Jim Thiel passed away and his widow sold the company. That's the reason for your difficulties.
Thiel Customer Service - New ownership is terrible!!! - WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS COMPANY ?
For the past month I've been trying to contact Thiel to get an R.A. for my tweeter that needs to be rebuilt for my 7.2. THERE IS NOW NO PHONE NUMBER FOR CUSTOMER SERVICE AS THERE USE TO BE as recently as last year and the support email address states " we'll reply within 48 hours " is a lie! I've contacted them three times without a single reply. Any ideas or suggestions? Anyone reading this might want to think twice if buying any Thiel used or new products now a days. What a shame.....
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This customer review from the Thiel website pretty much sums up the new target market: " I recently added the Aurora Tour to the decor in my office. Wow! Am I ever impressed with this product!! Not only is it well made, it's also beautiful. It doesn't feel like a bulky masculine speaker like so many of the others. It not only fits into my decor, it compliments it. The set up was also really simple too. I have nothing but awesome things to say about this speaker. I plan to buy a few more for other rooms in my house so that I can link them all together using the app." Nothing worse than those damn masculine speakers. |
I tried to call both American Airlines and StubHub. I was informed of a long wait time and offered a call back when my turn came, 20 to 45 minutes later. I tried 5 times with A.A. and never got a call, only once with StubHub and didn't get a call but was inured by my A.A. experience. I think the message from corporate America is clear: "If you don't want to be disappointed then don't buy anything" is the new normal. |
There are two major points. Firstly, I think old Thiel speakers keep to be one of the best ones, in absolute terms. For instance, for my taste, Wilson Audio speakers, which cost is uncomparable to those of Thiel are no better - with apparently more defined mid and high ranges, they, for my taste, sound more sharp and bright. And lower frequencies of CS 6 and CS 7.2 and just incomparable with even largest Wilson speakers. So keep your CS 7.2 and keep trying to fix the tweeters. I have completed a similar task for my CS 6 about one year ago. Although it took almost one year, the coaxes were rebuilt successfully at Thiel. At that time, the telephone number did work and also e-mail communication was especially useful. Try to contact Rob Gillum at rgillum@thielaudio.com. Although quite busy, he is a nice guy and I think will be able to repar your tweeter successfully, as he did with my two coaxes. Good luck! |
If discounters won't pay what the manufacturer needs to get for a product then don't sell to them for a discounted price. Of course there will always be people resellers negotiating for a lower price, bulk discount, whatever. Price is almost always a factor. How many of us can afford to go buy the very best of everything without regard to price? You can drop hundreds of thousands of dollars on a stereo. Pretty much everybody is looking for the best value for what they have to spend. This will never change. I'm sure manufacturers look to buy parts as cheaply as possible as well. Nobody intentionally overpays I've bought both new and used and the idea that there's something wrong with used is absurd. If a person upgrades a few times of course they're going to have extra stuff that someone else might as well enjoy. A lot of people trade in or sell their used stuff to help afford the new stuff. It's a fundamental part of the hobby. |
Ah! See you used the word "value" and that's what we try to strike a balance for: Performance at a price point. We spent a lot of money researching the audio market and engineering hardware, firmware and mechanicals that let's us achieve performance that's consistently rated 4X-10X above it's price point in reviews. We worked really hard to deliver that performance at a price that is reasonable in the context of the industry. That may not mean that it's affordable for everybody but it's reasonable in the market. (And we recently quit selling to discounters all around the world. Discounters are killing the industry. If there are no dealers, then new customers don't have anyone to guide them through the process of entering into the hobby!) You'll have to trust me when I say I understand that the realities of life make it hard to afford the hobby! I get it, I really do. ) I'm really not looking to start an argument or perpetuate one. If someone starts out with a Dragonfly and eventually moves up-market, I think that's great. At least they're not listening to MP3s any more. But buying decisions need to be based on Price V Performance. If it's just about Price, go buy a Beats Pill and be done with it! Amiright? |
