Tube Power Amp Suggestions

Big fish,
In your original post you seemed attracted to the tone, nuance and 3 dimensional qualities of the 300b. I’ve heard the Soulution amplifiers on several occasions and it quite a different sound from a good 300b amplifier. You may like the Soulution as much or even more than the 300b. Just know they’re different. I hope you’re able to audition the Soulution. As I had earlier posted,  a 211, 845 or 805 tubed SET or push pull amplifier would likely be a good compromise given the sonic character you seek.
Charles

Yup, take your time. It is possible, by the way, to get better bass from tubes. 300B and EL34 amps are known for being a bit rounded off in the bottom end. Better bass can be had from other tubes. The KT-?? family of tubes will normally put out better bass than EL34s, and in the SET world, 845 amps will normally do better down there than 300Bs. Do you happen to know  of Richard Austen, a reviewer for Dagogo. He also lives in Hong Kong and perhaps he could give you some tips on where to get good service. He often posts on the Canuck Audio Mart forums (I think he's a Canadian), so perhaps you could get in touch with him through there. Just an idea.
http://www.dagogo.com/staff
Here's a thread he started on CAM:
http://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45014

Sorry I have not made up my mind yet. Still using my same old 300B. Now I am also considering solid-state for better bass and control. Interested in Nagra Classic Amp. Heard some very goods comments on forums. A user even matches it with Rockport speaker and was impressed! But a friend told me he's not impressed after he saw the components inside the amp. I am even considering Soulution...   
   
I am worried about making the wrong decision. Home audition seems impossible in Hong Kong.   
   
Thank you all for your comments and help indeed. I will sure let you all know If I buy a new amp. 

@bigdish So what did you end up doing? Cheers,
Spencer

I am interested to see that the Linear Tube Audio ZOTL 40 got the same glowing recommendation in this thread that I've read in other Audiogon discussions. Because of forum comments and a recent review, I took an opportunity to try out this amp at home. Mid range clarity was impressive, but with my 91dB, 8 ohm Devore floorstanders, the soundstage was smaller and it sounded less dynamic & engaging than other conventional P-P tube amps such as the Leben CS1000P. I have read some of the other suggestions here with interest. Have you made s decision?

I would highly recommend you have a look at Don Sachs' custom KT88 amplifier, which at ~$2500 is SOTA and might only better bettered by spending 4X as much.  It is a brilliant design, based on the many years that Don has spent upgrading HK Citation gear.  I suggest you Google him at "Don Sachs Consulting" and inform yourself of his 70 wpc tube amp that will go to head to head with the best tube amps available.  I have his third generation 6SN7-powered preamp and it is by far the best that I have ever heard in my system, no question about it.   

wolf

If the  ARC Ref 75 was called the ARC 75, omitting the " ref " would it sound anywhere as good? 

Soundrealaudio I could not agree more. My exact experience over the past 35 years. 

knghifi

The reason I usually prefer smaller names is simple. Many sound much better. Plus you are purchasing from a smaller company that is in many cases owned and run by an individual who is passionate about what they do, about the music about the products they produce. Larger companies are driven more by the profit motive. Not necessarily a bad thing but know that there are more hands dipping into the pie. They spend money on advertising, marketing

Secondly my experience has been the smaller companies are more committed to servicing their customers. Better service. They have fewer customers and each one is more important to them and is usually the best form of advertising. Word of mouth. 

Look at a used VAC great sound wonderful co Kevin Hayes is honest makes a great amp.

hi bigdish,
70 watts seem a bit too much for your drivers, but higher wattage and power reserv is always good in any case, whether to escape distortion level or to provide for future speaker upgrades. 
So, if you insist with 70W, I do not hesitate a second to very highly recommend the Coincident Dragon MkII. I own them and have paired them with several speakers, the results are all just great, if not absolutely wonderful. They are 211 tubes push pull, DHT mono amps, have tremendous power, deep powerful bass, full resolution, dynamic, notes are to die for. Really a winner. But please note: use the right preamp (good quality SS with high current capacity and low output impedance). Use the WE211 tubes from Psvane, they make a big difference, and finally and not the least, they need lots of break-in. If you're not happy with these, i'll stop making these notes...!

