I got 2 of these from Amazon...careful that free returns are applicable. I charged them up, turned them on and holy moly.....they do help with my system. What I hear is clarity....space between instruments, a definite difference in upright and electric bass, wider soundstage...you know...all the good stuff. At first I thought it might be increased brightness, but no....it is still the same in that regard. I still can't believe it, and will listen again tomorrow (saved the packaging for the return)...but today, I'm about to keep them.
I must say that sometimes in a relatively balanced resulting S.Q. , after many experiments, sometimes with only a minor change in appearance the complete S.Q. MAY dramatically change improving or losing the quality which was reach with other means till this change...My system has not achieved his evolution till recently and each time i was thinking that it was optimal and i was wrong.... 😁
For example the exact right balance between reflecting and absorbing acoustical surface...May create a huge impact....
Lately my few inches shortening of a few straws, the neck of my Helmholtz pipes and tubes grid...Create great impact....
Other examples are possible...I lived through many....
The S.Q. is a very sensible equilibrium between many known and unknown or underestimated factors in the 3 working embedding dimensions...
Our own capacity to detect these changes is less linked to supra normal heraring that did not exist for me anyway, than to my listenings and experiments history with the SAME gear in the SAME room....I call that learning to hear in some specific environment.... It is not a power in itself of discrimination applicable anywhere with any system in any room.... It is an HABIT.......Hearing is an habit that also can lose his power if transfered suddenly in an another environment than the usual.... 😊
It is the reason why blind test could be important and it is for the same reason that they cannot play a great active role in an evolutive learning specific habit context.... They are more useful in a social and scientific way and GENERAL environment for designers and customers etc....
For someone learning his own audio specific environment, his own room and his own gear, it is more an experiment he can try partially for sure, not scientifically, and i did it by accident many times unvolontarily....It surprized me a lot when it did....The unconscious was knowing that something was lacking not my consciousness at all,at the times when these accidents has occured...It percolate from my unocnscious to my consciousness that something was not right slowly... It surprized me....It proves to me that some changes were real not borderline placebo....Some were probably borderline placebo...
But i dont like when people apeak always of "placebo effect".... An incremental series of positive changes accumulating in months cannot be illusory.... One change times to times could be and has been for me surely....It pertain to my personal habit my learning history with his own deceptive way and his own powerful way also.... IT IS A LEARNING experience not a capacity given at birth.....
It is clear you like to put yourself on a pedestal and pretend to be all knowing when it comes to hifi. With so many years invested doing that, you shouldn’t be surprised when somebody comes along and challenges you, it’s bound to happen. In that sense, you should pay attention to what thecarpathian, sokogear and others are saying. And... you must respond if you are to remain credible. Or you can bow out by saying you misjudged the reading comprehension of your audience. Since I believe I have relatively good reading comprehension and I understand acoustics and how discrete sources add, can you explain why you made the following comment?
"Starting with one I added a couple at a time until now at 8 with 2 more on the way. Each one improved the same amount as the last. So much for the "law" of diminishing marginal returns."
Also on a more fundamental level can you explain why adding a 7.83 Hz electromagnetic generator to your room improves the clarity of your system? Can you also address the odd and even harmonics that are generated? The 5th harmonic is at 39.15 Hz. Enquiring minds want to know...
But i dont like when people apeak always of "placebo effect".... An incremental series of positive changes accumulating in months cannot be illusory....
