What I really hate about some music
When I listen to music, there are four things that I really bothers me and was wondering if there are others who feel the same way about songs just as strongly as I do. I don't like feeling this way but when I hear these things, I just want to turn the music off and I'm not sure why the song writer doesn't realize he probably has a dud and not a hit. Here they are:
1. When a song writer finds a catchy phrase and the singer repeats the line three times in a row and then a stanza later, here it comes again repeated all three times and this just keeps going on and on.
2. Very similar to the above, a writer writes a real good line of music and then makes the whole song a repeat or variation of this line of music and has no imagination to add a little something in-between.
3. Singers who can't really sing well and think they can but get such really great score of music behind them that if a really good singer sang the song it would be wonderful to listen to. Please understand that carrying a tune to me doesn't make a good singer and I'm not talking about karoke singers here either.
4. Rhyming in a melody.... Please you can predict what the next line of the song is going to be before it is sang because it rhymes with the last line just sang...
Hi, I hope these notes are helpful: RE; #1, that "catchy phrase" is called a "hook" and it's considered essential to pop music and some Jazz. Pop music is not really expected to heard by an audiophile studiously listening to an exalted system, but expected to be played in noisy, distracting places. Places like cars, businesses, restaurants, bars, and places where people may be distracted. "Milking the Hook," or repeatedly employing it in an arrangement, is a method of trying to break into a listener's attention so that they may add it to their streaming playlist or possibly buy a copy. RE: #2 This would refer to a musical hook, which might be similar to variations on a theme in classical music, except in pop music it probably won't vary. RE: #3 I have nothing to offer for this one. RE: #4 Just a poetic style that in pop music helps capture an audience. Not trying to be snarky and i hope this helps. |
when I hit sheets at night, I have my airpod on shuffle all night, napalm death, satyricon, overkill, GBH, TANK, anthem, living death, deicide, wargasm,…..you get the point. Some of my first 8 tracks I had was UFO, Styx, kiss, Judas Priest -sad wings n cassette, which I bought with my money earned from cutting grass as a kid. I can understand totally, most don’t like the sheer wall of sound from metal.
I also had a great base for music, listening to my parents old blues records, beach boys, Donovan, etc etc I can enjoy quite a lot of music from time to time your comment reminded of my wife, she will purposely stay up, just to “diarrhea nag” which is the worst. I totally get it, \,,/ hell, on the way home from most metal concerts, my buddy and I will play Floyd, thin Lizzy, Beatles, ,… after 2 hours of 135DB music, we need to relax, go home, shower, etc, before I hit the sheets, iPod is plugged in and shuffle is pressed just before head hits pillow.Thrash was my era, early Motörhead, mercyful fate, loudness, raven, venom, a lot of the NWOBHM, I also love Waylon and willie, UFO, travers, strawberry alarm clock, select few G dead albums, Melanie, as this was my selection as a young rocker,
my godson, I have corrupted, when we go to the park, or get ice cream, I play what he should like, Hendrix, Gary Moore, Boston s/t and he LOVES Steve Wonder, which I think is great, his parents are nothing but top 40 hop hip tripe, rap, garbage.
had to spew . Y’all have a great weekend |
I suppose for every generalization I can make there are exceptions. Example being repetition not good, plenty of songs I like repeat lyrics, time signatures, melody. Poor voices, is Neil really bad singer if he moves you with his voice? Genres and era of music, I'm all over the place with this.
For serious listening sessions on home stereo I no longer have to experience music I hate, streaming allows only listening to tracks that please.
Having said that, I still occasionally have to suffer listening to music I don't particularly enjoy. Just last night I had to listen to five or six hours constant rotation of mid 70's through early 90's commercial/arena/headbanger/metal rock, this blasting through garage stereo system at extremely high volume level. What bothered me most about this wasn't any particular qualities or lack of qualities from any individual song, rather it was from the feeling or mood this music evoked in me.
