When each doubling of output equals 3dB, 20 or so strings in an orchestra equals real acoustic power.
The Absurdity of it All
50-60-70 year old ears stating with certainty that what they hear is proof positive of the efficacy of analog, uber-cables, tweaks...name your favorite latest and greatest audio "advancement." How many rock concerts under the bridge? Did we ever wear ear protection with our chain saws? Believe what you will, but hearing degrades with age and use and abuse. To pontificate authority while relying on damaged goods is akin to the 65 year old golfer believing his new $300 putter is going to improve his game. And his game MAY get better, but it is the belief that matters. Everything matters, but the brain matters the most.
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@Perki - I dabbled in audio about 10 years ago. I had standard, crappy, 18 gauge cable from Home Depot for my stereo system. I bought some cheap Focals - and was told to upgrade cables, and I heard nothing different. I was 30. I was almost abused by "objective" statements of certainty that these tweaks would come together to be better. But they didn't. I was ridiculed for a crappy system. Or that I couldn't hear. I was discouraged, and thought, maybe it is me? And it turns out - it's not me. My hearing, at 40 years old, is exceptional. My system today which is upwards of 30k, isn't cheap or crappy. Can I say I have plugged in 10k cables into my system - no. But have I tried tweaks, yeah. Did any of them work? No... And, you raise a great point! It's not my money being spent if someone wants this vs. that! They can buy whatever they wish! It's the declarative statements made though, your system stinks unless you have product 1, 2, or 3 in it. That's where things I think go too far. Especially if it can't be objectively measured. Buy what makes you or others happy! But, i just ask they don't dump on others when they don't hear a difference. I'll close this out with two thoughts. The first is a statement that "I don't hear as well, but I listen better." - that's akin to saying I can't taste as well, but I eat better. WTH does that mean? And 2 - we do all agree that frequency response drops with age. But, thankfully, most music isn't above 10khz. But, it's isolating something - it's hearing that change, or where an object comes from, that too, is affected by age. (As we age, it's harder to hear in a crowded restaurant for example.) To the point of the OP - I think that's where things get harder to distinguish. And where I think statements being made with a lot of force, especially when it comes to someone new in this hobby, are detrimental to the hobby. I don't know - but - if you're still reading this - i do look forward to your thoughts on it. |
At the worst, I’m trying to convince someone of the importance of something they have zero need for.Bingo. Truth really doesn't matter to a marketer that gets paid to convince people to buy stuff that gives no objective benefit. Thanks for being honest. |
@dletch2 You seem to really have a problem with marketing? Ive spent the bulk of my working life in the advertising industry. At the best, I’m helping to inform people about something that can somehow help them in their day to day lives. At the worst, I’m trying to convince someone of the importance of something they have zero need for. Marketing claims, and the hype that goes along with them, are like water off a ducks back to me. |
dletch2"One day, a few will clue in to the fact that if all they chase are marketing claims and not real substantiated audible claims, then things will never get better and that they are part of the problem." What we hear are real substantiated claims this seems to be the problem you're religion seems to struggle with which as others have observed, explained, and noted is that you think only you're blind tests reveal what people hear! You're blind tests have shown to be flawed too and not scientific but I'm sure your feel safe in your religion. |
Fair!Likewise! @dletch One day, a few will clue in to the fact that if all they chase are marketing claims and not real substantiated audible claims, then things will never get better and that they are part of the problem. Maybe some cables make an audible difference, but it will be an actual scientist or engineer that proves it, characterizes it, communicates how to replicate it, why it works, and how to take advantage of it, not the present lot of cable jockies and their wannabee hanger ons.Most excellent summation. Vaporware is rampant in consumer audio. Not as much in pro audio, but the cable snakes are weaseling in to make rich, wannabe weekend warrior guitar players think that "tone is in the cables". It isn’t. It starts in the fingers. In HiFi it starts in the recording, and no magic cable is going to make a bad record sound more "liquidity, holographically 4 dimensional, effortless, with a blacker noise floor"...ever. |
