Interesting idea that seems to have some merit. I happen to be a savage beast and a music lover. Due to a stroke, however, my left side extremities are paralyzed and I only have complete control over my right side extremities.
As a result, I'm a bit concerned that the limited chords and sounds I'd manage to produce, regardless of the musical instrument played, may drive all with good hearing from the room, including myself.
Maybe a didgeridoo, a harmonica or, I got it!.... a cow bell?
Tim
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I have “played around with guitars” since I was quite young. My parents even purchased lessons. My teacher suddenly died of a heart attack and I felt responsible because I could not improve. Result was a deep respect for how talented real musicians are. My Son graduated from Temple Summa Cum Laude. He quit academics and went to luthier school. He has gifted me several guitars and vintage amps that are set up and at the ready. I don’t play them. I look at them in frustration. I love music, but have absolutely no talent. I even have trouble tuning the damn things. So my favorite instrument became the high fidelity stereo, and I can’t master that either.
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Why do you presume that audiophiles do not play musical instruments?? |
I completely agree with your first paragraph’s premise, though it should be recognized; many aren’t thusly concerned. Also: same query as yogiboy’s (where you get your stats). |
I agree with your premise that there is a lot to be gained by playing musical instruments. I think that the two reasons why more people don’t play instruments are the time and money needed. “Playing around” with an instrument is completely different than playing an instrument. Honestly, guitars and keyboards are probably the only instruments that can sound good when being “played around” with. They are also probably the only instruments that sound good when bought for <$100. If you bring a $100 violin to a violin teacher, they will ask you where you got your VSO (violin shaped object).
All that isn’t to say that people shouldn’t learn how to play instruments. It’s just that most people don’t fully understand how much of a investment of time and money it is. Once you realize that, it certainly is well worth it! |
I started with piano in grade school. Parents made me take accordion lessons. Played French Horn in Jr High band. In High School band picked up trumpet, baritone, sax, and clarinet. Well once you can read music and develop the embouchure its down to fingerings.
But this was not "playing around" this was playing music. Anyone can hit a key or get a sax or clarinet to screech and squawk.
Musical instruments are by nature quite loud. As much skill as it takes to play one well it takes even more to play one well and at low volume. In truth, its pretty much impossible to play one at really low volume. Yet it takes real skill to play one at a level anyone really wants to hear.
So the reality of musical instruments are they take skill and practice, practice, practice, without which they are pretty much noise. Really loud, obnoxiously loud, noise. Practice however takes time, patience, commitment, and perseverance.
Now you understand why more people don't do it. |
millercarbon... the reality of musical instruments are they take skill and practice, practice, practice, without which they are pretty much noise. Really loud, obnoxiously loud, noise. Practice however takes time, patience, commitment, and perseverance. That’s exactly correct. In my youth, I developed a fair competence on the horn and a few other brass instruments. Such skill requires playing daily for hours. Professional musicians may make playing their instruments appear easy, but that’s just showbiz. Like the ice skaters on the Olympics, that apparent ease is just an illusion. When I’m asked now if I play an instrument, I answer "no." That’s because if you don’t play every day, you’re not a player. Music education was once common in public schools, but not so much any more. Scarce resources are more likely to be directed to athletics. |
It's difficult and requires lots of practice and patience.
I hope you're not implying that it's necessary or this will turn into that other thread that took a wrong turn at Albuquerque.
All the best,
Nonoise |
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Frank, You suck on the harmonica!!! But sometimes you also blow. 😄 |
^^^ Yeah, but getting it right is the hard part. *lol*
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Cause Im tone deaf and have no rhythm |
I'll pick up a guitar or a bass once in a while and enjoy "improvising". It's satisfying to place a right note AND in a right spot. Of course, you just say it's free avant-garde jazz. |
I have no desire to play an instrument any longer. I mastered the trumpet in 1967-1971 and was in the jazz band in high school. When I was a senior, I did a 7 minute trumpet solo and brought the house down. That was then and this is now. Gave away my trumpet to my nephew who is also in his high school jazz band.
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Jump on being Eric Clapton ASAP!! |
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Just hang with real players, buy a guitar to punish your ma...
