Did you get the amp back?
TRL WON'T GIVE ME MY AMP
Not sure this is right Forum but I'm desperate. I have an Tube Research Labs amp that the owner Paul Weitzal made for me 9 or 10 yrs ago. January 2019 the amp started to cut out, contacted Paul but learned he had pasted away. Received email from TRL saying still in business with new Owners. Gregg from TRL contacted me and told me to shipped it to an address in Houston which I did, insured for $5,000. A few weeks later around the end of Feb. Gregg sent me an email telling me the amp was over heating. The 1st of March I email Gregg with instructions on what I wanted done. That is the last time I had any contact with Gregg!!!!! I sent email after email to TRL pleading for someone to tell me where my Amp is????? The last of week of August, I sent an email to TRL saying if I didn't hear from anyone I will go to stereo sites and tell my story!! Immediately had phone call from Leon in NEW YORK asking me "what 's going on?"After explaining the situation to Leon, said "would call me back in a couple days". So needless to say Leon never called back and when I call, he is never there and leaving a message does no good. I'm hoping someone can tell me what to do????IF nothing else, do not do business with "Tube Research Labs"
Thanks Kim
Thanks Kim
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I am going to defend small operations. Where else are you going to get hand soldered point to point equipment? I recently bought a tube pre-amp from such a place: Aric Audio (not real expensive at $1300), and love it. He also sells some more expensive stuff. If the gear lasts longer than the owner of the company, I think you have made a good purchase. |
Paulcreed, I get it. You’re right, there often, depending on geography, isn’t much to buy locally. We moved from the SF Bay Area, which is full of audiophiles, to Arizona, where audiophiles are few and far between. My point was that people rarely get burned in a cash-and-carry transaction. If you can’t take it home with you, there’s always the potential to get scammed. Fortunately, I have never had a bad experience, and most Audiogon transactions are legitimate. But these unfortunate situations end up on this forum all too often. Buyer (or seller) beware! |
Stereo5, all you need to do is check the GE stock price. Today it’s trading around eight. Several years ago it was $60, a few years ago it dropped down to $30, today it’s $8+. It’s going in the wrong direction for a successful company. My belief is that a large part of their problem is the overhang from the generous pensions enjoyed by their past employees. They seem to be trying desperately to find some formula for success. Despite changing CEOs, selling assets and putting out optimistic press releases, the stock is still $8+. I think their best hope is being acquired by another industrial behemoth. That’s why I said that GE is on the ropes! |
Hi Guys, Wanted to give an update. Thursday missed a call from Leon in NY but left message saying he had an update with my Amp and asking me to call. I called but he wasn't in so left message asking to call me back. Friday did not hear from Leon and I was busy at work today and did not have chance to call. I will call Saturday. I will give updates as they happen. Also want to thank Everyone for helping me out with this. Few a You have reached out to me with information on TRL. Again want to Thank Everyone for being helpful and supportive. Kim |
Tonykay it's a little hard to buy the gear you want used locally. I'm vey trusting and before PayPal was popular I was sending large sums of money with USPS money orders buying off Audiogon. Luckily I never got burned, there are good people out there. Motoman is right. My dad was an attorney and his advise in a situation like this was always get a lien on there property if they have it. It becomes a waiting game to get funds. There now trapped with there property. Hopefully it will be a deterrent and don't want the hassle and send you your property back, good luck. |
stereo5’s suggestion to only buy equipment manufactured by large companies is a good one. I would eliminate GE, as it's on the ropes. I also agree with the idea of buying a plane ticket to visit the place you sent your amp. Finally, my solid recommendation is ALWAYS buy locally. Search the internet for equipment you want, but if you can’t drive to see it, move on! That way, you won’t be the author of stories like these that are becoming all too familiar. |
Nothing like getting the FBI involved. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPcIiDfj8yc All the best, Nonoise |
If the internet was used in this transaction, it falls under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA). It is a federal crime. Contact the Computer Fraud Division of the FBI in the city nearest the perp. I had a similar problem with a piece of electronic test equipment. The FBI in Dallas were very helpful. I asked if they would send an official letter to the man. Instead he said he would go to the man's address. The next day, my money was refunded. I'm a retired social worker, so I know how to use the system. |
