Peter Lederman in Second Bout With COVID-19

FWIW;

For years, I take 4000 d3, NAC, Vit C, Co-Q10, occsional A, Magnesium Glycinate, B12, and multi Vit.  I am sure it "helps" but did not keep me from having a D-Dimer of 7800 (just saw my records.) I "somewhat" agree that getting the vaccine after having Covid is a risk for some, but HAVING covid a 2nd time unknowingly (as I did) WHILE getting the vaccine (following your comment)  is obviously far worse. I had mutiple PE's and the Saddle PE almost did me in.  I can now breath almost deeply without too much pain. Many other symptoms from Covid are still my daily companions.

On balance, to get rid of Covid (as best as we can) through vaccination makes sense. as this illness is no joke. Are there risks to vaccination? Sure. But in comparison to having no vaccine.....Take a look at India right now.....in daily deaths, THEN tell me its a bad idea to have vaccines.

God bless all of you who wished me well. Mala hierba nunca muere  - once said by a janitor who stopped mopping at the foot of my late brothers hospital bed while undergoing marrow destruction in prep for an autologous stem cell transfer due to a rare  Lymphoma...when my brother asked him what he mumbled, he said......"We have this expression in Spanish....."IT"S HARD TO KILL AN UGLY WEED".  My brother said he then wet the bed he was laughing so hard.

peter

mijostyn

I have already had over 300 cases in my practice so I think this opinion is a little better than anecdotal.

That’s funny. Observations made in a pseudonymous post in an audio group by someone who claims to be a physician is anecdotal at best and, quite likely, pure fiction.

viber6,

"...the foremost role of vitamin D in suppressing inflammation and the severe cytokine storm of serious covid illness."

Do not put all your eggs in one basket.

Good to here you are on the mend Retipper. It is an odd experience to know you have one foot in the grave and one out, to have one foot in the OR in a situation were even in the best of hands the mortality rate is 60 %

 In my experience as a primary care provider the worst reactions to the vaccines are occurring in people who have already had the disease. I have already had over 300 cases in my practice so I think this opinion is a little better than anecdotal.  I suggest that low risk individuals who have had the disease do not get vaccinated. The drive to get as many people vaccinated as possible is highly suspect. Trusting the pharmaceutical industry for advice in this regard is quite frankly, dangerous.

I think it is also fair to mention that there are significant co morbidities in your situation that led to dangerous thrombo-embolic disease. Yes, this disease is very contagious. But, in the vast majority of people it results in a very minor illness.

Best wishes for your continued uneventful recovery. Please don't do it again!

lewm,
Dr. John Cannell founded the Vitamin D Council to bring awareness of D's benefits for numerous conditions.  Unfortunately for covid, the public has been demoralized into thinking that nothing can be done except take vaccines, steroids, anticoagulants.  The reference norms of D25OH at 30-100 ng/ml miss the concept of what is optimal/therapeutic, which is 50-80.  When I was sick last year, I also used Ester C 1000 mg every 2 hrs while awake, NAC (N acetyl cysteine) 600 mg 3x/day to increase glutathione levels.  I made slow progress, but when I got Quicksilver Scientific's liposomal vit C and glutathione which are almost as good as intravenous forms, I made much more rapid improvement.  My patients and I who have done this KNOW that it works, unlike assertions of flawed "controlled" studies in journals, such as the recent JAMA article.  I suggest opening a professional account with Quicksilver, which will also give access to webinars by the brilliant chief scientist, Christopher Shade, PhD.

There is a long history of high dose intravenous vit C for many infectious illnesses.  Thankfully, Northshore University Hospital in NY started IV vitamin C 1.5 gm every 6 hours early last year for covid.  The Vitamin C book by Thomas Levy, MD, JD is useful.

Surviving covid is the first hurdle.  Preventing long term sequelae is best accomplished with a holistic, nutritional approach that complements usual medical therapy.  I know the medical/dental practice, Whole Body Medicine in Fairfield, Conn which is near Peter.  I had my mercury dental fillings removed in 2004 by the founder, Dr. Mark Breiner.  His son, Dr. Adam Breiner is a holistic D.O.  Dr. David Brady in the practice is a renowned nutritionist.