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I cant play a mean guitar...maybe a little thoughtful? |
I agree on some levels. I play guitar and mess around with a few other instruments. Though it's not extremely important this hobby or passion however you may describe it is for each individual's pleasure and whatever pleases their ears. So it's all subjective. As you may know also each room has effects live or reproduced. |
I've been fortunate to have my son and his and our musician friends to perform and practice at our house.I know exactly what many instruments sound like.I have some recordings of a few sessions that I like to play when deciding to keep a new component or not.
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My assumption has always been that the percentage of people who play/played musical instruments and who are also audiophiles is a good deal higher than the percentage of instrument players in the general population. The one thing naturally leads to the other. Though it must be said that many professional musicians notoriously have highly deficient audio systems (I know there are exceptions). |
I play classical piano, harmonica, song and have electronic keyboards for other instruments. As stated above, playing an instrument is hard. Playing an instrument very well is very hard. Some talent and hours of practice. Listening to music is easy. I’m no longer surprised that musicians rarely invest in and listen to fine audio systems. Fine instruments can cost less and they spend time playing instead of just listening. Here’s to fellow audiophiles who also play! |
One of the coolest CES shows, I evers attended, had a "LIVE" show, that was recorded, then played back to the same audience. The owner of the speaker company, was in the band... He never followed the rules, compared, to other speaker manufacturers. Pretty good percussion guy in an little Jazz Band. James B. from Ampzilla, stood in on Keyboards.
Me I tinker with everything from my mothers 130 year old upright piano, 3 different types of guitars, one really nice classical, they were fun to tinker with. I love flamingo... I gave up all the congas and hand strikers, years back, I still like pans and xylophones... It’s fun. I don’t have the wind any more, but I could tear up a mouth harp, with some pretty good blues. ALL the instruments, were gifts, I've never even bought a guitar string..
LOL I never learned to read music, BUT.. I could keep up... The sheet music was there so WE could remember the words..when we would sing a little backup, at the OLD family get togethers. 1960-80s
I was really into bagpipes, when I was in my 20s and 30s..My uncle taught me. He couldn't read a note. That was cool, too. He was GOOD..
Regards |
Might want to replace those strings though. |
I'm addicted to both playing musical instruments and listening to good audio, but despite the fact that both obsessions have to do with the love of music, society considers them very different beasts. A lot of society thinks of audiophilia as nothing more than the wallet-emptying exercise of plugging a bunch of overpriced stuff together to get something they could easily get by pushing a button on their car radio. These same gimlet-eared folks, however, will at least admit that getting good on a musical instrument does take discipline and resolve.
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Fine instruments can cost less How many 8-digit audiophile systems do you know of? |
There’s lots of misunderstanding when it comes to how much a musical instrument costs. Yeah, the seven figure price of a Strad gets the publicity, but if you’re a working fiddler you can do more than fine when you got five figures in your pocket. A good Steinway grand can be gotten in the $60,000 neighborhood. I haven’t been to the Guitar Center lately but I’d be surprised if Gibson Les Pauls have made it into the five figure realm. Pre-CBS Stratocasters (the coveted ones) currently cost in the low five figures.
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^^^ I have a step-grandson that plays the bassoon at concert levels. He's amazing. I love to hear him play/practice. The Bassoon he is currently using cost $35,000. He tells me that the model he has is at the bottom price level of what that particular manufacturer offers. We could put a pretty nice audio system together for 35k, that's for sure.
Frank |
Most of the time five figures will buy a very nice instrument. Only professionals need instruments that are more expensive. Even the cheapest violins in the “Big Five” orchestras (plus LA, STL, etc.) will be six figures. The Messiah Strad, possibly the most expensive violin in the world, is worth around $20 million.
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I have guitars and punish myself regularly trying to play them. |
I play Trumpet, Bass Guitar and Piano.
All 3 of my kids play Drums, Percussion, Guitar and Piano. My oldest son is the lead drummer for Oklahoma States Jazz Band as well as being a lead in the OSU Percussion Ensemble he is one of the best 4 mallet players I have ever heard. And he is not a Music Major he is in the Engineering College at OSU.
we have a very happy (most the time) and loud house.
