Reasonable high end interconnects: without breaking the bank
I am in the process of updating my audio equipment and have realized my interconnects are probably not up to snuff; I use the ones provided by the manufacturers. My current set up includes a Leben cs600 amplifier, California audio lab Icon Mark II CD player, Linn Akurate Streamer, Feikert Volare Table and Spendor SP1 speakers ( in final stages of upgrade to either Audio Note E, Devore O93 or Joseph Profile). I have been investigating interconnects and have a bit of sticker shock. So any suggestions on interconnects that won't bankrupt me? Is silver truly preferable to copper with respect to resolution and detail? Thanks MP
A recent AQ audio left me severely nonplussed. System was all McIntosh driving Bi-Wired B&W 800 D3. Generally excellent, with all AQ cables.
Switching the speaker cable to a higher priced $12k vs $6k destroyed the balance. Vocals became boxy.
Restoring the speaker cable and replacing the DAC/pre cable with one @ 2x $ made the system unlistenable. The top end became aggressive and phase coherence destroyed. Silky cymbals became clangy with edgy harmonics. Grand piano sounded like 3 separate instruments.
A perfect demo that price means nothing and cables must mate to the system.
I am a big fan of Kimber Kable. They are well made. I like them enough that I use their wire inside my speakers and could not be happier with the quality of their products and customer service. They have a strong price/performance ratio and are my first choice.
+4 for elizabeth, very good advise given, for the Ops question of silver vs copper again I'm with elizabeth. Spend an extravagant amount assembling silver loom (used) only to be disappointed. Back to copper. I do firmly believe that cables are system dependent and one size does not fit all. Price does not guarantee better. For example I had Transparent Ultra SCS at multi multi Benjamins only to be never wowed at all, boring, then bought some Tara labs (used) and cheap and was blown away. They are still in the system. I found Blue jeans cable very good for providing a base line and are a very acceptable cable in all configurations. Not plugging BJC as none remain connected but they did their duty well and provided great comparison opportunity. I see a lot of plugs for specific brands and that's a good opinion but it's opinion of their system which differs from your system. Get a affordable baseline first before wasting $$$ trying to get YOUR sound via cable swapping. JMO!
That was partially the intent. Some folk use objectivity as a fall back position, a crutch to use when they don't have a good or valid point with which to counter something that makes sense, like, "I hear what I hear."
The only other option is to employ ad hominen attacks questioning the person's sanity, gullibility, or ability to hear well enough. It's not quite a straw man argument and more like a mott-batte (spelling?) technique where you waylay an argument with something akin to what you're talking about but not related to the actual discussion. From there, one can redirect the discussion to a more defensible position, which at first blush, makes sense, but in actuality, has nothing to do with the topic.
Since when are we minimizing or discounting empirical evidence? What we see, what we hear are cornerstones of the scientific method. We observe with our senses. Hel-loo!
We observe with our senses.
True. Perhaps these discussions should should end quickly with the
"agree to disagree" reasoning. I am guilty of this. Thinking about the passion we have for the hobby, we are much more alike than not. Dave
I use a lot of Ernst&Engbring microphone cable in my audio systems. Neutral no-nonsens cables at a reasonable price. I haven't compared it to cables in the $1000/m range but so far they have outperformed all other cables that I have tried.
They BTW comes as standard with Neumann microphones and Rupert Neve uses it a lot too.
It's a 3-lead cable so for unbalanced connections it's recommended to use one of the leads as shield return. In this configuration I have used it for unbalanced signals up to about 20m without a hint of any problems.
If it should be regarded as a high-end cable can of course be discussed as it is a professional product aimed primarily at the recording industry but you might already have 25m of this cable in your signal path without knowing it. That is, if the recording was made in a Rupert Neve designed recording studio with his mixing console and a Neumann U47 as the vocal mike.
Even if one likes to spend more money on primary cables in a system it is an excellent cable to use with tape decks, FM-tuners and other such sources. It comes highly recommended!
mpomerantz, I was the sole proprietor of a mid-fi to high end shop from 1986-1993, sold more than a dozen brands of cables, with the most expensive being MIT if I recall correctly. Was also a Spendor dealer, and we should have sold a lot more SP1's than we did. Nice speakers, to this day. Yes wires make a difference, but to those of us on a beer budget... buy beer budget cables. don't get me wrong, I sold a good bit of audio equipment to those that made 10, 100, probably even a few making 1000 times more than I did peddling hifi. I HEARD the difference that MIT-750 shotgun cables made in certain systems. As for what I used at home in my own system? Much less expensive stuff. I bought a bunch of Mogami neglex 2534 mic cable that came out of a decommissioned recording studio a few years ago, and have made up a lot of interconnects for myself, friends & customers using quality connectors when I have had the time to do so. They are not invisible, they are not perfectly transparent, but they are pretty translucent, and sound 100 times better than those "free interconnects" included in the box with stuff, and with some components sound as good as, or better than $500 retail interconnects. Depending on the connectors, I sell them as low as $25 a pair for a half meter. Its all relative. There is a lot of snake oil sales in high end audio, always has been, always will be. But if YOU hear a big difference between spending $100 and $5000 in interconnects and you can afford it and that makes you happy? fine bidnez.
