OP here, thanks to suggestions offered here I tried the following:
1. move chair closer to speakers to form an equilateral triangle rather than isoceles and turn the speakers to straight ahead position. result- a wider soundstage!!!
But I cant leave well alone , so
2. toe the speakers in so that they point right at my head. Result- soundstage shrank towards center but gained depth and instruments &voices seemed more focused. Also noticed that some upper frequency hash was reduced which altered the tonal balance down a bit.
Which did I choose? I 'm not telling. Maybe I will go halfway...maybe not!
I always thought I had got my speaker placement right years ago but I have learned it pays to experiment
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The Zobel networks are the simple and super effective fix. I could have never imagined. But now every record is a concert with the musicians standing realistically across a vivid soundstage. On AG they are called Deulund-Mundorf Ultra Speaker Purifiers.
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Just read an interesting about extreme toe in, I tried it; aimed the left channel to the extreme right of my listening area and vice versa. You can use a laser measuring device to really dial it in. I'm still on the fence about it; the only problem I "see' doing this is that I'll have to get a bigger chair/couch😁
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I hope you find a solution with toe in. I have Spendor speakers also. Big SP100's. And I am obsessed with getting imaging outside of the side of the speakers. When set up just right (as they are presently, with toe in directly at my ears) they not only throw images outside of the sides of the speakers but almost wrap around my listening chair. Of course this requires a recording that will do this. For example,Blue Note Jazz records never do this in my system. But try Kruder & Dorfmeister - DJ-Kicks - High Noon found on Youtube. Even on my Bose computer speakers the imaging is way outside the speakers.
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Buy Magneplaners. Have an expert set them up IN YOUR ROOM.
If they do not give you what you are seeking, I have no further suggestions other than change your hardware or sources.
Cheers!
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The best way to investigate this is buy a couple of good absorptive panels (a pair of the ATS 2 inch deep, 24x36 panels off Amazon), hang them on the wall at the first reflection points and see what happens. I’m betting your imaging improves dramatically. It’s not an expensive experiment and can be reversed very easily.
Brad
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I dream of a dedicated audio room.
I dream of obtaining a 3D enhancer BAACH dsp crosstalk cancelling component. Reviews extremely positive
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@mglik
How did you diagnose the problem and decide to use a Zobel network? I've seen the Deulund-Mundorf Speaker Purifiers for sale.
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Reflections must not be suppressed completely OR enhanced over absorption ...
Yes, like in a concert hall. Too many audiophiles have over damped rooms.
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Reflections must not be suppressed completely OR enhanced over absorption ...
They must be USED in some RATIO and some TIMING....balance between reflections, absortion and diffusion in a specfic room is the key....
Lateral reflections and back reflections especially...
Why my soundscape is so good otherwise?
My dac brand name alleged quality?
No....
My speakers brand name alleged design ?
No....
My amplifier brand name miraculous power?
No ....
Basic acoustic and psycho-acoustic knowledge and experiments...Yes....
😁😊
Suppress early reflections more, or find a way to enhance them?
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Treat your room.
Suppress early reflections more, or find a way to enhance them?
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To “purify” is the key.
There exist three embeddings dimensions to control: electricial one is only one...
Vibrations/resonance negative effect of the gear is hugely underestimated too...
Vibrations mechanical control is a key...I know you know it well using springs like me...it is a transformative move to control vibrations...
But acoustic is the last and more important key and more complex to get it right than the other 2....And hugely more impactful for all acoustic cues...
But no embedings control alone , be it mechanical, electrical or acoustical can replace the other 2...None.... Acoustic control cannot decrease the negative effect of the speakers vibrations for example ...
Then there exist three keys...
But trust me acoustic is the more impactful for sound perception ....
My best to you....
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I had serious issues with my soundstage and imaging.
But it appears to be caused by hash or noise in my high treble.