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Yeah, not many $100.00 instruments are going to accomplish what you suggest. Though any good musician can make any level of instrument work well, and sound pretty good. As a recently retired professional musician (I continue to play on my own time now), I am fortunate to have been around live music in various settings, all the time. The music thing is just in the blood. It never ends.
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I come from a family of musicians who play guitar, piano, drums, and I personally have played guitar in rock, jazz, and tympani in marching bands, as well as percussion ensembles. I’m well aware of what acoustic and electric instruments on their own or with small or large groups of musicians in many different settings sound like. So, we are out there.
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1. Read the book "Musicophilia" 2. What stimulates in the brain the listener/critic types is very different from musicians but obviously they overlap.
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As a 'prop' for my listening room I recently had my Fender Mustang circa 1965 completely refurbished. Having played it back in the day I thought it might be a good idea to pick up a amp comparable to what I used to use and give it a whirl when the guitar was finished back to original condition. The guitar looked fantastic, and my playing sucked, whatever I knew was long gone, so a prop it is. Although it holds fond memories from several high school bands I participated in. I will leave the playing to the professionals. |
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edhead4098 posts06-27-2020 2:09pm Might want to replace those strings though. A buddy use to come over and he loved to repair and trick out all kinds of stringed gettups. Could tear up a banjo, turn right around and play stairway to heaven. That’s where a lot of my things came from..His house is full of STUFF. He’s up in Washington, now.. He kept me in my trivial need, I kept his 31 Ford coupe, with the old 462 Lincoln going... (Fuel suckin monster). Tell the truth, my fingers are just too wore out, any more to tinker. A set down with my grandson on the old piano goes much better. I got a pic of him doing a Jerry Lee Lewis, for grandpa.. He’s 5 LOL Regards |
Wonderful replies from both sides of the coin..For those who CAN really play I know & understand full well how much dedication it takes to be good at anything.
I am U.S.Army Master Diver-Engineer(00B-50)Retired,as well as former NAUI Tech Dive Instructor..I have,since the age of 3 when I fell into the deep end of an unattended back yard pool & self rescued,logged almost 40,000 hours in the underwater world.Despite all my vast experience,a novice sport SCUBA Diver can see 90% of the wonders of the undersea world that I have seen,and gain a much better understanding of the water world than someone who simply watches Jacques Cousteau or Into the Blue over & over....
The book recommendation,fascinating,thanks..
For those who,as someone replied,punishes themselves playing around I remember Bruce Lee"Don’t fear the man who practices 1000 techniques,fear the man who practices 1 technique 1000 times"... |
My voice is my instrument. I have an hour of study a week with my vocal coach and put in another 2 or so hours a week singing. Working on a Radiohead song at the moment. |
“I love flamingo... LOL then I bet you’d love flamenco music. Cheers |
In my teens I used to play the violin in the school orchestra. I scraped through grade 8 (see what I did there!). It must have shaped my listening preferences as I very much prefer sitting in the middle of the music, and my Bryston sp3 splits the music up round the room very well.
I also look for authentic sounds like piano decay and for example listening to Bix Biedebecker picking out a cornet instead of a trumpet.
Why, does it make a difference? The players obviously consider the subtle difference important too.
The genuineness of the sound is important to me and synthetic music just grates. Pressing a keyboard and different sounds coming out at a press of a button does not appeal.
The mix of guitars in Rod Stewart's Mandolin Wind always gets me querying how many guitars are playing in the instrumental sections.
On that note (see, I did it again) a big question to you audiophiles ........ How many guitars (or of that genre) are playing on Mandolin Wind? I say 3 but a guitar playing friend said 4. It has been bugging me for 40 years or so! Please put me out of my misery!
