Would you rent a $14,000 DAC for $75 per day?

You need to think this through.  I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

No

Yes I would. 75$/day can save you many thousand dollars

IMO, their is no better way to test a DAC and the sinergy with your system than trying it in YOUR system.  Personally, I don't need 5 days to know if a DAC worth its cupgrade

15 minutes is enough for me to know if it is an upgrade , downgrade or a side move,  I would be happy to find a local dealer offering it by example for MSB DAC in my room.

+1 onhwy61

Who's going to help troubleshoot if you have issues? If the dac has a built-in streamer and issues with connectivity? Wrong cables? 

It sounds like fertile ground for nightmares. I wouldn't do it, especially if it needed to be shipped rather than picked up.

Between potential shipping mishaps and a customer mishandling/damaging your equipment the risks may outweigh the rewards.  If you have equipment you’re not using I’d just sell it.  Think how many times you’d have to rent the Tambaqui to recoup the amount you could get by just selling it — seems like it’d be a lot. 

Renting would be infrequent at best and while you're waiting, value is going down, and every time you send it off chance of damage, losing it, theft go up.

question #1 insurance. Would anyone ship it with insuring it for 14K? It is around 2%, both ways 4% total which is $560 already. 

Problem is shipping.  Unless you live in NY or LA and have a huge market within driving distance, shipping will be a show stopper.

$75/day = $2,250/month

No, doubtful you’ll find:

1. an audiophile + 
2. can afford $2.3k/month +
3. Choose your option rather than common alternative to purchase.

If one saves for 7 months, can purchase own new unit - much better than what you are offering

Also, with renting comes wear and tear, and you may run into trouble if they drag their feet on returning

Testing DAC to test then return asap might be worth it to some who are specifically interested in your particular DAC,

Personally, I wouldn’t want the risk- if something goes wrong with the DAC, who’s going to pay to fix, them?  It’s one thing being right, quite another to make them pay for repair.

Depending on if it was already broken in and how much shipping with insurance was, I might give it a try.  But I really don’t want to pay $75 a day to burn in something or pay an additional $500 in shipping costs.  See if anyone within a couple hours drive from you has what you are looking for.

Thanks for all the brutal replies. Lots of shade, but I still like the idea. This business model is not without precedent. 
 

Food for thought - I can rent a Leica M11 camera (MSRP $8000) from Lensrentals.com  - $67/day for 7 days. They don’t take a deposit, but do offer optional insurance to limit my liability. It’s shipped to my house in a Pelican case (roughly the size of the Tambaqui Pelican case) for $25 each way FedEx 2 day. 

Could I purchase the Leica from a retailer with a 30 day return policy? Yes, but I’d be putting $8000 down and be expected to follow through. I’d rather rent it for a week, decide if I like it, then purchase preowned for a $3000 discount.

No!!!!!!!!  

Great idea if you were a dealer and any rent goes towards purchase. But without that... no. I wouldn't rent one... and you have so many potential liabilities.. No.

@audio_bidder 

Your comparison with rental cameras is interesting. If this is the right assumption, it seems that the likelihood of goods being stolen in HiFi is much higher than in specialty cameras for unknown reasons. Using your own equipment for this purpose and enduring the wear and tear of shipping and Joe Blo’s use may break your heart. Having experienced my equipment stolen and broken by FedEx, I would not like to pursue such a dream, as it seems to be a nightmare in-waiting. Yet, I’d love to rent or otherwise, sample gear from known friends I can drive to in my systems.

The list of possible problems is just too long, even for stores to give out gear for customers to try at home, this is rare enough. Show me a store that will lend you a Tambaqui DAC...

You need insurance (if the equipment creates an issue at the renter’s home), the equipment needs insurance (if faults develop), and the shipping needs insurance (FedEx don’t payout on their own insurance). I shake my head... nice dream though.

Even for HiFi societies or clubs to ’exchange’ or ’share’ equipment is a challenging dynamic.

“ cupgrade “,,,,, about lost it..