These issues were solved by the addition of what are known as Zobel networks plugged into the binding posts of my speakers. In my case, those are the treble ones of the two pair. There is a fellow on AG who has built these: Deulund-Mundorf Speaker Purifiers. I think these can be built using those caps and resistors with a heat sink. Although the component values are custom made for the Ohm rating of your speakers. They do not interfere with the built in speaker crossovers since they only effect HF 12K Hz and above.
I had thought that my speaker placement or room were to blame. Not the case!
Now after about 150 hours of break in for the caps, imaging is pinpoint and the soundstage is wide and deep. I guess it’s like getting a pair of highly upgraded tweeters. It is clear that the former HFs were “dirty”. To “purify” is the key.
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Treat your room.
Yes but treating a room with passive absorbing or rflective surfaces or difusive one, is not the same thing as controlling the room mechanically...
Thats the point of my posts...
passive treatment is necessary and also some mechanical control with Helmholtz resonators and diffusers...
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Very great informative and on the spot post... Thanks....
I think the same and my experience corroborate your impression about acoustic even if our system/room are different... ...
I don’t feel it’s appropriate to think of room reflections as distortion. Ideally they add something nice to the listening experience. Our brain is very adept at discerning the original signal from a reflection most of the time, so distortion in equipment will generally have a more damaging effect to our listening pleasure than a room reflection, although in some cases reflections can sound very bad and ruin the sound quality. Stereo imaging is already messed up in a simple 2 channel configuration due to immediate crosstalk from the speakers reaching both ears. This is probably why most people don't enjoy 2 channel audio in an anechoic space, while more channels with a good mix can sound very good. With just 2 channels it can be argued that we really need some appropriate reflections to smooth out the otherwise intense crosstalk comb filtering created when 2 channels are playing the same thing to create a center image. I can relate to rrm’s frustration and have had to strike a balance between imaging precision and a more enveloping and spacious experience. My speakers are fairly narrow in their dispersion above 600Hz and that makes for very little of the beyond the speaker experience, except with that Roger Waters stuff, and at least one Madonna album I heard. There’s more than just getting that effect though. Listening to a wider dispersion speaker with great off axis smoothness that my co-worker brought in to the office, I was beguiled by the life and vividness it added to have more early reflections informing my ears. Sounds seem to hang in the air around the speakers like halos. Honestly I don’t get the effect of live acoustic instruments ever doing that but I like it! It comes at the expense of a very shimmery high end that could get fatiguing, like looking at sparklers for too long. They’re pretty but they’ll burn a hole in your retina. Still, I’m tempted to re-do my mid and high horns for a bit wider dispersion to add a little zest.
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I don’t feel it’s appropriate to think of room reflections as distortion. Ideally they add something nice to the listening experience. Our brain is very adept at discerning the original signal from a reflection most of the time, so distortion in equipment will generally have a more damaging effect to our listening pleasure than a room reflection, although in some cases reflections can sound very bad and ruin the sound quality. Stereo imaging is already messed up in a simple 2 channel configuration due to immediate crosstalk from the speakers reaching both ears. This is probably why most people don't enjoy 2 channel audio in an anechoic space, while more channels with a good mix can sound very good. With just 2 channels it can be argued that we really need some appropriate reflections to smooth out the otherwise intense crosstalk comb filtering created when 2 channels are playing the same thing to create a center image. I can relate to rrm’s frustration and have had to strike a balance between imaging precision and a more enveloping and spacious experience. My speakers are fairly narrow in their dispersion above 600Hz and that makes for very little of the beyond the speaker experience, except with that Roger Waters stuff, and at least one Madonna album I heard. There’s more than just getting that effect though. Listening to a wider dispersion speaker with great off axis smoothness that my co-worker brought in to the office, I was beguiled by the life and vividness it added to have more early reflections informing my ears. Sounds seem to hang in the air around the speakers like halos. Honestly I don’t get the effect of live acoustic instruments ever doing that but I like it! It comes at the expense of a very shimmery high end that could get fatiguing, like looking at sparklers for too long. They’re pretty but they’ll burn a hole in your retina. Still, I’m tempted to re-do my mid and high horns for a bit wider dispersion to add a little zest.