On the contrary. Believers in homeopathy become more and more convinced over time that their water has healing properties. They seek confirmation biases and use them as ‘proof’. We see it all the time, even on this forum. In a life of 70 years there will be nights of good sleep and nights of poor sleep. Put a box and a cat under your bed, and when the next night is a good sleep then that is due to the box. And the cat. Or the cat. Or maybe the effect of going to bed convinced you are going to get a good nights sleep. Or random chance. I watched Synergistic Research’s own video demo of their HFTs. Untreated room, level 1, 2, 3 etc. They never said “you can’t tell with a short listen”. They said each time there was obvious change, they described the change and directed us to it, and that we could hear it over a video quality feed with poor recording. You know I’m a skeptic but even I wondered if I could hear a difference when the salesman directed me to a certain sound after a ‘change’. So I asked my son to take the audio stream and run it in his LogicPro tools at a resolution far higher than the original broadcast. We chopped out the repeating music played at each level of the test and anonymised the samples. We shuffled the order to blind each other. We placed them as tracks so we could switch between them for hundreds of listens. There was no difference between them that we could identify when there was no ‘direction’ from the salesman, and when there was no self-direction from knowing which sample was which. Those ‘changed’ sounds we were directed to by the salesman were, you guessed it, there in every sample. It wasn’t that we couldn’t identify which type of sound went with which level of treatment - we couldn’t hear or see any difference at all when blind. Of course, if he switched to vinyl, or switched the speakers, the differences would be huge. I’m aware of some of my own biases, and unaware of course of others I have. Maybe I wanted not to hear difference. So by zooming in to the frequency responses in great detail, the patterns were, physically, the same. Maybe I should post them here. Just like the cup and ball trick. Avoid the misdirection of the magician, and avoid your own biases, and you might get to keep your money. We never do though!
The things I read. What people believe and don't believe. Just amazing..
Truly the "Teeter Totter" effect.
Some of the tweaks are so friggin' ugly, I know they would sound bad.
Does it sound funny, it's not. If it is visually ugly, is sounds ugly.. YES IT DOES... Very simple for me.
If I had to live with some of the CRAP that passes for a sound room, I wouldn't. Wires, antenna, stuff everywhere looking like a cyclone hit it.. NO THANKS.
A mad scientist lab, MAYBE. My listening room NEVER..
A studio setup, my work areas are like that, pretty mobile, wheels on everything NOW.
I consider a lot of the stuff I use, like diffusers, they will NEVER be in my house, too many ways to still look like a home without trying to clean a diffuser, the things stay filthy, (they work OK).
I have seen diffusers cause divorces, no kidding..
It all part of the process for me. If the cleaning isn't easy, you've done a BAD job.. If it's hard to do PEOPLE won't do it... Someone else might but YOU won't...
I've worked around too many people and seen their habits.. LAZY is normal.. Bitchin' about the cleaning person it THEIR way.. I clean my own home.. I'm a common man..
So the easier it is to clean the cleaner it will be, The harder it is to clean, the dirtier it STAYS... The dirtier it stays the worse it sounds... YES it does work that way... The difference is .. I know the difference..
Mechanic, thing guys... To thine own self be true...
I put a fart in a bag and hung it from the ceiling, the more bags I added, etc... Just kill me guys... Paint the main... PAINT THE MAIN...
Cover the outside with magnets, and cut out space blankets... to reflect the BAD rays back to the BAD ray place.. RAY
Oldhvmec - so true. Race car teams know a clean car is faster. This is where physiological effects can translate into more positive performances. The mechanics take more care. The drivers are more precise and confident. A clean car isn’t faster really but with humans involved it is.
If anyone watches Better Call Saul, some of these unnamed posters/painters seeking to keep out EMR from their electric current remind me of Jimmy’s brother Chuck. Their stereo power has to be 100% pristine clean. Unless you are running off of your own transformer, you are relying on the electric company and you can’t get rid of all the noise. A good power conditioner will get rid of most. Nothing is perfect.
Remember Chuck McGill’s house? Windows covered to prevent sunlight from coming in, all appliances off and he lived by candlelight? He was NUTS!!!! Unfortunately they killed him off the show, but he was hilarious. If you haven’t seen the show, stream it. It is the prequel series to Breaking Bad, one of the best shows of all time. Better Call Saul is excellent also, but it is not as great as BB.
Bet those changes to his whole life made his electrical grid quiet.....Don’t make your house look like Chuck’s.
On the contrary. Believers in homeopathy become more and more convinced over time that their water has healing properties. They seek confirmation biases and use them as ‘proof’. We see it all the time, even on this forum. In a life of 70 years there will be nights of good sleep and nights of poor sleep. Put a box and a cat under your bed, and when the next night is a good sleep then that is due to the box. And the cat. Or the cat. Or maybe the effect of going to bed convinced you are going to get a good nights sleep. Or random chance.