The moods or feeling music evokes in us may be perhaps most telling in why we hate any particular song or genre of music, says far more about us than the songwriter, performance. |
@frogman when you are older and have heard so many great and wonder songs, you know what a well written song, great singer, or musician can do for music and selfishly want to hear that every time.... Remember when Mic Jagger tried to separate from Keith Richards? He failed because a wonderful singer lost a great musician and it wasn't the same. We have a tendency to want to ignore the nonsense. Is it being narcissistic and self centered ... maybe but I know what I like which is a lot. |
We like what we like and we could leave it at that… depending on what level of involvement with the music we each want. However, to approach listening to music (or any art) with preconceived and rigid ideas about what aspects (repetition, rhyming) of music we like or don’t like is extremely limiting and stifles our growth as listeners; and, no disrespect intended, belies a rather simplistic (some might say sophomoric) appreciation of the art. Repetition can be a valid and very effective compositional tool. Sure, we may not like specific songs (or works) that don’t employ that compositional technique or another in an effective way; but, the judgment of the validity of that technique needs to be in the context of the total of the compositional parts….the complete work. This idea applies to any music, from Pop songs to Classical works. Are we to dismiss a great composition such as Beethoven’s Symphony No. 5 because of its constantly repeated opening tune (motif)? https://www.bsomusic.org/stories/the-power-of-musical-repetition/ |
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"When one says Neil Young can “barely hold a tune,” and has “no vocal range,” it makes me wonder if they’ve ever heard Neil Young before." My comments were made to illustrate a point and sound a bit harsh in retrospect. Believe me, I have loved Neil Young since I first heard "For What It's Worth" back in 1967. I was just trying to say that it's a singer's passion and soul that make the connection with the listener, not just a pretty voice.
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@tony1954 When one says Neil Young can “barely hold a tune,” and has “no vocal range,” it makes me wonder if they’ve ever heard Neil Young before. I’m a huge fan, from his best songs with Buffalo Springfield to today, and, funnily enough, I’ve been scouring YouTube these last few days for live Neil Young performances, just for fun. This charge could be legitimately leveled at, say, Bryan Ferry or Ian Curtis (to name a couple off the top of my head) but not Neil. Range is not an issue for Neil either. He’s comfortable in a lower register on a song like “Motion Pictures,” and, just the other day, I was shocked as to his ability to hit that high A note on the chorus of “Old Man” in a live performance. Not sure if you’ve ever tried to sing that chorus without resorting to falsetto. Suffice to say, many cannot. A 67-year old Neil Young sang Old Man (original key of D, no detuned guitar to help hit those notes) at Farm Aid in 2013. Unsurprisingly, those notes were a tad difficult for him at that age, but even at 67, after almost 50 years of touring, he acquitted himself nicely as a wide-range vocalist for those lucky audience members. |
For the most part I agree with your assessment, but if I could be so bold as to add another peeve to the list. 5. Songs that have absolutely nothing to say. Songs where the lyrics have no emotional or intellectual content whatsoever. If I disagree with anything it might be your reference to "Singers who can't really sing". This might be an interesting topic on it's own, but some of my favourite singers aren't good singers. Case in point, Neil Young. He has no vocal range and can barely hold a tune, but it doesn't matter to me at all. The strength of his writing and the sheer emotion of his vocals make the other deficiencies irrelevant. |
