ARE SUPER EXPENSIVE STREAMERS REALLY WORTH IT

Read your opening sentence that you have in all capital letters. Then add the word "NO" in even BIGGER capital letters, and make the letters BOLD for emphasis.

You have your answer.

@nubiann If you have highly resolving gear and a good/great room, then Y E S. Please keep in mind that the streamer and DAC or both in one box will benefit from clean ethernet, (lots of how to on these fora) power, and connects. 

No. It's more about your internet service. Fiber optic is best.

I’m using a blue sound node 130 with an upgraded LPS going into a Denafrips Hermes DDC and the new Denafrips Venus 15 DAC. I have not heard other streamers,  but I think this combination sounds great. Hi-Rez files from Qobuz can sound better than original vinyl pressings of the same recordings.

So I don’t think it’s necessary to have an expensive streamer to have musically satisfying sound. It’s a personal choice whether further improvement justifies the expense. From what I’ve been told the Innuos Sense app may have features which the BluOS lacks, and this sort of thing may also justify an upgrade.

I think Jim summed it up for me with respect to Bluesound VS Aurender .   I still use my Vault in my second system.   Still a great platform.   

I went from a Blusound Vault 2i to an Aurender N200 ... not super expensive but considerably more money. Given that it is my most frequently used source , I have to say it was worth it to me. I got a great deal by leveraging another component toward it on a trade in but I have no regrets about doing it. I love that machine. I get a lot of enjoyment out of it so money we’ll spent.

People don’t get i2s, probably they don’t want to spend the money for better equipment that has this interface. People claim they worry about noise, clocking, etc, and you would be right if you are using usb. The old days I used usb just like 99% of the people, mostly because the servers, streamers, dacs didn’t include i2s. I also purchased a bunch of gimmicks/tweaks on usb clocks/reockers/cables that separated the power and data cables using usb, and in the end, it all sucked.

I did have a dac system that used i2s decades ago that was audio alchemy. Their i2s cable was strange. For decades, many sacd manufacturers had an hdmi interface between their sacd player and their preamp. Thes were all i2s and yes they were proprietary. 
I used Ethernet into the dac for a few years over using usb. Now, I’m using a streamer that its main function in life is to be a Roon endpoint and read data from Ethernet and the output uses i2s into the dac

I have a BS Node N130 with a separate linear power supply and I have a Aurender N200 streamer.  When plugged into the same DAC, they sound very much alike, but there’s a huge difference in presentation. The N200 sounds cleaner and you can hear individual instruments to the point where you can point to them. There’s a crispness that the N130 just doesn’t have. 

Crazy thought but forget about the geek-a-thon tech analysis and buy what sounds best to you in your system. Im convinced that more thought goes into marketing spin than technology. Hence all the wildly different opinions. This is not an exact science. Only you can answer your questions. 

@nubiann - it’s not either or, but rather the entire audio chain matters.  It’s not the strong link that matters, but the weakest link is the one to address to lift sonics.

So for choosing a streamer, it depends on the level of your audio chain - not good enough it becomes the bottleneck/weak link, higher than the rest of the audio chain performance will be limited.

if you tell us your audio chain and budget, then we can make informed recommendations

Expensive streamers are best matched usually to very transparent systems with low noise floors which tends to also be expensive.   

I am sure the more expensive streamers are better but at what cost ?  Just like a Rolls Royce Phantom is a much better vehicle but at $500K, I would be very happy with a $100K Audi A8 and have $400K in the bank...

As many on this thread have said, put you money in a good re clocking DAC. Gordon Rankin solved the problem of streaming digital samples from a cheap computer years ago. 

i2s is not the step up that you think it is. It is totally dependant on the DAC and somewhat on the cabling.

Yes @soix you are correct. I was referring to DDC or clock that is inserted between streamer and dac. It will reclock whatever input you feed it. So the i2s out of DDC into DAC will most likely sound as good as any other interface. 

To me they are ,I am in several audio clubs 

a blue node good for starting out, like the Eversolo 6 

I have a Innuos Zenith Mk3 and it’s just built on another level 

the casework and ever feet were designed with vibration in mind , from the high quality Teac cd- ripper drive to the SS HD 

linear power supplies 3, plus incoming,outgoing filters to clean the signal 

very high quality Mundorf Mlytic power supply filtering capacitors to complement

even more so the Nichicon. Capacitors , it’s built to a very high level 

similar to my LSA MicroZotl series 2 preamp and a richer warmer more Analog type sound ,to me well worth it ,and the power cords, as well as usb,and Ethernet cables equally important. Even the incoming digital a Zlinear Power Supply is a must from the router fs the horrible $5 wall wart.

I think it's a matter of balance in your system. If you have a modest system you wouldn't need to buy a $20K streamer and in fact you most likely wouldn't even realize the improvements in the expensive streamer. On the other hand, it wouldn't make sense to have an expensive and very revealing system with a very low end and inexpensive streamer either. I think common sense prevails here. Like people say everything in your system matters and you need to always look at the weak link. I will tell you that I'm certain that there are differences between cheap and expensive streamers. What those differences are is something you need to decide for yourself and to make a decision if the addition costs are worth it to you.

@nubiann So many highly technological responses here, it boggles the mind, lol. For what it’s worth, a few years ago, I had to move my audio system to a smaller space, so I downsized and simplified my audio system with phenomenal results. One of the things I did in order to have less components in my audio system was to purchase an extremely high end streaming DAC. The streamer/DAC combo in my Ayre Acoustics QX-5 Twenty DAC sounds absolutely superb. I can’t tell you how, but it does. So, there are other more simplified, high quality, options out there at your disposal. Happy listening.