I’m spread pretty thin these days, and just caught this news.
Get well soon, Peter! We miss you.

... Thom @ Galibier Design

viber6, I beg to differ with you.  The benefits of maintaining Vit D levels were recognized very early on by the "medical establishment".  You can find videos on Youtube (a public forum) dating back a year or more that were posted by reputable sources that one might identify with the medical establishment, emphasizing the importance of both Vitamin D and C.  Low Vit D was actually identified as a risk factor for severe disease.  However, neither vitamin will "cure" the active disease or prevent it in a statistically detectable way.  (Which is not to say that having normal levels of Vit D might not make the difference between an asymptomatic infection and getting sick.)  Further, there were published papers on the effect of Vit D in peer-reviewed journals.  In the only study I can recall off the top of my head, there was no benefit shown to taking mega-doses of D or C when you actually get sick or even on a chronic basis prior to infection; the benefit was associated with achieving and maintaining at least the accepted normal range of concentrations in blood.  I myself went on Vit D after reading those papers and watching a Youtube video, and because my own Vit D level was low-ish historically.

@retipper 

peter

great to know you are on the mend, great that you have energy to post here and update your friends and supporters

get better, so you can get back to work... i have half dozen f9 styli that need you 😁😁😁😁

or you may consider a new career as lyricist for modern day rappers!

hope you got a laugh... cheers, thinking about you and wishing you a quick return to your full superpowers

Peter,
Glad you are improving.  I am an integrative MD who is aware of conventional wisdom as well as nutritional/natural modes of healing.  Ignored by the big money medical system is the foremost role of vitamin D in suppressing inflammation and the severe cytokine storm of serious covid illness.  Vitamin D 25 hydroxy blood levels should be maintained over 50 ng/ml for a protective benefit.  Most of my patients and I require 5000 IU (125 mcg) of vitamin D3 daily to maintain these levels.  If they have not been taking any vitamins, their levels are usually way below 20, posing greatly increased risks for any infection and many cancers.  In urgent situations, I advise 20,000 IU daily for 1 week, then maintenance of 5000 IU daily.  Vitamin D3 is very cheap, from any vitamin store, OTC from pharmacies.  At Costco, a bottle of Nature's Bounty 400 doses of 5000 IU is only about $16 retail, often on sale for $12.  For over a year supply, dirt cheap.

I am now 68.  In late March 2020 I had a mild covid illness, probably due to my healthy diet, slender body (6 feet, 160 lbs), and excellent vitamin D levels for the past 20 years.  Ten months after my mild covid illness, I still had the natural covid antibodies.  

Peter well enough to report on his own illness is very good news indeed. You have many many people right behind you, Peter. 

@retipper 

Peter, since learning of your recent (second) bout with COVID I have been thinking about you each day.  I check this forum thread to learn of the latest report on your health.  It's so good to know that you are on the mend.

Thank you for being the quality human being that you are.  The world needs more people like you.

Best wishes.  L'chaim

I received an email from Peter so he must be on the mend...

All the best Peter.  And to everyone who had a momentary insensitive thought, this is no joke, and if you co-sign unkind behavior towards this situation, be safe. I hope that you don’t personally experience how serious this is.

Peter, You're not only a poet, inventor, scientist, entrepreneur and teacher...You're tough as nails, to boot.
So glad you're health has turned around for the better!
Hang in there and keep fighting to make a full recovery!

With respect and admiration,
Mark

Thanks God your alright Peter. 

2 immediate  neighbour's got covid after vaccine too . I daily gave my mum 5000iu of d3 and zinc and other vitamins since March last year . so far touch wood we are safe and I go to work too and sometimes eat out. mum had 2nd vaccine but she was not hit by the ill effect of sinovac vaccine. while few of her friends got knocked out for days after vaccine. we even had someone who came to our home who had covid.. that was a huge scare but we are alright. maybe the d3 and zinc science is ok


still have to maintain protocol.. vaccine or no vaccine... 

