I'm a bit confused as to whether "bookshelf speakers" are designed to be listened to from a distance, or if they are suitable on a computer desk where the distance to the ear is only ~2 feet. Or, if they are equally good in both situations (which seems to be tough).
I understand that nearfield speakers are optimized for small distances, but they are mostly active speakers, and I need a passive speaker.
Could someone recommend a passive nearfield speaker or bookshelf speaker that works well at small distances, for use on a computer desk?
My tube amp (LTA UL+) puts out 20 Wpc into 8 ohms.
I'm considering:
1. DeVore micr/O
2. BBC LS3/5A speakers such as the Harbeth P3SR
3. Focal Aria 1, maybe Sopra 1 if I stretch my budget. However the recommended amp power is 25W - 150W whereas my amp is 20W, so might not be ideal.
4. Omega Super Alnico High Output
Which (or others) might be best suited for my amp and 2-feet distance use-case? Also, the smaller the better...
I have bought a few of these in the past and it does the job of hearing music on a desk.
I am selling my office system and buying going with headphones for my office (losing the office space). However, when I was using my Magnepan LRS+ speakers in my small office, I had the speaker behind me and the sound was unobstructed to my ears. It was pretty amazing.
My headphones are significantly better than the LRS+ or most small speakers that were unobstructed to my ears. Though, headphones really do not give you great freedom to move around. So, it is a compromise of me.
Harbeth P3esr — one of the few speakers I still regret selling. It is so balanced, non-fatiguing, and natural sounding that you would never want to stop listening. The only downside is that it needs a fair bit of power to drive it to its full potential.
I use ProAc Tablette for near field listening at my desk and they are amazing. I use a custom tube amp to drive them. My local shop that I bought them from demoed them using Audi Note Kondo amps and I was blown away. Small form factor makes them perfect for my desk.
You will need some speaker with a single 2 way concentric driver, i.e., the tweeter sits right in the crack middle...kef ls50, mofi, fyne, etc (where the drivers summing is no longer an issue at small distances).
Get a pair of mofi sourcepoint 8 and set them on stands either side of your PC desk.
(Speakers that are too small sound like trash no matter how close you sat or not.)
Should these be taken very seriously, or are they less important at small distances requiring lower volumes? If taken seriously this will restrict my options considerably.
Have you ever heard of the Audience 1+1? The Absolute Sound called them the best desktop speakers ever made. They are pricey but I believe the characterization is right. I have used them as bookshelf speakers for years and had been very happy with them. Give them a listen if you can. If not, at least read the reviews.
I highly recommend taking a look at Totem Loon speakers. I have a set of one of their predecessors… the Totem Mites. I use them on my computer desk. They are stunningly beautiful and are wonderfully musical, punchy and refined. I have had them for well over ten years. Highly recommended. Being near field you are not going to be playing them at high volumes, so you need them to be punchy.
Should these be taken very seriously, or are they less important at small distances requiring lower volumes? If taken seriously this will restrict my options considerably.
@atriya At your listening distance of 2 to 3 feet, you will barely hit 1 Watt for all your listening. 30 watts will cause deafness with any of those speakers at your listening distance.
For your listening distance nearly any loudspeakerswill work
We got fabulous sound out of atc which are very inefficient with a 40 watt naim if the roon is small and the distance is so short 5 watts will get you plenty of volume let alone 20
I have an Audioengine class D small footprint amp, a Jamo upright pancake sub, and original Kef LS50 speakers. This nearfield desk system is absolutely superb sounding. Apple music and Alexa are my sources. I have stereo setups around my house, and these speakers are as good as any of them (ESS AMT1b, Magneplanar) Happy listening!
@deep_333 Are "point source" speakers like the KEF LS50 Meta always better than something like a Harbeth or Falcon LS3/5A-style speaker, for nearfield listening? I do value good imaging.
Vangaurd Scout speakers at Vera Fi Audio $299 per pair. I've seen several good reviews, and they can be combined with the Vera-Link powered bluetooth for and extra $200......for wireless use
"Better" is going to be a very relative judgement here.
First, manufacturers provide minimum suggested power requirements based on their statistical measurement analyses of their product under rigidly controlled conditions in order to define a base of repeatable performance. Accordingly, you should use them as a guide, but only a guide. Your desk is not a rigidly controlled and repeatable environment. In the real world, more power is a means to exert tighter control over a dynamic element at any given output. Thus, one could argue that you should obtain a better image at lower output with a more powerful amp. Only your ears can make that judgement for you.