FIRST-My critic has confused these 2 very distinct concepts affirming that all my cumulative embeddings controls over 2 years were only the "effect of taking placebos", the "tweaks" being ineffective.... It is possible for some case NOT FOR ALL INCREMENTAL additions or modifications implemented in my system...All drugs like all tweaks are accompanied by their "placebo effects" and like in medecine, in audio we must unmask the real effect of a tweak like for a drug from the placebo effects associated with it...BUT REDUCING all "placebos effects" associated with a drug or with a tweak to the" effects of a pure placebo" taking is not science...It is SOPHISM.....It is not an argument but a confusion of concepts...
I never denied the existence of a "placebo effect" associated with the taking of a drug or with a tweak but i denied the reduction of all tweaks or all drugs in their possible effects to be ONLY the "effects of a placebo" associated with them.... This is logical and distinguishing the 2 is pure science.... Confusing the two like in this post is ideological biased position with no desire to experiment and only a PREJUDICE begging the question for the answer....
SECOND- the buying of any UPGRADE to an audio system, being it speakers, amplifiers or dac could also be vulnerable to the same effect of taking a placebo and to the placebo effect...We must distinguish the 2 concepts also when making ourselves vulnerable to the consumerism conditioning market when buying gear...
Then we must ask to ourself at what point in our own audio history it is better to think about the implementation of the right method and the right devices to control effectively the working embedding 3 dimensions of any audio system: mechanical,electrical or acoustical... Is it better to buy the new costly amplifier or speakers or dac or better to think about the way we can improve considerably what we already own by installing it rightfuly in this three working dimensions...
A "tweak" is not an embedding controls by itself....It is only an help in this direction...We must separate the universal placebo effect related to any wishful change, be it an upgrade or a tweak, from the real effective working of the upgrading product or of the so called "tweaks"....
All my approah is to say that the working embeddings three dimensions of controls are more important and less deceitful than buying an upgrade if we are not satisfied by our system AT SOME POINT....
What is important in audio: it is not the upgrading process that is the more important factor, but for almost all of us without one million dollars, it is the way by which we will succeed in INSTALLING rightfully in the mechanical electrical and acoustical working dimensions any piece of gear and the system itself AT THE LEAST POSSIBLE COST...
Is a single tweak able to do that? NO
Is it necessary to pay high money to do that? NO
Is it possible to separate the placebo effect linked to a costly new gear or costly tweak from his real working effective or ineffective contribution? YES by experiment
Is it possible to replicate or replace costly tweaks with cheap one to a certain degree? YES it is my experience for 2 years
Is the Schumann generator a deceiving product which work only by the placebo effect? In my experience and experiments NO
Is there here anyway some placebo effect could be playing? YES like in ANY upgrade or addition of anything which we wish to be positive there is a placebo effect related to it...
Is a 10 bucks product "snake oil"? No it is a cheap experiment proposal, not a costly product advised for miraculous effect...Buying a cheap chinese device is not the same thing that buying a costly Acoustic Revive product.... Confusing the 2 is bad faith...
Is the S.G. a general solution to the 3 embeddings problems by itself? Not at all....It is only an interesting experiment giving a positive results for many and it is easy to verify its effects...
Is the general trend considering upgrading the ONLY MEANS there is to buy a real audiophile experience something deceitful? A market practice? A conditioning of customer? A placebo effect cleverly planned? YES it is also that and not only real pure and objective improvement in all cases...
Because learning how to control and tune a system or a piece of gear in his 3 working dimensions is at least as important than buying a good gear....Read this sentence twice please....
In conclusion my audio room is my laboratory and it is not possible to do with a living room what i did in my audio room...
Then attacking my "room" cleanliness is not fair.... This has nothing to do with a specific "tweak" or anything to do with my embeddings controls .... Some can use only a few of them and make them more clean and more esthetical...I am more creative than crafty.... 😁
I succeeded with my audio system at peanuts costs and it is the only important factor for me .... I learned something and i communicated here in the process... Something very few at best has ever dare to say here :
It is possible to buy audiophile experience at relatively low cost if we learn how to do it....