I wish you a full recovery, Peter!
Lost my dad due to the post-COVID complications and got it myself - not a joke.
Pull through and thank you for all you've done to our community!

I'm enjoying your Sussurro MKII and Tandberg TD20A SE you've serviced.

All the best.

Peter
My best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery. We need you back!

Ok Mr. Soundsmith, hear me well, YOU'RE on MY prayer list, I got an open window straight to GODS big ears..

You pray, before during and after a meal.

Not giving thanks for the food we receive is like STEALING from God..

We try to remember him, HE NEVER FORGETS US... "foot prints in the sand"

I'll do my part (praying) you do your part, "WHAT THE DOCTORS SAY"

Be well, GET WELL..

With great respect...

There is a line
where white froth
gives way
to the blackest blue
of the wave

Devoid of light
and hope
that black line is
Faith
and
Remembrance
and
memory

How true and how beautifully said...

 Thanks...

Get well Peter, thoughts and prayers man. We are all pulling for you to make a full recovery.

There is a line
where white froth
gives way
to the blackest blue
of the wave

Devoid of light
and hope
that black line is
Faith
and
Remembrance
and
memory

@retipper like noromace a dear friend, i read your poem to my spouse - touching...bless you and the pup - may godspeed you to recovery 

jim

@retipper, just wanted to wish you the best and good to hear you got your dog back, hoping he is getting better also. Enjoy the music

Peter, no, the ( much more than 6) women (and men but mostly women) who had clotting problems after the JJ (and the AZ) vaccine were not virus-infected. They had a very rare auto-immune reaction to their own platelets due to the fact that adenovirus binds to platelets. What you seem to have had is exceedingly bad luck plus possibly a second infection with a virus that escapes the immunizing effect of the Pfizer vaccine, which is typically very protective even after only one dose. The ongoing data for the vaccines otherwise suggests that vaccinees constitute way way less than 1% of those developing clinical illness, let alone the severe disease you suffered. Which is why I’m wondering about an escape mutant virus. Most if not all of the “variants” that you read about every day are not fully resistant to the vaccine effect.  Which is to say vaccinated persons are most likely protected from them. (We don’t yet have a surrogate test for efficacy which is why I’m not making absolute statements. The surrogate will probably be some level of neutralizing antibody in blood.)

It's a cautionary tale that you and your people got so sick, despite such heroic precautions.

retipper,

Is it ok to assume that this second bout was also confirmed by a PCR test?

In any case, we are all rooting for your speedy recovery.

@retipper 

Thanks for letting us know, Peter. It's a relief that you are in the process of recovery.

Dear LEWM:

Yes, first Covid infection April of 2020, verified by PCR test. Dont know what "strain" I had. Cardiac surgeon who initially visited me after transfer to WMC said my history was "frightening and did not bode well for Covid". Yes, you would think they would want to research what happened. I would not be surprised if the 6 women who got J&J HAD covid when they got the shot. Maybe similar( ?) in what happened to me - What DOES happen when you have covid, have an immune response, and THEN get a (first or second, like me) vaccine at the same time? I would think (a lay persons thoughts) a huge step up in immune reaction, maybe one that throws clots.

Not fair, I have empathy.

To be more emphatic than glupson. No, the mRNA vaccines, namely the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, cannot and do not cause clots.  The adenovirus-based vaccines do have that potential, but despite the hysteria in the press, it is a very rare adverse event, which of course is no comfort if you happen to be one of the rare cases.  One diagnostic sign of the adeno-vaccine induced clotting is elevated D-dimers (a degradation product of the clotting factor fibrinogen), which Peter does report, but that also happens with COVID-induced clotting.  However, the vaccine-induced mechanism starts with a marked reduction in platelet count by an auto-immune mechanism, which separates it from the COVID-induced phenomenon. The adeno-vaccine induced clotting mechanism has now been defined in the context of several reports that occurred in the New England Journal of Medicine in the last two weeks.  Turns out, it can be successfully treated if recognized early enough, but that's the trick.  It's so rare that routine screening is not (yet) done.  Look for that in future, because it will be hard to do completely without the J&J vaccine.  The AstraZeneca adeno vaccine has many other problems, as well.