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I believe you...
I live the same experience in my own way...
Components and diffusor and Diffuser/absorber room treatment.
One of my rooms.....
Omni speakers....
Diffusors......
Diffuser/absorbers for 1st reflection points
(Previously used for direct radiators but still are magical)
Vaulted ceilings...
Panoramic yet convincingly real and live recordings are simply incredible.
1200 dollar system sounds like 12k or better.
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Components and diffusor and Diffuser/absorber room treatment.
One of my rooms.....
Omni speakers....
Diffusors......
Diffuser/absorbers for 1st reflection points
(Previously used for direct radiators but still are magical)
Vaulted ceilings...
Panoramic yet convincingly real and live recordings are simply incredible.
1200 dollar system sounds like 12k or better.
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Laps... There are many fine full-range speakers which require toe-in for optimal SQ according to designer’s instructions. Off the top of my head, Audio Note, Devore, Klipsch. Devore also recommends raking the speakers.
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It is easy to hear bad reflection because too great amount or bad timing between them...
Acoustic is really about how to train our ears....it takes only time, no money....
And i used also re- configuration of pressures zones of the room with Helmholtz resonators and diffusers..Very powerful....
@mahgister I didn’t read your manifesto but I hope he isn’t just suffering from bad reflections. I did address that in my original post. --Jerry
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Buy a dozen 6' artificial ficus trees and place a couple behind the speakers, between the speakers, nest to the speakers to diffuse wall reflections behind your listening position and int he corners behind the speakers. Last I looked these artificial trees were $40 each at the At Home store.
These artificial ficus trees act as very effective diffusers. They are easily moved and can help "fix" a room.
You can add more (I'm up to around 18).
That's a start, and a LOT cheaper than audiophile room treatment.
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@mahgister I didn't read your manifesto but I hope he isn't just suffering from bad reflections. I did address that in my original post. --Jerry
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Why?
Because of the Soundstage, to include every system I’ve owned, plus the live venue’s I’ve attended over the last 55 years. The only speakers I have toed in are studio monitors on stands for near field computer generated audio.
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Personally, I would never purchase speakers that were recommended or required to be toed in.
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Spendor broacher advertising shows their speakers facing directly forward while their Frequently Asked Questions shows toe in aimed at each ear at the listening position which appears to be a very slight isosceles triangle.
Using a familiar or proper recording I'd begin with the manufacturers triangle instructions. Moving a wheeled office chair slowly nearer and farther after any location adjustment may offer you some insight in determining the staging.
My speakers were designed for wide forward facing. Using an approximation of the golden thirds speaker and listening positioning has yield massive staging and acoustical speaker disappearance in my very reflective room.
You could hire an experienced dealer to do the setup. Best of luck with it.
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Newbee mirrors what i have found...little wider soundstage moving apart and toeing in (over your shoulder) to remove 1st reflections...speaker from front wall measured by tweeter.I think too far from front can loose sound stage...read you dont want side/wall and front/wall the same feet apart.Moving your chair up into Triangle/soundstage is another thing to try and see were imaging is best.Dont over dampen room...leave some liveness?
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rrm, Your room dimensions are close to identical to mine. Our set up is a bit different in that my speakers are 5 1/2’ from the back wall and I listen on axis about 9 ft back (about 4 1/2 ft from the wall behind the chair . I’ve minimized side wall bounce and have irregular diffusing stuff on wall behind speakers. If you can you might try moving your speakers a bit closer to the side walls and increasing your toe in to minimize first reflections off the side wall. Toe in slightly in front of your head could help depending on the design of your speakers. Something closer to an equilateral triangle. It could/should perhaps give you a soundstage that fills the wall behind your speakers (assuming that the information is in the recording). Good luck.