Second, understanding of electromechanical dynamics, the electronic devices that control them and the eternal quest for efficiency (read lower cost) has grown substantially since the BBC developed the LS3/5A design. One could argue that the KEF LS50 is the modern iteration of the first truly successful broadcast monitor design that they themselves produced drivers for way back in the day. Having recently auditioned modern KEF dual concentric speakers, I would posit that the engineering has progressed to a point where the two approaches have diverged entirely. They do similar work, but are no longer designed to the same purpose. Only your ears can decide which approach suits your purpose.
Finally, the LS3/5A design was most famously produced by Rogers for decades. Since then, ATC, Falcon, Graham Audio, Harbeth, PMC, Spendor and Stirling have produced the same basic speaker in 8, 11 and 15 ohm variants using Celestion, Falcon, KEF, Rogers and other British drive units. Why would so many different companies produce so many minor variations on the same theme for so many years? Because the basic design does precisely what it was intended to do.
Since the deciding factor will be how you like the sound, audition the LS50 and any of the more traditional LS3/5A designs, then buy the pair you like the most. Then sit down and enjoy the music because at that point, everything else is merely a distraction to the goal: Happy listening.
I use a pair of Cabasse Rialto speakers as my desktop/computer sound source; they ain't cheap by any means and they're quite heavy, but they sure sound great....
@effischer Very interesting, thanks for the detailed response. When you say the two approaches have diverged entirely, what do you have in mind about the two directions in which the products have diverged? As in, what characterizes those two directions? Is one of those two directions more aligned with extreme near-field listening (e.g., desktop use) than the other?
+4 on the P3ESR. It’s an excellent sounding little speaker and IMO beautiful in Rosewood. It is not exactly balanced, having a bump in the lower midbase, but that bump would work for you as a desktop speaker, supplying a pleasing low end that remains integrated with the overall, lovely sound.
The dual-concentric KEF I auditioned was not the LS50, but did incorporate the same driver and employed a similar non-resonant cabinet design. To my ears, I felt the design goal was for a mid- to large-field image. Bear in mind that was one 30 minute audition in a dealer showroom with source material I did not know well. My belief is that KEF has paired a lower material cost approach with a great deal more engineering skull sweat. Whether or not my supposition is on the mark, the sound was not presented in a way that paid homage to the broadcast monitors deployed in cramped quarters of yore. I'm not at all certain how the speaker would fare in a desktop environment.
The traditional LS3/5A design pairs an extremely well-researched sealed volume and resonant cabinet with similarly proven drivers. The mid-bass bump @wrm57 mentions has been documented many times and is there for a reason: The design was intended to be used in a very small space (e.g. the interior of a broadcast van) with the engineer sitting perhaps three feet away with a noisy exterior environment. Clarity and definition across the transmissible dynamic and frequency ranges were the first priority with image created more by speaker placement than anything else. That bump allowed the engineer to hear things that could easily have been muffled or obscured by a passing truck or a cheering audience. That's also why there are entire volumes of commentary about "proper" LS3/5A height, distance from back / sides, toe-in, down / up angle and so on.
All of those things can make a difference to the listening experience with either design approach. The guidance you're really asking for is which one the AgoN forum participants feel would be better in your environment. If it was my money, I would definitely go with an LS3/5A variant because what you're doing is exactly what it was designed for from the moment the pencil first hit paper. It remains good enough to this day that it is a standard against which many other small speakers and certainly most source material, transcription decks and upstream electronics can be compared.
Your budget allows you to consider pretty much all of the best speakers the size class. As would most others here, I strongly suggest you go do a few auditions and attempt to mimic the distance and sitting height in your office area. My opinion is my opinion and may not be suitable for you. In full disclosure, I've owned a pair of the LS3/5A's big brother for decades (BBC LS3/6 / Rogers Studio 1 / Graham Audio LS8/1). I bought them back in the day when I was in the biz and had Accustat, B&W and DCM to compare them against on the shop floor. I have never tired of them and would be very hard-pressed to find something that sounds as good for 5 times what I paid in today's dollars. I turn the system on, stream some stuff to warm everything up then settle in. Then I start to tap my toes and smile. That's happy listening!
I have a pair of Chartwell LS3/5As that were my neighbors. He used them just as you describe, on his desk at ~2 feet as computer monitors powered by a (IIRC) mid-line Pioneer receiver.
When he passed away, his kids cleaned out the house and gave them to me (mint condition) with an extra, NOS, matching woofer.
They sound very, very sweet, but I don’t listen to them because my room is very large (~5,000 cu ft) and I would hate to blow them out with too much power/volume.
And... here's another review of the Harbeth P3ESR XD that you'll find interesting - especially regarding the matching of amplifiers... (if you haven't seen it).
