My System's Weakest Link - What Say You...

Wait a minute...or two.

What weakest link? based on the details you’ve provided, it sounds to me like you have a superlative audio system.

I don’t understand McIntosh haters either. You know what...It’s probably because they can’t afford it. Probably a noob on the other side who ordered his reference DAC from aliexpress for 200 bucks. And...got his speakers and amp at a garage sale. And he lived with his grandma to save up a few grand for cables. 😆

You can always upgrade speakers - but then again, you need a reason to.

If you enjoy your system, just keep it and love it.

Here ya go!!
https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/merchandise/McIntosh-Nike-Hat

Signs.  Just heard it on the car radio the other day.  As long as you're asking about the weak link, if you really like what you have, a good rack or other amp stand can bring out more of what's good in the components. I've been doing this for a long time, but I only recently became aware of what's being left on the table when you don't optimize what they sit on.  So that's my guess. 

Just looks like good stuff to me.

The room and speaker setup is the deal breaker in any situation.
Put your setup in the bathroom, it gonna be awful. In a nice treated room it’s gonna sound like a million bucks.

You have it all in a living space. Compromise from the get go.

IMO if you were able to place speakers WITHOUT limitations and add some damping/diffusion to critical areas, it would sound the way YOU want it to sound.

I disagree that your room couldn’t use some treatment. I have a similar situation and room treatments made a huge difference. It took some convincing, wife wise, but very worth it. The problem you will have is echo, with high ceilings it does happen. You need to tame those a bit. Otherwise, unless you are just bored (part of it) leave your system the way it is. The room treatment stuff is cheap overall and can be made to look like anything you want. Call GIK, they will help you. There are tweaks, a Schumann resonator made a difference in my room, you can mess with cables, if you are into vinyl look at other carts, or perhaps a new phono stage. The only limitation is $$$.

Acoustic treatment no longer has to be unsightly panels and tubes. Synergistic Research HFT Speaker Kit improves image focus and brings out effortless detail that makes speakers disappear. I choose (14). Put HFT on the speakers, put the speakers on Townshend Podiums. Huge upgrade!

There are better phono preamps, but I don't see where you really have to change anything.

My vote is for the room. Open floor plans are the worst for audio systems. You say you think it sounds good, I say you are only getting (at best) 60% of the potential of your system. It may not be something you can change, but I’d be aware of that shortcoming.

Oz

Thread topic and the direction posts can go are in a couple of camps here.

If it's a "weak link" in the analog(table/cart/phono) front, I see nothing. 

Overall  SQ coming out of the speakers with any source , can be many thread topics.

If you can break from the Mc setup(which I get) a cool all tube phono amp at the max of your budget. That will put your existing rig in its best light.

No shortage of recommendations on that.

IF you actually have this system and IF you have 3000 LP's, then the answer is easy. Your brain is the weakest link. Do you even listen to your system?

No weak links taken away. Perhaps the AC outlet, power conditioning, or isolation but honestly no weak links here. 
I’m probably your weakest link. 

I would change/alter several things. I would sell the C1100 and insert a Trinnov Amethyst. I think you can do much better in the turntable department. An SME or Sota with a Schroder or Reed tonearm and Ortofon Windfeld Ti cartridge. Everything else is fine. With the Trinnov you can insert Subwoofers any time you want, It has excellent bass management. 

I can't see anything that stands out but I would love to spend a day moving speakers and changing cables to see if you are getting everything you can out of that system. 

Weak link? You are kidding.

Long haired freaky people need not apply?
I tucked my hair up under my hat and went in to ask him why.
He said, "You look like a fine understanding young man, I think you’ll do!" So I took off my hat, said, "Imagine that, me working for you!"

The links are strong, and equal. It is the lack of stuff holding them together that could use some work.

The only thing I would change out is the dac. The wyred for sound 10th anniversary dac is much better. It is one of the most analog sounding dacs that I've heard on the market and it beats up on much more expensive dacs like bricasti cord Cos 1 Sim audio. Check out the reviews.

Your system sounds perfect to me. Do not add or change anything. 

Signs. Signs. Breaking up my mind. 

As Chayro and demaggie have noted, the song quote is from “Signs”, first released by The Five Man Electrical Band in the late ‘60s and then redone in the’80s (Tesla, perhaps?).
Keep’em coming.

Also as quoted by Millercarbon.

Put the speakers on isoacoustics feet or a platform like Townshend.... This and room treatment made the biggest differance to my listening room (7m 5m x 3.4m high) 

No. 10 is what I would change. For the money the largest pair of Ohm Walsh speakers would be an ear-opening experience. 3 - D imaging from any spot in the room! No need for subs. I have a smaller pair and they indeed have the magic of placing the performers right in the room! Leave all the rest of your system be!

I dont see Buttkickers on your list , obviously money is no object for you , I have 2 buttkickers mounted to the springs of my sofa and give you an extra layer I never thought possible, Dont knock it till you try it, im at about $13k on my system total and I probably have more clean bass than you Im not bragging , I also have 2 PB16s SVS , Im setup for more theater but come here for ideas, you guys spend boatloads of cash but cant watch a movie on it , its a hobby for me too and I dont mind parting with the cash im not cheap at all , if i want something and see a need for it I have it , I went to the finest showrooms in my area to try to get excited about 2 channel but I get great sound coming from my Center . Why would you want to intentionally hear voice sound coming from 2 speakers 2ch  its not natural  by nature , we go thru all the trouble of converting zeros and ones back to analog to send it to 2 speakers (2 voices) , Im sorry guys a High end center and a nice amp sounds like the performer  is singing to me center stage the way it should be , call me a noob I guess 2 ch overrated I said it. 

