body location in a room acoustically controlled... Like in the health crisis, some factors ,the gear, are presented by most reviewers to be the more important one and the other, the room acoustic , presented as secondary or inexistant (first treatment versus mass vaccination )... Here is the lie behind the mass market audio conditioning of the mass or big pharma control....All factors are important, all of them, not only the chosen one only by the power behind the curtail .... Gear+room and group at risk focussed Vaccination+ first treatment... Mandated mass vaccination for ALL is a destruction of health and freedom...Gear system sold in audio magazine to be the main factor of sound experience is a destruction of our musical and acoustical awareness... If one of these two factors is lacking or ERASED, or underscore completely and systematically it is because there is a LIE.....
« By his precise distance from truth, an error point rigorously toward truth after analysis; but an half truth, with a lie by omission hidden in it, veil the truth completely»-Anonymus Statistician
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Nietszche is right, owning something weigh on us, and without strong spirit someone is at risk to be crush spiritually by his own possession... But here N. reveal his own christianity, he repeated what Jesus simply reminded us, many centuries before him, by speaking about the joyful and free poor and the infelicitous rich... And Klaus Schwab when claiming that tomorrow "people will own nothing and be happy" did not give us here a christian recipe to become man of spirit but seriously propose the erasing of freedom itself in a global totalitarian move... The actual crisis is not about health, and not even about money, after all money is only a printable paper sheet and no more a contract back by something with a real value... The actual crisis is not at all about health or money, save for sleepwalking people, it is about control and freedom...All the last 2 years reveal it clearly to everyone... We must be free to own and free to give up and free to keep...No one can say to us that we will no more be free to own anything and we will be happy.... The essence of spirit is freedom and love....These three words revealing from three vantage points the only one truth.... |
It’s all too easy to call these experimental injections vaccines. I often fall into that trap myself by force of habit. However since they neither immunize or vaccinate it’s a claim a little too far fetched. I’ve noticed although our own beleaguered PM (Boris Johnson) has suddenly switched the emphasis from "vaccinated" to "helps lessen the symptoms", he still often calls them vaccines. Right now he seems to have quite a bit on his plate, most likely courtesy of his one time ally, Dominic Cummings. Interesting times indeed.
It is an economical power war not an health war.... It is about the end of freedom like in China... That is the matter...
Well it has to be this way when you’re running out of non nuclear armed opposition. Most current wars are economic or psychological. Can’t see that changing anytime soon. This is where the realm of the subconscious becomes so important. In particular, how to influence, shape and control it. I wouldn’t like to guess what the marketing budgets of big pharma et al is these days, but I do know that most of the research into unconscious consumer behaviour is funded by them. No doubt they’d call it R&D. What’s a few trillion dollars here and there? |
We define ourselves ( and our level ) by our possessions.( and possesions of others ) Marketing industries play with that. It is driven by the subconscious . Put these in geopardy and the subconscious surfaces . You can loose everything. But you can’t loose your education. But with sociaty , we define ourself by the level of enviability ( privileges )that we represent. King Crimson Except for my audio systeme ! |
Interesting video. It reminds me a old science fiction movie . The Forbiden Planet. Don’t laught . In this movie , Dr Mobius connected his brain to a device that grows his intelligence many time . He is then connected to an extreme powerfull machine . What he doesn’t know is that his subconcious is also linked to this machine. So even the greatest intellectual habilities , are not able to tame the ´´ ID ´´ , the primitive subconscious drives. And the more power , this intelligence masters , the more deadly is the outcome for the society .
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My wife has all that so what? She is free and did no study of their own BEFORE taking these...After she take the vaxx i read for the last 6 months about MRNA "vaccines" before making my opinion... The matter on this crisis is not about vaccines at all... If you dont understand that you cannot understand this crisis... It is an economical power war not an health war.... It is about the end of freedom like in China... That is the matter... Focusing on who are vaccinated and who are not is only mass hysteria... And debating about vaxx will take this thread down... FREEDOM is the matter.... |
Vaccinated or not... It is not the matter... The matter is FREEDOM...and DEMOCACY.... And SCIENCE... Pfizer or Moderna has nothing to do with science... It has nothing to do even with sound technology... Pfizer is a financial controlled company...This is the matter... If you think otherwise i am sorry for you my friend...Read the criminal past fines history...Read their actual "transparent" description of their product totally untested content on animals or humans...Read how their vaccines save them from bankrupcy...Read about who are the people who OWN these companies... I apologize another time to my past rude answers to you.... i am too sad about humanity to have grudges against anyone... |
If you think this last video analysis apply only to Soviet era or Nazism era and not to America right now you are deluded... I cannot go out free on most commercial places right now in Quebec... Why? Because of sound scientific reasons? 😁😊 Awake yourself, read about science, acoustic,and spirituality, and quit politic and marketing programming... Some others read Nietszche in their own "psychopathological" way and have decided for themselves that men are not mature enough to own anything....They say that tomorrow " we will own nothing and be happy".... This tomorow is now... Be free....
