Triode Wire Labs or NRG Custom The Five for my 300b SET tube amp?

Hi @jambaj0e 

I don't have experience with TWL cables, but I have been using the NRG Custom - The 5 on a Class A/B SS amp, and a Class D amp, and it's smaller, thinner sibling the .1 on my DAC. I also have their speaker cables - the 6:6.

In my experience, (system, room, ears etc), I would say they/NRG cables are neutral, not warm. Dynamics-wise; no complaints here, at all.

I'm not interested in proving they're fake or not. On highly revealing systems I have heard the difference, and I've heard it between two cables on mine (the current Morrow Audio Map3 on the amp and the Audioquest Thunder that ended up on my PS Audio Power Plant 3).

So anyways, back to the main question, I would like to hear if it's a big enough improvement to get the Triode Wire Labs over the NRG. 

I own the TWL 7 Plus, 10 Plus and digital power cable but unfortunately, I have nothing to compare it to. The quality of these cables does seem very good though.

Yeah both cables have been getting high marks, I just wonder how big of a difference they'll be. 

Plug directly into the wall and compare to evaluate your current power cable.  I have seen some pretty bad Morrow audio power cables.  your 300b needs a good ready current supply for dynamics.    A cheap generic 10 awg cable will probably get you much better dynamic performance than the Morrow.  I applaud you for trying to say good things about it.

Jerry

I've been using Cardas Clear Beyond for my Coincident Frankenstein 300b's. Really made a noticeable different in the clarity of the soundstage, as well as depth and height. Just more organic than the OEM power cords.

I have TWL on my digital components. I've tried them on my tubed amp and preamp and was not impressed. The cord that really kicked up the dynamics in my amp was a ZenWave (silver ribbon) pc which I have no desire to ever replace.To me it seems to just allow the amp to perform at its best, not adding a flavor of its own. No experience with Shunyata.

@jtcf which TWL cable did you try on your tube amps?

@carlsbad  The Morrow Audio MAP3 is actually much better than the stock cable or a cheap generic cable, I can tell you that much, although it’s not as good as the Audioquest Thunder that I ended up using for the PS Audio Power Plant 3.

It’s not a bad cable and I certainly been surprised by how much bass extension and texture there is. I just want a bit more grip and dynamics and so far from AudioBacon’s power cord shootout, the MAP3 is a "less heavy" version of the NRG The 5 (so I should get similar sound signature, but more oomph with NRG).

AudioBacon: 27 Best Audiophile Power Cables - Morrow Audio MAP3

I’m more interested in seeing how much of a difference the NRG The Five is compared to the Triode Wire Labs Seven Plus

@audiojan While I would love to spend $1000+ on a power cable (that Triode Wire Labs Obsession seems amazing, too), I unfortunately have the double trouble of loving two fairly expensive interests with audiophile and road biking (Just bought a $7000 carbon fiber bike with $2100 wheels!), so, I'm trying to temper my spending a bit by having a limit of $700, lol.

@jambaj0e I completely get it. Being a cyclist (and duathlete) myself as well as my wife being a cyclist (and triathlete), I know how expensive that hobby is. We have way more in bikes than I do in my audio.

You can find a used Cardas Beyond Clear for the $700 (or even slightly less), that's what I did.

@audiojan Whoa, that's amazing! What do you guys ride? I have the Fezzari Veyo with Ultegra 12-speed di2 and Zipp 303 Firecrest wheels + Garmin Rally RS200 powermeter, Specialized S-Works Romin Evo saddle, and ENVE SES Aero handlebars. They sure add up, lol!



Wow, $700 is a really good price for Cardas Beyond Clear AC cable. I'm seeing it for $1050 - $1300.

LavriCable flies under the radar but their products punch WAY above their price. Their cables are 5N silver but just sound like music with excellent dynamics and detail. I’ve got several of their cables and many other very established members here have bought their cables and gush about how good they sound. At your price level you can buy their absolute top PC, and I think it’ll deliver exactly what you’re looking for in spades. Hope this helps, and best of luck.

https://www.lavricables.com/cables/grand-30-core-silver-mains-eu-us-power-cable/

Multiple bikes, but my main road bike is a Ventum NS1 with full Campy Super Record EPS, ENVE AR4.5's, Quarq power meter (with Absolute Black chain rings). My wife's main bike is a custom Parlee that she's had for years. A whopping sub 13lbs with 50mm carbon hoops, power meter, SR EPS, etc. Tri/du bikes are both Ventum One with SR EPS. All in all, about 14 bikes between us

That Fezzari bike looks absolutely sick, but the seat makes me think it feels like getting a prostate exam.  

@soix oh there's a cut out in the middle. Plus, your bib shorts have the padding so it can move with your body and chafe (which can happen with too much padding on the saddle itself). I've gone 100 miles + in one day with this saddle.

Got it.  The cutout in the middle seems key to especially male comfort/health.  And I forgot about biking shorts having padding, which I also own and are obviously key.  And I had no idea about the chaffing issue, but that makes total sense. 