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OP here,
Gosh, I never thought to provoke so many heated comments. Thanks to all who made positive comments and suggestions.
My living room is 14x19, speakers are on the short wall ,about 3 ft out from the wall and 3.5 ft from the side walls, very slightly toed in. I listen about 8 ft back. There are 3 windows with heavy curtains, Carpet over wood floor, no room treatments. Tonal response is good.
the speakers are in phase according to a test record. As to polarity I have no idea how to test individual components and doubt that it can be changed on any component.
Again thanks to those who gave advice.
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The original poster is nowhere to be found,while others fight amongst themselves. We don't know much about his room. So I will cast a wide net of ideas. I messed around with my system for a couple years before I was satified with the sound. Your speakers look nice and should image well. Here are some factors that could cause your symptom:
Too close to side walls
Too close to back wall
Wired wrong
Excessive phase cancelling due to reflections, comb filtering
A sub can help focus the playback
Springs under speakers. This helps but something else is wrong.
If you have a dedicated room, then this is easier. Some of the setups mixed with furniture in living areas will sound just like your system does now. My guess is room treatment but need more information.
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There is no PERFECT REPRODUCTION from a recorded cd or vinyl, there is ALWAYS a RELATIVE TRANSLATION from the recorded acoustical cues of the original lived event, but interpreted and selected by the trade-off calculus of the recording engineer INTO your speakers/room acoustic relation ..
A relative translation never an identical reproduction is possible...
Agreed. Cutting to the chase, I think any audiophile would know this.
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Thanks for your approval or interest...
I am a retired old fool who take refuge in music after my acoustic journey ending, against a world becoming completely mad...
No common basis of discussion...
in sound/music the common basis is essentially acoustic and psycho-acoustic...Gear choices so important they are, are second to acoustic ... Guess why?
In geopolitic it is simple agreed facts are the common basis not propaganda....
If we cannot look for a common basis of discussion grounded in simple facts in the world, not propaganda, there will be no peace; and if we cannot look for a common basis of dicsussion grounded in acoustic facts not gear obsession there will be no musical acoustic optimal experience ...
Different worlds, same madness... Propaganda or publicity, always lies....
+1 mahgister
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This is a myth coming from the gear fetichism obsession and ignorance in most audiophile circle...
And dont confuse my perspective with the obsessed objectivist measures deluded crowd facing the subjectivist "tasting" gear crowd by the way....two groups linked by the same gear fetichism but in opposing direction... 😁😊
There is no PERFECT REPRODUCTION from a recorded cd or vinyl, there is ALWAYS a RELATIVE TRANSLATION from the recorded acoustical cues of the original lived event, but interpreted and selected by the trade-off calculus of the recording engineer INTO your speakers/room acoustic relation ..
You have here one set of acoustic choices translated to another set of acoustic choices determined by the geometry, the topology, and the acoustic content of your room...
A relative translation never an identical reproduction is possible... Acoustic and psycho-acoustic science determine what is sound and music experience in a room... Not electronical engineering by itself alone sorry...
No acoustian give a dam about gear fetichism, no musician either , guess why?
Think about it....
My goal is to reproduce the recording as accurately as possible.
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"Again, you’re off on your own island and I don’t even understand you."
That is exactly why he is awesome...
+1 mahgister
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If this album soundscape is only in between your speakers common plane, and dont fill the room with the organ near your listening position outside of the speaker completely and the drum behind the speakers with the sax in front of the speaker, your speaker room relation is not well controlled...
one of my favorite guitarist...
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@mahgister
I do believe in tweaks. Most are supported by scientific principles, but there are a few out there that improve sound quality but defy explanation as to how. So, I never criticize a person who uses a tweak that I don't understand. It's their system, so go ahead and enjoy it.