In near-field listening - it's not about the volume produced by the amp, so much as how it drives and controls the speakers and the impedance matching, etc.
This guy's comments are very enlightening in that regard - which are from a studio sound engineer's perspective.
Yes... the Cabasse Rialto speakers are truly amazing in all respects.
I’ve resisted getting a pair because they are such a sophisticated, all-in one system, which I feared would be difficult to repair, if one of the several components within the system developed issues.
But - a one box solution with amazing sound quality for a very reasonable price. Very tempting!
@bassdude- indeed, and a nice thing is that in a different arrangement, I could mount them on stands and I've got a nice pair of active bookshelf speakers. In fact, I think more people use them for that than for near-field computer speakers, but the size and sound quality were right. The amps in those speakers are very heavy!
I have a pair of LS-50s I power with a little Jolida tube amp. I didn't like them that much so they are on my workbench in the garage. When I'm up close, they are really decent. Stereophile had them as class A. I think they would be great for a desk top system with a low power amp.
Does anyone have an opinion on the Mon Acoustic SuperMon Mini, especially as compared to LS3/5a speakers, and the DeVore Micr/o (for desktop listening)?
I'm using a pair of Neat Acoustics Iotas + REL T/zero MKIII subwoofer in my desktop system. I had Audioengine A2+ before, but they can't compete with the Neats. You can find used ones listed very often. Mine are currently driven by Rega Elicit-R, iFi Audio Pro iDSD Signature and Dynamique Audio speaker/interconnect cables. You do not need all the power from the Rega since your will be doing near field listening and will not even use the first watt of the amplifier. The Neat have a wonderful clean sound and being positioned a couple of inches to the front and sides of my 23in monitor provide very good soundstage. You'll not get depth, but the central soundstage with instruments position match that of my full range Neat Ultimatum XL6s, and my Meze Audio Empyrean headphones (that I also use in my desktop system from the iFI IDSD).
Two points: 1 - The technology of the LS-50 simply did not exist when the LS3/5A was developed - using KEF drivers, if you recall. Time moves forward.
2 - Any power amplifier will drive any speaker. The question is how loud. In the case of the LS-50, it's sensitive 85 dB 1w/1m. A 20 w amp will drive them 13dB above that - 98 dB. 2 speakers adds another 3dB, so that combination would yield a peak SPL of 101dB
at 1M. KAllowing for 12 dB of peak headroom, that means you system would support average listening levels of nearly 90dB, or what most would consider quite loud. Doubling the power adds just 3dB, a just noticeable increase.
With your requirements for desktop use, the KEF LS-50 and 20W/Ch tube amp listening a less than 1M should work quite well. Any LS3/5A derivative will be 2-3 dB less sensitive and be subject to the driver integration issues several others have already discussed.
I have the original LS-50 in my small office, driven by a 20W/ch Class D amp, with a Bluesound Node source. I am very pleased with the results. In that small of a space, the lack of the lowest bass octave is hardly an issue.
The Omegas will deliver beyond your expectationt at close quarters and at normal listening distance. Their efficiency will also allow for lower volume clarity without thinning out, and the imaging of single driver speakers is legendary.
Hi atriya, I will give you some input as I am/have been on a somewhat similar journey as you. I have had a couple of the speakers on your list and use some LTA gear.
The clincher for me out of all the speakers I tried so far were the Neat Petite’s.
Here is my list of nearfield speakers I listened to or were on my list: Neat Petite Classic, Dali Menuet SE, Philharmonic True Mini, Ascend Acoustics Luna V2, Harbeth P3-ESR XD. Elac Carina, Source Speaker 1.5WCA, ATC SCM7, ProAc Tablette 10, Audience 1+1, JMR Folia Jubilee, Physics Audio, Sonus Faber Lumina 1
Of everything that I have tried, this is what sounded best to me for a nearfield setup: Chord Qutest DAC, LTA MZ3 preamp/headphone amp, Orchid Audio GAN monoblock amp, and Neat Petite speakers.
My current setup is: Qutest, LTA Z10, and Neat Petite speakers. This setup sounds good at low volume but runs out of drive/headroom at higher volume. But, oh my, the Z10 with upgraded tubes is glorious as a headphone amp.
This thread has spurred me to think about finding some little bookshelf speakers to use in my gym/shop. My needs aren’t much different from the OP’s, so I hope I’m not hijacking the thread. The speakers must be: less than 12-in high, because they’ll sit on a workbench under a shelf; front-ported or sealed-cab, because they’ll be up against a wall; and easy to drive with low-watt tubes, as I’ll be using a 10w push-pull EL84 integrated. So far, only the Proac Tablette 10 seems to fit all criteria. Other ideas? What have I overlooked?
