Primare/ Vincent Adio /NAD /Rogue/ AVA /Hegel...- need a simple and reliable integrated

@stanleylocke I missed it, what was it?

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/818177427186815

@drmusic that is a nice integrated amplifier.  Tube preamp and solid state amp side is a great idea.  

thanks @russ69 it's on top of my list

It's hard to beat the Rogue Sphinx V3 with Gold Lyon tubes, even with separate components. It is that good.

thanks @rbull11 it's one of the easiest ones to try and I probably will (e.g. BestBuy)

Take a look at the Rotel, A12 is 60WPC and A14 is 80WPC, Used you can pick up in your price range. ( from $400 to $700 ) I have an A12 that I’ve enjoyed for a few years until I upgraded to the Micromega M-100. I now have it in my 3rd system feeding vintage Advent 5012’s which I use sparingly but I still enjoy. They are quality made products at a reasonable price.

long story short, as much as the AVA seemed the best deal, the lack of pre-amp removed it from my list. The next steps are a process of elimination

Rogue, Simaudio, Primare and Hegel have met my criteria and received a lof of positive feedback. Rogue and Primare have newer items in my price range, Hegel does not and Simaudio models are 20 year old for this price vs the 2-5 years Rogue and Primare model's age. I just have to figure out how and where to listen to these before pulling the trigger. 

@bgross

The Heed website is while very slick unusable for me. That's a hard start to get excited about a product (and my expectations for an audio web site are low).

@2psyop 

I wish I could listen to all these amps at dealers. I wouldn't take a dealers time though unless I know I would buy the product if I liked it. (Ideally they would lend it for a home trial but they don't and I don't blame them.) 

If they carried at least 3 brands on my list, I might try it. Unfortunately many of these are direct sales. Yet, it's a good idea, thank you!

There is one dealer in a 100 miles that would actually "be there" for me, and two others - one wouldn't lift a finger for a customer like me and the other one would just pitch whatever he wanted to get rid of, these old-timers can be unique characters.

I know this sounds a little counter productive but given all the recommendations you have received, if I were in your shoes I would begin to make a list of retail stores that carry the brands on my short list. I would find a city or town within driving distance… whereby I could listen to a few or even a couple of my choices, that would be ideal. I would call ahead to these dealers and setup listening sessions with my media, my familiar music. I say that because my money has always been tight and once upon a time I thought I liked a brand and bought several components that turned out bad, very bad by shopping online and through forum research. I ended up losing more money than my pride allows me to say. I should have taken the time to really research and listen to brands, get more info from dealers and ultimately make a better choice. It’s unfortunate that much of the dealer’s experience and knowledge gets lost in the mix. I am not saying you should buy from them but in my experience of owing used and new gear, often listening first has been the most revealing factor in making my decision.

Might also want to look out for a pre-owned, Heed Elixir. You can find something wothwile for $800-ish. Be patient

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1189331865648647

Looking at the CA-1 ad again, look at the history. A second CA-1 he's selling seems odd. 

@adrmi sent you a note

@drmusic I have zero reasons not to buy this. Other than I am waiting if my offer was accepted for a Sim I-5.

@agwca I am sold on Sim or Rogue or Ava. I just don't see how Hegel or Primare could have any advantages, they might be just as good but not better. If I streamed, it would be a different story. 

Pre-out, Remote, SS or hyrbid, I could even see the Billie, but that's too expensive. I am pleased to say, I'd be fine with any of these mostly entry level integrated amps (that cost less many of the cables discussed here )

Just saw the CA-1 too.  Although the rave reviews, not having pre-outs is an issue, not a large one though. Its getting rave reviews but there's alot out there. I was tempted but the Keces is really good. Even if the CA-1 is better and more powerful as it was stated to sound better than a Exposure amp and someone stated it had better tonality than a hegel, its still opinion and they all play in a similar league, perhaps small differences here and there but that's what some of us pick up.

as to the Keces E40, I bought it from readings a SOundnews review, and I was looking for a small form factor amp. It's built well, sounds great and is sufficient for my needs.  There are two RCA inputs open for a source as well as a mm input (which I do not use) and a usb basic input for desktop uo to CD quality.  It also has variable pre outs which works well enough for me. 