It took years to get my modest system to sound right. Realistic tonal qualities are what I'm hearing. My goal is to reproduce the recording as accurately as possible. And yeah, often the source has been manipulated, ie, enhanced soundstaging, but that's what the engineer has given us.
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Nobody need the same exact "tweaks" nor gear, nor exact room treatment or room control..
But everybody need minimal room acoustic and vibrations control and a lower electrical noise floor ..
it seems you have it with your own room /system...
If your sound is not confined in between the speakers axis only and if the instrument timbre and imaging is good...Congratulations!
These are different genres. I don’t have the tweaks that @mahgister uses. I use balanced power conditioning, component isolation, with equilateral triangle speaker setup and room treatments.
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Mahler Symphony 6, Barbirolli/New Philharmonia. Warner Classics 2021 remaster
Pink Floyd, Obscured by Clouds, "Mudmen." Sony Music
Beethoven Symphony no.6, Chailly/Gewandhaus Leipzig. Decca 2011
Pat Metheny, Watercolors, title track. ECM 1977 original mastering
Playback is Qobuz through Node2i. Soundstage is wide and deep, well beyond the speakers.
These are different genres. I don’t have the tweaks that @mahgister uses. I use balanced power conditioning, component isolation, with equilateral triangle speaker setup and room treatments.
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See one of my first post above in this thread this recording of the Three penny opera of Kurt weill amazingly well recorded...
When i listen to is see singers all around waliking, truning their head, the oechestra behind speakers and voices all around me outside speakers, and even beside and NEAR my ears and almost coming from my back....
Acoustic control of the room explain why my room is able to translate the recording cues in my room environment...
Maghister, please give example recordings where the soundscape extends well beyond the loudspeakers. Thank you very much in advance.
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Maghister, please give example recordings where the soundscape extends well beyond the loudspeakers. Thank you very much in advance.
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Comical!
First your remark here made absolutely no sense at all because the acoustic of a personal room dont need to be the exact replica of a mixing studio :
Uh, I doubt the recording engineers used Helmholtz resonators when they mixed the recording.
Here it is easy to understand that you listen to your system perhaps in some room with some acoustic passive treatment but not to a mechanically controlled room if the sound scape of your system/room stay between the speakers 95 % of the time.... This illustrate the importance of Helmholtz mechanical control for fine tuning specific speakers to as specific room...Because most of my albums not only have imaging but a depth sound scape out the speakers surface axis in the front/back direction , not so often in the left/right direction outside of the speaker... like i say in some rare recording it is even better, my soundscape may come AROUND me and from behind or some voices be beside my ears with the orchestra behind the speakers inside the wall...
lso, as a reviewer I got to hear many $500k+ systems in well-treated rooms, and in NONE of them did I hear 50% of the sound coming from outside the speakers unless the recording called for it, and 95% do not
Also being a reviewer you may probably be like many audiophile a "gear fetichist" sorry, ignoring the power of acoustic and especially of psycho-acoustic, thinking that S.Q’ come directly from the system speakers instead of the system/room...
Divide the speed of sound by the size of your room if you want to know how many times in one second the soundwaves crossed your room and your ears to understand how REFLECTED waves play also a fundamental role even in NEAR listening position in most small room...In my room it is 13 times per second....If you want to know my room dimension use the speed of sound and make this child calculus...
You sell gear upgrade, i sell creativity and acoustic method at no cost in a dedicated room...
By the way i never pretended that my system is BETTER than most, it is only a relatively well chosen basic low cost one vintage; in the contrary i know perfectly well that half people in audiogon own better system than mine BUT IN BAD ACOUSTIC environment or in not so well treated and controlled room for sure....
My bet, you’ve constructed a room that radically diffuses the sound so you get width at the expense of center fill. You could get that much easier with some cheap Bose 901s. Again, you’re off on your own island and I don’t even understand you.
You are comical ...I dont bet often myself sorry, i made 2 years listening experiments in my room, enough to know that between DIFFUSION/ ABSORPTION/ REFLECTION, what matter is the appropriate ratio to apply for a scpecific speakers/room /ears relation...