One day, a few will clue in to the fact that if all they chase are marketing claims and not real substantiated audible claims,Too simplistic.... I listened some costly tweak product on youtube marketed by a well known company and it is EVIDENT that there is an audible effect.... But not necessarily an effect i would want in my system... Anyway i replicated some of these tweaks AT LOW COST but without the artificiality in the audible effect... My device control was less powerful but more delicate in the musical effect....Then some may produce very real spectacular effect, but not necessarily something i would wanted to pay for...And anyway one could replicate some at peanuts costs.... All tweaks are not equal.... This is not fact only my own experience for sure.... |
One day, a few will clue in to the fact that if all they chase are marketing claims and not real substantiated audible claims, then things will never get better and that they are part of the problem. Maybe some cables make an audible difference, but it will be an actual scientist or engineer that proves it, characterizes it, communicates how to replicate it, why it works, and how to take advantage of it, not the present lot of cable jockies and their wannabee hanger ons. |
@perkri Why so defensive? Did I touch a raw nerve? I have heard enough BS presentations at CES over the last 30+ years, plus I restore loudspeaker systems/components for that same amount of time, while also being a working musician for 45+ years to know what's good stuff vs. Bullstuff. There are excellent quality interconnect cables from a few bucks a foot, to making one's own for literally pennies a foot. When someone claims some breakthrough in physics for $30K for an 8 foot pair, and offers no engineering data to justify it, PT Barnum is applauding loudly. Hey...spend your money however you like, but the law in advertising such claims should be to prove objectively, first, why such a product(s) are intrinsically worth such outrageous sums. @mahgister You get it. My points exactly. |
Worser yet..Unproven "Technology" that doesn’t exist through objective means...but keeps magically appearing. Only marketing fluff with no way to prove efficacy by any type of real science or engineering.Your affirmation are only a free belief about something you dont know... My system is 500 bucks ... I bought no tweaks... I created my own homemade devices at no cost and replicate at no cost some very costly one... I even invented one very powerful myself...A mechanical equalizer for the room.... Then i KNOW what could work or not by my listening experiments.... What you call a "tweak " with despise, i never bought them...Not because they dont work or never work... Because it is easy to create your own with basic science and common sense...At low cost or even at NO cost... I called my devices: controls in the three working embeddings dimensions of ANY audio system: mechanical,electrical and acoustical... They are NOT secondary addition tweak to a system they are the main working controls tool of the system.... My system dont need any costly upgrade and compare favorably in the ratio S.Q. /price scale with ANYTHING... It is not the better in the absolute,not at all for sure, i am not a fool....But it is one of the best on earth for 500 bucks probably...I listen music with ZERO frustration.... Then be creative, trust your ears, and dont read too much audio reviews.... And let the pretense of science to the scientist.....Or to the sunday "scientism" skeptic club.... Audio is fun , may cost peanuts, and those who think otherwise are deluded and very loose with their money....I am not.... My best regards with apology for my rant.... But many things must be repeated here.... |
@edgewound Lets check your response. At what point does a rack become snake oil? Are roller blocks, Isoacoustics, Springs snake oil? Power filtration? At what point does it become a "hurdle" and take away from the purity? What about cables? What are "good enough"? At what point do they stop getting better? I'll skip ahead... Better grounding tech? Better outlets? Cable risers? Schumann resonators? Helmholtz resonators? Diffusion panels? Absorption panels At no point to any of these things, or any other tweaks, become a hurdle for your audio experience to have to work around. They do not in any way "mess" with the so called purity of the signal. When people buy these products, they are not using your money. And why do you feel you are superior to all those who use these products and can experience the differences in their systems? Who died and made you the protector of all us "victims"? Not spending your money, if the products don't do what they should, the bulk of these companies will take them back. But you, you know better than all of us, right? Because you have tried all these things, listened for differences. Not better or worse, that is subjective, but differences. If you have tried any of these things, please, enlighten us and share how you arrived at this knowledge that none of us understand. Whack...mole... |
@desert38 I ”I can’t tell you what you can hear, but I can hear a difference. Isn’t that what really matters? There is no wrong or right.” That is what should matter, but if you look at what happened in the last 12 months (outside audio) and all the “snake oil” posts, one gets the feeling that, no there is only one legitimate viewpoint, and they will be glad to share with you what that viewpoint is. |