Again I suppose, most music listeners don't care but to some of us such things are dear to our hearts. |
Great topic. I agree wholeheartedly and happy to see so many comments supportive of your premise. “Now I know those few notes & easily recognize them in any song.” Then you have more talent (ears) than you give yourself credit for. Get yourself a good teacher! **** I mastered the trumpet in 1967-1971 and was in the jazz band in high school **** No offense, but I kinda doubt it (the “mastering” part). **** “I love flamingo...“ **** I love flamingo too 😊: https://youtu.be/lt0GojgWrA8Btw, a new professional quality saxophone can be had for about $4,000 (and up, of course; much less for used). |
I started playing piano when I was four and played in a small town rock band in my late high school and early college years. I continued playing at home until about age fifty, when I gave it up. The excitement wasn’t there unless I was pushing my boundaries, and I did not have the time or energy to do what I needed to do to improve. I still have the piano, which has been in the family for 124 years.
Listening to good music on a good system keeps the passion alive, and needless to say all those years of playing enhances the appreciation. Maybe I’ll go back to it.
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No talent from whomever hands out the musical talent gene--and either you have it or you do not, period. I played several instruments starting in about 2nd grade, but was never that good at any of them.
Fast forward to college, and guitar and drums became my choices and I played in several bands, but was the only "non-musician" in any of them.
Forward again to the early 1970's when I opened my shop. What a revelation is was to stumble through a song myself and and then listen to a reproduced version. Taught me that box speakers of the day, while fine, were not capable of accurately reproducing the sounds that I played on the actual instruments, even at a basically beginner level. Closest to real were speakers from Magnepan, and they have improved quite a bit since the early 1970's.
That's what messing with instruments did for me, and I still have a few around that I mess with now that I am retired. It is relaxing and enjoyable, but of course no one else has to listen!
Cheers!
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I started learning clarinet around age 11. I played for 20 years or so. At 14 I also took up alto sax, and later tenor. I got quite good on the clarinet, good enough to know exactly how much daily practice it would take to get significantly better. Hours and hours every day. As it was clear that I was never going to make a living doing that, that's when I had to throttle back, and listening really took over. But there is nothing like sitting in the middle of a full-scale orchestra when it's playing at full tilt. Not necessarily the perspective you want from your audio system, but unique and energizing nonetheless. |
Musical instruments? Bah!!They are fraught with imperfections. As a matter of fact, some of these crazy people who like “vintage” electric guitars and amplifiers Actually like them for their glaring sonic imperfections. I hesitate to mention this, but some of them even not only like distortion, but seek ways to increase it and enhance it. Oh the humanity! |
All, not all categories of musical instruments require capital investments comparable to high end audio equipment.
European made 1st tier professional level High brass horns can be had for well under $4K. See for example the rather spectacular Adams trumpets, flugelhorns, and cornets from Dutch master designer and manufacturer Miel Adams. Even low brass euphoniums are typically below $10K.... Only tubas tend to rest in the double-digit range:
https://www.austincustombrass.biz/brands/Adams.html
Quality 2nd tier horns are even more affordable. See the wide range of low and high brass offerings from Wessex Tuba:
https://wessex-tubas.com/
Yes, while in a distance past I studied classical piano and voice, and later played flute, I have more recently been dabbling with brass... My "true love" being the euphonium.
One interesting characteristics of brass instruments is that they require a modicum of finger agility only with one hand. This is usually the right hand, although left-handed horns are also available from several manufacturers.
Admittedly, playing any musical instrument with a modicum of success is, well.... Work :) On the other hand, the skill does not necessarily require the ability of reading musical scores.
So, friend @Noble100 (Tim), you being able to enjoying playing a horn is not at all out of the question... Send me a PM if you would like to chat about it... The short Bb cornet, flugel horn, and euphonium might work particularly well for you.
Saluti, Guido
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(a) Fender Tweed Champ amp with maxed-out volume (12) started the whole rock guitar sound. It is reputed that Eric Clapton recorded Layla with one as his studio amp. "... some of these crazy people..." are you insinuating someone like wolf Garcia be considered as crazy?? (I have an old tweed champ, also) and I'm far from crazy.
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guide and noble, I'm sure you know of Jack Sheldon who wasn't stopped by a stroke. He (just 🙄) switched-over to his left hand for Trumpet. |
Wonder how many of you are in the engineering proffession? |