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«The heart is a tree which dynamic flow is the possible optimized path between memory and imagination from joy to a greater joy»-Anonymus Smith «The sound "in" my brain/heart/body is a translated fractal of the sound in my room»- anonymus acoustician «A fractal is the seed of a tree between dimensions»-Anonymus Smith «The heart is a fractal between sensible and surprasensible dimension»-Anonymus smith «We must remember the future to really sing the song»-Anonymus Poet |
Memory is not so simple... Memory cannot be separated from the imaginative creative power ( i dont speak about fiction or fantasy mainly here) Memory cannot be separated from the BODY and not only from the brain...There is heart in the body, what we call feelings... Then when we remember some past event, this event is recreated, not so much recalled as it was once... BUT this recreation is guided and formed by the root and fruit of the tree of memory : feelings which are lived and re-lived in the body/heart and not only comes from the brain, anyway the brain contains the body living image and the body contains the brain because there is neurons everywhere...The brain and the body are not static OBJECTS they are interpenetrating DYNAMICAL flows... Then when i remember the same piece of music i listen now as 45 years ago , i cannot remember the SOUND quality of this precise moment in the past....But i can recall my feeling around this perceptive moment....And compared it to the feeling of the same SOUND through my actual audio system....In some case where the feeling was very strong it is possible to recreate/recall it with his association with a sound quality coming from the past and compared to the present... I know why my actual system is better than my friend system from 45 years ago when i listened with my gut feeling of the sound not because i can recall the exact memory of the sound but because i can compared the emotions i LEARNED to associate with sound at this past time till today... We dont remember ,we recreate the past with the most powerful perceptive organ : the heart...The heart is so powerful because for it, past and future MUST always cross anew together....The heart is the crossing point between the brain dynamic and the body dynamic flows... In a word we dont remember past sound we recreate them as they once were for our feelings and with our feelings...
«The Brain is to the past, what the body is to the future, and the heart to the present»-Anonymus Smith « If we can erase the universe this hand is drawing now with the other hand, we cannot erase the love who guide them two»-Anonymus Smith «The heart is the only one teacher to the brain who forgot too much and to the body who imagine too much»-Anonymus Smith «The heart is the door and the key»-Anonymus Smith «The heart is at the same time the map and the territory»-Anonymus Smith «If the brain is an inference engine and the body an antenna, the heart is the emitter and the receiver»-Anonymus Smith |
I like to remember Nietzsche's description of the world's happiest creature: the cow in her pasture, chewing her cud, totally devoid of any lasting memories. Our memory of auditory experiences is notoriously poor and may partially explain a tendency to feel satisfaction with the current state of our systems--since we can't really remember the sound of our system in any of its earlier configurations. True test for tube rollers! |
Aside from the validity of the points of manifested here, I am most impressed by the positive tone and humble yet brash investigation being made to uncover what is closest to the truth. Also the carefully weighed use of the language is commendable. Such environment is refreshing, soothing and ever harder to find these days. Thank you from Rapallo (Italia) |
@mahgister you're a class act for this and i do always enjoy reading your stuff on here. be well 🍻 |
You are right and wiser than me .... Humor is necessary...I misread your post... I apologize and sincerely wish you the best and thank you for reminding me to be less serious...
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@mahgister please relax. i simply choose to keep it light and silly when i go to the hifi forum and leave the high effort philosophy posts to others. the fundamental absurdity of this hobby and "gear acquisition syndrome" is obvious to me, but i still enjoy it. like everyone else here. |
Perhaps if you concentrate your mind a little bit more, reading the Nietszche quote meaning in the OP thread introduction , you would have understood already that no "material object" could save us from madness... especially collective insane madness like it is now... Reading is not deciphering the syllabes, it is a new world of meaning experience....Try it...
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Pure musical experience cannot be reduced to acoustic and psycho-acoustic experience... But there is a rightful way to do it though, and we can assert that in some perspective, we could try to submit music experience to science...If we respect the irreducible quality of music experience when we study it... In the same way EVIL cannot be a study matter for science, because for many materialist scientist qualities dont exist "per se" they are secondary illusions, like music experience which is a lived quality which can be put aside at the end as secondary... Evil is not even recognized by science save in psychiatric science only few decades ago: psychopathology... From all corners of social activities we are conditioned to take for real what is measurable technically speaking...All the rest did not count much... All the rest go with the baby in the muddied waters... Nietszche wrote his quote at the supreme moment where materialism was ascending to his peak, at this time man was owning a "soul" again, and REMEMBERED IT, even if his soul was at risk to be lost ... We live after materialism , in the age of a technological religion, where there is no more "soul" or anything to be lost... People are conditioned to listen to their idols who speak to them directly by the miracle of technology : computer, virtual reality,cars, audio system,.... People own their idols and gods and they are like slaves praying to their perfectly designed slaves-idols... The crisis in audio reflect perfectly the world crisis...Educated mass ignorance at the service of corporations small or big...
