foreverhifi2000 and I do not seem to agree on much.
However, not only do his statements above appear to be quite accurate, they appear to be very insightful and wise as well.
Both from an audio perspective and from a political perspective.
Well said, forever.
-IMO |
ZIENTH ALEGRA,PEG BOARD BACK TO LET OUT THE RICH SOUND ,AND EVERY BOSE SPEAKER I HAVE HEARD |
YES,I,would have to agree,bose are the worst,only there advertiseing sounds good. |
I got to hear a demo between some Fried R4 (I think?) and some Bose 501. The Bose had that lobby sound.....like you were at a live performance, but out in the lobby listening with the doors closed. I'm not exaggerating.....I was surprised it was so bad considering I didn't have any negative Bose feelings at the time.
My brother ended up with the Fried which were great speakers for the time and system. |
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I agree with Forever. He is right on the money in my opinion. I can't say what a good speaker sounds like let alone a bad one. I only know what I like! |
Kennyb,
interesting opinion, I have audition them few times on different ocasions (always clearly better them competition), they are one of the best, as I remember with Hovland and Accuphase AP Avantii III was 3rd or 4-th the best sound on HE 2001 in NY |
I agree, Thiel's do not sound like music, but hi-fi. Also I think that Martin Logans are very overrated, no body to the music, again hi-fi instead of live concert in my opinion. |
Revel Salons are the most over hyped speakers I've ever heard. I've listened to the Salons in a number of show rooms and with same result in each case - too bright and not nearly accurate enough in pin pointing instruments within the soundstage (i.e. flat). They do have good bass, but they better for $14K. Nevertheless, you'd never catch a pair of those in my listening room. |
Bose 901s. An early edition. |
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Anyone ever hear the Reuben Guss speakers at CES some years ago? A friend said they were the worst by quite a margin. About 100 drivers of all sorts of sizes arranged in a rather haphazard manner in a refrigerator size cabinet, and from what he said, they were very expensive, several tens of thousands of dollars, if memory serves. I've seen a fair number of weird ones over the years myself.
Brian |
Without a doubt, Wilson Cubs. After I plugged them in and put some music on, my wife immediately came into the living room and said, "Wow, those are bright speakers."
My ears still hurt when I think about them. Like fingernails on a blackboard.
I owned them for two weeks and immediately traded them in. I was stunned that any magazine, person, or anything with ears had recommended them. And trust me, it wasn't the room, the placement, the amp, the front-end, etc., it was the speakers! Only recording engineers with no more top end hearing would like them. And maybe not even then.
H. |
Hands down Bose takes it. "if it has no highs and no lows-It must be Bose" |
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Bush and Perot ey? Lol
Well, I'll take strong leaders over eloquent speaking, silver tongued comm'ies any day!
GO AMERICA!!!!
As for transducers, I thought the NEAR spekers blew hard! Also, Mirage was a waste for me. That, and most of the stuff Best Buy sold (before Magnolia).
Speakers I wish I kept? Probably the little SF Minima Amators |
most acoustic suspension speakers are bad. panels rule.
the worst panel speaker is better than the best cone speaker. |
Funny you mentioned Watt/Puppies. I thought they were so unnaturally bright they sounded as though my dentist was drilling in my ears. Another bad and overrated speaker is the VanSchweikert. I heard many permutations of them and they all sounded BAD - meaning no good. I for one would appreciate the restraint of disrespectful uncalled for comments about OUR President. |
Cerwin Vegas from the 80s anybody want them cheap! |
B&Ws in general which are to me the equivalent of boys band and Britney Spears: only marketing. |
Mrtennis, you state: the worst panel speaker is better than the best cone speaker All depends what ones personal preference is for a sonic signature. Every different speaker design has its strength and weaknesses. |
The most overrated speakers in my opinion is the Wilson stuff. I never understood why so many rave about them. To me they sound dry, almost dead, unbalanced and unnatural. I've heard WP7 and 8, Sophia 1 and 2. Sophia 2 is by far the best of them to my ears but I still wouldn't call it good. Heard 'em at shows, in homes, in shops, with very good gear. Most disappointing was the WP8 at a big show, partnered with top of the line Krell Evolution stuff, Nordost Valhalla all over the place, in a somewhat acoustically treated room, playing high resolution recordings by Peter McGrath of Wilson Audio.. That was terrible! Lots of people found that impressive, I don't know.. Perhaps I'm crazy. :)
Of course there are many worse speakers, I'm just tagging along on the "most overrated.." discussion. I'm sure one could dig up some 60s junk that would be unbelievably bad. :) |
I won't pan a specific speaker,but the speakers I consider over rated are the ones with bloated bass,designed to appeal to people who listen to them for five minutes in a retail setting.