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I thought that value being what the price conscious person is looking for was obvious enough to not need to be explicitly stated. There are a few people who have so much money that they can just buy what they think is best regardless of price and then the 99.x% that factor in price when buying. I definitely agree that getting into the hobby has become extremely difficult. The lack of brick and mortar dealers is a problem for a lot of things these days. I hope some other model emerges that allows people to learn and get into the hobby but that doesn't also include dealers having to scrape by at best and get abused by bunghole consumers. |
THIEL CUSTOMER SERVICE..... FRIENDS AND FAMILY OF THE AUDIOGON COMMUNITY REJOICE!!! THIEL SERVICE / CUSTOMER SERVICE IS ALIVE AND BETTER THEN EVER!!!! And I have all of you to thank for it.... much appreciated!!! Rob Gillium at Thiel Service, 615-866-2290, CONTACTED ME last week and couldnt have been nicer. Mr. Gillium was eager to help and went over the procedure to replace the tweeter. In just two days via Priority Mail, he sent the appropriate "cone module" and instructions that I ( or really anyone ) was able to install in a matter of minutes! You can send in the driver but trust me its not difficult at all to do and you save on the shipping charges. No need to take out the driver. Basically a paper clip and a steady hand was all that was necessary. For just over a hundred bucks, my 7.2's are alive and well once again!!! Thiel owners rest assured that there is someone that cares and will help us in the event of a problem! I cannot give higher praise to Mr. Rob Gillium. Period. On a lighter note to all you Thiel owners out there, I'm always looking to improve my listening experience with my Thiel"s. Any recommendations you might have please feel free to post. Although a bit "embarrassed" for lack of a better word, I have not gone American ( yet ) and stick with my higher end Japanese gear. Having been in the business for over 30 years in the NY tri-state area ( now living in Wisconsin ) and working for Onkyo / Roth Paris Marketing back in the early 90's, I was able to acquire the rare 150 lbs. Onkyo M510 Grand Integra Power Amp - 300wpc RMS and stable down to 1 ohm. My preamp is also a somewhat rare Sony TA-E1, and for source I have an Integra Research RVD 1.1 SACD / DVD player along with a Sony XA-7es and Marantz SA-14 Vr.2 I swap out with the RDV 1.1 every now and again. The 1.1 is better. A pair of NHT SW2's sub's ( L&R bass - why not have the additional separation... ) My choice of cables, as per the director of sales from Thiel at the time ( he would know a thing or two...lol... ), is pure silver Kimber's KS-3038 AND KS-1030 IC's ALL AROUND. My power cords are all ( 4 ) Lessloss Signature's. I probably have/use every (mostly passive) tweeks known to mankind - a passive Furutech TP-60 AC distributor, a dozen quiet lines, CD stabilizer's, anti vibration devices, Shakti, cable elevators, even CD stoplight - to name a few. Yea - I'm one of those suckers... Speaker placement can get tricky with these Thiels and I find myself experimenting often with placement, toe in, straight ahead stance, distance apart, etc. There at least 8 ft. apart, I'm about 10 feet away and my listening area permits me to have them only about 2 feet away from back and side walls so I feel slight toe-in is necessary. I have a log home with all pine walls with near 20 ft. high pine wood sealing. They generally sound great but at times I feel something is missing. I have many other gear that I collect - over 100 components ( including some top power amps / preamps from other japanese firms like a Yamaha B2-x, Elite M-91, Sony TA-N90, etc., but still feel the M-510 / TA-E1 is best though I have not tried them all yet. I have over 4000 CD"S / 100 or so SACD's - I know all about CD's and mastering as I had worked in the first CD only store in White Plains NY - Central Compact Disc for 7 years back in the late 80's early 90's! And about a dozen places after that - heck I probably ran into you at some point back in the day... lol! Of course CES every year for over 10 years... Please feel free to comment on any ideas you might have! Again - I can't thank all of you enough and so glad to know Rob Gillium at Thiel is available and so willing to help us with our Thiel needs!!! All the best.... Regards, Chris |