After trying EAR, CAT and ARC I landed on Octave.  The MRE 220's with SBB.  They are stellar and everyone in our local audio group rave about them.

Hello Ralph, 
As always your comments are technically sound  and logical.  The problem is just as you acknowledged.  The old outdated technology  (tubes) just refuse to fade away.  For many listeners they just as you say sound more natural and thus more emotionally involving.  That's very difficult to ignore 😊.
Charles 

@bigdish if you really plan to keep with those speakers, the problem you are up against is that the speakers are designed for an amp than can act like a voltage source. Most of the amps suggest so far (including ours) are Power sources.

The difference will be on this speaker that a power source will play the woofer section 3 db down from where the designer intended.

There is a reason people are suggesting amps that behave as Power Sources though- in tube amps in particular, they tend to sound more natural.

More here:
http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Paradigms_in_Amplifier_Design.php

You don't really need that much tube power to drive 91db speakers.
50 watts in tube give almost double compared to the solid state.  I bought a 50 watts (in push-pull) Manley Stingray about 16 years or so
(the cost then was far below 10k). It drives excellent 86db Thiel 3.6 (with the recommended minimal amp power of 100 watts). I like this combination, the amp is quite good. Though  I can hear more distortion on it (compared to a solid state McIntosh, for instance), the sound is really  sweet  encouraging. It is quite compact and nicely looking. Only one year ago it needed some maintenance.  

Soundsrealaudio, 
Those are 3 really good examples.  Many good choices are in existence. 
The sector of low to moderate power tube amplifiers flourishes  with quality. 

There are certainly some very good options out there in that price range. I kind of avoid the ones that are mass marketed, the big names.

Why?  If similar SQ, I'll go big names.  Easier to get service than boutique in MOST circumstances.

There are certainly some very good options out there in that price range. I kind of avoid the ones that are mass marketed, the big names. So here are a few smaller companies. 

The deHavilland 50A. This is a forty watt mono block amplifier that uses KT 88's and runs in, and this is huge, they deliver those 40 watts in triode mode. Made in Washington state. Point to point wiring. 
http://www.dehavillandhifi.com

You might be interested in these beauties as well. The Melody PM 845. They use the wonderful sounding 845 tube, run in class A and put out 70 watts per channel. They come in from Taiwan.
http://angelcityaudio.com/products/melody-valve-hifi/

The Zesto Audio Bio Stereo amplifier. 40 really powerful watts, from the KT88's. Made in California. Class A. Good company.

http://www.zestoaudio.com/bia-120-poweramp/

If you consider @atmasphere 's kind comment that generously points away from his own products to something that fits your speakers better, perhaps Pass or First Watt single ended solid state like the old Aleph series would be a great fit. 
Another ss amp that many might laugh at my suggestion but has both current and voltage outputs is the Sunfire by Bob Carver. Punches above it's price, especially nowadays, and meets the technical requirements mentioned above.
Personally, I'd still bet that a 40-50w 845, 211 etc. might hold up fine. Cheers,
Spencer

This may not be a very popular response to the SET vs. 91db speaker question, but after trying many SET amps on my 94db Coincident speakers, and not finding the "SET magic" that I wanted, I bought a more efficient (96db Cessaro Chopin) speaker and kept my 8W SET mono's. Amazing what a 2db difference can make.

Matching speaker with amp, excellent!!!  Replacing Coincident with  Cessaro Chopin is NOT a fair fight :-)

This may not be a very popular response to the SET vs. 91db speaker question, but after trying many SET amps on my 94db Coincident speakers, and not finding the "SET magic" that I wanted, I bought a more efficient (96db Cessaro Chopin) speaker and kept my 8W SET mono's. Amazing what a 2db difference can make.  