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@perkri What? Tweaks are not something that have to be overcome! Those speakers are going to be shaking a lot. Think I’m going to put something between them and the stand so as they vibrate, they move in such a way as to not fight with themselves. Want as much clarity as possible from them. So edgewound, explain to me where the hurdle is here that needs to be jumped, or overcome? What you describe here is a basis for a solid system. "Tweaks" are outrageously priced, unsubstantiated marketing claims that have little to no benefit on the objective performance of a sound system. |
Hearing degrades, true enough. But even a 70 year would be able to tell the difference between a live instrument and a recording - even behind a curtain. It's not all about frequency response. In my opinion, microdynamics is more important, the lack of which is a dead giveaway that sound is not coming from a live instrument. |
Esteemed Orchestra conductors and old rock concert audiophiles may not belong in the same category. Extremely trained ears versus extremely addled ears. I recognize experience plays an important part of evaluation. However experience can be a two edged sword. Can lead to hardening of opinion (please visit golf club locker room) or recognition that the more you know the more you don't. |
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But lets walk back your statement I don’t think it is universally accepted that maestros perceive and direct music even better with age. I think you will find that statement hard to support. I think what you will find, is that the best conductors, are the best, no matter what age they are at. The remaining conductors at an advanced age are remaining, not because they are better with age, but because they are better period, and always have been. Did know there are studies into how long conductors live. They seem to have long average lives.I must say that this dont demolish my point but i recognize the validity of your remark indeed... Then i will declare a win/win for each... For sure even Maestros decline like all of us... My point is they are recognized for their musical perception learned ability not for their frequencies range perception "per se".... 😊 Like you said they stay there because they are always the best not ONLY by habit.... I listen to an hour with Maestro Ansermet directing practice with his orchestra.... At 80 years old the old dog was barking with very articulated speech directives and accurate perception.... It is in french tough sorry.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Naxj8XbT8Q0 |
Best at what? This is quite a statement. What do you have to back it up and that describes exactly what they are best at? I don't think you can support this statement, and I am quite certain you can't support it as a universal statement.No, it is not an opinion, it is a universally accepted fact that maestros perceive and direct music even better with age in normal conditions... Then why do they almost always do their best, most memorable work in their earlier ages, at least the ones who bring forth new interpretations on classics? One could equate your statement to nothing more than good pattern matching. They have conducted said piece so many times, and with so many orchestras, that they instantly recognize when something is out of place, at least to their liking. However, we are talking for the most part what could be somewhat gross variances. However, their experience cannot overcome very real physical deterioration. They won't hear those quiet passages quite as well, or how well a quiet note tails off. But lets walk back your statement I don't think it is universally accepted that maestros perceive and direct music even better with age. I think you will find that statement hard to support. I think what you will find, is that the best conductors, are the best, no matter what age they are at. The remaining conductors at an advanced age are remaining, not because they are better with age, but because they are better period, and always have been. Did know there are studies into how long conductors live. They seem to have long average lives. |
I respect MahgisterI must say that i respect you totally also even if my discussion with you are in opposite terms...And in spite of sometimes harsh words between us... I learned a lot thanks to you and without your challenging arguments i never would have been able to create my mechanical equalizer... Being in opposite side dont exclude civility and even admiration or friendship... A human is not HIS opinion and arguments... And a master in pu-erh tea cannot be bad.....😊 But anyone can be wrong.... |
It's an opinion, just as yours is. There is as much to support his opinion as yours. Geez Really, there is not, but you do you. You seem to like trolling me to tell me I am wrong or misguided. One day you may back that up. I respect Mahgister. I may not agree with him, but at least he makes an honest attempt to justify many of his writings. What's your game? |
