Is It Worh Modding An Amp

No.....

Try to understand what you are wanting from you sound.......please don;t tell me more base....

A good beginning.

I'll also say No.

I’ve sent two pieces of gear out to be modded and wasn’t especially pleased each time.

The first was an Adcom GFA-555. It was away so long, I honestly couldn’t tell if there was any improvement. But I was out the money.

The second was a TacT 2.2X. The modifier fell on hard times and never finished my job. Indeed, I never even got the unit back -- a decade ago, it was in pieces somewhere in a storage unit. That was a total loss. Not the usual outcome, but it can happen.

In any case, modding is a poor financial move. Modified gear costs the owner more but is more difficult to sell (and usually sells for less) than unmodified gear.

You could roll the tubes.

Most tube upgrading services involve swapping out parts, primarily capacitors, for more expensive ones.  This is not necessarily an improvement if the original designer voiced the component and used appropriate parts for the sound the designer was trying to achieve.  I've heard several such "upgrades" that sounded clearly inferior (at least in my opinion based on my taste and the system the amp was tried). 

To do this sort of thing correctly, one must find a technician who knows about the sound of different parts and you must convey what you want from the upgrade (e.g., warmer/lusher sound or greater clarity, etc.).  There is no such thing as an always superior part.

Your best bet might be something non-invasive such as the tube rolling suggested above.  Manufacturers put it the cheapest and most plentiful tubes that will fit their needs.  They need tubes that can be easily replaced so that they can either supply the customer with replacements or make it easy and economical for the customer to replace.  That is not just a matter of saving money.  It does not make sense for a manufacturer to invest in expensive tubes of a particular type when that tube might not fit the customers' taste or match the customers' system.  It makes more sense for the customer to do this.  

Even though I'm a tinkerer by nature, unless there are some known issues with the amp and some known mods to fix the issue, I would not modify the circuit.  Tube rolling is a far safer bet.

On the other hand, has anyone done any cap upgrades to these amps?  I don't see that as a circuit mod, just a parts swap....and it's reversible.  

There is a thing you could 'mode' and it should upgrade its sound without the doubt. Prima Luna, as well as many other manufacturers in such and even in higher class use Alps volume control. It is in fact the crucial and weak link of many preamps or integrated amps. By changing it, for some attenuator (Ladder type), let say from TKD, you will hear significant improvement that no tube or cable swapping can match, for a insignificant cost. Just be sure to buy the part that has the same values as the one inside and buy it from reliable source (not from Ebay and not from HK or China, as they are mostly fake, meaning not originals produced in Japan. Of course, it does not have to be TKD, but their TKD 2CP2500MC is a great value, performance/price vise. Its not expensive and you can always put back the original part back. Its not a difficult thing to do, for any experienced tehnician.

I put TKD volume pot and AudioNote Copper caps in an older Cary Audio SLP94 preamp and it was a nice upgrade over stock.

I think as others have said it really depends on what your looking for but yes changing a few key components can change the sound if its an improvement or not is up to your ears and what yo like. it could be a fun experiment if your handy with a soldering iron to change out key components with others. I've always wanted to try a bunch of different caps etc.

The PL is a great integrated amp-as is.

4 premium caps and # resistors + labor probably will eat $500+ easy?

Unless you're Bob Carver, no amount of modifications will turn it into an ARC, BAT or whatever killer.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/carver-challenge

Put the PL in a second system or sell it.

The PL already has a low resale value. Mods will lower it.

Longtime PL user here.

The chance you will regret it is actually higher than anticipated.

Do you really want an unknown hands temper with your equipment for the goal you don't know if you achieve or not??

It all depends on who is doing the modding and what their track record is. Modwright and Backert Labs both started modifying electronics. Perhaps people have heard of them? Ric at EVS mods mostly digital equipment. I'm sure there are others. You just have to use due diligence in your search.

I would not dismiss them out of hand. However, as @tablejockey pointed out, the PL gear is already full of premium parts. Not sure what you would gain with mods?

If you have money that is burning a hole in your pocket, why not check out some of the newest cheap class D amps. You may be surprised.

I see a portion of my post missing-

There are threads of PL owners swapping coupling caps and resistors. Just how much "improvement" is gained? I imagine it’s a YMMV thing?

Just how convincing the sound is coming out of your speakers-that's the sum of ALL parts. Recording/gear/room.