"is there a chance the vaccine caused the clots?"

Clots are very common in COVID. They show up in many people and may be responsible for some of the more unfortunate outcomes. Clots after the vaccine are probably a few zebras lost among all the horses running around the world.

Peter, Did anyone bother to isolate your infecting virus?  If anyone else of lesser credibility had told me your story (serious clinical disease after both prior infection AND the first dose of Pfizer vaccine), I would have been skeptical; the odds are so heavily against that sequence of events.  It raises the question whether your second illness was caused by an antigenic variant virus that eludes antibodies induced by the vaccine and by prior infection with the wildtype strain, which is why I ask whether anyone took a sample of your secretions during the acute phase.  It is vitally important that antigenic variants are verified and documented. I would go so far as to say that yours is a reportable case, if the data were available on which to base a report.  Was your first case proven by a positive PCR also?

What's most important is that you are in recovery.  Take your time. And obviously we are all so happy to know it, including me.

Hang in there. Best of luck to both of you.

@retipper  You can write a lyric for sure. Beautiful and melancholic. The last quatrain creaked my voice reciting it to my sig other.

is there a chance the vaccine caused the clots?

Peter,
Well wishes and prayers to you for continued recovery.  
Thank you for letting us know how you are doing.  Such a horrible ordeal.  You also helped us to not become complacement, which i was guilty of.  Much appreciated. 
peace and all the best

Great to see you posting Peter and best of luck with your recovery! And if you haven't yet also do get vaccinated!

Dang Peter so sorry to hear!  Best of luck and speedy recovery!  Hang in there and try to stay positive.  
Jerry 

Given Away

 

Spread your wings and slowly light

Upon the branch that holds my gaze

And stills the now and captures time

That overshadows all my days

 

Time’s so patient but regards us not

It waits for return of truth that holds

It feels more deeply than we can know

It fears not fall or winter’s snow

 

The world creates such a fearful din

But silence rules what we hold dear

It clears the air, it’s peace within

It’s closer than what we hold near

 

When stars seem fixed to hold in place

When evening deer come to borrow fields

When morning’s light contains more grace

Than my heart can grasp or my will can wield

 

In silent rains I hear your singing

When leaves hands move in visible breath

When snowdrops rise foretells of bringing

My heart is risen as life from death

 

So search each shell upon the sand

Listen close for the love of day

And return each jewel that seems at hand

None can be kept till it’s given away

 

(peter 4-6-21

We had one employee who unknowingly had Covid-19 and was mistreated by their doc. They spread it to almost the entire onsite employees, myself included. They had "sinus" and "jaw" pain. Watch out - This is one nasty virus with a plethora of symptoms.......   GET TESTED OFTEN if you feel anything unusual, to protect others. We were so careful at Soundsmith, but the last time I contracted Covid I went nowhere prior but home and work, sterilized EVERYTHING I touched, and carried alcohol spray  - I was so damn careful - even the mail & boxes received outside our door were sterilized using Ozone generators feeding into big sterilization boxes I built - NO ONE allowed to come to Soundsmith other than employees. I got it just going into and from our multi-use building - even with a mask and had sanitizers in every suite.  Highly contagious.

Peter Ledermann

Retipper, glad to hear you are recovering.  Also glad your dog is back home.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery Peter. 

@retipper 

With all that you are dealing with, to take the time (and the precious energy) to write a message to us as part of the audio community is just remarkable.  In my eyes and thoughts it elevates your action to heroic and is a statement of your endearing character.

Here is every hope and prayer that this string of 'awful-luck' is behind you and better days are ahead.  Best wishes for a speedy recovery.  

PS/Assuming your are in the Westminster area - DoorDash Food Delivery - Delivering Now, From Restaurants Near You with some open as early as 8AM.  

  

Wow. Just awful. I can't even imagine how you got it twice. Is it because y'all work in a closed space?
Happy to hear you're on the mend. 