And by the way the first acoustical factor to get right to begin with and the last one to get right in an ongoing set of experiments is naturalness of TIMBRE perception...You cannot have timbre right with DISTORTIONS and excess of diffusion , or excess of absorption or excess of reflections... You cannot have piano timbre right in a bad pressure zones room distribution... Read about timbre perception in acoustic and psycho acoustic...
Timbre perception is the most important acoustic cue... The guide to tune a room, not listener envelopment factor, not imaging and not soundstage...Because you can have "some" imaging with an imperfect system/ room but you cannot have a good instrument timbre in an imperfectly controlled room... Natural sounding Timbre is the hallmark of audiophile experience...
You dont understand me because you read too much audio articles magazine and not enough acoustic/psycho acoustic basic...I dont read marketing article ...
Try Helmholtz...And dont bet about room acoustic you dont know about....
All acoustic effects you dont know about are not explained by alleging "out of phase effect " from the audio system, or excess diffusion or excess reflections in a room ...
I am not deaf, i dont listen to any of my 7 headphones, do you think that i prefer distortions all across my room to a good Stax headphone?
If i could bet with you, i will bet you never know what the acoustical definition of "listener envelopment "means in psycho-acoustic, and the way to gain it, and i bet you never wrote about it in your reviews about the gear...
It is a safer bet than reducing my room to be a distorted mirror with no coherency because you dont know acoustic basic BY YOURSELF AND WITH YOUR EARS experiments......
😁😊😊😊😊😊
I apologize for my impertinent answer to your presomtuous post...
My best to you....
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Well, I know it's possible to achieve what the OP has asked about, but it takes work and a recording that presents the required soundstage. I listen to large scale classical and quartets/quintets. If the recording is mic'd and engineered well I get to enjoy a wide and deep soundstage with a layered and focused image. The full orchestra extends beyond my speakers and each section of instruments is well defined. My all tube system plays a role in this presentation. Of course there are many recordings that don't extend beyond the speakers, but the soundstage extends from speaker to speaker with a focused image. BTW, in post #2 of this thread I stated that the OP needs to check if his system is in phase and are there any components that invert polarity. I don't think we got an answer.
My room is acoustically treated as much as a listening/living room can be. Following the instructions of John Devore for setting up his speakers is what locked the image into place. It doesn't take a masters degree in acoustic engineering to properly set up a listening room, no disrespect to that member. Maybe it helps that I know what to listen for due to my years working as an audio engineer.
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tThen tune them like i described and transform them in an Helmholtz resonators or in a diffuser and you will begin to understand.
Uh, I doubt the recording engineers used Helmholtz resonators when they mixed the recording. Also, as a reviewer I got to hear many $500k+ systems in well-treated rooms, and in NONE of them did I hear 50% of the sound coming from outside the speakers unless the recording called for it, and 95% do not. If you’re hearing 50% of the sound coming from outside your speakers, you’re out of phase unless every other ultra high-end system I’ve heard is wrong. Or, maybe you just have a “magic system” that is mysteriously better than every system out there is wrong. My bet, you’ve constructed a room that radically diffuses the sound so you get width at the expense of center fill. You could get that much easier with some cheap Bose 901s. Again, you’re off on your own island and I don’t even understand you.
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+1 @mahgister. Obviously you have spent many years with the time involved with the development of your sound room. Unfortunately, while many of us would love to have a dedicated sound room, it is for the most part not a practical undertaking. That leaves some of us with very challenging room environments, but I applaud your knowledge regarding your experiences and advice.
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Sorry but out of phase cannot be coherent like the acoustic factor which is "listener envelopment"aka LEV...And nobody will put 7 headphones in a closet like i did because of out of phase effect in his room is not it ?...
Educate yourself in basic acoustic...I even post a doctoral thesis explaining it in a post above...