And advice and maxim is : dont upgrade to anything before learning HOW to embed everything right...
If you call my audio system experience only wishful thinking or placebo.... Myself i could call all these costly audio systems marketing, so called "audiophile", limited in their power to deliver real audiophile experience by the way they are well embed or not, in the 3 working dimensions of any system.... This is not a QUESTION of price.... This is a question about simple possible low cost methods used to control vibrations, electrical noise floor and acoustic settings...
By the way dont call me "nuts", it is easy to put everydody unorthdodox in the same bag.... I know very well that some of my devices or experiments are "nuts" but not all the experience is....
Who is nut, those who chase with big money their tails or me satisfied with a low cost well embed system ?
Plugging a new gear in the wall is NOT the way to reach audiophile experience in general.....Sorry...I dont mind the high price paid for the gear...
Hi Maghister - I’d never call you or anyone ‘nuts’ ! And I’ve always included myself and indeed all of us as persons vulnerable to placebo and confirmation bias. And I am totally with you when it comes to experimentation, especially the affordable type!
At least you acknowledge the existence and role of confirmation bias. I’ve enjoyed hearing your experiments. What is a red rag for me is when some posters here either refuse to accept these phemonema exist, or refuse to accept they are vulnerable to them. Over and again we have “I turned my fuse around to improve my sound and I’m sure it improved my sound. Therefore turning a fuse around makes systems sound better. And you can’t deny it because I trust my ears!”
We all of us should acknowledge our confirmation/optimism bias as a factor in tweaking, or produce some evidence which is free of that bias, before suggesting folks should part with their hard-earned money.
Hi Maghister - I’d never call you or anyone ‘nuts’ !
I apologize to you for answering some other post in my answer to you...You are respectful and i thank you for that...
At least you acknowledge the existence and role of confirmation bias.
it is IMPOSSIBLE and pure ignorance to contest the placebo effect or bias impact on perceptions... It is and always was evident for me and i always think it must evident for all...
BUT attributing all my final results to bias or placebos by principle and about anything called "tweaks" by principle is for me deceptive and unfaithful to the experiments like denying bias and placebo effect also are...Separating placebo effects from the real impact or not of any device is the crux of the audio experiment...
I will repeat myself, placebo or not, i bought nothing except peanuts costs devices, i created and modified most myself and replicated with homemade materials mostly from inspirational branded costly devices...
My results are there in the form of my ONLY advice:
Dont buy anything new ever BEFORE embedding what you had already in the rightfull manner....
It is not consumerism advice all over the place not "snake oil" marketing here with me....
It is a learning process in the 3 working dimensions of any audio system: mechanical, electrical and acoustical...
It is not the magical "tweak" in itself that interest me, it is the way and method to reach an optimal experience, never mind the specific gear...My way is learning through a set of listenings experiments with low cost artefact and means...
Audiophile hearing is a learning habit experiments in a KNOWN room and with KNOWN gear, not an innate infaillible gift usable everywhere with any system like suggested by some ....
@cd318, that dark side has always existed but science has also been de-legitimized by marketers making false claims under the guise of science. "Dr George Peebrain PhD in aquatic afterlife discovers that jellyfish pixie dust cures Alzheimer's disease." Real science really works. You hold it in your hand right now. 25 years ago that thing was the size of your average brief case and only did one thing. Make phone calls and it was not all that good at it. I just recently downloaded a seismometer app. I can put the phone down on any surface, tap or bang around and see if it registers on the phone. How cool is that?
Mahgister - you are not nuts. Like you say, you are conducting experiments in a lab type environment. You are not imposing a lab look into your living area like Chuck McGill on Better Call Saul. Sounds like you are having fun which is what this hobby is all about. I like hearing about your experiments.
It consumed Chuck's life and literally drove him nuts.
Double blind tests eliminate any bias, so long as they are conducted properly, which is not easy. Warm up times, adding or removing (or not changing) the variable, playing the passage exactly the same way, having the moderator not inadvertantly disclosing cues at whether or not they did anything, etc. An offhand comment about something sounding muddy when a speaker was moved off a cable elevator does not cut it.
