Music Server Advice

I can't advise between your options but can comment on the Aurenders. I went from a home-built server with a lot of top-end components to an N10 and the N10 blew the server away.

But the app. It's terrible (others will argue). Aurender is not responsive to improvement requests, from me and many others, including on forums where their US tech maintains a presence- yeah, we'll look into it. But nothing. My comparison is to JRiver. I'm not looking for a JRiver experience from their app, but there are certainly many areas where they could make improvements. Bottom line, however, the app works.

I agree with you jaybe that the N10 sounds much better than my present setup. However, I do a lot of exploring on Roon to find vinyl releases and it is critical that I keep this function. I'm considering keeping Roon through another pseudo-system and using that for the same "discovery" purpose, exporting the list to Excel and searching/auditioning/listening using the Aurender app. Thx for your reply.

I have a barely used Gen 10 NUC that I need to sell. Yesterday I cancelled Roon. I agree that the Roon app is far superior to Conductor, but as you go up the Aurender line the sound improves and for me it is about the music presentation. After all, isn’t that why we spent so much on our analog system? An automatic turntable is much more convenient, but I bet that isn’t what you are using. Aurender uses my NAS and the internal SSD for local storage and the reproduction is first rate due to the fact that all is played locally. What I mean is that the NAS server data is uploaded to the Aurender’s internal memory (cached) and played from there. Pretty sure that you know all of that and I will admit that many are in your camp and will not move from Roon due to feature set and hats off to Roon Labs.

A bit more responsive to your question, add an external clock if possible and play with your Ethernet cable and filter just prior to entering your player.

Your response above appeared while I was typing. Roon is the best tool for searching by a specific parameter. I probably do more searching for music on the Apple Music app than Conductor, but Roon is unique. I have been cutting back on record purchases because my digital is very good and because I’ve started to listen to music that just isn’t available on record.  Many small record companies now offer high resolution downloads for a comparable cost to vinyl, but again music on the Aurender is played from cache, so not sure that paying for downloads is useful except where the music isn’t streamed.

I use Roon to explore "new to me" jazz artists, usually from Europe. If I like it I'll search to see if it's on vinyl and if so I purchase it. (Discogs, Bandcamp, etc.) You'd be surprised how much music is actually available on vinyl, but not sold/marketed in the US. I don't download music at all. I can still use Roon for that purpose. You're correct about my viny rig. It's anchored by an Ortofon MC Diamond and sounds simply amazing and is my preference. But I also like digital and want it to sound as good as I can afford, thus my reason for reaching out to the AGon community. 

I'll add that the vinyl versions do not always sound better than the digital stream! As I acquire more vinyl it's appearing as if more record labels are capitalizing on the resurgence of vinyl and releasing vinyl just for the sake of releasing vinyl with little regard for sound quality. There are streams I'm listening to with my current setup that are truly wonderful sounding and prefer over the vinyl counterpart.

You’re right about vinyl quality. For the brief time I toyed with vinyl again a few years ago I was appalled at the quality of some of the offerings. Surface noise in some cases was obvious, meaning they’re using low-grade regrind material, as well as just plain bad masterings. I won’t get into the pricing lol.

Not sure you’re aware, but there are a few websites for researching recordings and their quality. I often use Discogs, DR Database, and Hoffman Music Corner for this purpose. And AllMusic for music quality. Not for everything, but definitely worth checking out if you haven’t already.

How do you feed your Esoteric D-05x from your NUC?

 

By the way, the Innuos Pulse you mention is not a server. It is just a streamer. You would still be running Roon Core in your NUC with it, there is no other way to use Roon with Innuos Pulse. You would need a separate machine for server (Roon Core) duties.

You are correct about the Pulse. I fed it with the Nuc as Roon Core. I feed the D-05x directly from the NUC via USB. The D-05x is a Roon endpoint. 

The D-05x is a Roon endpoint.

If you fed your D-05x via USB from NUC, the D-05x in not an endpoint. Endpoint is the Roon lingo for "streamer". The NUC would be in your scenario both the Roon Core and the Roon Endpoint. Not optimal for sure, certainly not optimal to use the NUC as the streamer. 

I you really like to try Innuos, you can get a ZENith or a Statement, that can be both the Core and the Streamer, feeding your DAC (the D-05x) via USB.

I also assume you know Aurender does not do Roon? You should know since you have had Roon since inception. 

 

My nomenclature may be in error but functionally the Nuc feeds the D-05x via USB. I wanted to do away with using the NUC and thought that the Pulse would do that.  I quickly found out during setup that I still needed the NUC. (I know about Innuos other offerings, but I don't need or want a CD ripper.) I  knew the Aurender wasn't Roon so I tried the Aurender App and felt paralyzed by the learning curve. However, it sounded very good. So now after having both the Pusle (didn't like the sound) and the Aurender N10, I'm willing to part with using Roon as my primary interface and delve into Aurender's app. My strategy has evolved to using Roon just to discover new music and use Aurender, or other software related to another device for my primary digital listening. I also inquired about the N200 and other streamer suggestions.