Sounds like it’s a coin toss at best that I’d really get good value out of upgrading. I guess if anyone is looking for a Primaluna Dialogue One hit me up. Thanks everybody! 

I suggest a look at the Mullard CV 4004 and then play with the Ultra-linear vs Triode.

When the U-L or Tetrode is discovered, then the 12 AU7 can be looked at for an exchange tube.   

I have had excellent results modding multiple amps, both solid state and tube.  Never once failed to get an improvement in sound.  What's the downside?  One downside is resale value.  However, I buy my equipment for my own sonic enjoyment so...

Jay mark agree ++++. My plinius was modded by changing the wiring and speaker binding post. I have it for almost 20yrs now.

I would just roll tubes. Easy to do, easily reversible, many combinations available between all the preamp and power tube combos, won’t hurt resale, plus the unused tubes can be kept for future amps or just resold.

The Dialogue 1 uses pretty inexpensive coupling caps and shunt filtering caps on the input tubes. There are much better caps out there but they are not cheap. The problem is most of these caps are considerably large in size than the stock caps so are not going to fit on the bias PCB. They will have to hang somewhere. Where are you going to place them? They will help the sound a bit but what is the point if you are not using the amp. Would be better off selling it and moving on to something else. Have owned most of the PL line from the very early models to the later models. 

I vote no.  There's not much to mod, maybe 6 film caps?  That's about it.  I wouldn't mess with the electrolytics.  The limited factors in any tube amp are going to be the circuit and the output transformers, maybe the power supply if it's really inadequate, which I don't think is the case here.  It is what it is.  If it's gathering dust, sell it and use the money for something you can use. ;-)

Major mods to amplifiers are as valuable as you the buyer think they are. If you really trust the person doing the mods and those mods address known reliability or sound quality issues, then I would say go for it. With luck you get a somewhat better piece of gear and if this is done as a regular maintenance/update then its much easier to justify (for me anyway) then doing it 'just because I can.' That said, you can look at this like the used car thing...modifications to a car almost always reduce its resale value unless it addresses a known issue with that make or model. But body kits, things that step far outside the original design, almost always is never a good idea.

In my opinion this would depend on what is behind it.  You'll notice dramatic changes in sound be modding your source (if necessary) as well as any pre-amplification you may be using.  But modding the power amplifier should be the last on the list unless it has some well-known draw-back that should be addressed.

If you have to ask then probably not. 

I had Ric Schultz mod my GaN1 and it sounds terrific,  but if I had to sell it I wouldn't recover any of the $500 the mod cost.  It's a risk.

I'll add some more.

If I need a repair of any precious equipment I know techs who only will replace non-working components and touch or re-touch nothing else if everything else is in tact. 

I've repaired already several vintage and modern components at reasonable prices paid mostly for labor and diagnostics and rest little for parts and their quality work brings many units back to original specs like fresh new strings on guitar or violin. 

They don't offer any upgrades for the sakes of keeping solid reputation. Far more than often those upgrades don't satisfy customer and require lots of uncreative labor. Real pros would never advise you to fall on that upgrade bait.

@treepmeyer Ugh. I sent something to Ric once and he sent me back garbage. Horrible soldering, bad attitude and bad treatment of my materials. Avoid this turkey and learn to DIY.

Give it a shot if you’re willing to gamble. I had a Conrad Johnson cav45 v2. Bought it from a guy that sent it back to CJ and did the SE upgrade which from what I understand is just rip out cheaper caps and add Teflon caps. He said it was a large improvement over stock caps. I loved that amp. 
 

Long ago had an Exemplar Audio modded tube Denon 2900 that was one of the best cd player I had ever heard so good I bought his newer Oppo version. I also had a chance to hear a stock Denon 2900, stock sounded bad next to the modded player. 
 

I was in your place once I had a Bruce Moore preamp sitting up not being used took out signal caps added some Jupiter’s and better resistors. Really made that amp shine for what it was. You just need to figure out what sound you want from V Caps to Jupiter and everything in between. Then there is new wire better resistors, RCA jacks it never stops. I think you can make that amp sound better if you don’t buy mismatched parts, beware.

CV4004 are long life Valves. When supplied with very good measurements, these are proven to be very secure Valves that have a very long usage life.

Note: Measurements shown in relation to Factory Spec' are the only description worth taking on board, I have received verbal descriptions and in nearly all cases they are proven to be very unreliable, causing Seller/ Vendor friction when Valves are wanted to be returned. 

