@jasonbourne71 What do supermodels and stereos with great measurements have in common?
Just because they have great measurements doesnt mean you’d be happy living with them.
OK. Cancel me.
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I recall in the mid 80s two articles in an issue of Stereophile. One article raved about a Radio Shack 1 bit portable CD Player how good it sounded when connected to a stereo system via a mini-plug to RCA adapter. The other article discussed the virtues and sound quality of using dental floss versus the OE belt on the Air Force One Turntable. It was the everyman’s stereo magazine back then. The best part: Curious, I stopped by my local Radio Shack one day to see this now famous portable CD player. They were selling them above MSRP due to the recent notoriety complements of Stereophile Magazine. |
A few years ago JA had a Stereophile editorial in which he noted the income disparity in the world and identified a success strategy for every one else, which was to find a way to service the whims of the uber wealthy and live off the crumbs from their table. His editorial was tinged with regret, but that does describe the business strategy of Stereophile and TAS. Every now and then they throw a bone to the great unwashed and review a cheaper item and then point to those relatively rare reviews as a shield against their critics. I still read Stereophile because I like the writers, even if I disregard any of their buy suggestions. TAS, I can’t stomach. As a reader one has to know whose water the magazine is carrying. There are so many alternative sources of information that we aren’t living in a censorship. Each source of information has its own agenda and one should read with the salt shaker handy |
@ghdprentice . Agreed 👍🏻 |
@jbmac75 "The Absolute Sound, Stereophile, and HiFi+ are outstanding sources of information and comparisons." Yes...how does this $50,000 amp compare to that $60,000 amp. Very helpful to many of us. How many times have they reviewed a sub $5000 piece and said "it's good for the money"? As if to say "Well, if THAT's all you can spend...". I read TAS, Stereophile, The Sensible Sound, and many others back when they were irregularly published 9" booklets. Once they started taking ads it was the start of a long slide down into shilldom. |
I can't speak for TAS, which I don't follow closely, but as for Stereophile, you might be overstating this just a bit. Are these "attainable only by a wealthy few"? Nah. Most products I just mentioned are a thousand dollars or less. The AirPods are $249! The reviews of hyper-expensive audio products probably receive the most online buzz, but I don't think that's something Stereophile controls. |
@jbmac75 . Love it. Music that is. Right on! And other superlatives... |
+1 The Absolute Sound, Stereophile, and HiFi+ are outstanding sources of information and comparisons. While there is some variability in neutrality, it pales in insignificance to other sources… forums, marketing info, etc. They use accepted terminology, typically identify their components, venue, and history. They review a significant number of core contemporary components. Critical in this is very high end components that we cannot afford. It identifies the state of the art, providing a reference to what can be achieved at the cost no object level, so they (and we) can assess lessor products. I have read these magazines more or less continuously since around 1980. The landscape is many times more difficult to assess because of the incredible proliferation and diversification of products. This is the place to start if you are serious about high end audio. Read about every product you can. Then go listen to them. Over time you will understand what they are saying and will be able (this takes a long time) to read a review and go in to audition a component and know what it will sound like. High end audio is a very complex and ambiguous pursuit… these publications… although not perfect are outstanding guides. Never read marketing info… now that’s not going to tell you anything. |
@jasonbourne71 . Here's a footnote from Archimago-- "Abso--- So--d even declared MQA “better than Hi-Res!” on an issue cover and the editor Robert Harley even states that “MQA is the most significant audio technology of my lifetime.” Gotta love sellers/ sales-persons .... Don't lose your salt shaker :) (RIP Jimmy Buffett.) |
Very true indeed! I cannot even imagine that a so simple acoustics truth is denied because someone believe as ultimate measuring truths solution the designer marketing department so good his amplifier could be... i will add for more precision : "the lesson is (electrical )measurements are a tool for the designer .How it sound is for the listener" in his room dimensions , geometry +acoustics materials content for his specific ears canals measures and HTRF .
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Remember in the Matrix how the operators could visualize the scene by watching green symbols raining down the computer screen? Apparently, Jason doesn’t need to listen to the music, he watches a graph of the music. A $300 bluetooth amp should generate some great looking charts for you. I still laugh at how we were all caught up in amplifier specs in the late 70s/early 80s. % THD and power output seemed so important. Then one day I heard a good amp without negative feedback which is how they got such great looking specs. The lesson is measurements are a tool for the designer. How it sounds is for the listener. |
@ bdp24.I too feel pricing is extreme. But, there are people with the money & desire to create and buy " the ultimate". I think now more than ever. My buddy drives a Brabus Mercedes G Wagon. Spent big bucks. It's the least comfortable vehicle I've been in. Also, you rarely see them poke their nose out of downtown and a comfy garage. But his chest size went up significantly once he turned the key; and it still does-- so there is a measure of happiness... Can't argue that; can we? |
@jomace. Thanks for info. I agree about the Guide and always used to buy it. Will again now. I was shocked- and put off- at the cost of the dac; therefore questioned relevance. Having gone through the full presentation of the room development I appreciate what I learned; and respect the accumulated expertise and effort that went into it. I respect attention to detail. The speakers just happened to be those under review. Knowledge is power and I expect to gain some by reading about stereo/ hi-fi again. |
And I think that Stereophile has even less cred. than TAS. Point is that TAS doesnt even claim, really, to be an untainted source. Stereophile does. The only issues I read from either of these sources and the ones I get for free at the various shows, but last time I looked TAS seemed much more apt to review products outside of the the small circle. The business model is flawed and so are the magazines. |
Tom Martin comes across to me as do the salesmen in some high end shops.