Very nice news, enjoy newly your CS 7.2s! According to my personal experience, Thiel speakers sound excellent with tube, as well as solid state amps. For instance, 50 watt Manley Stingray drives very well CS 3.6, I love the resultant transparent encouraging sound. For 7.2s though you will need more tube power I guess . You may also consider Manley monoblocks. And my McIntosh solid state 100 watts integrated amp combines also very well with CS 6, giving a soft, natural and detailed overall performance with clear deep bass. |
Hi Chris, Very good to hear of this. Try bringing the speakers out another 2 feet from rear wall (4’ total from wall to front of speakers) such that you and the speakers form an equilateral triangle 8’ on each side. Toe such that the imaginary lines projecting from the tweeters cross three feet behind your listening position. Even if you think you cannot leave them there permanently, try this to see what is gained. Absorptive panels at the first reflection points (halfway between the speaker fronts and your listening position) and bass traps will help immensely. Dave |
Much Thanks! for the update- aolchris Good to read that Mr. Gillum was in a position to help you and get your speakers back on track. You own very nice gear-especially the cd and sacd players. I look forward in reading more about your listening thoughts and impressions as it pertains to Thiel speakers. Happy Listening! |
Hello Jafant and to all!!! I'm sorry for the late reply - my mother broke her leg last month and I have had no time for myself ever since. I'm still a month behind but wanted to quick touch base with Jafant and everyone! So my 7.2's are sounding great, thank you for asking, though I still continue on experimenting with placement every now and again. There are times I wish I had them in a smaller, wall to wall carpeted room, as I did with my Thiel 2.3's I had before these and LOVED THEM!!! I was always a " Studio Monitor " type sound guy ( what comes in goes out - nothing added ) and theres something to be said ( or heard... lol ... ) about that environment - especially when comparing it to this new big - room sound I have now. I understand the theory of Big speakers like Big rooms but larger rooms create problems that smaller and deader rooms dont. Someone here mentioned acoustic treatments which I had back in NY - lots of them too. I had them on 1st., 2nd, 3rd., reflection points ( left wall, right wall, ceiling, floor, and on every corner, etc. - even did the mirror thing to make sure I was exact on my treatment placement ) Although sound has always been my first priority, when you live in a big log home that is nearly 100% completely pine EVERYWHERE, I have to give up a little something up for cosmetics....I'm sorry - I said it..... Mind you, I have 7 other stereos, 2 set up at present in smaller wall to wall carpeted rooms where I can still enjoy my monitor or headphone - like sound ( NHT 2.9's and others ). I love my Thiels but as we all know be careful what you feed it - there is little forgiveness with these speakers. I love ALL types of music. And I mean all! ( 4000+ CD's ) I do listen to vinyl on occasion but primarily CD and SACD. I know all about quality masters too as I worked in a CD store for 7 years as well as been in many recording studios in my day with artists you probably all know. From selling speakers for as low as $50 a pair back at J & R Music World back in the day to $80,000 Focals at Audio Breakthrough in Manhasset L.I., well, I know a thing or two. Oh - could I go on.... I will be temporally swapping my M510 out with a bunch of other amps including a Sony TA-N90ES ( MOS FET - whatever ), Elite M-91, twin Marantz SM-17 configured in MONO ( not sure how do this yet - they have a weird configuration ) and a old time favorite - Yamaha B2x 170wpc rms - labeled Class A ( well, not really...lol ) though I could fry an egg on this... literally - maybe it really is Class A....... I know its wishful thinking and really Japanese wizardry at play here! I will also swap out my pure silver Kimber's with some high quality copper - Straightwire Crescendo II ( an absolute pain to work with ) and even my original MC SIgma's really aren't that bad though hated in the audiophile community. They do have great bass. Maybe this will take some of the brightness away. Big bright all - wood room, big bright amp, bright cables = Really bright system... ) though be it probably somewhat less revealing w/o the silver. Ill give you an update in a bit. But again want to give thanks to the Audiogon community for all your continued help and support! Regards, Chris |
Thank You for the update- aolchris. Good to read that your Thiel loudspeakers are singing again. Those older Sony ES and Pioneer Elite power amps are Audio classics. You may even find their sound and presentation a pleasant surprise in your system. Keep posting your listening thoughts and impressions. Happy Listening! |
