Lack of affection as a child?

@thecarpathian exactly ! My thoughts exactly! Low self confidence. lol 😂 

I hear voices in my head. 🥸

Dunning–Kruger Effect

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which people with limited competence in a particular domain overestimate their abilities.

Here's the Simple description

“My experience (belief or assumption), because it seems (IS) so correct, so right, (for me), MUST be the only possible experience, for others, too.”  (This is far different from the D-K Effect.)

As in “cables (fuses, etc.) don’t (can’t possibly) make a difference in sound.”  And the negative judgements are frequently not based on personal experience.  Remember the cartoon strip “There Oughta Be a Law?” 🙃

Never listen to what others say and base everything on what you hear ..

Of course being a hobby and not knowing what you are going to hear until you put it in your own listing room . A Amp.speakers, Cables or DACs..ect..But we all have too start a baseline and that all starts with how much money we have for this hobby..6k tube amp vs 20k or 250 dollar vs 5k speaker cables..And when you build your base for a while you are happy but always chasing for better sound..But you have to experiment and that comes down to your dollars you have and willing to experiment ..And age and hearing quality play big part in all this and at older age how much hearing have I loss ..I am still blown away with my tube Amp and oldies songs and what I hear that I never did with solid sate and I have tinnitus and wonder my god what I missed years ago if I had this setup...I found out USB cables and 35 dollar Staple Cable vs Audio Quest Carbon 1600 and 2 other Audio Quest cheaper cables and what a change in sound..Had to experiment to find out with my own ears what I could or couldn't hear.. But I am not going to find out about 5k or more speaker cables for just do not have those funds for that .. So I have to be happy with what I have ..Enough is enough..

It's clear to me that some people come here solely to disrupt and ridicule. They're trolls, although some are cleverly disguised. But in general, there is no shortage of people who want to tell others how to run their lives. Both groups are generally best ignored.

I will mention this at the 10AM troll huddle. We need to step up our game.

grislybutter

I will mention this at the 10AM troll huddle. We need to step up our game.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." (Maya Angelou)

haha exactly! 

Delusions of grandeur. My system and virtually every system is absolutely unique, how anyone believes they know what I hear with my system in my room requires super powers.

+1, follow what @cleeds wrote,

It's clear to me that some people come here solely to disrupt and ridicule. They're trolls, although some are cleverly disguised. But in general, there is no shortage of people who want to tell others how to run their lives. Both groups are generally best ignored.

We all see the same people jump in and post over and over about how something is not good, and yet they cannot explain having ever tried it before themselves.   

I don’t think it’s my job to know everything possible between your ears and your brain.  It's certainly possible with proper training a neural network could pick out the difference in the number of strands of wire used between power cable X and Y.

However I do think it’s possible to be such a critic you lose the ability to enjoy fine equipment and fine music. I’d rather be some one who can have a great $12 bottle of wine and enjoy it than someone who endlessly critiques a $300 bottle. Worse yet, I’d hate to be someone who endlessly critiques a $5 bottle of wine either.

Along those lines, we seek out demanding speakers to pair them with excessive amplifier power for the sake of... well honestly I do not know.

We chase after a tiny difference and throw hundreds of dollars or more at the slightest difference without concern for whether it’s worth the asking price.

I have spent a great deal of my audiophile life listening for nuance and critiquing and now it’s time for me to listen to the musicians and I’m happy to do that with equipment far less expensive than whatever graces the cover of Stereophile.

IMHO, there is a great variance in what people are able to hear, and what they are not. Some of it may be their actual hearing acuity, the resolution of their system/ears, their training, there are so many factors. How presumptuous to tell someone what they are hearing.

Pre covid, I attended lots of concerts, and simply do not hear the kind of soundstage that many audiophiles prefer. No problem to me if they like the effect, or if they hear that type of soundstage in the concert hall, we all pay our money and can do what we like.

An audiophile here here argued that I did hear pinpoint imaging in the concert hall and that I was was disingenuous in reporting otherwise. Hey, maybe my hearing just sucks. I wish that I could allow him to hear through my ears.

Not knowing the scope of your own ignorance is part of the human condition. The problem with it is we see it in other people, and we don't see it in ourselves. The first rule of the Dunning–Kruger club is you don't know you're a member of the Dunning–Kruger club.

David Dunning

Erik, exactly.

About to become very close to the age of 80, I still find myself fighting the urge to upgrade or experiment. That's a battle I feel I've mostly won. Considering what I had and could afford throughout most of my life, I feel I've achieved a level now that makes me happy. The other important truth that I've come to learn is that (at least for me) the chase is where the thrill is. Once you have what you thought you should have, the itch starts up again.