Almost $10,000 for a bike?? Meaning bicycle with no engine? You must be insane! Something from Walmart at a fraction of the cost brings you fine from A to B….

Just kidding. As long as you blind tested the $10,000 bike vs. the $169 bike and you got it right 10 out of ten in blind tests, it’s worth it 🤪

I did learn something about bikes today….

I second @soix recommendation on Lavricable PCs. Also, put Zavfino, a Canadian company, in your research list: https://zavfinousa.com/collections/power-cables

I agree @soix with regard to the Lavricables power cables. Excellent natural sound without highlighting any particular aspect of the audio. Top to bottom balanced presentation. Again, very natural sound. Definitely an under the radar type of product.

They serve beautifully with my 300b SET mono blocks, DHT (101D) tube line stage and a custom made tube DAC (Ukraine built 6080 output tubes).

Charles

I’ve got a bunch of Pete’s wires in my system… obsession power cords mostly. Pete also has modified some of my cords for my new home in the uk. I wasn’t nuts about his speaker cables…

…but I Love Triode Wire Labs…!

For the price of the cable why not try to find some nos telafunkin tubes to try.

@sgreg1 i really like my Western Electric 300b tubes though. 

@steakster that is a really strange saddle. I can't imagine going up long climbs on that. As for speaker positioning, luckily I'm headphone only at the moment, lol. 

@thyname oh yeah almost $10, 000 for the bike, and I’ve gone as fast as 52 mph on it, as well as ridden 100+ miles in a single day. Those are things I’d never do on a Walmart bike, lol.

I am curious about those Lavricables now, too. How's the dynamic punch and soundstage on them?

NRG Customs hasn’t hit me back, so maybe I’ll buy those as my 2nd pair to test against the TWL Seven Plus which I just bought today (thanks Pete!). I’ll read more on that and Zafrino, too. Ugh, too many too choose from. It’s like how to choose the right tires, shoes, or saddles for my bike, lol 😂

Shoes alone, I’ve bought my 6th and 7th pair (other than my first shoe, I’ve gotten two of each in white and in black). This time I got two Shimano Rc903s

TWL Seven Plus is very good value for the money. Open and dynamic sound. Great on the amp and very good on preamp. Easy to maneuver as well as it’s pretty flexible and light. 

@painter24 By the way, for your NRG, which ends did you get, the gold or Rhodium? Nawaz from NRG recommended that for my 300b tube amp and the sound I'm looking for with that touch of warmth to go with gold, not rhodium.

@jambaj0e 

I went with gold; I wanted a little warmth also 👍

I found Nawaz great to deal with by the way, he has a genuine passion for what he does. When I ordered the 6:6 speaker cables, he'd ust changed the design of the splitters to speaker; he couldn't wait to show me the new design I would be receiving 😊. I love the fact NRC CC is a one man operation, creating great products at a good price

I am curious about those Lavricables now, too. How’s the dynamic punch and soundstage on them?

They’re 5N silver and nail it on both counts. I use both their balanced interconnects and balanced headphone cables in my HeadFi rig and I ain’t letting either of them go. I’m using an iFi Zen stream into a Denafrips Iris DDC feeding an i2S signal into a Musician Pegasus R2R DAC that in turn feeds a Linear Tube Audio MZ2 amp that drives my Hifiman Arya Stealth ‘phones just for context. BTW, I also use a LavriCable USB cable that I’d also highly recommend as it features dual 5N silver cables to physically separate digital and power signals that usually comes at a much dearer price from other companies. Just another idea FWIW.

https://www.lavricables.com/cables/ultimate-silver-dual-usb-a-b-interconnect-cable/

+1 @soix 

I use the Lavri Grand RCA interconnects between DAC and amp. Lovely, clear, purity of tone. I'd like to experiment more with Lavri to be honest. I would like to try their power cords, especially on my amp, but they don't do UK mains plugs on the Grand. I suppose I could try the Master on my DAC

@soix aren't silver cables tend to be more on the cool side though? I wouldn't want to loose the bit of warmth I have and sweetness of the 300b if the silver is too cool. Transparent/neutral yes, cool no. 

aren’t silver cables tend to be more on the cool side though? I wouldn’t want to loose the bit of warmth I have and sweetness of the 300b if the silver is too cool.

No. That’s a farce and the beauty of LavriCables. When silver cables are designed well, they’re glorious. They strike that magical balance of natural detail, warmth, and neutrality without ever sounding thin or harsh. They’re really the best of all worlds. I don’t know how they do it, but they just sound like music and I think other owners here will back me up on this. They’re a relatively unknown gem IMHO, but my bet is they’re gonna grow and their prices will probably go up.

I concur with Soix; my fear was that the LavriCables would be cool, lean, harsh, which are not qualities I enjoy at all, but this couldn't be further from the truth in my experience. 

You guys are a bad influence, I have the urge to explore deeper in to the Lavri range of products now 😂

Your shortlist is for two Cables cost approx' $420 and $500 for a 5' feet length.