You can always try. WWW.loudspeakerrepair.com for rewinding voice coils they ship internationaly. Stefaan. |
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Hey jafant and goners! Sorry for the late reply but I’ve had a busy month. You mentioned giving an update on my 7.2’s etc. Well a few changes. I will first say I haven’t had too much time to listen lately but a little never the less. First, it was painful but ( temporrarally ) replaced my 300wpc 150 lbs. M-510 with my Mos Fet 100wpc, 42lbs. Sony TA-n90es. You know this thing sounds really good! Wait.... Are my ears deceiving me? Could I be linking this amp more then my M-510? No - can’t be.... lol. We know Thiels, especially the 7.2’s require ( work better with )a lot of power. Well, the TA-N90’s 100 wpc is more then enough for my Thiels. I generally would NEVER recommend any Sony amplifier for sound quality - just never liked that Sony “ House Sound “ if you will but the 90 just sounds different and good to my ears - not like other Sony’s in the past. I’m wondering if age has something to do with it? My Onkyo, circa 1985, has never been touched, upgraded, recapped, etc. I realize, while still working, amplifiers can suffer sonically with just age. The caps wear out and simply don’t sound as good as new. Don’t get me wrong - I would take TOTL OLD SCHOOL ONKYO any day over Sony - and the M-510 is super rare and in a class by itself but this circa 2000 Sony is that much newer with far less hours and though smaller and lesser, made with equally good ( maybe better ) parts. I believe Sony engineers modeled this after a high end American amp design. And Mosfets do sound really good! Never being a Sony amp lover, I gotta tell you, my TA-F808 es is also wonderful and similar. I will give it some more listening and make a decision. Might my m510 lost some of its spunk over the years? Or are my ears just pleased to hear a new amplifier in the system? Feel free to comment. My Thiels work great with either. I am also looking for a pair of Marantz mono MA-9s2’s for a good deal. I have one of there much smaller SM-17SA which is phenomal ( have you seen the build quality of this amp )? And also actually looking for another one of these to bridge and get 200 watts mono. Though only 60wpc, these reference Marantz amps sound simply amazing and would love to try with the Thiels. That will be next! In closing , I have upgraded my Kimber KS-1030 silvers with the better Kimber KS-1036 ( more silver ) and think I’m liking it a little more but need more listening time. Also wondering if I should buy a spare tweeter from Mr. Gillum while he still has them ( preseumebly ) now that Thiel, as it seems, is gone forever. Any thoughts? Hope all is well and I’ll be posting back in a bit! Regards, Chris |
I was curious how something as ridiculous as the current Thiel ownership could have come about. I did a few Google searches and found a few things including the below link. I'm betting the David B. Griffin in this article is the same David B. Griffin mentioned in the Strata-Gee article. He appears to be a combination of spoiled rich boy and farm welfare super-queen. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2002/01/24/more-subsidy-money-going-to-fewer-farms/7... |
Coherent Source Service, LLC, is located at
763 Newtown Pike, Suite 130 Lexington, Kentucky USA 40511, about one
mile from the old Thiel factory. You can reach them at
rob@coherentsourceservice.com. Tel: (859) 554-9790. Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/service-continues-legacy-thiel-loudspeakers#rmcxulMFWe5KSR9C.99 This came across my desk today. Current information on Thiel Customer Service via Stereophile.com Happy Listening! |
To all Thiel Owners. I have been enjoying my CS-5s for over 1 year now with Rob Gillum’s assistance. Last week I purchased a pair of CS-3.7s that needed drivers to be whole again. So I emailed Rob this morning Monday, February 26, 2018 10:04 AM and received this reply at 11:17 AM. I received my UPS tracking information via Email at 1:27 PM. I will receive my parts in 3 days. I quote Rob’s response here:
“Thank you for purchasing the CS3.7’s. I am sure you will find them sonically beautiful. The owners Info, and outrigger cap needed will be sent free of charge with the rest of your order. I will go ahead and place the order for two CS3.7 coaxes and one passive radiator. Please visit my website to make payment at www.coherentsourceservice.com. Once PayPal receives the funds they will send me an email, and I will expedite the shipment via UPS ground as requested. Thank you for the ownership of our products.”