Don't even get me started on speaker cables, or internal wiring!
Mogami 2791 with Neutrik XLR. Best bang for the buck imho and what I'm using in my system and will use until I will have the cash to buy a full loom of Nordost Tyr or Valhalla.
When I got back into this hobby about two years ago I started with the highest end Monoprice coaxials as my interconnects and SPDIFS. They are dirt cheap and did the initial job ok. I think for budget minded folks, I can say that Zu Audio on eBay is a good choice. I have picked up some of them and have been please. Same with Surf Cables. I have also obtained other cables in the used audiophile markets, particularly Cardas and Shunyata. I think as a reliable baseline and source of cables Zu Audio is a good choice. The only thing is you will have to follow and win a bunch of auctions to get your stock together.
I demoed a number of cables from The Cable Company Library. I would strongly suggest doing this. I ended up with the Cardas Clear Reflection but tried out 5 other cables ranging in price from about $1000 to $3000. I was surprised at the result because the Cardas wasn't even a consideration initially but was suggested by the sales rep I was talking to. In the end there are differences and you probably have some preferences to what is important to you in listening. For me the Cardas was the best mix of everything I liked but cables are system dependent so there is obviously not one good answer. Also, I would definitely suggest going XLR if you have that option with your equipment. As to $15 cables vs. $1500 cables, it depends on you and your system. Some systems can resolve better then others. Some people can tell the difference between a Steinway and a Burgdorfer piano on a recording, some can't or don't care. What I have found in a good high end system set up correctly is a difference in the things that are more nuanced than just bass, loudness and clarity, things like sound stage, timbre, tonal balance-for me the $15 cables just don't do it. In the end, what I enjoy is that on a good recording, my listening room really does disappear and becomes a different sonic space and vocals and instruments are palpable.
There are a lot of great suggestions here. The Cable Co. Library is a good resource as well. One suggestion I will make that I have not seen mentioned is THALES. Designed by Swiss watchmakers who meticulously craft the this cable to be the
ultimate connector.
Although they are probably more expensive than you originally expected to spend, these cables will out perform cables that cost 3 to 4x their MRSP price.
These cables essentially disappear into the sound system. They accurately reveal a rich, musical, transparent, enormously detailed sound stage that is all together silent.
They could very well be the last Cables you ever invest in.
If name dropping helps - IMHO preferred them over these companies in descending order - $$$$ Stage 3 Concepts
$$$$ Transparent
$$$ Analysis Plus
$$$$ Synergistic Research
$$$$ Nordost $$$ Kimber
$$$$ MIT $$ Audioquest
For ultimate flexibility in choices (i.e., custom-made), try Douglasconnection.com . Doug has various grades of raw cable to choose from, including Canare, Mogami, Furez, Furutech. Same with connectors, including ETI, Vampire Wire, Furutech, etc. Of course you can choose your own custom length. There is detailed information about each product on his website, so you really know what you're getting.
I went the DIY route with his products, to save a few dollars, and because I like to tinker. You can give Doug your budget and your specs, and he will come back with various options/combinations for you to select from. I've done RCA and XLR interconnects from him, as well as power cables. He also has digital coax and speaker cables. Doug is a great guy to work with, and you really can't go wrong with any of his product offerings.
Darwin cables did it for me. Haven't given a thought about cables since I changed over to them Yes, check their deals on their website. Highly recommended
I can also recommend Audio Sensibilty. I have two of his top power cords the Signature and they are really good with a full and smooth sound across the whole frequency spectrum. I read a revue of his top speaker cable and it is supposed to be just killer. I would bet that his interconnects are awfully good too. Stephen the owner is also a super nice guy to deal with and he offers 30 day free trial period! Teo audio also has excellent interconnects and I would say even their least expensive model can compete with those from other manufacturers that are much more costly. I actually use Teo Double Double Ultra which is a fantastic high end cable using the Schroeder Method, there is the thread here in the cable forum covering it, that is a wonderful cable that I probably wouldn't replace for a long time. Taras and Ken at Teo are very nice and knowledgable guys....I believe they still offer 30 day trial period too.
