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Thanks for the advice. Those look very nice but I would want a warranty at this price. Also, I don't see a line out for my sub. What about the NAD C 298? https://nadelectronics.com/product/c298-stereo-power-amplifier/It has those purifi modules I keep reading about like they're the next big thing. Supposed to be efficient and just the right amount of power. Also has gain control and line out. Just testing the waters a bit. |
Run XLR from your Topping to the amp and run your Topping RCA out to your sub. If you found an amp like that Nad with line out I believe that would be a full strength signal. In other words it would not control the volume of the sub.
The setup I just described is what I am using with my RME dac and works great.
Usually a lot of Parasound Halo A21s in that price range. I just scored a perfect 2 year old one for $1400. Warm detailed and dynamic. Just a great amp the money. |
Thanks for the idea about xlr/rca out simultaneously. I wasn’t sure that would work. I’ll also read up on the A21 as well as the amps from the first post since it’s not necessary to have line out on the amps. I wasn't sure it would work since I thought balanced out had more gain than rca and it might goof up the volume ratio between speakers and sub at different volume levels.
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There’s a pair of Bel Canto 500M monos on US AudioMart for $1800 that’d be great. Another excellent option would be a D-Sonic M3a-800S for $1475 new, and they offer a trial period, which is obviously a nice option. D-Sonic flies under the radar, but if you read the reviews it makes you wonder why.
Also, if you’re upgrading to amps of this caliber you really need to invest in a better preamp as well or a lot of your system’s performance potential will be unrealized. Preamps matter as much or more than amps IME. Hope this helps, and best of luck.
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I should have mentioned in the title I want new with warranty. Sorry about that.
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a Van Alstine is another good option |
@brandini I had a Topping A90 amp for a few months, just passed it off this afternoon. I also have RAAL SR1a headphones (with ribbon) that may have similar characteristics as your RAAL.
I was looking at amps in the $1500-$2000 range because my Benchmark AHB2 is not ideal for the RAAL SR1a. Last night I researched the Parasound A23+, the Peachtree NOVA amp500 (from Underwood HiFi), and the NAD M22 (used).
I have owned the Parasound A23, PEachtree NOVA 150, and demoed the NAD M22. They are all warm sounding amps and that is a good thing for the RAAL SR1a. I am not sure if I will buy one of these or save up for a CODA #8.
BTW - you will not get a more neutral or clear amp than the AHB2 but it is not a good match for my RAAL SR1a. I have an all Benchmark stack for my 2 channel speakers so I love the neutral sound but not for the RAAL. |
I wouldn’t worry about buying used, especially if you’re buying from a respectful manufacture. You can buy new and in a short time the amp you just purchased is worth 50% or less. Nothing wrong with buying new but you’ll get a lot more amp and probably have a lot more options with used. Also might have a difficult time finding a new $1500 to $2K amp that is balanced. I have not heard the new Adcom’s, but maybe check out the GFA 565se.
Used, I would look at a Parasound A21+ if you want something not too old. If you can go older there are a lot more options and likely even better and probably going to hold their resale values for many more years to come.
Can’t speak on running your Topping direct, but if it’s anything like my RME you will be fine. My RME sounds outstanding running direct.
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Ascend Acoustics, that's a name that tends to fly under the radar. I had the Sierra 2 and Ascend tends to have a very neutral house sound, and the ribbon tweeters they use are excellent with superior vertical dispersion. I had them with the Halo Parasound A21, and the warm sound of the Halo wasn't ideal, or at least, not to my taste. The Ascend towers are 4 ohm, 89 sensitivity. I liked the approach of Ascend. Internet Direct, a guy that is passionate about speakers, and does things his own way. That sounds a lot like Schiit Audio, another ID company headed up by a couple of electronics engineers that are passionate about audio and love what they do. I'd suggest their Vidar amplifier. 200 watts per channel at 4 ohms and just sound really great. I've got one, and am very happy with it. Oh yeah, a 5 year warranty, and they come in your choice of silver or black. Made in the USA. You're going to love the price, you'll have enough money left over to buy their top of the line Freya+ preamp. https://www.schiit.com/products/vidar |
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I have a lot to think about. Has anyone tried VTV amps before? They have one for amp $999 with purifi modules and it's supposed to be super clean and strong at 4ohm.
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I am not going to hide the fact that this suggestion is blatantly self-serving, but I would actually make the same recommendation regardless. I am currently selling a pair of PS Audio M700 Monoblock amps here on Audiogon. They are high-end amps disguised in a modestly priced package, and I'm only selling them because I'm downsizing. If I didn't need to get rid of my separates, I would keep them, for sure. There are other M700 owners that can attest to their high value. Anyway, good luck! |
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Odyssey- great price/performance bargain. IIRC Magico’s Alon Wolf liked and used Odyssey amps, not solely though. |
I'd be cautious about that VTV amp. They claim 425 watts at 4 ohms and 1% THD, but the 20 to 20 kHz power rating at 4 ohms is only 100 watts. |
@brandini,
Moving from your existing lightweight Onkyo receiver to a dedicated amplifier for your Ascend/RAAL speakers can be a worthy step up IF you choose well. It seems your Topping D90 offers (dual-active) preamp outputs (XLR & RCA), so you could actually run one set of XLRs to your amp, and the other set of RCAs to the sub. As you may be aware, lower model Rhythmik sub amps offer only RCA inputs, upper models offer XLR, if you wanted to flip it and run XLR/balanced to the RA sub. Not sure which RA sub/amp you have.