Octave is a very good sounding push pull tube amplifier as is the Zesto,I've heard both. Generally speaking PP and SET are two different pathways to excellent sound in your home.  I own both types of amplifiers.  A listener has to determine what it is they are trying to achieve.  For my taste the SET is my favorite amplifier yet for others a PP would be their preference. The key is,  know what you "really "want. 
Charles 

Bigdish, I have been on a search similar to yours for several years. This year my wife sent me to Rocky Mountain Audio Fest with the mission to once and for all find us a tube amp. We wanted the tonal quality of the best tube amps with detail, strong tight bass and great imaging. We wanted accuracy with smoothness and coherence that would draw us in to listen for hours. Last year our favorite was Zesto audio mono blocks. But at $19,000, out of our budget. (They have a stereo amp for 12k list) We heard many fine tube amps this year but one kept drawing us back for repeat auditions; Octave Audio. We ended up buying the V110 SE with the Super Black box. The box is filled with capacitors which allows the amp to handle ANY speaker load. It’s not as euphoric as some tube amps but some tube rolling with 6550 tubes will get some of that. This thing has the dynamics of a solid state amp with great tube tonal quality and best of all, great bass.
I just had to drag my wife out of the listening room to have dinner.
After some haggling I got the 110 and the super black box for under your budget.
We have used the integrated amp with some 91db floor standers and 85 dB bookshelf speakers (LS50) , works great with both.
Octave also has stereo amps and mono blocks.
One thing that makes this, or any system really sing is a Master Set as done by Soundings Hifi in Denver. A Master Set will save you thousands spent on cables and other tweaks. It’s damn near magic what these guys can do.
Good luck in your search

Hi Bigdish,
I saw a fairly new company - Alexus Audio. I was able to check out the 833 it was very impressive. They also have a 33SE  that is within your price range. Definitely worth checking out as it possesses the same characteristics that you are looking for.   
www.alexusaudio.com 

That mastersound that mani 2 linked to would be my first choice!!

Bill (Grannyring),
I mentioned the Zero transformers based on their "theoretical " potential benefit. I’ve read comments from other users who had the same experience as you regarding the Zeroes. They did adversely affect the sound quality. I’m confident that a well built and implemented amplifier using 845, 805, 211 or the Russian 6c33c used as SET or PSET with 4 ohms taps will pair well with these speakers. The essential key is high quality power supply and output transformer as previously discussed . A few examples are  the Line Magnetic 219ia, 508ia or the Coincident turbo 845, also a used Viva Solista 845 SET. All of these are well within the stated price range.

Of course there are very viable options for push pull amplifiers, it really depends on the type of sound character Bigdish is seeking. He has a variety of good pathways to pursue.
Charles

Many thanks again for all your kind recommendations. I will try to have audition on as many of these amplifiers as possible.   
    

Thanks grannyring for your confirmation. :-)  

Charles is right about an 845 SET amp. That or parallel single ended 300b amps. 

Forgot to mention I did get more volume, but lost sound quality. 

I used a Zero and please know it does mess with the sound and in the end was not a good solution for me. It just introduces its own personality to the resulting sound. I used one with Atmasphere amps. 

Big dish,
The Zero transformer will allow your 13 watt SET amplifier to drive a higher impedance thus an easier load for it to drive. I use an 8 watt SET amplifier driving 14 ohm load speakers and it’s an ideal match.

I believe that in your case a 845 SET with a very good power supply and quality output transformer with 4 ohms speaker taps would be sucessful for your desire to have excellent SET performance.
Charles

Big dish,

I would call Mark at LTA for advice. He's a great guy.

Thank you all for your recommendations。

Hi Lancelock, many thanks for your insight。Do you think having this zero impedance product connecting my 13w 300b amplifer and speakers will work well? 
   
I am a bit worried it would somewhat degrade the sound quality. Unfortunately I am not able to redesign the crossover。 

I have come to the end of the road in my amp quest. I suggest the David Berning designed ZOTL40 made by Linear Tube Audio. It beats everything I've ever heard. I also am a Decware fan and I own his flagship ZMA. It sounds broken next to the ZOTL40. He has a trial deal so you can send it back but I'll bet the farm you'll keep it.

http://hometheaterreview.com/linear-tube-audio-zotl40-mkii-amplifier-reviewed/

Its impedance is rather flat at 6 ohm.