Your HO/renters insurance may cover this type of theft even though the item wasn't taken during a burglary. It is probably the cheapest resolution outside of a Small Claims Court win (and the defendant actually pays as ordered). It's likely that Gregg Scott isn't even the real name of the person who stole your amp. |
The advice from moto man is very sound. Neither the DA or AG here in Texas will do anything to assist you. Small Claims court is probably your best bet. Not sure what state you live in but here is a link to the Texas gov site that has some good resources where you can learn about taking someone to Small Claims court. https://guides.sll.texas.gov/small-claims . I would guess that your state also has links to resources like this to assist folks with Small Claims. I've also included a link to the Texas Secretary of State Corp Commission. You can use the links to search business names. I also included a link to a site that talks about liens. https://www.bizfilings.com/toolkit/research-topics/running-your-business/asset-strategies/different-lien-types-provide-creditors-with-different-rights |
Something worth > 50K is worth a lawyer’s time to try and collect. Sorry, you’re in this situation. Here is some free legal advice. Forget about district attorneys and Attorneys General. They will not give a hoot about this case It took awhile but finally there is good advice in this thread! Yep, it’s small claims if anything. Sorry to the OP but dealing with very small companies carries extra risk--that they will vanish. I once had a case around $12K in value and no lawyer would touch it without a 10K retainer. They actually said my case was good but judges seldom award attorneys' fees. |
I am an attorney. Here is some free legal advice. Forget about district attorneys and Attorneys General. They will not give a hoot about this case, unless possibly they have many complaints coming in such that it appears to be a scam. And even then, it is difficult to get them interested. My recommendation is to file a small claims case for breach of contract and conversion in your state and then serve the complaint on the company. Small Claims court generally handles cases involving $10K or less (varies from state to state), and is designed for people to represent themselves. In fact, in California, people are precluded from having attorneys in court with them for Small Claims cases. That will likely get their attention, and if it does not, you'll get a judgment by default for $5,000 plus costs. Name the guy personally as well as the company and you can record the lien on his house. THAT will most definitely get his attention. |
I knew Paul personally, been to my former home multiple times. I miss him, just simply one of the greatest in Audio, he confided in me about what made his amps sound special and no, I will never tell it :) I suspect the people claiming to be TRL are liars and scammers. Paul was TRL! I am am sorry for your ordeal. |
No disrespect to the OP but stalking someone's home just based on a post/story on internet is irresponsible. I think we all got the message and I doubt anyone will be buying any gear from this vendor since they appear to be out of business. I suggest the OP do his homework and delete this thread. It has run its course. |
Well to add to the intrigue it appears that the website I referenced earlier is currently down for maintenance: http://tuberesearchlab.com/ |
I would take the offer jpdhouston and see what he can find out for you. I would also send a certified letter to the address and request a signed returned receipt to see if anything gets returned. For all of you with issues like this, you can contact me to help with repairs, modifications, etc. I am in New Jersey. Happy Listening. |
The website was the first thing I thought of, as I’ve heard of scammers hunting for non-renewed domain names, grabbing them after a easy bit of research and assuming the identity for scamming purposes. If family members do not think of tying up loose ends like this it can easily happen. i wonder if that’s the case here. And what with an ‘audio company’ that doesnt list an address on their site. |
This is the main reason I no longer go to small one or two man operations for my audio. I owned 3 AI tube preamps but once I heard that the owner of the company was semi retired, I moved on to something else. All my audio is from big companies like McIntosh, Esoteric, Technics GE, and Sony. At the very least, if someone dies, the show still goes on. Hopefully I will never be in the OP shoes. |