I have not been demo'd or purchased many Branded and Assembled Cables.

I have been demo'd and purchased a variety of Wire Types used for Power Cables, and have rejected the ones that have produced a perception that a colouration is being produced that conceals attractions that are able to be presented.

My experiences to date has lead me to PC Triple C Wire as the go to wire used for a Power Cable.

Using this Wire Type has allowed for substantial amounts of detail / micro-details to be perceived as being present. The impact the Wire Type can have (for myself, does have), is that the desirable traits already enjoyed from a presentation will become more noticeable/attractive and will certainly be an experience wanted to be maintained.

I use on my Valve Phonostage and Valve DAC, a Cable produced by Nanotech and have terminated it with Pure Copper Connectors.

I have loaned this Cable out to others interested in PC Triple C, and following their Trials of different Cables, such as SAEC and Acoustic Revive, which have been DIY Terminated with Solid Copper Connectors. I have been informed Acoustic Revive Unshielded 2.5mm Power Cable has edged out other Cables.

The Acoustic Revive + Solid Copper Power Connectors can be Sourced for approx' 75% cheaper that your Shortlist Cables.

Having this Cable Type at hand, produced by oneself of having somebody to the final assembly, will also open up further option to investigate a Wire Type.

If the desire is to have the maintenance of detail / micro-detail that PC Triple C is capable of preserving and would like to add to the presentation a hint of Richness, a D.UC.C Wire used for a Power Cable will do this.

D.U.C.C Wire can be found in Cable produced by Mitsubishi (The Wires Manufacturer) or Acrolink.

Both PC Triple C and D.U.C.C is a Wire used by Branded Cable Manufacturers that produce terminated ready to use Power Cables. Their products can be found at a cost that can by far surpass the costs of the cables on your shortlist.

Currently, there is a Triode Wire Labs High Power Digital American Power Cord listed on US Audio Mart.

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649986829-triode-wire-labs-high-power-digital-american-power-cord/

@kodak805 i talked to Pete and he said for my Tube amp, the Seven Plus would be better. So I bought that and will probably buy another cable to compare against. Although I just read Lavricables does not offer any return or trial policy =(

@jambaj0e  

I am sure they are nice but I have heard for years that the glass diamond telafunkin tubes are the holy grail if you can find. I found once but $500 per was out of my reach.

@sgreg1 i didn't even know Telefunken makes 300b tubes 

TWL cables are tremendous values and Pete's customer service is second to one.  The 7+ cable is dynamic and was voiced on Pete's system which is 300B based.  
 

People all too often think of power cables only in terms of gauge.  The geometry of cabling is at least as important as gauge and materials.  My MPC Mini++ cable (PFO Brutus Award winner) is a 9 gauge cable.  The standard Mac power cable is 18 gauge.  Why?  Because it took that gauge in a double helix configuration to get the inductance extremely low and the capacitance high, which is the impedance mix that the SMPC likes for optimum performance.  

The TWL cables are built using terrific materials, advanced geometries and voiced for different applications.  Best part is that along with the cables you get a business owner that has his customer's satisfaction as his highest priority.  Very seldom does anyone take advantage of the 30-day return policy.  Highly recommended!

@jambaj0e

in your original post you mentioned you were running 6sn7’s ?

@jambaj0e 

i didn't even know Telefunken makes 300b tubes

They do not.

Charles 

A side tangent, in regards to burning in your power cable, would it be ok to plug it into a non-audiophile gear, ie. a computer to keep it running for a long time? I just don't want to burn away the life of my Western Electric 300b or 6SN7w tubes.

A side tangent, in regards to burning in your power cable, would it be ok to plug it into a non-audiophile gear, ie. a computer to keep it running for a long time?

Yes you can.

Charles

UPDATE: So I just received my Triode Wire Labs Seven Plus, and right out of the box, all I can say is WOW! This isn’t just a bit better than my Morrow Audio MAP3, but it’s very noticeably better! Everything seems to be more improved, from dynamics and texture to bass slam/extension and instrumental separation.

They’re not kidding when they say they have their PRAT (Pace, Rhythm, and Timing) down pat.

I’m not sure how many hours Pete burnt in my cable in his Audiodharma Cable Cooker, but I’m so glad he did so.

I’ll give it a few more days listen, but I feel that I may just cancel the NRG Customs "The Five" that I have on order and won’t even ship for 2 more weeks.

@jambaj0e yes the Seven Plus is very good. Not surprised at all you like it. Very open and dynamic. Enjoy!

@audphile1 Yeah! I'm just so surprised how much better it is! It's almost like I just changed my headphones or took out some cotton from the earcups or something, lol.

The crazy thing is while I don't think soundstage got bigger, instrument separation became clearer and more distinct, especially with how the drums sound.

Shoot, now I'm so tempted to upgrade my XLR from my Morrow Audio MA4 cables. They do have the Furutech CF-601M/CF-602F Rhodium connectors, though. Can I use them on a new cable?