Knowledge is reduced to science and at the end science is reduced to only technology... Nietszche quote seems even a "naive" statement by a romantic deluded too religious man... But i am optimist: the actual world crisis is the defining moment in all human history... I know than men will awake in a way or in another way....Death dont exist only corpses exist... I will now go listen to some therapeutic music in my dedicated room, waiting to be imprisoned perhaps or waiting to pay for a fine in money because i am not vaccinated in this Canadian sleepwalking country... I live in Orwellian age...I never think young that Orwell could be a prophet like Blake was or biblical prophets...I was naive and i thought that democracy will reign supreme here forever over "communists"evil....I was very deluded....I read too much books at a young age not paying any attention to the world TILL NOW... Nietszche was right only the man who already own a spirit can own even books without undermining himself at the end... What is spirit? It is freedom.... Freedom is the seed, the root, the fruit and the flower of spirit in pure love....
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You are right if we speak about a diversity which is only a mass of external additons of "objects" or posts taken without any intent linking them all...... I dont think that this is the case in point for this thread wisely created by the OP... Then you own post is an evidently true "idealized" assertion itself... i apologize to you for my remark.... I know you are a trustfull thinking person... In the opposite twoleftears always post short negative posts ...
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Thanks to you two for your posts...
My experience too, and part of the powerful moving experience of being young and free...
Wise!
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I spent two days doing the annual maintenance on my mower and my off-road side by side. Yes, I could have done both in a day but I paced myself. Neither is difficult but they take a lot of time. I think youth with only a few dollars in my pocket is better than aged with lots of things. But I would have never known that without growing old. |
“The knowledge of all things is possible” Think about what this really means? Here Leonardo dont speak about knowledge as quantitative or separate qualitative "information"... He speak about the lived perceptive feeling experience ... What i called in my post above "the music of the spheres"..
“Principles for the Development of a Complete Mind: Study the science of art. Study the art of science. Develop your senses- especially learn how to see. Realize that everything connects to everything else.” No comment here is necessary...Save for many contemporary lost minds but i lack the necessary space to explain it...
“One has no right to love or hate anything if one has not acquired a thorough knowledge of its nature. Great love springs from great knowledge of the beloved object, and if you know it but little you will be able to love it only a little or not at all.” This one is deeper that what we may think at first read....
“The painter has the Universe in his mind and hands.” The musician and the listener of music also has the universe in his body/brain/soul/heart
“An average human looks without seeing, listens without hearing, touches without feeling, eats without tasting, moves without physical awareness, inhales without awareness of odour or fragrance, and talks without thinking.” Alas! there will be no comment possible here....A part of ourself is always this average human... Awake the other part...
“Where the spirit does not work with the hand, there is no art.” This one is very important one...Where there is listening only with the ears and not with the heart, there is no music either...
“Learning is the only thing the mind never exhausts, never fears, and never regrets.” For Leonardo love is learning and learning impossible without love....
“Why does the eye see more clearly when asleep than the imagination when awake?” It seems the attention focus is reversed in dreams, the peripheral command the center and the center here reflect the whole and we see more clearly that in our daydream imaginations, because when "awake" the center hide the peripheral source most of the times... We are "awake" it seems but hypnotized by the foci and only sleepwalkers..
“Details make perfection, and perfection is not a detail.” The parts participate to the whole, the whole is the "aura" of the part, not the part..
“Truth at last cannot be hidden. Dissimulation is of no avail. Dissimulation is to no purpose before so great a judge. Falsehood puts on a mask. Nothing is hidden under the sun.” How true it is in the actual worldwide crisis but :
“There are three classes of people: those who see. Those who see when they are shown. Those who do not see.”
this last one: “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.
« The waters at the origin were separated by sound» -Anonymus Smith
« All these gibberish posts of yours are for ? Let me guess: to push acoustic control science against consumers gear upgrade... Then why not being more economical?»-Gummo Marx «Because with spirit, unlike money when you throw it, you reap more brother»- Groucho Marx 🤓 |
Now a clue about "spirit" perception and consumerism....
The spirit for me integrate all the universe without being part of the universe... How do i feel it ? Listening music/sound unity, without bothering anymore with the gear, i must listen to my own body/brain/soul, how? By hearing with the moving parts of the music the "moving" reactive parts of my body/brain/ soul through the HEART movement and the respiration cycles... Then i could become conscious of the way music affect me and this new sensibility will introduce me through this musical meditation to the influence of the solar system action in my own body/soul/heart movement... I will sense something that manifect to me and did not come from the music powerful moves but affect it by the diurnal cycle and even by the way the successions of days and weeks change my moods and body.... read this article and think... it will be a beginning for perceiving astronomy in your body.... What Kepler called with the pythagorean tradition the "music of the sphere" is way much than only a Platonician desincarnated metaphorical idea....It is a living experience.. And music is not the sound coming from the gear you just upgrade to, it is a a moving movement of you body/brain/heart, which could become a new organ of perception for the spirit of the universe... If not, Nietszche observation will damn those who listen to their material possessions instead of the "spirit".... Schopenhauer describe this universal will and called it "spirit"...
https://academic.oup.com/jxb/advance-article/doi/10.1093/jxb/erab462/6417250
«My wife read astrologers and now she think his own will is no more only his »-Groucho Marx 🤓
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