Best at what? This is quite a statement. What do you have to back it up and that describes exactly what they are best at? I don’t think you can support this statement, and I am quite certain you can’t support it as a universal statement.No, it is not an opinion, it is a universally accepted fact that maestros perceive and direct music even better with age in normal conditions... But my affirmation is valid in a world where perceiving is a QUALITY and a learning process, not a QUANTITY and a machine expertise who translate pitch in frequencies... But for you qualities are epiphenomenon reducible to quantities; pitch EQUAL frequencies and is not a simple correlation, nothing else.... Then all maestro are semi deaf old dudes that put a show and they will be replaced by A.I. The brain is ONLY a computer effecting Fourrier analysis after all.... Is it not? |
dletch2 This is quite a statement. What do you have to back it up and that describes exactly what they are best at? I don't think you can support this statement, and I am quite certain you can't support it as a universal statement.It's an opinion, just as yours is. There is as much to support his opinion as yours. Geez |
If you're ears aren't what they once were, your best friends are increased dynamic range, focus, detail and a more defined space between the notes." Except you don't possess the same ability to hear dynamic range you once did, and turning it louder, only gives temporary relief but hastens the decline. You likewise will never get the high frequencies back, no matter what you do. Without the ability to hear as quiet of notes, and inability to compensate by cranking it even louder, you have now lost the ability to hear detail too, and putting more into the music, does not allow you to hear more if you are already at the limit. Refined space between the notes is interesting, that would be more an acoustics things, fast decay to reduce instantaneous complexity, because your brain is also a bit slower. Don't worry, it is not all bad. Music is mostly under 10K, and almost all the acoustic cues for position are at even lower frequencies. Best thing about older, is usually less distracted and more time to relax and enjoy and to the point, actually listen, not just hear. |
The best ears in the world are old musicians and especially healthy orchestra maestros of 80 years old... Best at what? This is quite a statement. What do you have to back it up and that describes exactly what they are best at? I don't think you can support this statement, and I am quite certain you can't support it as a universal statement. |
The best ears in the world are old musicians and especially healthy orchestra maestros of 80 years old... A thing i dont understand is the "doubt" about their experience feeling by many.... Clean all doubts about your own hearing abilities and listen with relaxation and trust... I am 70 years old with an average hearing degradation for my age... I created devices and hundreds of changes in my system, and fine tune by ears my 32 tubes and pipes mechanical equalizer.... It takes times... I never think that i had a good listening power over other people before and in fact i am pretty sure that my ability are very average.... BUT I TRUST MY EARS COMPLETELY and listen relaxed after each of my experiments.... I listen to my feeling, is it good? Is it bad? is it an improvement.... And i trust my feeling on the spot without even thinking....We listen with our BODY not only our ears, then trust your feeling without inner contestation.... Simply listen, relax, open your ears body and soul, let the feeling emerge with the sound and corresponding to the sound and you will know without error this si such or such for me.... Simple... After all that my system is so good for me, nothing will give me the insane costly idea to upgrade.... All that make a system perfect, for sure on a degree which is the degree of optimal sound quality for what i have in ratio S.Q/price...But NO youtube costly system trash completely mine even the more costly.... They are better sometimes on all counts but not so much better and often they are non musical, harsh, fatiguing etc.... My Sansui amplifier or Mission cyrus speakers are not the top os the scale and NOTHING will change that... But my system is so rightfully embedded i feel no desire at all to buy anything at any cost.... I only listen any music forgetting sound....I can even because it is fun to do, times to times, new listening experiments....but i had already reach the limit of possible improvements.... It is only playing...I play relaxed... My best to all.... |
@perkri
I live with changes, adjustments, components in my system for a while so as to become numb to the changes. I need to hear the thing for what it is, what I like and what I dislike. That takes some time for my brain to shift to the new norm. Then I make changes.My exact way of assessment. I learned it by accident . But I learned it Listening is a skill, hearing is a matter of biology...Ditto |
