@simao same here, just like most, if not all here, music is associated with a time and place. As much as it brings back memories, I'm certain I would still like it if I heard it for the first time today, it's just really good music. I had never heard anything like them before and would say still haven’t heard anything like them since. The first time I heard Three Days or Then She Did I was floored. My brother and I have played all sorts of music, including Jane’s, to his son. So at least my nephew will carry on.
As far as REM goes, after reading this thread I went and listened to Murmur. Radio Free Europe is a good tune but I had forgotten how much I like it. I hadn’t intended to but I ended up listening to the entire album. I don’t know if they are underrated but I like them and they made some very good music. Certainly was like nothing else at the time.
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@jastralfu Same here. They were such a part of my musical tapestry, but now no one under the age of 35 has listened to them. Which is not surprising considering those that are now 35 were in single digits when Jane's hit the scene.
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@simao I love Jane’s Addiction. They didn’t get the credit they deserved imo but I don’t really care cause I think they’re great and they always seem to make it into a playlist or two of mine.
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I've often wondered at how some of those artists which formed such an integral part of the 90s Alt rock zeitgeist haven't really stood the test of time among the current masses:
REM
10000 Maniacs
Jane's Addiction
Collective Soul
and others.
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For me, Chronic Town, Murmur and Reckoning are outstanding musical gems. The rest of their stuff doesn’t move me much, but those first three (an EP and 2 albums) are just incredible.
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Roxy, I felt the same when a friend dropped the needle on Murmur and I heard Radio Free Europe for the first time!
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They had a great moment, but by the time the general public knew that they existed, that moment was long over.
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All I can say here conclusively, ones think they are underrated and another think that they're overrated at the end they're pretty-much average on the mean number
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@plasticspoon8
I have allllways thought that the first song on Fables, Begin the Begin, was one of the best album beginnings that I ever heard. It's like a call to arms.
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It’s funny, Fables of the Reconstruction was the one that I started listening to when I was first starting to listen to them again. Now I’m listening to all IRS era albums. IMO they are all great. I’m in a cover band and we play The One I Love and it really rocks.
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There's no question that their later albums were not good, but I also have to wonder if the other members ever told Stipe to just shut up. I guess not, because he never did. By the end I was hating him. I've just reached the point in the last year when I can start listening to the good ones, like Fables of the Reconstruction.
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@dz13 that was an excellent wrap up. To the OP I have read through this entire thread with interest because I have been wondering the same thing about REM. REM were relevant and the critics darlings, with a few missteps, all the way up through New Adventures in Hifi, the last album with Bill Berry as a part of the band. I myself bought UP and Reveal but have not been a fan since Berry left. I also primarily love the IRS years but appreciated them for the entire four piece run. Anyway, as I shopped for vinyl in the mid 2000’s through just a couple of years ago I would find original pressings of IRS era REM for $8 to $12 that were in pristine shape. I bought them because I’m loyal to them and love them, but wasn’t excited because I had sort of moved past them. Now that I’m 53 I’m bringing all my former loves back into the stable and fully appreciate them. The pricing on this vinyl got me wondering. It seemed millennials had not brought REM along into the must have great artists of all time. I am certain if you ran across an original pressing of The Smiths The Queen is dead that it would go for A LOT more than $10. I had someone beg me to buy an original pressing of Belle and Sebastian If you’re feeling sinister for $50 back in 2008ish. As I shop around and go to mainstream places like Barnes and Noble, or even Best Buy, the same stuff is always available. A lot of it amazing and great. Curated by people who know what the “greatest” albums of all time are. Nothing out of the ordinary is ever available. Even something like Murmur has slipped through the cracks and is not included. What’s curious is REM was definitely heading for all time great status but have been left behind. Maybe it’s because they stuck around as a 3 piece putting out less than great albums and maybe it’s because Stipe got to political. I’ll have to give the 3 piece albums another chance but I admit as a big fan that they were outstaying their welcome. I’m glad that a young person has discovered them and that they mean something to you.
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Just turned 40. My favorite bands in my teens were Nirvana, Pavement, and Radiohead. Each one idolized REM. They were definitely still big when I became a budding music nerd circa ‘95.
I tried. Never really stuck.
I’ve periodically retried over the decades. Somewhat inexplicable, my “not getting it,” given all my favorite bands from high school absolutely loved them.
