So often I find myself resenting the fact that there are only so many hours to listen to HiFi
That's why they invented whole house audio. I have systems all around the house of various types and brands using the DTS Play-Fi ecosystem, works for me:
Who has the Sickness, the Phile or the Non-phile?
So often I find myself resenting the fact that there are only so many hours to listen to HiFi and I think of those that don't hold this resentment.
I used to think anyone who wasn't obsessive simply lacked exposure, but even though I have introduced many, I have discovered no takers.
At audiophile club meeting it seems to me that the attendees are mostly gear-heads and posers; they say "Ooo & Ahhhh" to anything presented and you can see 1 or 2, maybe 3 in the seats nonchalantly looking over in the direction of the ooo-ers and Ahhh-ers; those few get it. And before anyone is defensive because they know, lashes out that I'm this or that....I don't care. These are obviously my opinions and I'm looking for the opinions of others On The Question At Hand and not whether or not I am a deluded self important snob.
So, if it is not a lack of exposure, is it a lack of ability?
Surely we are all different, short, tall, smart, obtuse, near sighted, far sighted. Are the ears and or the brains of an audiophile just wired differently than others? Can non audiophiles just not hear what we hear?
Was it childhood exposure that caused this difference in wiring? My father had Altec Voice of the Theater horns and the accompanying gear. Was that it, being exposed to HIFi during brain development? My daughter gets it and boy was she pissed when I sold my VPI TT. I never got along with my father, but was he responsible for my affliction by introducing me to superior sound as an infant?
And, who are the sick ones, the philes or the non-philes?
TD
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For me it was a financial issue. Most of my life I couldn’t save two nickels. Then somehow I saved enough for the Kef q150 half off sale. That seamed to be the catalyst, I was off and running. Sometimes I am obsessed getting the next black box. Get kidded about it, even had to stop so I could go see the gkids. I will disagree on this is a sickness, cause no disease 🦠 makes one feel so joyous. |
I love music ... I prefer a good sound than a bad sound with the same music... I decided to create my own audiophile experience... I studied and experimented with acoustic after buying a basic good system... I succeeded ... I lost my acoustic room... One year ago... I decided to try to create an headphone system , if different , as satisfying as my speakers/room.. I succeeded... I never LISTEN TO THE GEAR first and last ... I listen to acoustic first and last and learned how to listen in the process...... Thats my secret to reach ectasy... i am a music lover and not really an audiophile anymore because i succeeded ... Obsession with the gear reflect often ignorance of acoustic and the way to control the soundfield in a room...
To answer your question half of audiophiles are neurotic collectors, and half of non audiophiles dont love the music enough to move their ass to improve the sound quality... life is complex sorry... There is no smplistic answer to your question ... Even my answer is simplistic... 😊 |
The love of music comes first. Then comes audio. One must be careful, especially if by nature they are anal or compulsive, otherwise ’audio’ takes over and music just becomes a means to explore audio. They no longer really listen to the music, they listen to their system. They are the real losers I think, as compared to those who love music but never get into the audio aspect. Most music lovers that I know have simple home systems that folks here would laugh at, but they know their music, they just don’t understand or care about ’stereo’ and all its artifacts. They are happy and not neurotic, to be envied I think. :-) |
I don't see it as a difference between audiophiles and non. I see it as a difference between people who feel music is a very important part of their life and the others who don't really think about it. The quality of the system is secondary. Sure it's great to have a killer rig, but in the end, it's more about having music around you. As I type this, I'm in the kitchen making Sunday dinner for the family. My trusty Ipod in my Bose Docking Station. The big rig comes on after dinner, but for now..... I have music around me. The Crusaders "Chain Reaction" |
While liking music is nearly universal, the importance of fidelity varies from completely unimportant to passionate. I knew a guy that loved music… worked in a record store so he could listen, be exposed and collect more music. He had a portable phonograph with a speaker in it… red and white case… all plastic. He cherished each tune… for the music. No interest in fidelity what so ever.
Then take women. All like music for all practical purposes zero are audiophiles. Some folks are fanatics on flashy cars… I could care less. It goes on and on.
I don’t know what the percentage of audiophiles is… but it is far far less than 1% of the population. Trying to convert people is a waste of time. I would put a bit more time into understanding people. It will serve you well in life. They are highly diverse and largely irrational. Enjoy your pursuit of high end audio. For most of us it is a completely solitary pursuit. Most of my fifty year history, outside of dealers and a couple close friends, no one even knew I was one… or ever saw or listened to my system. It’s mine, ALL MINE!