If something does not have a logical description of how or why it works, then we should be skeptical. If something does, then it is up to the individual to determine the effect on the sound and if any, if it is worth the expenditure.
The easier it is to understand the logical description by someone with a basic understanding of science and the scientific method, the greater the probability that it is worth consideration. People who dismiss double blind testing obviously do not have that and can't imagine an experiment on how to measure gravity's effect on falling objects for example, they just beleive it. Do they even know that the force due to gravity changes on the moon? Do they even care?
Mahgister - you are not nuts. Like you say, you are conducting experiments in a lab type environment. You are not imposing a lab look into your living area like Chuck McGill on Better Call Saul. Sounds like you are having fun which is what this hobby is all about. I like hearing about your experiments.
Thanks for your kind words...
For sure my goal was not an experiment...It was reaching satisfaction with my gear... With no money i never even know that it could be possible... The first steps begins by accident but in the journey i begin to understand what matters and why...
This is what i called the working controls in the 3 working embedding dimensions of any system...
Then the universal advice to upgrade begins to reveal to me his ugly face: an illusion half the time ....
Because it is more important to tune the gear at his right level of optimal working than buying new one....
Simple...
Who say that loudly?
I am not interested either by buying " tweaks" they are most of the times too costly and none of them solve by itself the problems in all 3 working embeddings dimensions... In the opposite the sum of all my low cost devices did it to a great extent all together...
Then i am anything save "nuts".... My audio dedicated room is "crazy" but it is NOT a reason to dismiss my conclusions....
The control over a free room for my experiment was my only real advantage over most people....My gear is good but average....
My sound is not average at all tough at the end... It is the best sound this average system could deliver and it is way more than what we think possible... It is the reason why i could affirm with confidence that most owner dont know what the gear they already own is able to deliver in the right conditions....
"This is not a QUESTION of price.... This is a question about simple possible low cost methods used to control vibrations, electrical noise floor and acoustic settings..."
I think it's fair to say that all 3 of these concepts have been accepted by and large by audio enthusiasts.
The only difference of opinion seems to be in the extent of their importance and the degree of the 'treatment' required.
@mijostyn,
"I just recently downloaded a seismometer app. I can put the phone down on any surface, tap or bang around and see if it registers on the phone. How cool is that?"
Actually I did the same thing to see if it was possible to measure the effectiveness of different forms of isolation under my speakers.
I downloaded the Physics Toolbox Accelerometer app (there's probably even better apps out there) and then spent some time learning how to use it. Unfortunately I then ran into one of my perennial problems of system set-up - namely a willing aide or accomplice.
Those of us who have partners genuinely willing to help conduct such experiments can count themselves very fortunate indeed.
So I failed to take it any further. Nevertheless such technology could prove extremely useful, especially for anyone with a turntable.
I think it’s fair to say that all 3 of these concepts have been accepted by and large by audio enthusiasts.
The only difference of opinion seems to be in the extent of their importance and the degree of the ’treatment’ required.
The sole fact that some disparate factors are well known without the concept and exact description that unite them is not sufficient to create clear understanding...
My concept creation is new: controls of the three working embeddings dimensions of any audio system, mechanical,electrical and acoustical...
The three factors are not new... Uniting them in a unique concept , the embeddings controls, make me able to affirm that the tuning of a system exceed by much the system itself....Speaking of "tweaks" is hiding this fundamental fact behind secondary addition to a system...Embeddings controls are the crux of audio on par at least with electronic design gear and they are NOT secondary addition by far...
Then we can point clearly to the deceptive and deceitful market concept of "upgrading"...
For someone with little experience the acoustical embeddings is the most impactful and the most important....
to millercarbon and all the millercarbon minions - imagine how sweet your system would sound if you actually plug the thing in! The proper way to evaluate that is to wear a blindfold and put three receptacles on the wall, two fake and one real and feel around and plug into one then the other and repeat until you settle on a winner. Ooops, you wouldn't know if it was the Schumann resonator that enhanced the sound or the brand of receptacle. Oh well, you could at least write about it as if you knew what you were talking about.
Dont insult people grouping them in one bag...To better stone them against the same wall....