My second choice is any tenured professor,who is going through the motions,who makes it obvious that he or she would rather be any place else than reading a fifty minute lecture to undergraduates. |
A few years ago I heard a pair of B&W 802N with a correspondingly awful Krell amplifer.
Chalk on a chalkboard was more pleasant and less fatigueing. |
So we got a tie: Wilson and Bose by now for Worst speakers ever, both with 10 nominations each! Actually Wilson had 11 and one good one, so I discounted one bad vote with the good vote...
Now if we take in account over-priced I guess the most expensive would be the tie breaker...
Bush is worst than Gore by one point.
I would add another Bad Point to Bush....nuculuear, or vehicle!!! |
Guys...this is an AUDIO forum |
fatparrot:
i agree with you. i just can't listen to cone speakers too long, without wanting to walk out of the room.
i have been listening to quads for so many years that my ears are not receceptive to cones, or horns |
boom boom tizz, boom boom tizz, we will, we will, rock you! |
I have never heard Wilson speakers, but I am shocked as to how many people are saying how Bad they sound. I had heard that they were among the best. BTW, those Wilsons that sell for six figures better NOT sound bad.... |
Just my $0.02: The associated gear can make a world of difference here, as can the acoustic environment. I've heard Thiels sound like crap, but I've also heard them sound wonderful. Likewise for Wilson. At one HE show, Von Schweikert was demoing the VR4jr, and the sound was just OK with a DK Designs integrated. Down the hall, Moscode was using the same speaker to demo their tube-hybrid amp and the sound was fantastic. |
I think its something like lets hit on the big guy here, I am not a fan of Wilson Audio, but I will take a pair of Wilsons any day over any Bose speakers....and sell them!!! |
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avant gardes paired with audio note. |
i have been listening to quads for so many years that my ears are not receceptive to cones, or horns I know what you mean! The mid range quality on the Quads is tremendous.... |
On the low end, any Bose Acoustimass I have ever heard sounds on par with most higher end computer-audio speakers in the $250 range.
On the high end, Wilson Maxx (the new ones, whatever number they have) driven by Halcro/Meridian left me cold. Unbalanced, thin, dispersed, totally unacceptable for a $150k system.
Then again, on one visit to Denver I heard some of those huge Focal JMLab $85k beasts driven by Boulder amps and it was also crap sound quality for the $200k that dealer was asking.
I've heard plenty of damn good systems in the $50k range, for some reason the sound quality seems to start deteriorating when you go much above that!
I'd also give a dishonorable mention for Musical Fidelity's amps from around five years ago - they could make any speaker sound harsh, brittle, and overly analytical. I haven't bothered to listen to them since. |
b&w Nautilus series and most speakers with Fostex full range cone. |
03-01-03: Zaikesman
The worst $$K speaker I've ever personally encountered from a 'major' manufacturer came from Velodyne, of all companies.
I'm probably going to make some enemies saying this, but I've never heard a good speaker made by a subwoofer company, and I've never heard a good subwoofer made by a speaker company. On the same note, I've never heard a good speaker or sub made by a television company. To answer the original question, anybody who has worked or shopped in CE in Western Canada should recognize this name: Nuance. Enough said. |
>>I've never heard a good subwoofer made by a speaker company.<<
IMO Vandersteen does both quite well. |
09-26-07: Audiofeil
>>I've never heard a good subwoofer made by a speaker company.<<
IMO Vandersteen does both quite well.