I will add my vote for signalcable.com. Very reasonable, made to spec, in-home trials. Impossible to go wrong. I added his top end power cable to my B&W 800ASW and the improvement was instantaneous and dramatic. And as to the other question, yes, silver matters, at least to my ears. Linn blacks are a fine budget IC, but Linn silvers sound ethereal.
I 4th the recommedation of thecableco/usedcable.com. Their lending library allows you to "rent" cables for audition.
As far as silver vs copper... don't buy anything silver clad. IME is causes grunge in the upper frequencies. I have never heard solid silver cables, but have been told by several high end audiophiles that they are a completely different animal.
Also keep in mind that cable design and materials can affect sound... even within the same brand... by affecting the phase/timing of the signal.
This is true from the source to the speakers. Sometimes it might even require changing speaker placement slightly.
I can cheat in this respect because I am using a 7 channel HT pre, (my apologies to the purists), and can lie to it about speaker distances.
My first serious foray into audio was in the late 90's with a high end mid-fi Onkyo HTR... and I used the cables in the box... and lamp cord for speakers. Later I upgraded to Blue Jeans Cables for ic's... and Monster for speakers.
However... when I went to separates... I noticed that the Blue Jeans ic's created a dry notch in the upper mids/lower highs, and a bloom in the lower mids and bass.
Since then I have moved on to the lower end of Analysis Plus ic's... and speaker cables... and I am satisfied. Neutral, detailed, and open.
While the Onkyo is retired... I still consider my system, (higher end), mid -fi... because most of the components are older model used pieces such as B&k, Adcom, Technics... with newer Anthem and Oppo in the mix.
Power cables have also gone from what was in the box... To a combination of the old Tributaries silver series, (series 9, not actually silver plated), PS audio, Wireworld, and Audioquest.
To the OP. Audio nirvana is a journey. Trust your ears when it comes to YOUR system... and give your ears some time to adjust to any cable swaps you make. What you hear initially may sound good or bad... but over time you may notice differences that weren't evident in the beginning. And again... don't forget the possibility of phase/timing issues, and speaker placement adjustment.
With my latest interconnect upgrade I have come to enjoy the price point and quality of sound in both the KLEI™Absolute Harmony Plugs and shielded Duelund DCA20GA interconnects from my turntable (yes I’m a crate digger) to the tube phono preamp with the KLEI™Absolute Harmony Plugs unshielded Duelund DCA20GA interconnects to the receiver.
The pleasant surprise of a very low noise floor of noise rejection by this combination of plugs/connectors and the Duelund DCA20GA interconnect wire was an added bonus.
I liked Duelund wire so much that I tried the Duelund DCA12GA wire for speaker wire and was equally impressed. But that’s another thread.
They interconnects were custom made by Chris Webber of parts connexion at affordable pricing and wonderful craftsmanship. Chris is also on ebay.
While I’m here I’d like to thank grannyring (GR). GR, I would have never heard or found out about Duelund if not for you here on agon. Thanks for taking the time to inform us all.
I go with a couple of users who mention Morrow. The most obvious difference from any other cable in that range that I can attest to is an amazing sound stage with excellent inner detail. I also need to stay away from extra "brightness" as my system provides enough of that and the morrow cables have that "extra dimension" in the tereble range with things such as cymbals. The "sweet spot" in their line are the MA-4 series. The improvements are not quite as great above that, although the MA-6 speaker cables I use are amazing. At regular prices I would think twice, but they almost always have a 40- 50% off sale. Analysis Plus Ones (yeah, the purple cables) are also very good and a relative bargain.
In a private discussion, one of the members told me that he replaced some $$$$ Verastarr foils with Audio Envy cables. I am trying to find more information on these cables.
I believe price has to be considered in terms of value received for money spent. In that context, I recommend the Venom series of Shunyata’s cables and cords. While not inexpensive, they aren’t “bank breakers”, either. I have yet to be less than pleased when adding one (or two) to my audio system, regardless of application.
Fstein - the Mogami argument is perfect logic and caused me to outfit with them when I could have afforded better cables. Taking that and other “logical” approachs kept me in mid-fi for longer than I wished. Someone finally got me to try better cables and my sound quality jumped. It jumped again when I spent $500 on used $1,200 cables and jumped again at $900 for used $2,200 cables. Why other cables sound better, I don’t know ... and don’t really care any more. I’m just glad they do because I love it when my sound quality increases, its the thrill of this hobby. In so many ways it’s not a logical hobby. But I love it just the same. There are certainly exceptions but when you spend more you can get worthwhile improvements in every area of hifi. I wished I’d learned that much earlier instead of thinking that I was being clever by not trying the more expensive stuff. Just my experience.
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