Whatever. ‘Can’t win ‘em all. Perhaps if I had been been borne some ten years earlier it would have been different, I don’t know.
There are definitely a handful of songs I really like.
I think Michael Stripe’s lyrics are some of the best in pop history.
The music has eluded me, I guess.
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Some of these posts are just sad.
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Ignorant comment. Not surprising.
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Notably if a person loves U2, REM, Cold Play and Dave Mathew's band together, then one probably has very poor view to the true definition of music and art in general.
Eww
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@rlb61 "Driver 8" is a great example of what you observed. That manic drumming for the intro and post-chorus compared to his straight-ahead bridge playing.
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As a drummer myself, I can say that Bill Berry was not proficient technically, but he had a perfect "feel" for the music. He played for the tune, and his frenetic playing formed an essential part of the band's musical appeal.
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Just spun Monster. Nice garage rock, one of my favs!
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@dz13 Good call on the college radio explosion of the 80's and how that helped so many bands reach an audience hitherto dependent on mainstream radio for musical exposure to the masses.
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Nope….. not under rated at all! I never got past Murmurs mumbling and drone. Painful…
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RE the U2 - Bono urban legend: even if that story is not true, it probably should be.
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@dz13 - Totally agree about the Ramones; the first 3 are my favorites and I like 'Rocket To Russia' the best. 'Infected' is a great The The album... As for REM, I don't have any of their stuff in my collection, but most of my favorites are on 'Green'.
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Hey @allenf1963, thanks for noticing my post (I think you’re the only one).
It is pretty interesting how a spam post by what I am now almost positive is a bot got everyone talking about music, and that’s great, but I hope no one “rewards” the bot by clicking on the link.
And the reason I’m sure it’s a bot is that this post, also by a “member” who joined days ago, and whose entire history consists of a single discussion started, and a single response (again to its own OP), but this time about “automatic curtain openers,” which apparently is a topic of far less interest than bands of the 80s & 90s (although Erik seems to have taken the bait). The clincher? A link to the same crappy Android app.
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Reading the comments, I have no idea what the this thread is about other than bringing up 80s bands.
Going back to the OP, I have to make a few comments that I usually do about this subject matter. What people who are learning about new bands miss is the context in which the bands formed and developed.
First, there is the time. In the mid-70s, the main way to hear music was the radio. Corporations were buying up radio stations and playing certain formats. In the 1960s and into the mid-70s there were stations that played new stuff and/or album oriented music. That started getting rare and the music that was played on the radio became stale to a lot of us coming of age during that period. You had the stars of the 60s and 70s continuing to have airplay and then it was Top 40. Other than that it was radio silence.
Colleges started their own radio stations and you had to (as the Replacements so smartly said "Left of the Dial" to hear interesting stuff. REM formed while this was going on. Their history was fairly random, some guys who got together and played parties at old abandoned places. Michael Stipe was incredibly shy on stage and you can watch their initial appearance on David Letterman on YouTube. Stipe won't even talk to David Letterman on camera.
One thing I admire about REM is their decision to make it a complete group effort. They voted on things and I believe it had to be unanimous. They split all profits equally so there was no jealousy or issues about one member getting attention or all of the money. And it is a band you can say where all of the members contributed greatly to the music. Even the drummer contributed to songs and some well known songs he has songwriting credits such as Everybody Hurts, Man on the Moon, Driver 8, and Can't Get There From Here.
There were many bands around the same time who were doing similar stuff and sometimes better stuff. REM worked their way up and earned their position and fame. I think Michael Stipe's development into a charismatic lead singer was a very important part of that.
I'd say there stuff, at the beginning sounded very much like indie rock and they developed into an arena-rock band. I personally like their indie rock first four or five albums better than their arena rock stage for the most part.
For some of the other posts, I's say that my favorite "The the" album is "Infected." While I like Marky's contributions, I think the pinnacle for the Ramones is "Rocket to Russia" which had Tommy. Tommy didn't really want to be part of the band, he wanted to produce and he continued to act in that capacity. But he was a big contributor to the Ramones' sound and speed. Good call out to Mitch Easter and Don Dixon and a reminder that Mitch Easter was in his own band Let's Active in North Carolina making similar jangle/indie/pop stuff.
