Warm Tube Amp(s) to Tame Hyper-Accurate Speakers?

After lots of auditioning…

Linn Akurate DS Katalyst> Pass Labs XP20 > Pass Labs XA30.8 > Spendor D9s.

Very happy camper…

Many modern speakers seem to have an emphasised treble.That seems to be the way the world has gone-more of everything is considered better! They should come with an L pad so you can adjust the output .You could have them installed and say mounted on the back.

This is why god invented tone/eq controls.

Ok...I will turn in my audiophile card now.

@alphonsodamato 

please take note of the suggestions I mentioned in the D9.2 run in thread.  

however amplifiers and tubes (with tube amps) do also make a difference.

My D7s sounded excellent with a Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II as well as a Rogue Audio RP-7 preamp and Stereo 100 amplifier.  The RP-7 and Stereo 100 are very dark sounding pieces.  

OP,

How long have you had the equipment and speakers? Did you get everything at the same time? What did you have before? Room size? Setup? 

All the best.

Not looking to hijack this thread, but how would you put a ground wire on a speaker?

Thanks

I had a similar experience to the OP breaking in a pair of Harbeth 40.2 Anni's.  I solved the problem by positioning GIK 244 free standing panels parallel to the side and in front of each speaker, which addressed the first side reflection points.  While I no longer need or use the free standing panels, they did successfully solve a problem while my speakers were settling in.  If you are within driving distance to St. Louis, the GIK panels are available.

…..that’s precisely why I suggested putting damping pads on the first reflection point. Crossing in front of the listening position can collapse the soundstage

Have you tried playing with inverse toe in? In other words put the speakers to point at the side walls at your listening position, then gradually move towards the paralell position until you have no blind spot in the middle of the soundstage.

Side walls are a known source of harshness due to causing early reflections. So I see this as bad advice. Instead, toe in the speakers, possibly to the point that they cross in front of the listening position. Side wall reflections must be controlled else they are well-known to cause harshness. If the tweeter has a wide dispersion characteristic, this can make setup tricky.

Have you tried playing with inverse toe in? In other words put the speakers to point at the side walls at your listening position, then gradually move towards the paralell position until you have no blind spot in the middle of the soundstage. (You may need some Isolation on the first reflection point on the sidewalls to make it work. Changing the amp seems to me completely the wrong approach. Alternatively putting a large shaggy carpet in front of your listening position may achieve similar gains.Sometimes putting isolation boards on the ceiling halfway from the listening position also works

Without changing speakers, there are a few things you could try.  Some previously mentioned:

• felt tweeter rings
• Mullard CV4004 preamp tubes are fairly warm
• different speaker wires/
• different cables
• room treatment
• scrutinize your sources

That is a warm rig going into speakers that are not known for being bright.  I would need to dig into it, sometimes the wrong impedance curve on a speaker can make a tweeter sound hot when paired with a tube amp.  You might find switching to a neutral SS amp. Naim, AVM, AGD come to mind for me.  You should be able to borrow or buy on an amp on a return policy to test this.  

how is your room?  Damping matters and if the room is underdamped it could be creating this issue.   
 

Finally, If you are looking for a more “English” sound maybe Harbeth or Wilson Benesch will solve the issue.  You ought to be able to find a used pair of used 40.2s or the P2.0s in a similar price range.  

What about the source? 

What is the source of your music? Digital? Analog? That’s worth examining too. I lot of digital streaming equipment ( computers, DACS, servers) sound a bit harsh & over “etched” to me. They can be very tight, clean, fast & dynamic but I can’t listen for more than maybe ten minutes before I need a break. For me listening fatigue is the real determining factor of the quality of a system. Just about every system has something it could do better at but if my brain relaxes I enjoy & get into the music, it’s a “ good” system. 

I feel your pain and I mean no disrespect, but if you want to change something, change the way you buy and stop buying without audition. Any other way is just hit and miss. I understand that it is impossible for people in some locations, but I think if you buy new there is usually a return option. That said, I would change the speakers.  These are just not working for you. Been there. Also, while some doubt this, speaker cables made a huge difference in my Harbeths. If your lengths are not too long, try a used set of audience AU24,  or Purist Poseidons, which are not too expensive. Both sounded much smoother and more realistic than Belden cables in my system. 

Before any meaningful "solutions" can be offered, we need to understand the problem.  First, saying the mids and highs are too much could mean the same as the bass and upper bass is too thin--after all, tonal qualities are about relative balance of frequencies.  Is this a case of someone wanting more bass or warm in the upper bass rather than having issues with mids and highs?\

Could there actually be a problem with the gear or set up?  Has he had anyone else listen to diagnose if there is something completely out of place?  Has he tried any other gear?

Is this a matter of particular taste?  It would be helpful if the OP were to offer comparisons with other systems he has heard and liked or disliked. 

I have heard the MC275 VI and did not like it at all, but not really because it sounded bright--mainly because it sounded lifeless and unengaging.  It did have a slightly hard and brittle sound, not unlike other KT88 amps, and perhaps this is the issue.  

Try any of the earlier Cary Audio preamps/amps. You'll be swimming in syrup...

+1 @rodman99999 is asking fundamental questions for the OP. If these are not answered, then this really becomes a thread about mindless gear swapping.

@alphonsodamato -

     What tubes are you using in your 275 (small signal and power) and preamp?