Excellent points @tylermunns. Hank Williams' "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" and "I'll Never Get Out Of This World Alive" still hold up as timeless truths 75 years after having been written and recorded. I learned of singer/songwriter Iris Dement from Merle Haggard, who recorded her devastatingly-great "No Time To Cry", raving about her songwriting talent. |
Not sure how many people here have actually written or attempted to write a song, but one may be surprised how difficult it is to write a “simple” song. Simplicity often overlaps with vulnerability. It can be (certainly not always) a daunting proposition to present a simple, emotionally vulnerable song to an audience, be it a record-listener or a live audience. It’s quite a comfortable place to be to issue dense, obtuse lyrics or music to an audience. As someone who’s written songs that others have called, “obtuse” or “intelligent,” or “sophisticated,” and as someone who’s performed live some 1000 times in his life, I can say the very simple songs (be it musically or lyrically) are the most daunting, because it’s so much easier and more comfortable to lean bank on “complexity.” The ones that get my teeth chattering are the super-simple, vulnerable ones. Tons of songwriters, from Elton John to Billy Joe Shaver, have spoken of the challenges of writing simple songs. |
The Yes, some really good examples of annoying music. One that realky an wl women seem to like, is Billy Ray Cyrus’ “Achy Breaky Heart”. I only heart it sometimes on radio and it irks me every time. Talk about lazy song-writing! Then there is Michael Jackson’s “Bad” that he repeats and repeats. Andy Rooney on “Sixty Minutes” did a piece about how bad “Bad” is. 😊 People mentioned “Don’t Worry, Be Happy”, which I agree is annoying. A similar song is Pharrell Williams’ “I’m Happy”. OK, a catchy tune the first few times you hear it but after that I started making up my own lyrics (“ Because life’s crappy,”) |
Repetition doesn’t bother me in the least. There’s more than one way to skin a cat. No one here seems to be lamenting I-IV-V chord progressions or the I-VI-IV-V chord progressions or the several chord progressions we’ve heard a trillion times over, countless songs that not only regurgitate those beyond-cliched chord progressions but base their entire songs, start-to-finish, on this primitive sequence. I like Hank Williams just as much as I like Trout Mask Replica, just for different reasons. Lyrically, not everybody can be Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen. Not every song’s value is based exclusively on either the lyrics or exclusively the music. If I song’s music is satisfying, I don’t care if they say the same thing over and over again. |
Ah yes, the fake sunshine message, you know its fake because they have to repeat, repeat, repeat. Real sunshine comes through with subtle reference to nice and beautiful things.
Repetition comes from lazy writing, attempts to get hit record, hit one over the head with message. It all works in reverse for me, I rebel against message.
You’re not the only one, but unfortunately we’re in the tiny minority. Trite like Don’t Worry, Be Happy often sells in the millions by catering to an audience who simply don’t have the time or energy to focus on much past the song title, or its cynically exploitative intent. It’s probably just as well too if you catch some of the lyrics that even young children are sometimes being exposed to nowadays, especially in popular dance hits. Bruce Springsteen’s Born in the USA was far from trite, but nevertheless it was arguably another misconstrued megahit record.
On the other hand, perhaps we’re just being pedantic in typical audiophile style? Perhaps there’s a case for the listener interpreting music in any way they want to? Fair enough, just as long as they don’t do it in public. |
Ah yes, the fake sunshine message, you know its fake because they have to repeat, repeat, repeat. Real sunshine comes through with subtle reference to nice and beautiful things.