So, yes. I'm extremely happy with what I have now and for a totally outlay of less than many here spend on a pair of speaker cables. Not to denigrate those that have high dollar audio systems, but we all have to set limits, find our comfort zone and enjoy the music. If you are happy with your system, ignore what others think and enjoy.

@artemus_5   &   @gdaddy1

Dunning–Kruger Effect

                EXACTLY!

Why do it? Because they are A-holes.

Some guys lack a healthy sense of self-worth. They define themselves strictly in terms of a competitive pecking order that requires them to continually "prove" they are "superior" to others, whether smarter, stronger, more sexually dominant, wealthier, etc.

This syndrome is definitely not limited to audio!

Interesting question. My first thought is that audiophiles are not guilty of this offense. Kind of by definition. It is another set of people... anti-audiophiles?

One of the trends in HEA is the "I’m smarter than you guy". This group has always existed but has exploded due to mainly budget orientated Youtube audio sellers that make outrageous claims. Even an Audiogon poster claims a Fosi amp is all one needs(lol). The Irony of this is the Youtube "cult" leaders are lying and laughing while manipulating these unaware "smart guys" with a profitable side hustle.

Because faulty logic and lack of experience overrules an open mind. 

I try to keep an open mind about everything.  I have not experienced anything paranormal, but I also have a hard time believing that everyone (including my mother and wife) are making up their experiences or imagining it. Thus, I find myself watching lots of paranormal shows. 

Yet, some people feel that audiophiles are fools and that it's impossible to hear differences in a high end cable versus a basic copper cable.  Do they really think that that many people are stupid? 

@thecarpathian

Something I’ve never seen mentioned is we all have the same basic equipment when it comes to hearing,

 

Perhaps because there are noticeable variations in this regard? For example, I’m particularly sensitive to highs and this very much impacts my perception of sonics and gear choices.

Hi, @stuartk ,

I agree, that's why my full sentence is ; 

Something I’ve never seen mentioned is we all have the same basic equipment when it comes to hearing, but it ends there. 

@cleeds BINGO! 

@sns that sounds logical.   Exactly! 

@dayglow ooh wee! 

@sls883 the ones that say we are not hearing a difference actually think we are stupid. They think we are all suckers and the are the geniuses  WE ARE ROBIN THEY ARE BATMAN!

I hope not, tights give me a rash...

So if someone tells you that they can hear (not feel) an 8 Hz or 28kHz sine wave, that doesn’t give you pause?  What if tracks are accompanied by satanic rites heard only by them?

Some things are beyond recognized audibility and it is a fool’s errand to try to convince some people otherwise.

CAUSE WE ARE SMARTER. CAN HEAR THE FART OF A KNAT. AND KNOW BETTER THAN THEM. THIS OUR HEARING IS LITERALLY OUT OF THIS WORD !!!! .

But seriously folks. We all here know its more training and teaching others what to and not to listen for. Hell, I’ve been an "expert" for over 40 years ! My Buds in High School and many friends to this day ask me for advice.

My first questions is how much are you willing to spend. The 2nd one is with or without wires. Arrogance doesn’t help especially if someone is just starting out in the hobby young or an old Fxxxck !

All Good Points. But there's another factor in play. I used to manage a HiFi Stereo Store back In the day. We had most all Popular Speakers and Amps and Turntables as well as high end cartridges. Also Had all kinds of High end Separates.

The funny thing was what one person loved in combo "A"push button setup, meaning we could push a few buttons and connect any piece to any other piece of equipment, someone else thought it didn't sound as good a Combo "B" they were listening to.

The end result was evident to us. No two people see Color the same....No two People Smell the same smell...and No two people hear the same. When it comes to hearing, biologically, are ears work slightly different, But most of all... Are ears are just Microphones. How we hear is thru the Human Brain. 

So the end factor to us was to just simply select speakers based on what the customer said he liked in a speaker.. Hi ...Mid ..Low. After some time the right combo was selected based on the Preamp Stage of the unit and the output stage of the amplifier plus the speaker.

So what it all means from my $.02 worth is..... Whatever sounds good to you is the correct system.Of course, you should take the time to listen to all in your price range.

It’s always been a matter of defining what “the threshold of audibility” is. The experimental psychologists have run double blind studies with samples of normal subjects, and come up with answers we audiophiles accept in principle, like a 3dB difference is certainly audible, and a 20dB difference is twice as loud, or that even a .25dB volume disparity will spoil the reliability of an A-B comparison in favor of the louder signal. Controlling for these errors with precision, maintaining the listener blindness, it’s rare that listeners can reliably discern many of the substitutions of cables or components unless one of them introduces a significant alteration to the signal’s integrity…

Even the ASR crowd fall into error by rating SINAD down to infinitesimally low levels. As if less than inaudible distortion or noise is somehow…less. 