Buttkickers dont have to be for movies , I listen to music and am blown away how good it sounds and feels. I use LFE units 9hz  but they do sell Concerts for the aristocrats in the room. does anyone else use butt kickers let me know, Im pretty sure Millercarbon uses them  cause I see 2 Dayton sa-1000 amps in his system photos and there only good for buttkickers . 

@pgaulke60,
Without hearing your system I would have no idea what a weak link would be. Looks well thoughtout to me and bassed upon your comments such as "No need for any room enhancement identified" I won't go there. I'd be very interested in knowing your thoughts on what you think the weak link is?

With good subwoofers you do not need buttkickers.

He has to get away from that everything has to have blue lights mentality. There is not one company that I know of that does everything well. 

McIntosh MEN220

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/specialty-products/MEN220

https://hometheaterhifi.com/blogs/mcintosh-men220-room-correction-system-unboxing/

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/experiences-with-mcintosh-men220-room-correction

As a fellow Mc lover, I see no weak links. I admit I am addicted to the big blue meters on my amps....!

@pgaulke60,

Your weakest link...MC2152. You’re barely scratching the surface of what Lillium’s are capable of....I’ve heard them and they love brute power. I would suggest trying a MC462 or Luxman M-900u. 

Maybe DSP?

Think of your room as the most critical component. With your system off when you clap your hands or yell one word at the ceiling what do you hear?

You didn’t venture into your power (treatment) but that’s possibly a part to improve?

And who doesn’t want mono blocks? Who doesn’t like more horse power?

Photos would help.

@yogiboy has a good point!

Color me jealous!

And the only two things I think worth mentioning are:
1.  I think the McIntosh MC 901 may be a consideration.  
2.  A comfy listening chair...such as a Stressless Recliner

Enjoy!

your ears, for sure  with a system like this, it's waaay to good for you, or for anyone

Thank you all for the responses.  They have been great, and mirror lots of my thinking.

At this point, I am thinking my MT5 turntable is the weak link given all the vinyl I listen to.  I'm looking to upgrade the turntable to something on par with the rest of the components.  And yes @millercarbon, I will be looking as better isolation to the turntable.

I would love to get the MC901 amps but just don't have the floor space.  It is my living room after all.  Maybe in the next house!  But would love them.

I appreciate the ideas around room acoustics.  I should borrow a couple of panels from my dealer and see if it will make a noticeable difference.  I am looking at new window treatments, but I hear they don't have a real noticeable impact.

@yogiboy I think the hat sounds like a good idea.  I already have the coffee mug.

@tablejockey and @mijostyn Looks like you two take the prize with the Analog weak link.  I'm on that page too, but I can't say I dislike my current turntable.

@knollbrent Thanks for the one snarky comment.  Expected it from MillerCarbon. But Yes, I listen to my system 4-6 hours/day.  Lots of LPs thrown in the mix.

Thanks again to everyone for their ideas.  Helps me quite a bit.  

Peace

BTW  What are buttkickers?

Then @pgaulke60 all is made clear at this point. You don't have this system. If you listen 4 to 6 hrs a day, cmon. 

Buttkickers is street slang for Tekton Moabs. Because they, you know, kick butt on all other speakers.

number 10 is your weak link you can find a much more true and musical sound for a lot less money be open minded and try a vintage american full size speaker and see what you have been missing.

"you two take the prize with the Analog weak link. I'm on that page too,"

Not a "weak link" . As a gear head, considering a"finer" setup of table/phonostage is a never ending quest until we get a Tech Das/Jens Merrill or whatever.

Sonus Fabers will sound even "better" with subs. 

Your table is cool, it's a Mac. I won't part with my 65 MR 71 tube tuner.

Weakest links are your DAC and turntable.  More often than not, companies that specialize in design/manufacturing these components are better performing.  There are much better DACs in the market nowadays that would better suit the level of your system.  Also, because you listen to vinyl substantially, your will also benefit from a turntable + tonearm upgrade.  At $15k, the VPI HW40 would likely give you a good price/performance boost.  

To my way of thinking that's a very good system so I hesitate to use the term weak link because of its negativity. I tend to agree with KennyC that testing out new TT's and DACs offer you the greatest opportunity to hear a different sound, whether you like the alternatives is anyone's guess but both of those are central to everything you play. Budget is obviously another consideration, there are some very affordable yet outstanding ladder DACs and if your budget is large, ring DACs might just make you into a digital convert 🙂

I am going to pick on the Sumiko Palos Santos. I am not much of a fan of Sumiko to start with. I took a huge step up from a Blackbird to a ClearAudio Titanium and never looked back. I currently have a Goldfinger V2 Statement, and will never look back.

#1 I have a Mcintosh MT5 and it sounds good but I just bought a VPI Classic 4 with a 12” fatboy gimbaled arm periphery ring and ADS speed controller The upgrade is amazing! 

If i have to finger what's most audiophile weakest link it definitely goes for room acoustics.

You can fix this with passive measures or with electronic measures like ARC or the much better Trinov. after fixing the acoustics problem that your not even aware of you won't believe it's the same sysytem.
 

@ pgaulke60, I somehow deleted a long post so I'll try and keep this short.

You state: ' No need for any room enhancement identified'  How do you know?


You have great components but to hear them really perform they need a treated room. Without the treatment it is very difficult if not impossible sometimes to hear the change a new component or cable makes.

Ignore the posters who claim that all you need is a carpet and some drapes. There is a not difficult to understand scientifically based target to strive for and when achieved, will blow you away!