I always go for sound quality first and skip the add on functions. Hence I have two Aurender… they just sound better. Given your excellent equipment I would be using an Aurender streamer. 
 

For me I have learned to use the app and since I am on an iPad already it is really easy to Reseach albums with AllMusoc and Google then find them in Qobuz. 

I will throw in a plug for the Aurender N200, it is just a tick better than the N10 which it replaced. It is very good.

I had a Lampizator Pacific DAC that was pretty good. Then I added the Lucas Audio LDMS Music Server. Oh my, the SQ was night and day better. You should contact Lucas Domansky utilizing What’s Ap ( Free phone call) and just talk to him about your needs. He is a computer genius and a great guy to talk to for advice. I am getting an upgraded LDMS next week, My current LDMS will be available to buy. Lucas wanted me to keep it in the USA and as he gets a customer he will sell mine which is 18 months old. He said he would sell for $8k. that is just a little higher than your budget but well well worth it.

Actually Innous has  a new $4k model using Mundorfs oil capacitors if you want a warmer tonal balance .

the 432evo aeon is comparable to much more expensive servers we compared the aeon to a 25k innous statement with the upgraded psu

 

we also compared to theaurender n20 and the evo was better our servers are 100percent upgradable and are designed to run Roon properly we are a full core and endpoint in one.

One listen and you will be hooked the evo sounds more like analog with its 432 plug in and selectable filters.

Dave and Troy

Audiointellect nj

432evo us importers

 

If you use usb, then save your money because usb will never give you the best sq no matter which server or tweak/gimmick you apply. 

@commumique1  I agree with you re the Aurender app but beware the Auralic app is as bad if not worse.

@communique1

If you don’t wanna give up on ROON then consider the alternative from CAD’s CAT, Grimm Audio - MU1 and one of many Wolf Audio offerings. I was at AXPONA recently and I got to hear all the server/streamers from the top names, including EVO432, Auralic (full stack with clock) Innuos Statement and Aurender N30SA.

The app interface is an important part of the streaming experience. I have been an Aurender user for 10plus years, it is the only brand I found to be well balanced and consistent in all areas, i.e. sound, build and robust app. The Conductor app takes little getting used to and it is certainly not as fancy as ROON but more importantly it does not do any manipulation of your digital bitstream. Their focus always been an optimized audio performance over a fancy app interface like ROON that consistently manipulates incoming bitstream and compromised performance.

I am also a lifetime ROON subscriber but stream through Aurender 99.9% of the time. Once you done messing around with ROON, consider a Aurender N200 or N20 and call it a day :-) 

Trial the Euphony Stylus software. Then, once you hear it's in a class of its own, buy a Summus from Euphony or a ridiculously cheap used Pink Faun.

Or, repurpose your NUC, get another, and run Stylus and its endpoint in a dual pc set-up.

I’m an Esoteric fan. I have an N05 Network player with a Qnap NAS. I use this thru my home Ethernet network with fiber connection before the N05. The NAS was easy to set up so if you can do that sort of thing I would recommend it over the “all in one” proprietary solutions out there. I’m not saying anything against them, but my set up gives me more flexibility and upgrade ability. The Esoteric has super capacitors among other noise deterring features. That along with the fiber tx and rx in my Ethernet line, I’m extremely satisfied!

Check out SmallGreenComputer.com.  I have been using their products, and the Sonore products they sell for years.  Very reliable, easy to use, and fantastic support from Andrew.  IMHO, they offer great value by keeping their casework simple and eschewing expensive marketing.  The sound is wonderful, and I am using mostly their entry level kit.  I would imagine their better offerings would be competitive with many more expensive options.  They have a 30 day return option, too.

 

 

lalitk

If you don’t wanna give up on ROON then consider the alternative from CAD’s CAT, Grimm Audio - MU1 and one of many Wolf Audio offerings. I was at AXPONA recently and I got to hear all the server/streamers from the top names, including EVO432, Auralic (full stack with clock) Innuos Statement and Aurender N30SA.

I am also a lifetime ROON subscriber but stream through Aurender 99.9% of the time. Once you done messing around with ROON, consider a Aurender N200 or N20 and call it a day :-) 

I am also interested in the Grimm Audio - MU1,  Aurender N200, or N20. 

I have never been able to audition these fine pieces of equipment and would be very interested if you could give us a detailed explanation of your observations with your experienced ears on what you heard at AXPONA.  I have the equipment that could easily benefit from their abilities.  Thank you. 

I casually mentioned Computer Audio Design’s CAT in my last post. This is a relatively new product that doesn’t get lot of press here. If you mind extra boxes and added cost, CAT server is worth check out with an external power supply and one of the CAD grounding module. 
https://www.computeraudiodesign.com/cad-cat/

dinov, I choose the D-05x over, at the time, N-05 because of the higher DSD rate and other improvements. I also use fiber opt tx/rx ethernet connection.

I stream music from the internet via Roon almost 100% of the time because it’s simple and convenient. 

You might want to look at the Memory Player.  I have a custom server / streamer built by Sam, super happy with the Memory Player. Below is a link to a newer version

https://www.thememoryplayer.net/general-1-1

cfa88,

 Well out of my price range! But I appreciate the link.