Power Holdings Audio in NJ has them and while Arthur may no longer be the distributor, he can order them. The 1st one I bought from him on sale Black Friday.  He does from time to time sell demo units for around 20% off or so.  These are setup for US/Canada voltage whether 110 or 115 or 120 not sure.  There are overseas distributors/sellers in Europe and the East.  Alot of written reviews.

Measured to put out 61/75 watts 2 channel at 1K Hz but another site measured 34/61 watts 8/4 ohms probably along the lines of 20hz to 20Khz but not specifically stated. Some sites sell it as 50 watts, a few 40 watts.  On my Dali Opticon 1s I usually listen at 10pm to 12:30pm position on the dial. 

Take your time unless you want to jump on the CA-1.  can't go wrong there as to SQ per what others state.  A Hegel can be gotten used for reasonable.  Galion is raising interests but they are new.  There's a bunch of others as well but I can't comment on much more as I don't have any experience with those.  Alot with small speakers.

Hope it helps.  That CA-1 does look sweet though.  Ask if transferable warranty if you do. Still a nice form factor...but no preouts.  I think SVS sells some kind of kit regarding these kind of amps to bettter connect with a sub.

This fits all of your criteria.  Full disclosure; it is my ad

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650136162-rogue-audio-sphinx-v2-tube-hybrid-integrated-amplifier-in-black/

Cheers,

Mark

@tkrtrb125 still above my current budget but it's a great deal, thank you! My only concern with AVA is the lack of pre out. 

Scoop this up and be done!

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650137363-audio-by-van-alstine-ca-1-control-amplifier/?utm_source=featured_ad&utm_medium=web&utm_content=front&utm_campaign=front-featured-ad-click&utm_term=650137363

@agwca The Keces look great. Very reasonably priced too. I don't see a US distributor though. I wonder if they have a 110v version

I use both a Hegel h160 and a small Keces E40.  For my speakers the Hegel is definitely overkill. The biggest difference I hear between these 2 amps are on my Dali speakers.  The voices have a bit more pop and sometimes glare in movie soundtracks where I think sound is processed differently than music, perhaps better resolution and the piano strikes a bit more livliness, adding to the weight and speed of notes whereas the Keces rounds the sharpness, it's smooth, warmer side of neutral by a hair and adds bass heft, enough speed and texture that alot of inexpensive amps do not.  It shows in the damping factor measured from a site I found.  The hegel is the better amp by power, specs, etc., but the little Keces E40 does not fall far behind in SQ in my systems.

Enough so that I may sell the Hegel h160 in the coming weeks as I do not plan on upgrading my speakers at this time.  I wanted mini systems that perform and I now have 2 Keces E40s using decent under a grand dacs.  The 2 systems offer a bit of a different flavor, using Dali and Triangle speakers.  Even if I upgrade my speakers, they will still be small standmounts such as Closer OGY or a few other small ones which the Keces should still drive well.  

Can't say enough good things about the little amp and prefer it over Rega and a few others in its category I have heard but there are alot of decent and reasonably priced amps out there.  The Van Alstine CA/NP amps are getting attention , there's Galion, among some others that should hold value over time.  But if you find a used Keces for cheap, grab one.  Even at retail I think its worth it.  Looking at the power and caps you wouldn't think it could sound this good.  Just stay at or above 4 ohms.  Going below that I think produces too much heat. Hard to drive low sensitivity speakers won't get loud.  But it will drive them within its power band.

FWIW.