Most of the times my music is in a depth dimension in the axis back/front and my soundscape impression are like an headphone intimate listening but the sound is out ofmy head...
My room is dedicated and contains at least 100 Helmhotz resonators, and diffusers also... A grid of 12 cheap Shumann resonators, 3 types of ionizers, a passive material treatment also with a balance between absorption, reflection, and diffusion...
I use also a wood screen behind me with many acoustic resonators and diffusers using with it the back reflections and lateral one to create this headphone effect...
The sound fill my room OUTSIDE of the speakers plane ...
if you dont know anything about acoustic for sure you dont know how to create listener envelopment and you dont even know what is the Helmhotz method...
Then in your ignorance it is better to explain my soundscape by "out of phase" effects but anyone reading my description about my acoustic coherent soundstage and imaging and listener envelopment know immediately that distortion cannot create a coherent image for all albums with different audible acoustic cues; and out of phase effect even if they are in my room cannot ERASE my acoustic devices power by itself anyway....
If you dont understand something it does not means that my posts make no sense... It means you dont KNOW the power of acoustic in a speakers/room relation... You are not alone, most audiophile ignoring acoustic speak about their gear in a fetichist way, ignoring that we listen to the Systen/room not to the system ALONE and by itself....
If someone has never lived through an acoustic transformation it is unbelivable anyway....i spoke by experience and experiments....
Experiment you may try at NO COST : put a set of plumber tubes vertically in your room of different lenght, do nothing else, the change negative or positive will be evident... Then tune them like i described and transform them in an Helmholtz resonators or in a diffuser and you will begin to understand...This is a mechanical tuning of the room by Helmholtz method but this cannot replace passive material treatment no more than passive material treatment alone can replace Helmholtz mechanical method...Acoustic is more complex than " buy an upgrade and plug it in the wall " yes....But it is also more powerful than most uppgrade anyway and cannot be replace by an upgrade...Most people dont get it anyway ....
This is only a simple experiment , no cost at all...Some junk discarded plumber tubes of various size is better...After assessing for yourself the negative or positive effect you will know and then the hard task will be fine tuning.... it takes only time and fun listening of music... Simple no ?
Acoustic at the end process alas! is a complex set of experiments yes, but it may cost NOTHING...I never bought any costly products.... Then have fun....It cost time and listening experiments yes to fine tune a system/room relation...but it is fun....
LIke me you will perhaps discover that upgrading your gear may be meaningless considering the ratio S.Q. / price ratio you already enjoy after acoustic tuning...
My best to you, apologizing for my rant, but that can be useful for someone here if not for you....
After all, how many people inform us all about acoustic power in audio thread with words enough powerful to ask for the attention necessary in this IMPORTANT audiophile underestimated matter ? Not many and those who speak about spoke about it with a too low voice to be understood in the general gear fetichism pervading audio thread...
+1 @newbee and @mahgister your system is wired out of phase if this is what you hear. Frankly, I don’t understand half your posts, and the other half I just flat out disagree with. You’re an odd duck dude.
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Half of my recorded albums at LEAST and more present sound outside of the back/front and left /right vertical plane between the speakers
+1 @newbee and @mahgister your system is wired out of phase if this is what you hear. Frankly, I don’t understand half your posts, and the other half I just flat out disagree with. You’re an odd duck dude.
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You might want to use the following youtube clip for testing, which I believe is a good recording. Set up your speakers placement according to the actual stage and see if the SS within or beyond the speakers. Also close your eyes to feel the depth of the SS and how well each instrument is separated. In my living room where the side walls are not closed by, the SS created by my system is indeed wider than speakers and I could pinpoint the position of each performer. You need to move the speakers away from front wall to acquire the SS depth. You could also turn the speakers with slight toe-in angles to improve the images but not too much to affect the SS width.
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@onhwy61
Good quote. I respect Robert’s opinion a great deal.
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