     How much absorptive material in the room?

     Lots of hard surfaces, between you and the speakers?

     Is your music strident, with all sources?

I may have said this before but if you are not fond of steak, no amount of seasoning or preparation work is likely to change that fact.

So it is with a speaker.  If your speakers are restricting what music you listen to, something is fundamentally wrong with that choice.  And then to make matters worse, spending thousands of dollars hoping force the situation is usually money poorly spent as well.

Putting components together is akin to a talented chef choosing the right seasonings for a given entree--but don't expect him to turn steak into lobster.

@alphonsodamato - Is there any possibility of having your Spendor dealer loan you a pair of Classic 2/3's for comparison purposes.

That will quickly tell you if the speakers are the issue.

Yes I think we all know how painful that can be. Shortcomings is one thing. But once they are perceived...

These speakers appear to be absent a bi-amping option. With that, one is arguably  at the mercy of the speakers voicing and minus a remedy to work around any perceived short comings. Ouch

+1 @hilde45 on room acoustics. Often neglected but it is what will make it or break it. Good luck. 

If a Conrad Johnson amp can't fix it then you should ditch the speakers. Having said that way back I had a pair of Spendor BC1s and still rate them highly. Maybe things have changed at Spendor.

Even Spendor D9.2 drivers would benefit from grounding wires. Don't believe me? That's okay, but do try it and I'm sure you'll be bewildered and amazed. Those troublesome sources that sound harsh will suddenly be fine.

I second other poster’s comment on cables, without knowing what cables you are using, power, interconnect and speaker, no one can tell you why things are off. Another high probability is speaker placement in the room and toe in, it’s very likely you have placed the speakers in the right spot for the bass to couple to your room, therefore tonal balance is off

I hate to burst your bubble but I doubt anything is going to change those Spendors. I have owned many Spendors and they never had an aggressive high end. I would say that the newer D type Spendors are the problem that you describe. I think you will be spinnin’ your wheels changin’ gear. BTW, I always liked any Spendor that I’ve owned!

Spendor D9.2 Floorstanding Speakers

Features:
*Spendor LPZ (Linear Pressure Zone) tweeter*
The goal of every tweeter designer is to achieve linear acoustic output over a wide frequency range. In practice this is extremely difficult. Spendor’s approach to this age‐old challenge is radical, and it works. The Spendor LPZ tweeter is built around a stainless steel front plate which forms a damped acoustic chamber directly in front of a lightweight woven polyamide diaphragm. The front plate incorporates a phase correcting micro foil to equalise sound wave path lengths across the diaphragm surface, simultaneously it generates a symmetrical pressure environment on both faces of the tweeter diaphragm so the tweeter operates in a balanced linear mode. The front plate also provides excellent mechanical protection for the delicate tweeter dome and a smart modern appearance. Imagine focusing an ultra‐high quality camera lens until you see a clear bright image. That’s the effect of Spendor LPZ technology. Our sequential geometry micro‐foil operates like an acoustic lens. The result is perfect focus, uninhibited sound transmission and a very wide listening window. Sound images are vivid, in‐the‐air, as bright or sweet as any music demands.

jwpstayman nailed my first thought exactly. What SC’s are you using? I bought D7.2’s soon after they came out replacing the former D7’s and in my well treated dedicated listening room with all tubed gear they have never sounded bright per se to my ears but yes, speaker cables make a huge difference in my experience. I have Cardas Clear SC’s and Auditorium 23 SC’s and the Auditoriums really tame the highs with the Spendors.

The Spendor haters kind of tick me off until I calm down and remind myself that there is no reason to give two sh*ts what they think.

System synergy is real. It could be your choice of amp, preamp, interconnects, digital rig, or room or all or some in combination.

Auditorium 23’s are amazing speaker cables. They are not easy to come by new at the moment so you may need to source a used pair. The Auditoriums with my Spendor 7.2’s and with my Devore O/93’s (I rotate them every six months for grins) do tone, texture, timbre, and space better than my Cardas. The Cardas excel at dynamic drive, snap, pin-point imaging, and deep bass.

If you check out the gear used by S'Phile reviewers, last time I checked more than half of them had Auditorium 23 SC's in their arsenal. For ~$900 new they are amazing. 

I bought Splendor D7's based upon all the fabulous reviews a few years ago now, but have regretted it as soon as they arrived.  This D series is not my idea of a great English loudspeaker. The upper kids and lower treble range is sublime on perfect recordings, but unfortunately those are not the majority of my vinyl recordings that I have purchased during my 50 plus year hobby. I love transparency, but bleached sound is not for me. I even have older tube equipment that is more mellow than most SS sounding modern tube gear is to me.  I don't get the hype for this series personally.

Perhaps it’s not your equipment but your room acoustics.

hold on a second... what speaker cables are you using to connect the 275 to the Spendors?  That might make all of the difference in the world here.  Let us know before doing anything drastic.

Keep the amp, sell the Spendors. No amount of front end, cable, or source changing will fundamentally alter how a speaket is voiced, and if they're too hot, they're too hot.

Perhaps warm tubes is what you need, not a warm amp.

Also, room acoustics might be at work.

Before you swap out gear, try to analyze your room with REW. The time and trouble it takes to learn to analyze your room is a fraction of the hassle of playing gear-swap whack-a-mole.