+1 Really well put… but too understated… the world is shades of gray on every level on nearly every issue. We live in a completely gray world… only the young, crazy and fanatic think there is any such thing as black or white. |
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I’m lucky to have tin ears. My system sounds good to me, but my suv system does too… and my Bluetooth speaker. I’ll basically eat anything, too. So don’t cry if you burn the pork chops, I think charcoal is good for my complexion. Sometimes I burn her food, we trade off. Hope everybody’s having relaxing Sunday! Fun thread!
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@kota1 I am glad you have hope for me. I would hate to think I am hopeless. |
@ghdprentice ....Hopeless? Nahh....Hapless? Aren't we all.... ;) Best time-waster I've run into, short of skirt pursuits which finally ended...*L* Spent the weekend with both sorts of 'philes at the PE speaker competition, mostly as a 'spy'...that, and the garage sale.... Beat hangin' @ home, anyhow... |
An Audiophile is a lover of Audio. The music they use is to facilitate the search for perfect sound. A lover of music is a Melomaniac.
So, if you love music but audio purity is neither your passion nor goal, then you are not an Audiophile, you are a Melomaniac.
And I am talking here about Audiophiles. No offense to anyone who misunderstood my question.
T |
It is just a hobby, that's all. People with more disposable income can indulge more, but at the end of the day it is a niche hobby. Like most here I have others. some chase the last 1 1/10 of 1 percent, other find their nirvana as bail on changing gear. There are many different takes on the hobby, not unlike car nuts (like me). |
To my surprise... my two best friends and son in law can care less about good quality sound....My two friends run Karaoke on a regular basis and my son in law says he isn't interested in that audiophile stuff. They all really like the sound of my system for the clarity but not interested in having a system themselves. I can't understand it. To be fair I let my two friends listen to some cheap but very good speakers and they went out and bought them but they say they don't listen to music much at home. It made me realize that being an audiophile is relatively rare. |
It made me realize that being an audiophile is relatively rare. I understand, as 2 channel music hasn't changed in over 70 years. It started out as 3 channel, went to two channel and got stuck. The stalwarts will dig in and defend the beach but that war was basically lost after CD sales imploded. Welcome to the next level of "audiophile" where you have a screen in addition to your speakers. You system will playback both music and movies and check out the growth in the US:
and the global market? Fuhgeddaboudit:
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My son gave me a pair of B&O headphones he was not using, and I’m impressed at how great they sound. I’m sure the rabbit hole goes much deeper in fidelity, but it struck me at how comparatively easy it would be to achieve awesome sound and have no furniture hassles, room treatment, dedicated nothing, especially since I listen alone when I am listening most critically.
Growing up with little, I always dreamed of an expensive stereo, and other possessions that let others know I had made it, it just was not the road for me. These days my faith drives me to love others deeply, and myself less, and at this moment, I’m tearfully grateful I ended up here. Take my stuff, not my peace! I hope you all find peace with stereos and otherwise!
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I have found that the great majority of people from any walk of life are not appreciative of HI-FI sound or equipment. They invariably will say things like "that's nice", or "sounds good". I do not take is personally, the hobby is not that popular. And there is no converting people into audiophiles usually. |
That's very colorful language, but you're really not saying much. First, there is no "war." Trying to create a divide where none exists is just silly. Further, the world of two-channel audio has changed quite a bit over the decades. |
@cleeds +1 Mike |
First, there is no "war." Tell that to Virgin Record stores or Sam Goodies, wiped out and a distant memory of nostalgia:
Tell that to the brick and mortar "high end" audio stores, remember those? Who won the war you ask? Custom installation companies of "smart homes" where they not only will install a home theater, they’ll put kit in every room and you can just tell the system what to play (yes, I actually can do this)
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Most people like music , they are sensible to melody and rythm... They only perceive melody and rythm flowing and beating in TIME and in their body ... This melody or this beat affect them , anywhere when they listen to it again , on any type of system , most the times bad sound systems... it does not matter to them because the rythm and melody they like are RECOGNIZED AND FELT...
Some people love music so much they did not hear it only in TIME and in their body but in SPACE... They see it.. they like not only the RECOGNIZEABLE melody and the rythm but they hear and want to hear the "timbre" experience , they want to be "immersed" in the musical event , with all spatial dimensions of the sound, they wanted to be included in the music flows... ... It is the texture of the sound that affect them , and his disposition in space....Not a mere favorite set of recognized melodies and rythm...