@audphile1  My understanding is SPDIF/AES/i2S benefit from the streamer/DDC clock and that the clock in the DAC still works but just has a lower jitter signal to deal with.  I was also under the impression that USB does not benefit from clocks in the streamer/DDC and that the only clock in play is the DAC’s clock, which if true would put USB at a bit of a disadvantage in that regard.  Of course it also greatly depends on which input the designer optimized on any given DAC as usually there’s one that’s better than the others, so that’s at play here too.  Not sure I’ve got this right and still learning as I go here so very open to other thoughts on this. 

@soix I had exactly the same experience as you when I compared DH Labs coax vs. stock cheap usb cable between Aurender N200 and Bricasti M3. The cheap USB beat the DH Labs. And it had nothing to do with the cables. The DH Labs D750 is an amazing digital cable. It’s purely the processing - coax relying on streamer clock vs USB relying on DAC clock. Same with i2s. And if you take into consideration that some use DDC to reclock USB in and output i2s to DAC then you have as clean a signal as could be. And most likely USB and coax would sound just as good, all else being equal (clean reclocked signal, etc.) 

I haven’t tried but that’s my thought process  

There's nothing magic about I2S, it's simply another interface du jour.

@cleeds  That’s not correct IME.  The i2S sends the bit clock, word clock, and data stream separately to the DAC so it doesn’t have to go through the added step of having to unpack them from a combined signal as it is sent through SPDIF and AES/EBU.  It is also capable of higher resolution data transfer than those other connections that are limited to 24/192.  I compared SPDIF using a $520 digital  cable to i2S using a 6” $8 HDMI cable from Monoprice (both coming from my DDC) and i2S was superior — more transparent, quieter background, and better imaging/3D soundstage.  While USB is also capable of higher resolutions you are limited to the clock in the DAC alone whereas i2S can utilize the clock in the streamer or DDC to send a lower jitter signal to the DAC that can further improve the DAC’s performance.  So I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss i2S as just another interface especially if you haven’t tried it. 

Lalitk can answer your question OP.

Listen to the Taiko Olympus and report back. I've heard differences with every single streamer I've had in my system, extremely important  streaming component. Issue is full potential of any streamer won't be heard if rest of streaming chain not up to snuff. I treat streaming chain exactly like entire system chain which means everything from AC quality to room.

i2s was developed for internal connections and was never meant to be an interface between two components i.e. streamer and DAC. There are no standards defined for i2s snd that is precisely the reason why there are compatibility issues between components.

You need to understand differences between streamer types, DSP, jitter and clocking more than you need to worry about i2s.

nubiann

I2S is designed to preserve and separate the Signals so avoiding the timing issues connected with multiplexing.

There's nothing magic about I2S, it's simply another interface du jour. And I'm not convinced that there's any truth to the claim that it avoids "timing issues connected with multiplexing."

From my experience once a good DAC is implemented the streamer has very little to do with it as long as the signal is good. Most good quality DAC's now can overcome any issues with timing/data issues/ noise,  ect.  I’ve gone through a half dozen streamers now with little difference, at least not enough to warrant the cost of some of them. In one case i found the $6800 streamer to sound worse than a dedicated and optimized PC (Aurender I'm looking at you). For me once I got an excellent DAC it was about user interface and ease of use, some of those streaming apps are terribly designed.  

Recently I've been comparing Apple 4kTv box with a tidal app loaded to many of the streamers I've or friend have and I'm shocked at how good the Apple tv box is, even only at CD quality. Yes, Hi rez files do sound better on a dedicated streamer/PC/Apple computer/etc.

Streamers are like every other component in an audio system. The better the component the deeper the thought has gone into it, the designer has gone through extraordinary efforts to clean power, eliminate internal interference and vibration and chosen materials and subcomponents accordingly. The fruits of this are very heavy... my Aurender W20SE weights 46 pounds, full footprint and expensive streamer that sounds simply spectacular. I have tried a dozen streamers starting with low end ones and confirmed, that in general you get what you pay for in terms of sound quality.

Nope there isn't a cheap work around.... or there wouldn't be all those expensive streamers on the market. 

I have tried iPhone, iPods, iPads, PCs, MacBooks running on batteries. None of them measure up to a good budget streamer... and the sound quality just gets better from there. I you just want something that sounds pretty good... than any of these work well.

In my experience, one doesn't need an expensive streamer to get really good sound digitally. I use a Mac Mini M2 with Audirvana and a Denafrips DDC, which in my opinion takes the performance level very close, if not, surpasses some dedicated streamers. I've had an Auralic Aries G2 in my system for a few weeks and while it was very good, I preferred my Mac x Audirvana x DDC combination. 

The meat and potatoes of getting excellent digital sound are the software (Audirvana or Roon), managing & reclocking jitter (DDC), and reclocking the network (Audio-grade Network Switch). With that trifecta in place and with a good DAC, the sound can be sublime.

Obviously, some people prefer the one-box solution of a dedicated streamer, fewer boxes, fewer cables, and that's fine.  

Quit reading at I2S...

When someone shops for a component based on what I/O format they use, I lose interest.

Your thread title did interest me.  I'll say that a low to mid level streamer achieves a higher percentage of high level performance than a low to mid level DAC does.  So if you have limited funds, put them into your DAC.

Jerry

The cleaner the incoming signal and the less jitter and noise the DAC has to deal with the better it will sound. Likewise using i2S obviates the need for the DAC to go through the added step of having to parse out the combined data and clock signals and can contribute further to better sound. So yes, to the extent a streamer can provide all these benefits it can make a material difference in how the DAC performs, and by all accounts the more costly streamers from the likes of Grimm, Aurender, etc. do seem to result in material sonic benefits. If you choose to spend less on a streamer then adding a good DDC can go a long way toward providing a cleaner signal and i2S to the DAC, which is what I did with excellent results. Hope this helps.