AMP & Budget;
Class A/AB, your (4ohm) speakers deserve a good stable amp with some real (weighty) transformer(s), and capability to run lower impedance swings with ease. The Frank Van Alstine AVA SET 400, w/optional XLR comes close at your top budget. Class D Purify, such as your thought about the NAD C298 could work too in terms of power and budget, sound is up to you. I’ve been considering testing both of these in a secondary setup.
Taking your time to research and secure a really good amp will pay off.
Ask amp manufactures first about your Topping D90 Balanced/XLR output voltage at 4 volts:
"Dual output ports:"
"Topping D90 is equipped with dual output sockets, XLR outputs offer 4Vrms output power at 0dBps, and the other output port, an unbalanced RCA offers 2Vrms output power at 0dBps. It provides enough power to power any of your demanding devices, whether it’s headphones or a speaker system. The D90 can send a signal through both output ports at the same time, so you can use multiple tools at the same time. It is equipped with a volume control function, so it can be used both as a digital-to-analog converter and as a preamplifier converter. The volume control can be turned off so that the D90 works only as a digital-to-analog converter."
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Thank you for the extra info. I would be going out the back of the A90 amp since the balanced out on the D90 is already taken by the cable going to the A90. I assume the result would be the same.
I've noticed lots of bel canto recommendations for older units. This has me wondering if I should save a bit more for a new bel canto unit since they seem to last a long time unless I'm mistaken. I don't mind spending a bit more for something that's going to last decades and is easily repaired.
Would you say bel canto is a quality brand with good quality worth saving for? I've seen some questions raised online about NAD build quality and VTV build quality but haven't heard anything bad about bel canto yet. It seems like they're the amp equivalent of and old toyota that won't die but with the performance of a sports car.
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If you use xlr cables. this lil beast is great, and with looks to match, is a great powerhouse with plenty of headroom. I’m seriously considering the purchase myself for a nice backup! http://www.avantonepro.com/cla-200.php |
@soix I see that you have recommended the D-Sonic
M3a-800S amp a few times on A'Gon.
Do you have this amp? If so what is the sound characteristic? Would it be a good match for a bright speaker?
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I use Monarchy Audio
SM70-Pro
mono amps, one for each channel. I recommend them very much!
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Another self serving plug. This one for the Monarchy Audio amps. I run a pair of SM70MKII's. They are currently driving a pair of easy load low efficiency Graham Chartwell LS3/5's. They sound splendid!
Obvious ironmine has impeccable taste! |
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@yyzsantabarbara
VEry interested to hear how the Dsonic works out. Looks to be a very good value on paper and has made my personal short list of amps I would consider buying. |
@mapman I am not going to put the D-Sonic on my floor standers. I use all Benchmark for that. The D-Sonic is for my RAAL SR1a which are my "mini floor standers" (just love them). I wanted a little bit more warmth on the amp or preamp than the Benchmark stack I have. They need about 150 watts to sound their best with the amp interface box from RAAL so the D-Sonic will be more than sufficient.
I just put my less than 1 month old Silver AHB2 up for sale (my orphaned 3rd AHB2).
In my conversation with Dennis at D-Sonic I found out we have a few common community acquaintances where I currently live. Small world.
I must say that having a $2K killer amp is more interesting to me than a $20K killer amp. |
@yyzsantabarbara — sorry didn’t see your prior question until now. No I don’t have the DSonic amp, but in reading the reviews it came across as an amp on the sonic level of amps costing multiples of its price so always stayed on my radar and never quite understood how it stays so relatively unknown even despite a lack of advertising. Obviously I’m hugely interested in your impressions as I could definitely be a customer in the future. |
+1 tomic601. I would take a serious look, and call, Klaus at Odyssey also Van Alstine. Considering them myself.
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Odyssey is another good one as stated. I would be a little careful depending on sensitivity of your speakers though. I had 2 different Stratos a plus and an Extreme. They sounded really really good but we’re not the quietest amps. |
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Yes I would not expect those Underwood Wyred specials to last long. |
After much reading and deliberation I ended up giving in to my curiosity about purify. I got the vtv eigentakt eval 1. Everything I read about it suggests it’s the full size speaker equivalent of my A90 which I like a lot with my phones. Audio science review showed it performing in a similar way as the A90, basically making everything else look silly for less money in the measurements. The only thing that came out ahead in the rankings was the benchmark amp(i forget the model#) with better distortion numbers but far less power for way more money.