Interesting discussion. Thanks for (almost) all of the comments. I'm going to make the point early in my comments that even with compromised hearing with age we can have a listening experience as enjoyable and engaging (if not more) as when we had our youthful "20/20" hearing. I'll get back this in later. As I understand it, hearing degradation occurs primarily at higher frequencies. Our perception of the world stays pretty well intact thru the majority of the frequency ranges. The fundamentals of instruments, voices and other things that make music recognizable and enjoyable are still there. And, bottom end still moves lots of air, and our clothing at full listening levels. We also can perceive changes in amplitude (dynamic range) whether it be as dramatic as a cymbal crash, raging guitar pushing itself out from the rest of the instruments as well as subtle vibrato and trailing voices (micro dynamics). As BB King stated: "It's not the notes I play, it's the space between them." Yes, our "clocks" still work and we can perceive rhythm and those "dark backgrounds" between the notes. Our "antennas" are still sensitive enough to pick up spacial information, send it to our (aging) brains to align and position instruments in space. Yes, our systems can still present a believable soundstage, place instruments and voices in a 3-dimensional space, and create a virtual center channel in the space between our speakers. In other words, our "old" ears can still capture the essence of great performances and send them to our brains in good enough shape so we can still marvel at miracle of having the energy and presence of deceased musicians standing (or, sitting) in our living rooms. Now back to the opening comment. I have to acknowledge that my hearing has deteriorated. The delicacy of extended high frequencies is missing in action. However, over 40-50 years I have become a better listener. In the 70's I wasn't listening for micro dynamics and dark backgrounds as I am today. I have also developed a profound appreciation for gifted musicians, producers, conductors, song writers, and those who produce the hardware that contribute to those speaker cones moving back and forth coupling with the air that creates the sounds that I hear that brain interprets that sends a message to my mouth to smile. As an "audio guy" who sold decent gear for all of my adult life, I often heard the comment: "Well, my hearing isn't very good. I don't need waste money on anything special." My reply went something like this: "So, if your eyes aren't very good, your best friends are large, dark print on white paper in good light. Correct? If you're ears aren't what they once were, your best friends are increased dynamic range, focus, detail and a more defined space between the notes." The goals of better audio are not inconsistent with hearing loss. In fact, hearing loss easy justifies the investment in better gear. |
@hilde45 Too late, you've already become trapped, deep in the rabbit hole :) I'be built most of my "tweaks". And I consider the chain of my system. Its only as good as its weakest link. And no point in putting one insanely strong link in that chain. With one caveat - is it something that can be moved forward if you start suffering from upgradeitis. I'm in the middle of dealing with my TT. Isolation is the main thing I'm going to be dealing with over the next little while. Not sure I have a specific methodology other than living with whatever I change for a while and see what I like, and what bothers me. The big sorbothane semi circles I had under the TT as a quick thing so I could physically place the TT on my rack were deadening the sound. Was a bit flat. Made some spikes and put under it as a temporary fix until I decide to go with springs, some kind of pod, roller blocks or some kind of combo of the above. And will I need some kind of big isolation block under it as well. I built my own rack as well. Double layer 3/4" ply used everywhere. With all the gear on it, it weighs in excess of 120lbs. It's going to be redone, not because of any audio issues I'm having, but the design doesn't work for my set up as it is now. When rebuilding, I will implement some modifications to the build and will be able to hear whatever difference it makes. About to redo the wires in the tonearm. The ones in it are the original ones and I'm curious to see what happens to the sound when they are replaced. I have to open it up anyway as there is a slight buzzing/hum coming from it thats bothering me. Not audible with the ESL-57's, but very audible with the Cornwalls. As it's a TT I built - Lenco L70 heavy plinth - it is new to me (put into service a week or so ago) most of the wires I installed were good, but not exceptional. Again, I want to live with it for a while before I start changing out something that may or may not be necessary. Up until this point, with this system, I have been doing tried and true "things". I built a basic "power bar/filter" using good quality sockets, wires and capacitors to aid in filtering noise on the AC line. Built the same filter for a friend and the noise floor dropped dramatically on his system. The rack is solid, and fairly dead acoustically. I've replaced all the "black plastic" IEC cords with 'better' heavy gauge cables and plugs. I've made new power cords for my ESL's as well as its own filtered socket. They are much quieter than before. All my interconnects are Kimber as are my speaker cables. I've had them for years and see no reason to swap them out. But, having said that, I am going to build some new interconnects using some quality wire/connectors and see what I hear before I move to change anything that gets costly. My speaker wires will also be done as an experiment to see what changes happen. I've re-capped my main amp - EL34 based integrated - that I bought new in the early 90's. Opened it up immensely , blacker background and more transparent. I had a 15 year hiatus from my audio interests - marriage/kids - and since the divorce 6 years ago, I have been returning to this hobby. When I get this to a point of "done" (which it will never be...), I'm going to remove everything and listen for the difference. To me, this is a journey. And its a journey where in between brief moments of "adjusting", I get to lose myself in music. In a nutshell. I live with things for a while to get accustomed to them, then I listen acutely to what is good, what is too much or too little. |