Best regards,
Rob Gillum
Coherent Source Service 763 Newtown Pike Ste. 130 Lexington, KY 40511
859-554-9790 I have heard and read to the contrary and felt lead to share my and Our collective good fortune with Rob Gillum. |
Nice to have other cs7.2 and thiel owners here! I have a pair of 2_2 and 7.2. Like Chris, I have some Japanese gears, as well as American gears. I am now using Linn DS or Sony R1 with sonic frontiers dac as source. I had tried several pre-amplifier, included mark levinson ml-26s, ml-1, luxman c-08, yba 1-alpha. Now I feel that yba 1-alpha with accuphase m-1000 is the choice. I also recommend MIT cables to pair with thiel. I would like to see more owners to share their gears with 7.2. I am also wondering about the sound of 3.7. Is it better than 7.2 or 5i? Is moving from 7.2 to 3.7 an upgrade? |
I've heard the CS7.2 and 3.7 but a few years apart, different rooms, systems . . . Both are excellent, no doubt. The coax driver in the 3,7 is probably better than that in the 7.2. Makes sense given that it is a later model and would include more of Jim Thiel's advances. The increased rigidity with in the midrange diaphragm likely increases the range of pistonic behavior. The 7.2 almost certainly is better in the bass, going lower and probably also tighter. |
I remembered some sentence mentioned about the brightness of 3.7. I don't know if 3.7 needs more attention to be matched up with front end.Perceived brightness with the 3.7s (and other Thiel models) probably says more about the partnering equipment than the speakers. They are high-resolution, low distortion designs. The CS3.7 coax, in particular, has break-up modes well out of the operational range. The pistonic behavior will reproduce the signal with excellent fidelity. Flaws in upstream components are revealed but many listeners just assume the problem is the speakers! Most Thiel models are well-known for demanding powerful amplifiers but please make sure to also use high quality! |
The 3.7 is not bright. If somebody finds it bright it's because they have bright electronics, a bright room and/or prefer a rolled off sound.I agree. The Soundstage measurements of the CS2.4, for example, show an exceptionally flat response, +/- 2 dB from ~33 - 20k Hz. I think that is the best in their data base (you can ignore Stereophile's measurements which are taken at a mere 50"). Subjectively, I hear a very neutral presentation from the lows to mids to highs that corresponds to those measurements. |
Hello all, I have to agree with all the above points. After I acquired my 3.5’s, I suddenly became aware of the true definition of revealing. Thru the Thiels, poorly recorded materials sounded almost unbearable! Even though my integrated at the time was up to driving them quite well power...and CURRENT...wise, it just lacked the musicality of better equipment. Thus, my system has evolved greatly and has been shaped around these speakers. I am convinced that the brightness, harshness, edge that some people hear isn’t an inherent flaw with Thiels, but rather, the fact that the Thiels are simply ruthless in playing exactly what you are feeding them thru the equipment they’re hooked up to. I never paid much attention to the idea of equipment matching. But, the Thiels (which were my first truly Hi-End, reference-class components) have shown me that yes, in the realm of hi-end audio, EVERYTHING really does matter... Enjoy the music everyone! Arvin |
Everyone, Know I'm late to the game but wanted to throw in another good and spectacular word on Rob Gillum. I do not own a pair of Thiels yet, partially with my worry of loud enough reproduction on my tube amp, and making it a goal to get some eventually. One day. As such, I live in Lexington KY. A colleague who I work with has a boyfriend who lives in Connecticut and who's Thiel floorstandings were damaged by flooding. Got them serviced, well taken care of, and drivers back to new. From what I hear, everything is great as he was originally super upset and worried about them when damaged. I only wish I lived here in Lexington before the Thiel buyout. Even though don't have official engineering background, I do have some base knowledge and wished I would have gotten to learn more about these and construction first hand. |
Hello, I have a question that if the soldering of the drivers or tweeters affects the sound quality or not. If I get my drivers back from service, I need to do the soldering by myself. Basically I could do the work, but maybe not good in shape or may get more amount of solder on the joint. Any experiences could be shared? |