If I don’t like it I can return it within 30 days so it seems like a good risk. I just got it hooked up for a test spin and it is indeed very clear and punchy. I still need to get my sub hooked up but what I’ve heard is promising. Also, it has a very quality feel to it which I’ve read wasn’t always the case with vtv in the beginning. It feels like a large boutique headphone amp, using the whole case as a thick heatsink. No extra holes in the bottom and looks good on my shelf with my other gear. Now for more music. |
First impressions are very good. I was a bit worried until I realized I had to reverse the phase on my sub and then suddenly theeeere it is. It went from clear but hollowed out to clear and fleshed out and warm and delicious. I had to look up the specs on my speakers to realize they go down to 40hz and I was getting overlap in the low frequencies combined with being out of phase.
Now that it’s about 80-90% dialed in with the sub I’m extremely impressed. I feel like I got a hubble telescope for my ears that lets me hear the universe. I don’t notice any excessive high frequencies like I’ve seen mentioned in purifi threads here but then again this is the newer model with a different opamp. So far very happy but still learning. |
Amps don’t have sub outs, or stuff like that,
your looking for a receiver, or similar.
No?? |
Someone on this thread asked previously what I thought of the $1500 D-Sonic M3a 800s. Well I tried it 3 ways now and have some observations.
1) As a headphone amp to my RAAL SR1a. I did not like it. This was with Gustard X26 Pro connected to the Benchmark HPA4 preamp.
2) As a 2 channel speaker amp to my Thiel CS3.7 with the Gustard X26 Pro as the preamp (digital volume). It was OK but a little harsh and lacked something. Some other issues with the Gustard as a preamp but that is not relevant.
3) I finally got the CODA 07x preamp to control this system and the Gustard is now just used as a DAC (not a DAC/preamp). The sound is great.
The amp is very fast and not bright nor harsh. I was going to buy the CODA #8 amp for this system but why rush into it now. I am going to try this out for at least a year. I cannot afford the CODA #8 today so luckily this D-Sonic is coming up a big winner now.
Another bonus is that this amp seem capable of operating on 2 Ohm region. I need to confirm this with D-Sonic but I can tell this is the case buy how well the Thiel's sound, more bass and power compared to my Benchmark AHB2 amps on the Thiel's. The $3K AHB2 are preferred over the D-Sonic but not on the Thiel CS3.7, which is a tough speaker to drive. |
@brandini — congrats on the new amp, and it’d be interesting to hear your thoughts after you have >100 hours on it. Also, at some point you should consider sending it to Ric At Electonic Visionary Systems for some cost-effective upgrades that could up the performance level even further.
@yyzsantabarbara — has the D-Sonic fully broken in? What didn’t you like about it with the headphones? We’re you using the Coda in that setup too? What would you consider the core strengths/weaknesses of the amp? Thanks for the update — very interesting. |
@soix thanks I’ll report back after spending more time with it. The mods look interesting but I think I’ll keep my warranty for now. Will look deeper into it for the future though. So far really enjoying the new amp . I didn’t know my speakers had this much left to give. It sounds so freaking clear and powerful. I was watching the clock at work today wanting to come home and listen to different kinds of music and see how it does. Good times!
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Been listening for awhile and seeing how it goes with different music. I still haven't really noticed any unpleasant high frequencies but I will say that the vtv eval-1 is unforgiving. On one hand there are albums that are perfectly recorded that I can crank up and everything sounds flawless with tons of detail and liquid smoothness.
On the other hand there are some albums I've had forever that I didn't realize aren't that well done. The downward spiral, sergeant peppers lonely hearts club band, and swing the heartache are albums that sound better the louder you go because there are more layers you louder you go and none of them are harsh. Sadly some of my Led zeppelin and pink floyd sound a bit low fi in comparison even though the music is still good.
Every time I start to have doubts I run into a different recording that was done properly and sounds incredibly good. This setup does nothing to hide flaws but it flies high when it has something to work with. Hope that made sense. |
Small advice,...... save a wee more. Take this year, and squirrel away a bit more, and next year, save a lil more. Get the coin, and call Roger Sanders for the Magtech stereo amp!
You will not find a better amp for your scenario!
Arguably the best amp money can buy, and will drive anything no matter the load!
Patience is key, save a bit more for the Sanders amp, you will be rewarded! |
If you do not mind a Chinese amp, consider Jungson JA-99C standard edition. It sells at $1250 in Amazon, free shipping from USA. It is rated 80WPC, but it sounds as loud and big as 150~200WPC amps. This review is real. I totally agree with this reviewer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqFNrWEImEA&t=49sJA-1 preamp is also really nice. Can't beat the price. |
Modded VTV Purifi $999 amp ($1650 with mods). 500 watts into 2 ohms......will sound really great. |