Dont act like the average ape in a rampage...
It is a low cost audio experiment only.... (20 bucks for 2 chinese one)
Not an election here or a war....
By the way most people here have no idea what is a blind test, and what are his specific power and his specific limitation....No idea also what is listening musical habit.... It is a skill "learned" in a specific room with specific gear and specific files, it is an HABIT, not an unborn universal capacity like a bat power waiting to be verified by blind test on the bat....
Keep your neurons working and dont use them to throw stones....
All mine were added one and two at a time. I heard the improvement each time. But hardly ever do I go back and take something out just to be doing it all over again. Used to, a lot, and totally get why this is a thing. When first learning and developing listening skills it is so amazing it is hard to believe and so we tend to need all kinds of validation. I am so far beyond that for so long now you can't imagine. But still, every once in a while....
So unplugged five of em last night. Half the ten. Heard the sound go flat even from behind the speakers. Sat down, 30 seconds was more than enough of that, hooked em back up.
Who wants to listen to that flat, grainy, sound that sounds like it's coming from speakers when you can have dimensional, full natural music that floats in the room?
Rhetorical question. Scroll up, read the names, get your answer. Not every audiophile it seems is all that much of an audiophile. mahgister being the main exception around here. He actually is willing to try stuff and listen and go by what he hears. Good for him. Everyone should be like that. Or try it, at least once in a while.
Without you running several Schumann Resonators, your Moabs sound flat and grainy. And without you lifting your speaker cables from the floor, your Moabs sound distorted and muddy. Good to know. Do you think it is a problem with your speakers, your associated equipment, Your cables, your tweaks, or your audio knowledge? Something is certainly amiss. Flat, grainy, distorted, muddy. Perhaps a different hobby?
Mercy, MC aren’t we full of ourselves tonight.. I bought two of those things.
It is a perception. Nothing more for me.. It has an effect on ME, not my equipment.. It is NOT a placebo. It is not holistic. I was trained to resist mind tampering, PHS and NLP are VERY real. MNG (multi national governmental) job. Training requirement.
There is a physical effect on YOU not the equipment..
The same terminology used over and over again will sink in, won’t it, mahgister with his embeddings.. :-).
Saying a word over and over, indoctrinates individuals, saying "I AM" is held by only ONE person.. The teachers at the time were going to stone him to death for saying it too...:-(
No MC you’re not a professionally trained listener. Does that make a difference? Who trained the professionals? Audiofilers are smug and haudy if nothing else.. BUT There are no better audiofilers than others.. NOT AT ALL. Better trained MAYBE... Self taught NO.. ONLY if they KNOW how they learned. Not I just learned it one day.. YUP, sat down and learned it.. NO YOU WERE taught it unless you truly are "I AM".
All knowing, all seeing, all hearing.. Omni! The thing I read...
Time to feed the chickens.. They can hear....REALLY hear...So can my dog after I trained her what to listen for.. Termites.. YUP termite dog.. Finds them no matter where they are at... ONE termite in a 2 foot thick log.. :-)
Dear friend oldhyvimec you are not totally right....
Yes it could be an effect on the physiology .... Perhaps it is also...
But with my experiments i think it is also an objective effect through the electrical grid of the room...
Things are often not so simple we wanted them to be or are able to distinguished ourselves clearly...
And yes you are right:
The same terminology used over and over again will sink in, won’t it, mahgister with his embeddings.. :-).
For sure repeating a concept help to program it in heads, but this does nor means that the concept of embeddings is not useful to overpass the ideologically incorrect audio concept of "tweaks"....
Anyway my deepest respect for you and your always high spirit....
You know as well as I do it is a way of doing things.. Very simple Master mahgister. I can follow part of the ways or some or the ways but I chose to follow MY ways... Very clear in my head..
Strange your embeddings could be used to teach your way of making sound, the way you have found to make you feel better.. LOL Are you getting all the YOUs and YOURs.. As wonderful as your tinkers mind is I still know that in 45 years of hearing EVERYTHING including a volcano go off twice, that the devices are just that, a device that works on ME not my equipement. It is not a placebo as I said.