Some people are obsessive compulsive in character they will set a goal and they will stay unsatisfied because their goal is not acoustical so much , as a goal related to the gear components themselves... They will appreciate any change in sound texture and dynamic , but without acoustic knowledge and more focusssed on the gear performance, they will upgrade without end.... Price, appearance, design specs, will matter more than the embeddings of the gear in his acoustical space...
Acoustic is the end line and starting line.... The gear piece are only tools in this acoustic journey...For me and for many others...
Is music more than melody and rythm ? Yes music is also an harmonic and acoustic phenomena .... Scriabin is not melodic , Shonberg is atonal, an indian raga obey other rules of tonalities and rythm, A didjeridoo cannot be listen to nor a gong in the same way a classical orchestra must be listen too or a Bob Dylan songs ...A small free jazz ensemble is not a set of german dance music with beers... There are audiophile using their improved sound experience who will explore world music , and they are those who are satisfied by which they had already recognized all their life and what they already know... They are many kind of audiophiles... For example , i dont give a damn about home theater because i dont listen much movies and anyway i am not very attracted to movie sound effects or movie music...Even with much money i would build an acoustic room for music but not a home theater... As you see they are many kind of audiophiles... Many more species than the main one i enumerated here... I was an audiophile for 10 years to realize my dream of a good sound system to serve my musical various appetites .... Acoustic had reveal to me the only road toward satisfaction , a hard road in learning how to hear and how to listen .... Now i use headphones , i am lucky , to have picked the right one after the lost of my dedicated room... I know which can be the only possible real upgrade for my system ... It cost many more than all my system.... Happily i am satisfied and i did not know if i will be able to upgrade or not but this does not matter anymore after reaching the minimal treshold of acoustic satisfaction... It is an acoustic treshold determined by objective factors not a price tag treshold determined by marketing...
Half musicians are workers who dont need an audiophile system... The other half of the musicians need an audiophile system... my statistic is metaphorical here but the difference in the musicians crowds reflect the difference in the general population why ? Because music is one thing , acoustic is another thing... They can blend or they can be set apart... Some people need the two , some need only one, and some people dont need any of the two...
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My sweetheart is a retired career music educator, she listens to Planets on her iPhone speaker while she curls her hair. The oldest son is a senior music major (saxophone) and has a Bluetooth speaker… somewhere. I’m listening to him play jazz now, I don’t need a blind test to know my stereo doesn’t sound like him. Though they wouldn’t say it, I can’t help but feel they know, live is live, otherwise a car radio is fine, haha. |
Elvis has left the building audiophiles, if you want to know where he went click the link below: https://www.mixonline.com/tag/dolby-atmos
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You're conflating inevitable change and evolution with "war." They are two different things. Nothing is permanent.
The changes in the world of two-channel audio make everyone a "winner." It isn't clear why you seem to need to describe a "war" with "winners" and "losers," but you certainly have a flair for drama. |
I appreciate the reply, you are an excellent wordsmith and yes, I may have been a bit dramatic :). Going back to the OP, I believe the "phile" has the sickness because both the demographics and technology of audio reproduction has changed. Investing heavily in a two channel system is a waste when compared to investing in a high end home theater and a smart home. Both the sales data I posted and the link to mixonline data (above Elvis) shows this is the direction that both the consumers and the producers of todays media content are going. 😎
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If you’re going to evaluate those two options as investments, then they are both poor choices because you’re typically buying depreciating assets. From a depreciation standpoint, you might actually fare better with two-channel gear, because some of it does retain its value. In comparison, consumer home theater gear is often rather disposable. Either way, your claim assumes a preference for home theater, and that’s quite an assumption. Some of us really don’t care much about movies. We’re music people.