Repetition comes from lazy writing, attempts to get hit record, hit one over the head with message. It all works in reverse for me, I rebel against message. |
@emrofsemanon I find that track tedious as all hell. I wouldn’t hold the “I knows” necessarily responsible, though. I just didn’t find it a remotely interesting or satisfying song the first time, let alone the 756,921st time. The fact that every no-talent hack on Earth seems to cover it with the same ubiquity as it’s presence on FM radio for 50 years doesn’t help, either. |
@moonwatcher Uh, man, amen. I’ll raise ya with a ANY USE OF AUTOTUNE. It’s never once made anything better, only demonstrably worse. |
@frankmc195 - that does sound more like a band name, as well as being the road in central London famous for the bookshops there. I'll still check 'em out... I live in San Francisco, and I do not like 'I Left My Heart In San Francisco' 🤣🤣 To me, it's maudlin pap (even when sung by the great Tony Bennett), which SF most certainly isn't. Right down there with 'Lights' by Journey. I prefer the more lusty 'San Francisco, Open Your Golden Gate' - that song sounds like a party! |
You wanted me to give examples of some songs.... Try Cee Lo Green singing "I can't go for that" and from Lounge Cafe "I left my heart in San Francisco". You should make your own decision from which group I place these in.... are they great or are they terrible, you decide. No one could say anything bad about the lyrics and that is why I chose them. |
While I agree lyrics are important - and bad lyrics can quickly ruin an otherwise excellent song - keep in mind most rules are made to be broken. Listen to CAN and tell me what you think of repetitive lyrics. Also, 12 bar blues is a structure and sometimes - especially old blues songs - they just followed the structure in the lyrics. Root x 4, root, 4th, root x 2, 4th, 5th, root x 2. That sort of thing. |
What no english majors on here.... I misspelled northern.... Unfortunately I can't find Headed south on the Northern lights anywhere.... don't know where I bought it at... not on Qobuz or Spotify... sorry everyone. If any of you do, let people know. I just recently heard it on Rose audio's internet radio. |
@frankmc195 - thank you for the recommendation - that IS a cool name; I shall check it out!! |
larsman speaking of indie music, I hope you have had the pleasure of hearing "Headed south on the Northan Lights" (what a cool name) "Rosetta Cafe" "What will I do" " What am I waiting for" "A beautiful Vulnerability" "Tell me that story"... all of which are great ones and many more. OMG I forgot to add the absolute worse thing that I hate about some music and that is heavy drums though out a song that only gives you a headache and not listening pleasure... I'm not talking about the drums from early rock but todays added beats that are added by the producer. |
If those are the rules they are made to be broken by a skilled individual. The late Jim Steinman was such a one. |
@frankmc195 - Definitely agree, though I'm 71 and an exception there, as I never much liked jazz when I was younger and I still don't. Ironically enough, I was really into blues as a teenager but lost my interest as I got older and into my 20's. I am very badly behind on catching up with new music as the publication I used to depend on for info went bust a few years ago, but I mostly like indie rock, reggae, some metal and some regular pop and rock (and the Grateful Dead!), but I don't stray much past that.... |
@rar1 - "That's alls I can stands and I can't stands no more!".... 😁 |
Hi Frank - I think you will find that most of the responders here are in the same age range, give or take, as yourself. So, no surprise that anyone's tastes, myself included, may have changed or matured over the last 50 or 60 years. I own a lot (and I mean a lot) of recorded music and what I have found with my own listening is that if the music catches me, I may not notice the lyrics until after several listens or if I force myself to read a lyric sheet. Music does have to grab me though. As for repeated phrases, if I like the music it doesn't bother me, if I don't like the music, then it becomes another reason to dislike it. Your third point quite frankly makes me go ... 'meh.' So, a better singer might do a better job of a song, than a not so good singer. Just that the not so good singer may have a bigger ego or higher estimation of their singing abilities or better production. Like American Idol's practice of the top two season finalists singing the same song (A Moment Like This) and you wonder why anyone would vote for Justin Guarini over Kelly Clarkson? How long did that last? Admittedly, I don't like lazy songwriting. I like clever wordplay ('How Can I Be Sure'). Creative is good too ('Don't Think Twice, It's Alright' comes to mind, then again most anything by Dylan). Doesn't always have to make intuitive sense to be good ('While My Guitar Gently Weeps'). Can be fun ('All That Meat and No Potatoes'). I do tire of songs that don't tell a good story or make a point or make my head hurt (anything that J Lo sings, has ever sung, our ever will sing). Could be they just don't write them like they used to. Or as Popeye might say ... I know what I can stand and I can't stands no more. Life is too short. What do I know anyways? Rich
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After posting the above I want you to understand that I'm not one dimensional and music by Pink Floyd, Alan Parsons, Cowboy Junkies, 70's music, Smashing Pumpkins Revolution (no I'm not a revolutionary), Jimi Hendrix, Chris Isaak, and many more are all the things I enjoy. Anything that is enjoyable to listen too and doesn't make you want to drive off a cliff when you hear it. |