EDIT: I just realized the Devore Micr/O would also fit the bill, albeit at a higher price-point.
NHT SuperZero 2.1
Fyne F300
Ascend HTM-200SE
Polk Audio T15
Sonus Faber Lumina
Paradigm Premier 100B
Q Acoustics 5020
Diapason Micra III Excel
Diapason KARIS III
Diapason Karis WAVE
Acoustic Energy AE100
Usher s-520
PSB Imagine XB
Mission LX-2 MKII
GolderEar BRX
Triangle Bro2
These all under 12", over 87db sensitivity. I did not check the port, I am adding it to now to my database. It's sorted by height. I can send you all the data, 24 columns.
of course. As you see, I didn’t include the Devore and the Proac - already on your list. The ProAc is superb, based on mentions and reviews. I am a bit incredulous about the Devore. But I haven’t heard them, it’s just based on their web site and who have praised them (youtube reviewers). I think there are BS reviewers vs. down to earth reviewers, so a lot of inferences there....
I’m leaning pretty heavily towards a used pair of the Tablette 10, maybe the Sig version. The Devores are intriguing but probably more than I care to spend on this little system.
Just an OP update: I've made my choice. I'll be getting the Omega Compact Alnico Monitor, with an Omega sub. Thanks to everyone who posted here.
The other option would be the new Voxativ Hagen II, but there's quite a difference between $1500 for the Alnicos and $6000/$8000 (depending on the driver choice) for the Hagen IIs.
Congrats! I’m sure they will sound terrific. I owned pre-Alnico Omegas years ago; they were beautifully made and exceptionally coherent with excellent presence, if a bit bass-shy. No doubt the Alnicos are much better, esp with the sub. I’ve actually been thinking about asking Louis to make me a front-ported pair of your speakers, if he thought they’d work well enough that way. He’s one of the good guys.
For sitting at a desk. most likely staring at a screen, the AudioEngines are fine. I use the A2 speakers. For more detailed listening while sitting at a desk I use headphones.
I also have the Harbeth P3 speakers. They activate a larger space and their qualities come out when the sounds has a chance to react to the room. I am listening in a comfortable chair with no other distractions and can appreciate the more relaxed presentation and the sense of space. They cannot come alive when used nearfield (they sound okay, but they are not in their sweet spot at the low volume levels required for near field listening).
It really all comes down to intent. Accurate, dry nearfield monitors are what you want for recording and mastering, but are fatiguing for listening for enjoyment. Big speakers that move a lot of air are great for large rooms and feeling the slam of the bass, but become tiring when you are done being impressed. If you are sitting at a desk, perhaps doing other things besides listening to music, small speakers designed to have a full range at lower volumes will probably be your best bet. The Audioengines excel at that (especially the A2s). If you are using a computer as a source, upgrade to a better DAC (I use a Schitt Modi Multibit with my A2s). A2s and Schitt Modi Multibit < $600.00).
@atriya Congrats and are you going to put the speaker on your desk?
I just spent $170 buying an open box AudioengineUSA A2+ to be placed on my desk. It sounds exactly like I expected. It does the job to some satisfaction, but it is very hard to put a speaker on a desk. I am using an angled brace from AudioengineUSA to point the drivers upwards from the desk. If you can put it on the side of the desk, then that is better.
BTW - The Schitt Mjolnir preamp is an excellent choice for a desktop system. It has no remote and is beautiful Class A sound for $1300. Lucky for me my office sources are hooked up to 2 other options. I have a Benchmark HPA4 preamp connected to a $800 Schitt Aegir amp. The other option is the RAAL VM-1a tube headphone amp for reference level sound.
I am also using the KEF KC62 sub with the A2+. The sources are a Schitt Yggi+ OG | Benchmark DAC3B | Sansui TU9900 tuner | Magnum Dynalab MD108T tuner.
@yyzsantabarbara Yes, on my desk. I ordered some IsoAcoustics Aperta stands, which can be angled/tilted/etc. Also got a sub from Omega.
I already have quite a high-end amp to use with the speaker: the LTA UL+. Thankfully the amp doesn't need to be place on the desk, at the cost of somewhat longer speaker cables.
@atriya The IsoAcoustics Aperta are what I used on my desktop with KEF LS50's. They really helped but putting them on dedicated floor stands was better and then putting them on stands placed BEHIND me was even better. When I avoided all obstructions between the speakers and my ears I got the best sound.
I used some great Audience FrontRow speaker cables on my last office system. Speaker cables are my most important cables.
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