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"Just a thought—does anyone else think seola30 is a bot?"
Rel, after seeing @seola30 repost the entire original question, then post a link to an Android App, THEN write "I got this..." under the link, I asked myself the same question. Like you, I apologize if incorrect...but not a whole lot. F**ing bots are truly ruining a vast number of already dubious forums.
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@seola30 You have a lot of company across the Boomer (my demographic), Gen X, and Millennial generations in your regard for REM. I had grown tired of R&R/pop in the late 70s and transitioned to Classical with a bit of Jazz. I was complaining about pop music in the late 80s to a friend who said I would like REM- he was right.
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@yyzsantabarbara, it's probably not a coincidence that two of THE THE's best (and most consistent) albums were when Johhny Marr was a member of the band [Mind Bomb & Dusk].
@jcwilson makes a very good point: "they (REM) were also pivotal in showing that underground alternative bands could hit it big."
Being able to walk that tightrope between being both "cutting edge" and "commercially accessible" is tough and deserves some recognition.
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Another thing I love about REM is how they end their songs—maybe some of the best endings of any rock band I can think of.
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Solid R.E.M. fan here, and I read through this thread with interest. I'm surprised Around The Sun wasn't mentioned. Every time I listen to it I think, "Damn, this is some good music!"
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Another vote for Mike Mills and his melodic bass. So many great intros.
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REM was absolutely pivotal to the growth of my interest in music growing up in the 80’s. Saw them several times (Harvard track stadium with Husker Du opening!), and a big reason I did the college DJ thing for a few years, which really opened up a wide world of music for me. They were also pivotal in showing that underground alternative bands could “hit it big,” and I think had a very big impact on the music industry as a whole. And of course their run from Chronic Town to Monster was one of the most impressive string of albums I can think of in rock music. I still listen to them, and it warms my heart to hear from younger folks who have discovered them. Happy listening OP.
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@mitchagain Thanks for mentioning "The Comeback Special". What a great concert and the sonics are great on my headphones. I will crank this on 2-channel tomorrow.
A shame Johnny Marr does not play on this one. That guy is why I started listening to deep dives of the THE THE catalog. Incredible guitarist, especially with good audio gear.
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Just a thought—does anyone else think seola30 is a bot?
It’s (his/her/their?) very first post after joining manages to get the pot all stirred up, then it copy-pastes a response to it’s own OP, but the “response” is actually the original post itself, along with a link to some dubious Android app.
Hmmmmmm…
P.S. If you are a real person, seola30, my sincere apologies; but if you’re a bot, you might want to check out this hot new band out of MIT called “The Turing Test,” they offer some very challenging material!
-
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Athens GA was a hot spot for a while in the 80"s. REM, B-52's Drive By Truckers, Mathew Sweet, Love Tractor, Oh-Ok.....
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This joke is older than Bono: Change Bono with Teacher.
Not that I care for Bono and U2 is a horrid band, but this is a total urban legend.
U2 were playing in Glasgow many years ago. In between numbers Bono started clapping his hands slowly and shouted out in his over-emphasized Northern Irish brogue: "Every time I clap my hands a child dies" Immediately the response came from the audience: "Well stop f***ing clapping then". Love that.
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@clearthinker no worries. He was just an example, maybe a divisive one. Besides, talking about politics never led to anything valuable on this forum.
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REM came in with a New sound that no one had heard before by any other group. It was exciting and refreshing. I met them personally. Nice people......."Leaving New York" Great song. Have Alexa play it for you.
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+1 @yyzsantabarbara, "Mind Bomb" by THE THE is a great album. The slower and darker version of "The Beat(en) Generation" on their latest release ("The Comeback Special") better reflects the times that we are living in now, compared to when "Mind Bomb" was released in 1989.
+1 @bdp24, that's the first time I've ever seen FOSTER & LLOYD mentioned in these forums. Now, that is truly an underrated band!
As for REM, I lived in Georgia during much of their heyday. I always thought they were a good band, but not a great one. In retrospect, I'm finding that their music has not held up as well as I would've thought. Now I'm beginning to wonder if REM was The Eagles of the 1980's, a good band that happened to be in the right place at the right time.
I hate to make that comparison, knowing what Gram Parsons said about them, an all time great diss of : "The Eagles are just a dry plastic f**k."