Prior to the appearance of TAS in 1973, J. Gordon Holt (who started Stereophile in 1962) was the only hi-fi reviewer assessing the quality of components based on their sound, rather than test bench measurements. How he rated components included the consideration of price-to-performance ratio. He never used the term "high end", that was introduced into the hi-fi lexicon by Harry Pearson. Pearson and his TAS staff focused on components which advanced the state-of-the-art, regardless of the cost required to accomplish that goal. We soon saw the emergence of companies whose products cost far more than had hi-fi up to that point. Companies such as Levinson and Wilson Audio. When in 1973 I bought my first "high end" system, the Audio Research SP-3 pre-amp sold for $595, the Dual 50 power amp $695, the Dual 75 $995, and the Magneplanar Tympani T-I loudspeakers $995/pr. Those prices were not all that much more than mass market products. When Levinson introduced their first pre-amp, it was---iirc---priced about double that of the ARC SP-3. And the price race (to the top) was on! It seemed as if high end companies were very interested in finding out just how much audiophiles were willing to pay for gear. It’s gotten rather out-of-hand, wouldn’t you say?
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I got seriously into Audio about 25 years ago and for many years regarded TAS and Sterephile as unimpeachable sources. Gradually I realized that as knowledgeable as the writers may be, there is a tremendous amount of subjectivity in Audio, and there is also a need to sell magazines and keep their advertisers happy. I particularly lost respect for TAS when they became the cheerleaders for MQA. Regardless, the value of these magazines is to alert one to technology development. The internet now can perform the same function. It would be interesting to see if these magazines survive another 25 years |
Interesting takes; thanks for the comments. I'm just getting back to music enjoyment and part of my effort for good sound is learning from the various reviewers; and of course my (asylum :) classmates here at Audiogon and elsewhere. The Wadax "tone control" is something us long experienced listeners have used-- and then determined was ultimately detimental to the sound. OK, what's old is new again. Interesting to see the intense effort on power supply. It has been and will continue to be a focus for me as my background as a Yamaha supported Grand Prix motorcycle racer has instilled the fact that "the Juice" is foundational for performance. Wilson Audio must still be foundational for TAS or Mr.Harley as we observe their "far from top of line" speakers - associated - with all these extraordinary and expensive components. Surely an indication that even Wilson's basic efforts are worthy of such esteemed company. I find the whole presentation interesting and certainly informative. Certainly Bob gets a view from a unique perch virtually no one else will experience. |
@viridian: I’m in complete agreement with your opinion and statement. I had already been reading J. Gordon Holt’s reviews in his essentially 1-man operation Stereophile Magazine when Harry Pearson started TAS. Holt’s number one priority in assessing the reproduction of recorded music was accuracy of vocal and instrumental timbre, freedom from what he termed "vowel coloration." His second priority was transparency, the freedom from a thin gauze being introduced between the recording and the listener. JGH also addressed imaging in his reviews, but it was Pearson and the other TAS reviewers who elevated the ability to create a "sound stage" to a very high priority in their assessments of component quality. While many recordings of Classical music contain an audible sound stage---the locations of the instruments in an orchestra to one degree or another "visible", more so in recordings made in the 1950’s and early-60’s---very few recordings of Pop, Rock, Country, etc.---particularly those recorded in studios, do. The reason for that is studio recordings have no sound stage to "capture" in the first place; in studio recordings each instrument is recorded with it’s own microphone (drumsets typically recorded employing a half dozen mics), the artificially-created imaging created during the mixing process. In many studio recordings, some instruments are recorded in isolation closets. The late, great Art Dudley was head of reviews at TAS for a while, eventually leaving and starting his own fantastic mag Listener---and later joining the staff of Stereophile---ranked sound stage towards the bottom of his priority list. He dismissed sound stage imaging as "parlour tricks" 😆. Like JGH, Dudley considered the ability to reproduce the timbre of acoustic instruments and vocals a very high priority, but went further and introduced the relatively-new issue of "touch" (the physical playing of an instrument) in his reviews. That concept was missing from both HP’s and JGH’s reviews. That, as well as the ability of a component (or full system) to recreate the "forward momentum" of a musical ensemble. That concern may have been a result of Dudley being a musician.
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If anyone is interested, @audio_is_subjective64 is the former @jacobsdad2000, jeffrey125, recklesskelly, jerryg123, earlflynn, juanmanuelfangioi, skypunk, etc. etc. etc. All banned.
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@audio_is_subjective64 is the former earlflynn, jerryg123, skypunk, etc. etc... Wonder who he’ll come back as next. Bye now. |
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I wasn't trying to be funny. I was trying to be helpful. You are obviously suffering. Lack of attention, daddy issues, your partner left you, whatever? You are taking your anger and frustration out on people here, and it's not helping. It's really not the best way to solve your problems, we are here to talk about audio stuff not about how the world is unfair to you.. I hope the rest of your day will go better. |
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I bought a one-year subscription to TAS for $7 online. The March issue was their thumbnails of reviews in all their categories including one new one. Harley’s Complete Guide to High-End Audio is indispensable, I think for audiophiles on any level. The new category is "Pre-amplifiers with Digital-to-Analog Converters." The site where you can subscribe cheap is Zinio.com |
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@audio_is_subjective64 the best option is to leave, you won't be moderated if you don't comment. |
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@corelli , You seem to be sitting a bit to the left looking at the butt cheek imprint on your chair. Your slightly skewing the optimal sweet spot. |
That is a very clean, sweet setup @corelli |