They are also going to McDonald's. Who cares? |
I dont think that my audio system at 700 bucks is a waste... 😊 In the opposite compared to it , many systems may be a waste... And i am not sure that i will go with the consumers masses...😁 I dont listen much movies and when i listened them their musical "content" in general with few exceptions is enough for me on my computer... I dont need an A. I. wired house with one musical system in each room... Music is more a sacred hour for me in a sacred place than a 24/24 hearing moment in all rooms ...My wife listen only to silence... 😁 Then stereo system + BACCH filters can make obsolete home theater system and music in each rooms at least for me... When the masses will go to hell, i will go to heaven... I joke here... 😉
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Yeah, I’m not one to question this. For the long haul is TBD perhaps. @kota1 if I ever felt the urge, splurge and submerged myself into those waters of yours a particular Speaker Brand has been decided on. Must return to that one word … ugh, laziness! Okay, well maybe money has its rightful place somewhere. |
Personally I’m much to simplified / lazy at this point in life at tackling such a project but that’s just me. It’s not just you, this is why "philes" are sometimes infected with OCD. You spend and chase that last 10% in pursuit of ___________ (fill in the blank). @mahgister has hit the bullseye IMO, music + acoustic. Even the most hardcore, spendaholic philes seldom convert their beautiful listening rooms to a soundstage/recording studio type setup (like I did🔊, see the pics in my system page). Enter the home theater market. Multiple in wall/on wall/satellite speakers and receivers with built in DSP for the lazy among us that want everything, now, on a budget. If I were single and living in a 1 BR apartment today would I drop $30K plus on a "stereo". LOL. But I wouldn’t blink dropping $10K for a Sony HT A9 Home Theater sytem with one of their BR players, TV’s and receivers. Is it as good as an audiophile chrome mountain of gear and sound cannons, no. Is it "good enough"? See what Andrew Robinson says. BTW. I chose Sony in this example because they coinvented the CD. the SACD and DSD. They have a music label and a movie studio. They generally have a finger in all of the media we consume on both the production and consumption sides. For the cheap and lazy among us, its a great soilution. If you still live with your parents or in a dorm get their Signature Headphone stack. Andrew Robinson 6:10 mark "traditional stereo setups, they can't touch this"
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We have a lake home on a golf course. I don’t fish or play golf. Neither pulled me in as a participant, or spectator. But, I do like touring around lake in my golf cart, and my evening escursions on UBL (the Ugliest Boat on the Lake). But, quite early, I was taken in by the phemonon of sound. It didn’t matter whether it was the sound of a screaming Mac9 chainsaw engine mounted behind my head on a go cart, or a Top 40 hit, sound moved me in ways I didn’t quite understand. Picking up a guitar a few years later, I learned to appreciate what it took to make music that sounded like ... music. It was difficult, complex, and challenging. It was at that point that I came to appreciate those who could pull it off artisically. Write it. Perform it. Conduct it. I was simply in awe with those who could make sound so complex, so beautiful, so riviting. A music appreciation course in college elevated my appreciation for classical music. Now I my "antenna" was far more sensitive, and could assign the correct music terms to what I was hearing and experiencing. Music was far more than "music" to me. It was the ability to fully resonate with a natural phenomena, and attach (almost) all of my brain to embracing what as happening in front of me. It was the ultimate embodiment of sound, arranged and delivered will all the resources genius could produce, record, and reproduce in my space. I can’t begin to express the level of gratitute I have for any and ALL parts of this process. I’ve been taken by other pleasures life has to offer and enjoy them immensely. Especially the one’s I share with others. It’s nice to relegate the status of "expert" to someone else once in a while. Just "being there" is enough, sometimes. So, no need feel "weird" about an obsession with music. And, audio. I do know professional musicans whose life and livelihood depend on their command of their instrument (an $80k cello with $30 bow comes to mind) who are completely oblivious to goal of reproducing quality music at home. The "music bug" hit them in a big way. The "audio bug’, not a all. Those of us who enjoy both have been given a gift. One we an enjoy for a lifetime. |
"So, no need feel "weird" about an obsession with music. And, audio. I do know professional musicans whose life and livelihood depend on their command of their instrument (an $80k cello with $30 bow comes to mind) who are completely oblivious to the quality of reproducing of quality music at home. The "music bug" hit them in a big way. The "audio bug', not a all. Those of us who enjoy both have been given a gift. One we an enjoy for a lifetime"
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Home theater: There are some good story tellers out there that have something interesting to convey. Seeing the accumulation of the effects of talented writers, casting, directors, lighting, makeup, sound, etc. who can "pull off" delivering the story the writer wanted to tell, is quite amazing when all the stars line up and it comes together seamlessly. Some movies have absolutely amazing soundtracks, and nobody has to get killed or maimed to make a good story. More channels (correctly rendered) add to the believabilty of being there, and part of the story. And, yes, my 2-channel system is still my favorite system. Music, presented competantly, is a hard act to follow. |