I don’t hear as well as I did when young, so my opinion means less now, but I can’t separate the profit motive behind commercial claims of superiority for whatever is being promoted from the verifiable evidence of that claim’s validity.  People hear differently and no doubt some people hear better, but the lure of our hobby is mixed up with all kinds of extraneous factors besides what it takes for truthful sound reproduction. 
 

@rajugsw we can hear a fart from knat! Seriously we can! 

@mrkrichman man you are spot on. We all hear at different levels.  We have all different tastes. We all have things we like and things we don’t like. That’s what drives me crazy about these damn know it alls that say we have some kind of scientific condition that we don’t know we have GTFOH! 

Because some audiophiles are scientists. If it does not show in the measurements, it’s not there.

About to become very close to the age of 80, I still find myself fighting the urge to upgrade or experiment.

@llg98ljk  - There's nothing wrong with wanting to experiment, at all, especially if your nature is to be a builder or DIY hobbyist.  I make my own speakers and I doubt I'll ever be "done" because it is fun to try new things.  If for instance an audiophile likes to cycle amps and speakers, or cartridges then sure, sounds fun. 

Lets have fun without turning into boors trying to impress others with the refinement of our ears.

@mrkrichman I agree with most of what you posted, but our ears are not just a microphone, the ear also has amplifying abilities, your brain just determines how much.

@mrkrichman man you are spot on. We all hear at different levels.  We have all different tastes. We all have things we like and things we don’t like. That’s what drives me crazy about these damn know it alls that say we have some kind of scientific condition that we don’t know we have GTFOH! 

I have 4 E/V Sentry III's. One on top of the other left and right, The Top one is turned upside down so the two horns are near each other. They are driven by a Marantz Model 500 for the Low 15's... and a Marantz 250 M that drive the Horns and Tweet's. all being pre-amped by a Marantz 3300. Not Bragging... but  to me at Concert Level... they sound really nice.

Enter a fellow Audio Nut bud of mine and he thinks no matter what level you play them at, they suck. LMAO.  Than again someone else thinks they are nice but they take up alot of room and could take them or leave them.

So I just put on Pink Floyd or a direct to disc recording....light up a Cigar and sit back and enjoy my stuff.  You could say..... "You'll Never Be Unhappy With The Best" But when it comes to reproducing Audio, that doesn't always apply.

I know for a Fact how Live sound ...Sounds. I worked and travelled with Frank Sinatra and a 43 Piece orchestra for about 7 years as well as Acts like Diana Ross. They all had different sound mixers. Some lasted.. Some were fired ..Some quit. Why??? Because the Artist came out during rehearsal and didn't like what they heard. 

The only exception was Frank... He just screamed at the band if it didn't sound right on stage in front of a 43 piece band. So..It's all in the ears and Brain Of the beholder....L.O.L.

Simply... they are a-holes.

I think @jmalen123 wins the prize! 🏆

@thecarpathian 

Sorry if I misunderstood. I guess I tend to believe "basic" encompasses more than having ears and auditory nerves. But was that, in fact, all you meant?  

I meant we all have the same biological parts, but we all hear differently. I just posted it in a ridiculous, long winded way!

Some folks feel insecure or uncertain about their own choices, and asserting their opinions on others gives them a sense of validation or confidence.

My guess, always feeling like a novice, is that people might not know who to believe among the (self) anointed experts.  Seeing that experienced and knowledgeable people disagree, some might suspect there is no “right” answer and that people convince themselves that they don’t need to “go to extremes” to enjoy audio, and that people that do are plagued by some validation bias (they want to believe it, so they do).  

And then there is the law of diminishing returns, which is real.  The difference between a clock radio and a simple stereo set-up is large, while the cost is small.  And going up from there the improvements per money spent diminish.  I understand people that can’t afford much thinking that they are getting a lot and still saving money compared to the mega-deluxe systems.  They think, “I have almost as much as they do — maybe 95% — and I spent a few thousands, while they spend 10’s of thousands for that top few percent improvement.”   But to some the most elusive improvements are everything and worth the money, which they obviously have to spend.

To each their own. 

Good philosophy @erik_squires!

It’s how some people choose to interact online.  They may behave the same way in person.  Some people believe things strongly and feel they have to correct others that think or feel differently.  On this site it’s sound on another site it could be politics or food and wine.  If you read about emotional intelligence it’s about having low EQ and boundary issues.  As my Dad used to say, don’t let the turkeys get you down.  

I just joined the troll union.enjoy the search and the music