I have just enough energy to post. What hppaned tome is thsat I was infected  a second time with Covid, and not realizing it, went for my second Pfizer shot. 4 hours later, felt like I was hit by a truck.  Went 4 days at home, got a PCR test (positive) and next morning called an ambulance. My D-DImer blood test was 6000 instead of .5. Cat scan showed many large clots, and a "saddle PE" that was so large that the doc told me if I had waited, or if had been a bit larger, I would have died. It passed through my heart and hung up on the saddle feeding both lungs. Transferred to cardiac center at Westcheter Medical Center, where they debated whether to operate. Had been on blood thinners too long - so no surgery to remove clot. 6 days in hell there. Then home on thinners to care for myself (I live alone).

I am the world's worst cook. I pray before, during and after I eat.  Got my dog back, but he is sick from being in the shelter. He is on antibiotics now and getting a bit better. Feel worse for him.

Quarantined for a total of 4 weeks. Can go out starting Tuesday for doc appointments - many complications. Hard to breathe, Slowly getting better, but lots of after effects. What I had was a huge immune response to a second  Covid infection, and the shot COMBINED. I am also immune compromised due to medication. Folks should consider a PCR test 4 days BEFORE second shot to be safe. Soundsmith is partially open with many employees who were ill with Covid now able to return.

Thank you for all the well wishes. This has NOT been fun, or without stress wondering if I will wake up each day, But each day the risk of the large clot moving is lower. They told me 4-6 months to resolve clots to "whatever level possible".  - peter Ledermann

Life is an expensive project.

Best place to be is HOME... Thank God.. Besides I bought a CART.. Now send it.. LOL
Get better.. Eat your veggies... CLOT are no fun..

Last year May 19, 2020 0550 hours I wake up my stomach is on FIRE.. Never felt anything like it..

911.. BAMB..

LOL I get hauled off to the hospital in and ambulance, I wind up at the ER, they tell me I’m having a heart attack. They inject me with dye. The WHOLE time my stomach feels like someone is pouring boiling oil down my throat. They see an obstruction (occlusion I think is what the called it), I HAVE A CLOT. The can’t do the work because the doctor is BOOKED straight through until the next morning. ALL night I go through episode after episode.
3 wonderful nurses stayed with me ALL NIGHT.. ALL NIGHT.. Sent straight from GOD...

I look like something out of Hell Raiser.. All the pins stickin out.. Heparin drip..

Huge bruise on the inside of my thigh.. Fence post whacked me two days before.. Where the clot came from.

The next day the stent was installed.

10 week go by 16 heart attacks later, a second stent is installed..

OOPS missed one.. YUP.. Ask MC I was scared to death. I was dying.
He propped my "feeling sorry for my stupid self up" and said.. "Your gonna be all right, your gonna be fine"..

Well, I was, and the moral of the story is.. 51 hours from the time I left my house to the time I got home.. 81,000.00 US dollars.. oh 20 dollar taxi fair to get back home.. I’m the only driver now..

1588.00 per hour.

A heavy duty master mechanic on his best day might make 1500.00 for 16-18 hours of nothing BUT blood and sand.

I’d have paid 5 time that for that 10 weeks of hell though.. OOPS missed one... That only cost another 15,000.00. Out patient.. 16 heart attacks.. LOL out patient.. Even the doctor gave me a high five.. Said I was tough... Like I had a choice...:-) Of course we didn’t know that until AFTER and a VERY close read of a week long EKG they had me on at home.. They sent the taxi for that one.. save the ambulance ride.. I kid you not.. 6K for an ambulance ride now..

I’m glad I have a sense of humor.. :-)

Peter' all the best from all Australian audio.
Freekos

Allow me to add my good thoughts and wishes for speedy recovery for Peter L as well. His excellence and dedication to his craft at Soundsmith over the many years makes him a real treasure.  We are all nothing without our good health.

With Peter held in such high regard here (as usual) his spirits can help but be lifted.  With laughter being the best medicine, a few of these posts should have him better in no time! HA