The Aurender app is fine for me It lets you build playlists by mixing locally stored and Qobuz streamed music. But where the Aurender really shines is the sound quality. Much better than anything I hear before. It is due to the fact that music is cached in a SSD, removing much of the noise from Eterrnet and all. Last year I tried many speakers and carried my Aurender and Denafrips DAC to the stores. It repeatedly bettered by a lot whatever the dealers were using. Especially when a PC was used (MConnect etc..).

So @communique1, let me get this right after reading your thread. You’re wanting to spend several thousand dollars on a music streamer/server to put into your setup to improve the sound quality of your system, and you like Roon, but you want to ditch your NUC in favor of something hopefully better. Is that correct? Are you wedded to your present DAC for the foreseeable future? There has been a lot of great discussion concerning which streamer/server that you could try out. But IMO it’s more important to look at getting the best DAC that you can afford, and building your listening chain around that, instead of trying to make what you have sound better by adding another expensive powered box into your system.

test

Adasdad,

The Esoteric D-05x is the best I can afford @ $8K, So I'm looking for a comparable music streamer to pair with it. 

Put a Roon Nucleus on your LAN and wire it via ethernet (whatever it takes) to a Lumin U1 or U2 then attach the USB to your Esoteric. My system is Nucleus to U1 to Chord M-Scaler and currently Chord Qutest so everything is upsampled to 705.6 or 768. I too like the Roon app. Well within your budget.

This:

Check out SmallGreenComputer.com.  I have been using their products, and the Sonore products they sell for years.  Very reliable, easy to use, and fantastic support from Andrew.  IMHO, they offer great value by keeping their casework simple and eschewing expensive marketing.  The sound is wonderful, and I am using mostly their entry level kit.  I would imagine their better offerings would be competitive with many more expensive options.  They have a 30 day return option, too.

Do the optical bundle:

https://www.smallgreencomputer.com/collections/recommended-solutions/products/the-uromd-bundle

 

 

I've never used Roon and don't intend to either because it has the potential to interfere with the original recordings.

I use an Aurender N20 with the Conductor App via Android, however Aurender do tend to prefer Apple, but Conductor doesn't interfere with the original sound in any way.

I have over 3000 Cds, SACDs, DVD-A's and BLU-RAYS stored on my Aurender SSD drives. When you have that amount of storage the last thing you want is pics because it'll take you forever to scroll through them.

Conductor has an option called Folder which gives a DOS like list of everything you've got.

Pics are for Noobs, but they're there if you need them.

If you can't stretch to the N20 the N200 is a fine machine.

I have the N200 and once you are use to the app, it's fine. I agree it needs to add a few more features. I find plenty of new music streaming, so have no use for Roon and the cost for it. I also agree with the person who said upgrade your DAC. I did and it made a world of difference.

At $7.5k, the 432 EVO Aeon Music Server got great reviews, the TAS reviewer purchased his loaner.  Seems to sonically punch above its price point.  I was considering stepping up from my Innuos Zenith Mk3.

Thanks to everyone for their gracious input. Once I got word that Aurender will include Roon integration as an option in a few months, I decided on the N200.

I got word that Aurender will include Roon integration as an option in a few months

Really? Aurender have said they will never ever integrate Roon for years now. And have been very vocal and firm about Roon. I am surprised. What was your source, can you share?

 

Got from a few Aurender dealers. (Not sure they want to be published at this time.) Reach out to your Aurender dealer for more on this. Just sharing in the thread that I started. My hesitation with Aurender was the lack of Roon integration. Once I got "the word," pulling the trigger was an easy decision.  My info revealed that the new intel chip made this possible and more than likely won't be retro to older Aurender products. But no definite confirmation of the last point.

@communique1 

Good call, enjoy your N200! 

@thyname I was at the Aurender room a couple weeks back in Axpona and they were telling me they are currently going through Roon Certification. They claim it will be a software update, but I find this confusing since previously they stated their CPUs weren't capable of handing the increased load for Roon. I only want to use Roon because it allows me to use Convolution filters for my headphones. Other than that, I could care a less about it.

It's my understanding that their AMD CPUs were the limiting factor. They now use Intels. Also, I use Roon strictly for the interface. I use none of the upsampling, DSP, or EQ options. I let my DAC take care of that if I find the need.

@communique1 @willywonka : thanks! Embracing Roon is a good move from Aurender. Actually Win-Win for both Aurender and Roon. It will open their markets to potentially larger audiences.

Received my N200 this afternoon. I haven't listened yet, waiting for the transfer of files from NAS to internal SSD. I installed 8TB QVO. (Transfering @3TB...an overnight task.) Setup has been easy so far. Impressively solid unit. A great match with my Esoteric components. 

@communique1 : Is you new N200 "ROON ready"? 

Not "Roon Ready" yet. This is a feature coming in the near future if I understand it correctly. However, you can use Roon via Airplay. I'm getting used to the App and it's not too bad....a moderate learning curve. but I'm quite happy with its performance so far and I find myself not missing Roon as much as I thought I would.

...and I don't use Airplay, so this feature is meaningless to me....