They are not very easy to drive IMO.

Its easy to see why when you look at the pdf. The speaker has 4 ohm impedance in the bass frequencies and rises to the 8 ohm impedance of the Festerex at 550Hz. I would call this a 4 ohm speaker and no mistake. Its not what I would call 6 ohms. The design suggests an amplifier with ’voltage source’ characteristics should be used, which means that most of the amps suggested so far won’t sound right on this speaker without the help of a set of ZEROs (www.zeroimpedance.com).

The kind of amp needed to drive this will be a tube amp with lots of feedback or a solid state amp. However, you can assume from many of the posts here that most of the people on this thread prefer amps with little or no feedback.

If you wanted this speaker to work easily with a tube amp, the best solution would be to put the woofers in series and redesign the crossover (creating a 16 ohm loudspeaker). I expect the Festerex is considerably more efficient than the woofers; its likely that after such redesign the speaker would also be more efficient.

Einstein Final Cut - Probably one of the (if not the very) best mid power amps ever made

Second the Decware. Call Steve Deckert.  

Due to both its stature and its sonic reputation, something like the Line Magnetic 219IA could easily be a long term solution. There's a guy in VA selling one: http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649312691-line-magnetic-219ia/

See the Dagogo review: http://www.dagogo.com/line-magnetic-219ia-integrated-amplifier-review

Bigdish,
I'm pretty much on the same search.  I currently have an el34 integrated that I like better in ultralinear than triode, and my speakers are fairly custom and around 91db efficient.  I think I mainly needed the extra power of ultralinear.  I want the new amp to be my one and last great amplifier.

I've narrowed my list down to a BAT 75SE, used REX (some say it's dark), Audio Research 75se, Mc275 series 6, or just pump extra money into the new VAC 200iq.  I want that dynamic, liquid sound of a greal tube amp, and hope I can drive it strait from a Benchmark Dac2 HGC.

I'll be interested in the suggestions and your decision, and will share anything I discover.

Big dish,
I bet yours is a very good sounding speaker (Feastrex driver!) and if it’s truly a flat 6 ohm load that shouldn’t be a difficult load to drive. 50 watts is the recommended maximum amplifier power. It seems to me that a good quality 845 (or an 805) would be an excellent choice if you want to go SET. For your budget (new/used) you have ample options.
Charles

They are not very easy to drive IMO.  Meanwhile I have ordered a pair of fullrange bookshelf cabinets to try out using just the Feastrex drivers without the support of Satori and crossover to see how it works. I had auditioned once the feastrex alone in the dealers' room and the bass was simply not enough, but I just want to try in my system to see, as the cabinets only cost about 200 dollars. 

Thank you so very much for your recommendations. My speakers are bookshelf and were custom made by franz hinterlehner from elodis subwoofer, with a Feastrex fullrange driver supplemented by two Satori bass drivers in each cabinet. Its impedance is rather flat at 6 ohm. You could download the pdf to get more information:  
  
http://www.elodis-subwoofer.com/files/Brochure-ELODIS-VOCALITAS-MACHINA-CLENODIUM.pdf

For $10K I will build you any type amp you want.!  I am talking customer point-to-point wired with better parts than anything you can buy.

Happy Listening.

You should call Steve Deckert at Decware...he has what your looking for and at the right price!!

Inquiries regarding the  speakers have been made several times. This is obviously important when trying to successfully match with a power amplifier.

@bigdish You say your speakers are 91 db; do you know the impedance? What speakers are they?

In the 6C33C camp, I love my Audio Mirror 45 Watt SET mono blocks. New cost way under your budget. Drive my 87dB speakers very well, and the sound is glorious. Money left over for tubes and power cords.

CAT JL-2 should be on your short list