But to say I had none. Then added more and more and everything gets better and better and then unhook half and the whole sound thing takes a dump.. I say it's pure pink room effect. Just no overdose possible.
For a lack of better terms, some are FAR more impressionable than others.. Mechanics and everyone else on earth being the two different categories. I'm in the mechanic column..:-) No malice intended.
Your buddy Groucho would say "The world goes around in a circle because of mechanics, not mice on the inside running real fast". :-)
My S.G. play on my endorphins by working through my electrical grid and giving to the music the "mapman" effect, a taste of the humor i was lacking....
I reject the "twoleftears effect" tough because too more rancid.... 😁😊
+1 @thecarpathian to @millercarbon saying the dramatic degradation of sound quality taking out 5 SG’s from his system is sad for all the time and effort he invested on the other myriad tweaks, equipment, electric upgrades, etc.
I bet you can’t find one other honest person to agree that the removal of half of their SGs has such a negative effect on their system’s sound.
Other Audigoners who have tried your experiment have dismissed SGs as far as audio improvement but they don’t want to get into any sparring on this now ridiculous discussion.
Can’t you admit just once that you are exaggerating the benefit of something? I know you don’t promote SGs like Tektons, Moabs, , Raven Amps and Better Records but please give it a break.
@Mahgister- I would never call you a minion. You are about as independent thinking as anyone I’ve ever seen and obviously unafraid to put yourself out there.
As a matter of fact MC is SO far out there, I would say he has no minions, only trusting people looking for help, which he sometimes provides. No need to act like an Oracle, this stuff is very much a matter of personal taste and perception and is debatable, down to the $2000 & up power cables’ value proposition.
If you read me, i never said that it can be the first things to try.... I even said that more important controls are necessary sometimes before hearing audible effect... It is my experience....
It is even possible than other of my devices or other device control exceed or replace it or mask his effect.... I must experiment to know that....I dont know everything.... I just know what i am used to listen to : my specific gear/room controls...
Day one -- Purchased two and had one on each side of the bed stand. My wife and I both woke up with headaches, an no we were not hungover. So they did nothing to help with sleep. We will try a couple f more days. Then we will move to behind the speakers.
-- Purchased two and had one on each side of the bed stand. My wife and I both woke up with headaches, an no we were not hungover. So they did nothing to help with sleep. We will try a couple f more days. Then we will move to behind the speakers.
The cheap devices use a square wave which can give people headaches, a sine wave schumann device does not.
Earlier in the thread I suggested optimism or confirmation bias accounted for the perceived benefits of homeopathy and resonators. I hope it is coincidence that you woke up with headaches.
But FOR GOODNESS SAKE don’t put dodgy electronics under your pillow unless they are certified medical devices prescribed by a registered doctor!!!!
✔ MINI USB PORT POWER SUPPLY -- Adopted of Mini Usb port power supply, typically+5V 0.1A,and comes with USB cable
✔ LOW STATIC CONSUMPTION -- Imported ultra-low static power consumption main control IC,to make the waveform more stable
✔ 7.83HZ PULSE SQUARE WAVE -- Output 7.83HZ pulse square wave, whose duty cycle is 50%. Frequency can be fine-tuned for correction
✔ ULTRA-LOW SCHUMANN WAVE -- This product is Schumann wave 7.83HZ very low frequency generator, features high accuracy and stability
✔ SOOTHE NERVES & IMPROVE INSPIRATION -- For audio-visual space - to enhance the sound field and audio-visual effects,For the bedroom - to help sleep soothe the nerves, adjust insomnia, For office - to relax and improve work efficiency, Used to create space - to improve inspiration,For the tea ceremony - resting body and mind
Earlier in the thread I suggested optimism or confirmation bias accounted for the perceived benefits of homeopathy and resonators. I hope it is coincidence that you woke up with headaches.
But FOR GOODNESS SAKE don’t put dodgy electronics under your pillow unless they are certified medical devices prescribed by a registered doctor!!!!
I bit. Four cheap ones are coming to try. If they fail in audio
but make my wife sleep better it's still a win. I have a high confidence
level though, based only on those who have actually heard them in use. $45 del'd/4 so no worries on my
end if no results. If one or two are enough I have spares. I remain open-minded on this.