@perkri I really enjoyed reading your list of tweaks and the rationales for each of them! I'm still learning, so can you tell me how you listen to each tweak to determine what difference it's made and whether that tweak is working or not? Serious question because the only thing that will keep me from going down a rabbit hole is a process by which I can know (a) whether a tweak has done something and (b) the degree and character of it. Thank you. |
It never ceases to puzzle me how combative so many who post to this site are. The OP, it seems to me, was making a simple point: the "improvements" supposedly attributable to different cables, cable risers, etc. etc., are extremely subtle if they exist at all; in general, they are not even measurable by devices far more sensitive that our ears. And "our" ears, for the most part, are no longer young; even if you've been careful, it's very unlikely you can hear anything above about 12 KHz if you're over 50. When I was in college, I made a practice of visiting the campus health center once a semester to have my ears properly cleaned. I'd spend the rest of that day listening to music: the improvement was startling, and thrilling. But it didn't last long. And now, of course, I could not restore my youthful hearing just by having my ears cleaned (I've tried). Yes, the ear/brain connection that delivers sounds to consciousness, where they become music, is complex, not very well understood, and arguably improves with age and experience. That's a truism, too. But it wasn't the OP's original point. To perceive differences due to the electronic reproduction of frequencies that are too subtle even to be measured is problematic at any age, much less with age-compromised ears (and brains). So, sure: it all depends on what makes you happy, and no one, therefore, should make "objective" claims for tweaks or high-end products of almost any kind. BUT...this forum is all about offering advice to others about what to spend our money on. So things get out of hand easily; there's a strong confirmation bias involved in advocating for something one has decided is "worth" the investment. I want to just say: Get over it! But that's beside the point, too, as it would seem to be advice incompatible with this entire forum. So, at the end of this ramble, it seems I've answered my own original question. Why are audiophiles so defensive (and aggressive)? Because they've chosen, for whatever reasons, to spend a lot of money on things that cannot be shown to really make any objective difference, instead of on things their families need, or giving their "disposable income" to charities rather than to well-heeled audio hucksters. But, hey. Life's not fair. And "pleasure" is subjective and, as often as not, produced by webs of belief rather than objective facts. |
I think the OP has a point. I work in a highish end retail store and am constantly asked by colleagues and customers what I think about how one item compares to another, whatever it may be. I have to be honest...at 69 y/o, with many live rock concerts behing me, I am suffering from both age-related hearing loss and tinitus. I still hear the sound of music through my diminished auditory instrument, and can compare reproduced sound to live sound as I hear it now, but I simply cannot discern what I once did. Add to that the fact that my prime audiophile years were spent frequently under the influence of cannabis products, which I no longer do, and there is another factor distinguishing my "degree of certainty" about how things sound, relative to one another. |
@oregonpapa Thank you for that. The difference between hearing, and listening. Put an omni directional mic in a busy room. Play it back. Try do isolate any conversation and follow it. Not so easy to do. It hears everything, and listens to nothing. However, if in the room, with visual cues and listening, its possible to filter through the noise. Although, I do find it quite difficult lately. Put the same omni mic in the middle of the orchestra, and you're going to have a similar challenge isolating elements. But, wether in that room with a live orchestra, or listening to the same properly recorded performance at home (key word is listening...) elements can be isolated with ease. Listening is a skill, hearing is a matter of biology... |
I'm 82 and soon to be 83. I can still hear a lightly struck triangle in the rear of the orchestra. Due to tons of amazing tweaks, my audio system is better than it has ever been. The resolution is such that I can discern between drum heads covered in animal skin vs those covered with acrylic. I no longer listen for detail, bass, etc., I just listen to a performance unfolding in front of me that expands into an amazing sound stage. The system is seamless. Each performer is defined in a three-dimensional space, with all instruments having a lifelike size. I hear all of this with no problem. However, trying to carry a conversation in a crowded space, a restaurant, for example, affects my hearing. Ambient noise really sucks. Frank |