Thanks Guys. The Amp was more sentimental than anything because it was from Paul. I don't like it when someone takes advantage of a situation. I will make some calls to the local Authorities. Maybe I'll take a 3 day trip from Seattle to Houston. Rent a car and go to address it was shipped and see if Anyone is there? Thanks again Guys Kim |
in addition to contacting that state's attorney, I would immeidately contatc the local authorities and initiate a legal action for fraud with the county or city police departments, respectively. or both! this seems the first thing to do. you have an address, and formerly phone numbers you can provide the cops along with more information. as it is as well inter state commerce perhaps in addition, there are Federal offices for fraud you could contact. I do recall a member here that had sent along his amps to a similarly abruptly vacated enterprise, i.e., Thor Audio, for upgrading purposes. reaching out to the local cops there resulted in him getting back one or maybe both of his mono blocks as he had their full description, serial #, and shipping information, receipts etc. there was possibly more to that affair but the above info was conveyed to me by the person whose gear was made unavilable by the abrupt unannounced departure of Paul Marks. GVery sorry to hear of this issue. it is the single yet remarkably devastating concern enthusiasts face with a cottage industry manufacturer. whose infrastructure is severely limited. ood luck. |
Know anyone in the local area where you shipped the amp? be nice to knock on their door and at least try to recover your amp in person. Maybe there is a fellow Agon'er here who lives in the area who could take a stroll by. Is it considered theft if they don't give it back to you? may have better luck with the police if you can support a theft-fraud accusation. |
I don't know how much your piece of gear is worth but if under 10K ( I saw your insurance comment), there won't be many lawyers who will handle this and you'd end up with almost nothing after fees and costs; assuming you get a judgement in your favor. If you file in small claims court and get a judgement then you still have to collect; the Court won't be a collector. I have no idea how much your equipment is worth. Something worth > 50K is worth a lawyer's time to try and collect. Sorry, you're in this situation. |
Now I just Googled Tube Research Labs and up pops a website that to me seems pretty suspect. The products referenced are mainly the older tube designs, none of the very popular solid state (Samson) or tube preamp (Dude) pieces. I really have to wonder who comprises this dedicated group of audiophiles and audio design engineers that are supposedly keeping Paul's legacy alive. While it may or may not have any significance, it's perhaps noteworthy that Paul's original website was at tuberesearchlabs.com, while the present site is tuberesearchlab.com (without the "s" after "lab"). I did some checking and it appears that the original url expired and became inactive sometime in the last quarter of 2017, a bit less than two years after Paul passed away. And the present url was registered on 12-18-2017. As I said, that **might** not be of any significance. But it just adds to the suspicions Clio09 cited. To the OP, best of luck as you proceed, and thanks for calling this matter to our attention. Regards, -- Al |
Personal attorneys are too expensive to employ, as a rule, in cases of moderate financial damages fraud. I know a $5K loss is not moderate to many- if not most of us. We also invest our hearts and souls into our systems and often pay a premium budget wise, for our gear compared to other things we own. It is a real tragedy that it costs so much to sue in this country . Your best hope may well lie in the state Atty. General as suggested . I hope you succeed! |
I was a TRL owner in the past when it was just Paul and his brother Brian working together. I had modifications done to digital gear and owned both a solid state preamp and amplifier. Paul was one of the good guys in audio throughout his time and after his passing I assumed the business would not, or more appropriately could not continue. It is a risk one takes when you do business with a shop where the IP rests mainly in one persons head. Now I just Googled Tube Research Labs and up pops a website that to me seems pretty suspect. The products referenced are mainly the older tube designs, none of the very popular solid state (Samson) or tube preamp (Dude) pieces. I really have to wonder who comprises this dedicated group of audiophiles and audio design engineers that are supposedly keeping Paul's legacy alive. After all, Paul's designs were unique in many respects and sometimes just plain out there, but the end result was usually outstanding in terms of sound reproduction. I hope you get this resolved, but unfortunately you probably have a long road ahead. While legal action may result in victory on paper in the form of a judgement, actually collecting on the judgement is another matter altogether. |