@gano Cheers and Happy hunting.  This is honestly the best time since the excitement and anticipation is almost priceless.  Don’t keep us hanging and let us know what you decide on!

thanks @pangeek! I am an impulsive buyer but my budget keeps me careful .I am sure some day I will grow up to appreciate tubes like the PrimaLuna :)

thanks @2psyop I am a fan of tube preamp with SS amp.combo, some day  

I would advise to audition the amps you’re interested in.  If from a local seller, try to go to their place and listen there.  I know synergy and space along with equipment is different but at least you checked it out.  Also keep in mind to be ready to leave and not purchase.  This is the hardest part.  Time and control.  Happy hunting.  
oh and the Prologue Premium from PrimaLuna has a remote.  Cheers

I have a Musical Fidelity M6500i integrated amp and a Rogue Atlas Magnum III. The first is a solid state beast but yet very refined, the second is a tube integrated that is clear and warm. I really like both. Very well built and quiet. I can’t speak about the other brands.

thanks @chrshanl37 that very much matches my wish list - what the Primare does. I don't think I will be able to try 15 amps but 2 or 3 would be a good start :)

I can only speak on the I30 and it is one of my favorite amps. I too listen to a lot of old rock, punk, blues, jazz and lo fi indie. The I30 has a really lush warm sound that makes even poor recordings sound fantastic. It sounds much bigger and more powerful than a lot of other amps I’ve owned. During covid I got on an integrated amp kick and must of tried 10-15 amps in the 1-2k price range. I think I paid about $350 for it from a seller on another audio site because it had a wonky input selector. At the time I had a Kinki Studio and the Sim I3.3. I preferred it over the Kinki and was right up there with the Simaudio. The sound is very similar to my much more expensive Audia Flight. For the price a used Primare is a heck of deal. I gave mine to my daughter. Hegel is another great suggestion but as you said, it’s price prohibitive as is Simaudio unless you can get lucky and find an I5.

Best of luck, looking forward to hearing about your decision.

@chrshanl37 your experience may be key to my decision, you had Hegel and Primare too. Hegel used is still expensive, what did you like about the Primare that stood out?

Within the 1k-1.5k price range i’ve owned a Yamaha A S2100 and RN 803, Vincent sv236 mkll, 237mk, and the sv 236 as well as Hegel H160, Primare I30, Sim i3.3, I5 and a few others I probably forgot about.  For your speakers and musical taste I’d opt for an older Primare, you might find an I20 or I30 in or around your budget. 

@freediver It looks like a sweet deal. If I had $1500 (which I may just wait to save up) I would choose between the Simaudio,

AVA and Rogue.

The Hegel and the NAD C 3050 are also attractive amps but I prefer less features and power in general and digital stuff and I see fewer compelling reasons to pursue those. 

The Denon PMA-1600NE and the Rotel A11 have been sitting in my  online shopping for a couple days now, I probably couldn't go wrong with either of them, aside from my mental defect that I need an "audiophile" amp. 

Thank you all for the awesome feedback!

@irjones Which speakers and equipment are you running with your 701 that has left you disappointed?

Here is where my $ would go..
I have a 240i in my bedroom system,NOTHING you can buy at this asking price will outperform it,NOTHING!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/126623689089?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=k5q7dJWAT_W&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=ahWvhnQsSf-&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

@irjones I agree but I am also worried I can be just as disappointed in a $2000 amp than in a $500 one, it's a risky game. My only safety would be if I can try it first. When I buy used, I have to call it final, as re-selling would come at a loss.

On the plus side my budget is modest enough that I am not rolling the dice with 1000s just 100s.

HI, I purchased the YAMAHA a-s 701, on a tight budget. And I am truly sorry. Wait until you have saved up for something that will please you for years, not leave you contiually searching for it's replacement.

The guys here are really helpfull, and are all genuine.

Good luck.

IAN.

@mdalton with the CAD-USD rate, if it's in top condition, it's a fair price. 

@mbmi  I do not know* how to get in touch with Belles or any listed nearby dealers. That's a very outdated list. I highly value his work but he doesn't seem to care about selling. 

* I mean I do know, I message them many times, zero response. 

$1550...A really MUSICAL Integrated.....BELLES ARIA  70 w per.