Caveat Emptor is ones friend when purchasing Valves.

It could be a case where a 1000hrs are used by the latest owner of the Valves, the Valves are still presenting a very good measurement, this can result in more monies being remunerated than the original purchase.

This is one of the fuels that stoke the Vintage Valve Market and one I know that has benefitted my choices made for Vintage Mullard Valves.

Alternatively at a later date, an Amp' can be brought in for demo' purposes as a Amp' replacement, that has the same Valves used in the Circuit. This indirectly means that Valves already purchased with a recognised high end sonic quality, can be immediately used on the New Amp' to assist with the assessment. If the New Amp is the preferred Amp' the earlier amp' used can be considered for being sold on with original supplied Valves in place.   

Generally, I would say "yes."

We perform mods on amps and speakers, and reserve "parts swaps" to clearly inferior components. By looking at a photo of the back of the unit, does not appear to be the case here. Without the ability to see the inside, it’s difficult to say, but my guess is that they used "good stuff" on the inside as well. Our "modding" goal is not to paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa, but to try to reveal the sound quality the original designer would have produced if they had a) more time, b) more money, c) "newer" thinking, or other constraints.

The most basic, and surprising, upgrade (for me) is cable quality in both signal and power. Sonic improvements are absolutely shocking in some cases. Snipping off spade and lug connectors and direct silver soldering helps, too. (Warning: going to drop an "F-bomb" here). If you haven’t done so, you might try an audiophile FUSE in place of the OEM fuse. You can usually try and return. And, the unit can be returned to "stock" in seconds. Note, that nothing mentioned above changes internal parts or changes the "basic sonic character" of the amp you already like. Just getting things out of the way that degrade its potential.

We have 2 identical amps on hand. One stock, one not-so-stock. The "modded" amp doesn’t just sound better. It sounds like it was built in a different factory at twice the price of the original amp.

The challenge is finding the "right" tech to do the work with experience with the same amp. Might be easier to find the Matco Tool Guy at a Mary Kay convention?

Good luck.

In most cases, it's probably not a good idea. I definitely wouldn't touch it if it were still under warranty. I got a pair of 60's vintage ALTEC 1570B mono blocks and had them modded using Tom Tutay's mods. These mods made a considerable difference and turned old commercial amps into something special in my two-channel system.

@waytoomuchstuff clearly reflected my points of view on what not to do with pure nonsense ESPECIALLY about FUSE so figure out what's gonna happen after "upgrades". 

No

Unless there is something deficient in the design, or parts have worn out, what is the point? I modded my Willsenton R8 integrated KT88 amp, upgrading and adding some parts (mainly resistors and audio path capacitors, and upgrading a choke) and I tube rolled it. I think it improved the sound a little and it improved the device reliability.

Just buy a new amp....go 300B and sell your old crap;..have fun. this is adventure..not a marriage. 

I modded a PL amp some years ago, film caps, Takman resistors, this along with really nice NOS tubes, especially some of the good Svetlana EL34 from back in the day were very nice improvement. Sold it at market value, still running fine to this day.  Some people will value modded equipment as equal to or higher than stock, others not. I've never let perceived valuations of others dictate my choices. The one thing I'd add is the simpler the circuit and less number of parts a component has the more a single parts change can affect sound quality. Small changes in my present 300B and 845 SET amps (especially the 300B) have made far more difference than those in push pull circuits.

If you mod it you are never going to get the money you invested in it back. Sell it and move on . It will always be a modded PL nothing more but a lot less.

Keep in mind most manufacturers will refuse to service "modded" equipment, because the quality of the mods is all over the place. Some mods actually damage the circuit, or make it unstable and failure prone.

If a manufacturer sees that when they open the can, they’ll close it up and send it back. It’s far more expensive to repair and restore a modded unit back to factory spec than simply build a new one from scratch.

Even when repairing a factory-stock unit, at some point, the repair techs will write it off and swap in new or refurbished circuit boards instead of wasting any more time on a unit with weird untraceable defects. This applies with even more force to mods with no documentation and unknown quality parts.

New-build procedures, at the factory, are rationalized and done to a strict protocol if the manufacturer knows what they are doing (hopefully yes). Anything out of the ordinary takes up time, costs money, and invites errors. This applies with more force to unknown mods which are secret or undocumented. Once any unit is modified, you need to turn to the modifier if you want service in the future.