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I've been in a R.E.M. phase in late 2018, they kept me going through the toughest period of my life. A lot of their stuff especially in their incredible 1987-1996 run means a lot to me and have been pivotal in growing my music taste but emotion aside I think quality-wise they were one of the greatest rock band of all time, if not one the best band. I actually think this is not a hot take.
What I think is an interesting thing to discuss is how R.E.M. are relevant to new audiences of my age (I'm 20 btw) like all the music nerds that grew on the Internet (RYM or /mucore) or the music channels or profiles on YouTube and Instagram that review or examine music.
I think that in this demographic area R.E.M. are underrated or more specifically they are put inside the categories of "Gen X bands" like U2 or similar. And i think it's a shame because they have one the best musical palettes of all time provided by really skilled musicians and an incredible and eclectic vocalist and songwriter like Michael Stipe. A band that even when they became globally famous they managed to stay coherent to their sound (until at least the early 90s) and political ethic. Their material should get more recognition among younger audiences like mine considering the huge influence they had on a lot of artist.
What do you think?
I got this,...
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@grislybutter
Sorry Grisly but I just can't abide Bono. A small-minded show-off who thinks he's a politician. There's a great story circulating you may not have heard:
U2 were playing in Glasgow many years ago. In between numbers Bono started clapping his hands slowly and shouted out in his over-emphasised Northern Irish brogue: "Every time I clap my hands a child dies" Immediately the response came from the audience: "Well stop f***ing clapping then". Love that.
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The Clash for sure. The rest are OK, some I am a fan of, but most I can live without.
it's all subjective
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I regularly see and hear the 1980’s disparaged, but that’s a sentiment with which I don’t concur. Yeah, maybe the most widely heard and bought music was not the best, but on the cult level we had a completely different situation.
During the 80’s we had fantastic music being made by Dave Edmunds, Nick Lowe, NRBQ, Ry Cooder, Los Lobos, Marshall Crenshaw, Chris Isaak, Richard Thompson, John Hiatt, John Prine, Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen, Paul Simon, Lyle Lovett, Steve Earle, Little Feat, Elvis Costello, Leo Kottke, Loudon Wainwright III, Dire Straits, X, The Blasters, The Fabulous Thunderbirds, The Neville Brothers, Tom Petty, Dwight Twilley, Crowded House, The Records, The Bangles, The Plimsouls, XTC, Cheap Trick, T Bone Burnett, Peter Case, The Long Ryders, Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Joe Ely, Lucinda Williams, Emmylou Harris, Carlene Carter, Rosanne Cash, Nanci Griffith, Foster & Lloyd (great live!), Warren Zevon, Rickie Lee Jones, Tracy Chapman, Kate Bush, The Replacements, The Lyres (a great Garage Band, if that’s not an oxymoron ;-) , The Clash (I don’t like ’em, but you may), The Pretenders.
Do I need to continue? Not bad for a decade, imo.
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With their folk rocking sincerity and electric-yet-acoustic sound, REM were the closest thing to the Byrds this dyed-in-the-wool Byrds fan ever came across. I listened to Life's Rich Pageant for a good long time. The other LPs, well, maybe not quite as much. Seola30 -- thanks for bringing them up! They're still on my record shelf despite the fact that (forgive the old John Stewart song lyric) I probably haven't thought of them in years.
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and the more political, the more I like them. If I say it, no one cares, no one hears it, I will let Bono say it for me.
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you have 100s of great bands to discover - I envy you - I mean 100s that are better than REM. And that’s not against REM, it’s just that there are so many great bands since the 60s.
I think the 80s were the bleakest decades for rock music, and it's sad because I was a teenager then. Maybe that's why I grew up on 60s music.
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Sad to see how this thread deteriorated from the OP's premise. Music means so much to so many, It warms my heart to hear that REM made a connection to you that helped you through hard times. That is what the best of music is about. Be your own man and ignore the flamers who are bashing the band that was important to you. Ignore the crap responses telling you what to listen to. Instead keep listening to what connects to you, who cares about what others thought was important when prop planes ruled the skies and hi-fi was recorded on 8 track mixers???? Back to your question, IMO, REM was the real deal. My opinion matters not, but when you're listening to music how it makes you feel is everything.
Cheers and best wishes
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