Audiofeil, they may well, and I would not presume to disagree with you. I certainly haven't heard every offering in the world. Mostly I was making a blanket statement for humorous effect. |
'and most speakers with Fostex full range cone.'
I'll have to disagree with that comment. I would say the Fostex F200a full range cone Is as good as anything out there. Its mid range is so revealing. To my humble shell likes anyway.
KCS- Makes excellent speakers and subwoofers. |
>>George Bush...?
well, lots of people still believe that iraq had WMD, that Saddam Hussein was involved with 9/11, and that the world is flat. he must be a good speaker. |
As a matter of fact Audiofiel feels so strongly about Vandersteen that he said so in Stereo. ;) |
>>Mostly I was making a blanket statement for humorous effect.<<
Oh, sorry I missed that.
LOL |
Wow, hard to believe someone pulled a comment of mine from '03 to remark upon today. Leeistad, my guess is that the reason Velodyne didn't succeed (in either sense, businesswise or sonically) with their speaker back in the mid-90's wasn't simply because they make subs per se, but because this was their ambitious first attempt at making a satellite speaker. More than one company hasn't succeeded with their first product in a category as well as they did farther down the road. Of course, Velodyne it seems subsequently decided not to proceed any farther down that particular road, so their failure is what I tend to remember (since I was supposed to be trying to actually sell these things at the time).
Moving from the specific to the general for a moment, let me throw this out there: It occurs to me, after reading the recent responses above, that the high-end nominees fall mainly into two catagories: Those with limited bandwidth, limited dynamic range, nonlinear tonal balance, and/or relatively high levels of harmonic distortion; and -- somewhat ironically -- those with wide bandwidth, wide dynamic range, relatively neutral tonal balance, and/or low levels of harmonic distortion. |
for the more expensive line the B&W and SOnus FAber
they both have a nasty peak in the mids the B&w more so
around the 5-6k range ,My freind had the 801 untill last new year inner detail was a little indistinct
for single driver units the Zu druid are a little fuzzy in the inner detail compared with the a Dynaudio ,or A ZEN ADagio in a conventional speaker. |
Anything by Wilson Audio. Dry as a desert. They leave me cold every time. I listened to Wilson Watt fives at one time and was totally unimpressed. In the same room they had a pair of slightly used Dunlavy SC-1's. (Their entry level speaker.) The Dunlavys sounded better in every way. I bought them that day. $700 the pair and they were far more musical than the $15,000 Wilsons. I have never heard a Wilson speaker that I like. I have heard many speakers in the $1,500 to $2,000 a pair range that are far better. |
Anything by Wilson Audio. Dry as a desert. They leave me cold every time. I've heard exactly 1 pair of Wilsons at a friend's house, WP 8s driven by Pass Labs. Absolutely beautiful sounding system, worth the price I suppose if you have the money. And I'm a SET / Hi eff guy, so it's not like I lean towards dry and analytical. |
Well, the worst ones in a home stereo system are almost always the real crappy cheap ones that have come in compact stereo systems from the likes of Aiwa, TEchnics, Soundesign, Sanyo, Panasonic, Sony, Fisher, and the others for years that are cheap and mass produced.
The worst ones I have heard that were very expensive and should have sounded good were Peak Consults at Sound By Singer in NYC a few years back. All bass high end, no midrange. Something must have been wrong with the setup somewhere, yet this mega buck system was demoed as if normal. I've never heard Peak Consults otherwise so hard to say for sure. Maybe it was fine and there is someone out there that would take to the flavor of the sound, which admittedly was quite different from most anything else I have ever heard.
I've also heard some large Sonus Fabers sound really bad run off Krell amps in an old shop in Paramus NJ a few years back, but I know that was an aberration in that I have heard the same SFs sound very nice elsewhere set up right. |
Mapman, would your experience with Sonus Faber and Krell have been at a Harvey Electronics store (there used to be one in Paramus)? I heard the same combo at a Harvey down in Eatontown, NJ, and it also sounded awful. It was definitely the room (flimsy sheetrock walls); the poor distributor rep doing the demo was beside himself, finally shook the walls to let us know that it wasn't the speakers that were the problem. I too have heard SF speakers sound very nice in better conditions. |
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