I qualify for old guy at 72. I never wore ear protection at rock concerts. The army never gave me ear protection to shoot a rifle. Have bad hearing but the one thing that some old guys have is a lot of disposable income...!The wife and I had no kids so gotta spend it on something. Have been buying back the vinyl I sold 30 years ago to go digital...! |
@edgewound What? Tweaks are not something that have to be overcome! Lets see... The components need to sit on top of something. Hmmm, do they sit atop a rickety old chair, or a solid platform? Tweak one... Now, to better control vibration, both inside and outside of the gear, some kind of isolation would be useful. Tweak two... These things all run on electricity. Not sure how clean the power is in my place, so some kind of protection/filter is likely a good idea. Tweak three... Now, I have to connect these components to the power. I'm going to get a well made cord that uses good materials and is properly assembled as opposed to some wire that was thrown together with plastic encasing it which was done by a giant machine designed to produce the most cost effective product possible. Tweak four... Now, I have to run the signal from the source to my amplifier. Now I know that small electrical signals are subject to interference from electrical noise, so I'm going to get some good interconnects that are shielded to preserve the integrity of that tiny signal. Don't want it getting muddied or distorted by this noise. Tweak five... My speakers are stand mounts. Going to need to put them on something. That sideboard is not such a great idea, its a big open box, and I'm sure the sound isn't going to benefit from that big open "bass bas" underneath. Stands are probably a good idea. Tweak six... Those speakers are going to be shaking a lot. Think I'm going to put something between them and the stand so as they vibrate, they move in such a way as to not fight with themselves. Want as much clarity as possible from them. Tweak seven... Going to have to connect them to my amp. They are really efficient, so its probably a good idea to buy some decent speaker cable. They are going to enhance any distortions because of their sensitivity, so no lamp cord here. Tweak eight... So edgewound, explain to me where the hurdle is here that needs to be jumped, or overcome? |
@jpeters568 Thank you for being open to considering these things. I live with changes, adjustments, components in my system for a while so as to become numb to the changes. I need to hear the thing for what it is, what I like and what I dislike. That takes some time for my brain to shift to the new norm. Then I make changes. It's not like its a lot of work anyway, I'm always listening to something be that radio - while working or driving, my DAP if on the subway or traveling, mostly vinyl when "enjoying music" and for convenience (and cost), digital when I try to seek out new music. Did some listening tests - speed listening yes - to a bunch of vintage amps that a friend had going through his place for one reason or another. Differences were not subtle. Ranging from bright and thin, to dark and bloated, from dynamic to a bit flat. It also happens that he has a ton of speakers in his place of differing designs, styles and sizes. (which I built). The "winner" of the amps, the one we preferred changed with which speaker it was mated with. So, decisions were made about which amp should stay based on removing the least interesting one of the bunch as well as the most "exciting". Interesting side note. I built him a pair of 8" full range horns (took some convincing as his main speakers were British stand mounts) My reasoning was I could build him another 3 way, but why? He already has one, why not go in a completely different direction and see what you think? He agreed to the 74"X14"X17" double back loaded horns. Are they particularly "accurate" from a measurement stand point? No. I also convinced him to buy a Heathkit tube amp from 1963, as a cheap experiment. I replaced the main power cap for him to get rid of the severe hiss, that was it. Again, flawed? for sure! However, the synergy between the big horns and that little 8watt amp is stunning. So much air moving, so open and transparent, so lively and present, yet in no way fatiguing at all. In that set up, he was running some rather "cheap" interconnects. I built some new wires for him (nothing extravagant, but properly made) and they did reduce the noise (better shielding) and were more "open"in the presentation. A lot of gear has gone through his place during the past year (covid...) but the Heathkit and the double horns remain. But, they can not be used as a reference tool, because their signature is so unique. He has 10 pairs of various enclosures for 4" drivers. They are all vastly different. The electronics are for sure the biggest part of the listening, tweaks to a lesser degree for me, but it all matters and all adds up. After spending time setting up a system, tweaks and all, if you were to suddenly remove all the little details, there would be a void left in the sonics. |