Thanks to all who have tried them and reported back, favorably or not. Their information is of value. As for the rest (with lots of opinions and facts or non-facts), I'm unsure what dog you have in this fight over whether they work. Seems you won't know either way if you don't ever hear one. And we sure have worn out the track with repeated laps...
I am interested if anyone has any experience with the SRs that generate a square wave versus a sine wave. I am wondering about the possible differences between the two based on some comments on 'pain' with square wave resonators. Thoughts based on real experiences are what I'm interested in. Possibly educated theories could apply. Thanks much!
Sad to hear it musicaddict, I wish you had spent that money on music. This is the way the pharmaceutical manufacturers get away with it. They know a product does not work but they figure if they can get a lot of people to spend a little money they can make out big time. Then they stick the same pills in another bottle, tack on a name and an indication and make another fortune on the same product.
Never trust what other people hear. Hearing is way too plastic and open to psychological interpretation making any comment indecipherable.
People complained with their " science opinions" for few bucks experiment confirmed by many people over decades...And true science is of no help here where only experiments could decide... There is even scientific papers experimenting now with this effect.... Look for on internet... Than only experiment can help for the time being in audio....I did the experiment myself because whose will complain about fun experiment for a few bucks ? Not me, only those with prejudices for sure... Open mind shut their mouth or try it...Who can a priori decide for a so complex effects on the brain,on the body and probably on the electrical field noise floor of the room ? The same one who "knows" from birth or with a very narrow expertise field projected out of their competence because of a dogmatic view of science...
Why some will hear nothing is very simple,it is not necessary to accuse of delusion all satisfied customers for decades because many hear nothing... It take a room able to deliver it and a system mechanically, electrically and acoustically that did not exceed a precise noise floor... The effect is vey audible but "subtle" at the same time because the way it affect S.Q. did not ressemble other effects...I know it...I will never has perceived it probably 7 years ago with the same audio system, noisier tough...
Never trust what other people hear.
This is a way too drastic opinion, because in spite of all structural differences between human ears and their particular histories, there is a relatively universal unanimity in audio about what is a relatively good system and what is a bad one....
For example for most people probably Mikelavigne system would be perceived good...And mine relatively to his, bad....The difference between the 2 system exist, the "width" of the gulf is a debatable question but i have no doubt that his system is better than mine... Than very good system and less god one exist OBJECTIVELY...... But for many other costly system i prefer my 500 bucks system....This is also debatable and subjective....
Acoustic law and human psyche are more stable in spite of variations than those imposing universal defiance because of the differences.... The question is not about trust in others hearing or complete defiance, the problem and his solution is communication and experiments .... This is why we have audio thread....
And most wars between audiophiles comes less from reality than from limited knowledge and limited experience and very bad communication skills....Insulting people first is not a great communication skills... Instillating defiance instead of trust is not the best politic....Imposing dogmas and calling it science is not great intelligence at work.... Sorry.... I study too much in my life for thinking that a narrow field of science is even near the truth of all human experience.... Delusions in this century do not come from magicians astrologers and snake oil sellers, it comes directly from technocracy.... Not knowing that is being more than ignorant, it is staying voluntarily blind....My mind is not programmed to believe or to doubt but to think....
« Captives and jailors are like one another, warring brothers crushed by the same mechanic»-Anonymus Smith
«Are you not a marxist here?»-Groucho Marx
«Irony is the art of trust in the others ability to understand»-Anonymus Smith
«My jokes were always a commercial exhange with profit for all, i am a capitalist»-Groucho Marx
Now don’t be throwin’ the mechanic under the bus.. LOL Mechanics don’t war. There is an order to thing.. Mechanic, apprentice.. simple.. Everything else is, left handed or right handed way of thinkin’ I’m a lefty.. makes a difference...Lefties comprise 10% of the population. 20% of mechanics are left handed. 30% of our presidents... BUT of 100% of lefties are NUTS... That leaves 90% that are in denial. At least we are honest... Billy Clinton is excluded from that pile. Even the lefties don't want him... :-)
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