@mesch 

Yes, though couple points.  $1000 20+ years ago is $1800 in today’s dollars, and $750 Canadian is $573 U.S.  I agree though that if OP interested he might want to offer less.  I still have my old Complete, though it’s boxed and in storage now - I’d offer it to the OP but it has a crackly sound in left channel when adjusting volume; would require service.  Re OP question re detail, I would think it would be a nice match for the Klipsch.  I originally paired mine with JMLabs Cobalt 816 speakers, which lean towards analytical.  The combo was nicely balanced.

@mashif It's hard to beat the Rotel. I am close to pulling the trigger on Crutchfield. Or Denon PMA-1600NE on Amazon. They are both handsome and similar specs.

@mesch Yes, the SET 120 is another good one, I am just too hyped up about the C2 it got such great reviews.

I agree that if you can increase your budget to the $1500 point better options become available. If I was looking for a SS integrated at that price point I would be looking at AVA . Their Control amplifier is now the C1, and was the SET 120 . They have a used SET 120 that is a little over 1 year old for sale listed on their website. 

Best of luck in your search.

One feature of the Rotel line is the remote. It controls everything including tone controls. If you use them, you can adjust settings from your listening position. I believe they also have Bluetooth is you want to audition something from an online source. 

@mdalton it looks like a quality amp, I will put it on my list

One thing that would be nice is a remote - for the volume. I used to have an integrated with a remote and it makes a difference, for small adjustment I wouldn’t get up.

@pangeek I have heard the Primaluna and once seller even wanted to throw it into the deal for Monitor Audio speakers. It seems to be a very popular choice. As shallow as it sounds, it looks bulky to me. But if the sound was magical, I would definitely consider it.

$1500 is the magic pricepoint. new AVA C2, new Rotels, used Primares, used Hegels, a lot of good deals. I might get there someday, I am posting a lot of vintage items that I have a hard time parting with. It could be 5 months to a year, I can wait....

@mesch thanks for the feedback on Audio Refinement, was it detailed "enough" yet warm? Again, I don’t have the most discerning ears. My test for details is ELO that can easily fail to lay out the Orchestra’s instruments (let alone Liszt - I will never have a system that reproduces the nuances correctly)

Generally I find audiomart and tmr more reasonably priced (sellers don’t have to make up for the fees) but I am looking everywhere

Check out the SS integrateds for sale here on ag.  Use the 'price low to high' function.  

While I have had experience with the Audio Refinement Complete integrated amplifier  and thought it a wonderful unit, I believe the asking price on the one mentioned above is too high. This amp sold  new for ~$1000  about 20 years ago.

@gano 

I know you said no tube integrated amps due to the need  to simplify maintenance.  However you want warmth, I suggest (and this is what I have done as well a few years ago) is not make a purchase now but save up until you can afford around $1500.  I would then get a Primaluna Prologue Premium (preowned).   They are very very reliable, sound great and easy to maintain.  On EL34 power tubes they give you 35w of tube warmth with great bass and clarity, is able to drive most speakers.  Your klipsch will be very easy and I think would sound amazing with the Primaluna.  And then eventually you can tweak the sound to your liking by doing the center 12au7 tubes.  It’s a component I feel you won’t easily outgrow and in the Looks Department, how could glowing tubes not be inviting and beautiful.  
I did the leap into the Primaluna Prologue One after messing around with different amps, Mac 1900 Receiver, Dynaco, ADCOM and etc.   It’s best decision I made since I went back into tubes but have reliability with it.  

Here is a review of the Prologue One that’s an inter read and testament on how long they last with no frills and drama.  
 

https://www.tonepublications.com/old-school/the-primaluna-prologue-one-integrated/

IMHO and  Just my 2 cents as well.  
 

cheers 

John

Audio Refinement Complete - a little old now, but definitely on warm side, and beautiful aesthetic. 

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/details/650131494-yba-audio-refinement-complete/

Rogue - for all the reasons mentioned above!   

thanks @2psyop I like Rogue on paper, haven't heard it yet. Your system(s) is amazing!

I have a Rogue Atlas Magnum III and it’s truly exceptional as an integrated tube amp. So will jump on the Rogue bandwagon, as I think all of their products are very good and the service and parts (should you need this down the road) is in PA.