OP you might pose same ? on WBF…. another set of audiophiles…

No. Some people either don't know or don't care to follow the proper sequence for turning on a system (starting with the source) or turning it off (starting with the amp). Additionally, some people neglect to turn off the system before swapping out cable connections. There are many unsuspecting / ignorant individuals out there—you never know. Hi-fi audio gear is delicate, and it's best not to take any chances. 

No. And it might have been $14K to the initial purchaser, but rental value would be calculated on used fair market value since a used article is what is rented. And then there is the issue whether any DAC is worth $14K given the considerably lower price points of other well-rated DACs.

I think people are missing the point.  Rent at $75/day for 2 days to see how it sounds with your system before buying it makes great sense and is a reasonable price.  Shipping is a problem as I pointed out earlier. 

No, people won't pay $75/day for a long term rental for daily use, but I don't think that is the proposed business model.  

Jerry

5 day minimum.

Another thought, if it comes back broken, who's at fault? Who's liable, the shipper? The customer?

The forum is full of incidents of Lost, stolen, damaged gear, and that's with a single shipping. But, your circus, your monkeys. Weigh out the pros and cons. Develop a business model and liability contract. Are you going to be a tax paying business entity? 

Camera rentals are usually done by pros who need a specific piece of gear for a short-term project. Lots of professional equipment is rented this way.

A DAC at $14K (ridiculous, IMO) is rented to someone who wants to hear a particular piece of gear in their personal system who can then decide whether the juice is worth the squeeze. If the purpose is to then buy the DAC or not at new or used price, cost for the experiment $350+ shipping. That business model might work for some things in some places, but I doubt the extremely rarefied market of very high end gear would be one of them. Maybe if you were a dealer of that $14K DAC and you offered the rental service in a large metropolitan area to potential customers to draw interest, you might get a couple of takers, but the clientele would be a small and rarefied group. I doubt there are a lot of fence-sitters thinking of spending that much on a DAC who would be drawn by a short-term rental option, enough to make setting up the business worthwhile, even with the potential for generating a stock of used units that could be sold at a discount.

Camera rentals are in place supported mostly by professionals that need a particular piece of gear for a particular short term assignment. I have used them to try out a lens but found a place close to avoid the shipping barges.

I’ve also used the Cable Co to try out about 10 different cables. But I’m going to say those are less fragile than a Mola Mola.

from the consumer side, I could see spending 750 for a two week in house demo to see if I wanted to purchase. More than that, I can fly to a dealer who can have one set up for me.
 

all in all, just too much risk on your end. 

"Thanks for all the brutal replies. Lots of shade..."

@audio_bidder ,

Sorry no one is coming off all kumbaya for you with posts of positive reinforcement, but these responses are hardly brutal. They’re just apparently not what you wanted to hear. This isn’t unsolicited advice; you asked. Also, no one is throwing shade. No one is ridiculing your idea. If you think its worthwhile, do it. If you don’t, don’t do it. Simple as that. If you still think it’s a good idea, set the wheels in motion. Only way to find out, isn’t there. I'll finish my tough love speech with this; To me, renting out a single dac is like owning a car rental business that has one car. 

@audio_bidder 

I think some "creative marketing" with a litthe 4th grade math might be helpful here.

Instead of dollars per day, perhaps provide a little more granularity into the equation.  Cost per complete album, song, or bass riff, rim shot?

"For a mere pennies per  ...."

Local borrowing would be better. Set a minimum number of days, get a deposit, and meet in person with the unit. 

I'm letting a friend borrow my Holo Audio Spring for a couple weeks and he's loaning me his Debussy DCS. No money involved. I could see this moving in the direction proposed by the OP, but not without the local, deposit, and trust-establishing elements.

@thecarpathian the liability contract lensrentals.com uses is good. It puts an emphasis on the lessee handling the gear with care. If the lessee is negligent and breaks something, they’d be on the hook to pay for repairs performed by a 3rd party or internally. Lessee can limit their liability by purchasing affordable insurance coverage. As far as a tax paying entity, I’d have to make some real money first, but yes if I generated income I’d form an LLC and pay taxes appropriately. Side benefit- a $14,000 DAC would then be considered a business purchase, a $14,000 tax write off to offset income from the business. 
 

Side tangent - I truly appreciate all the feedback, you’ve made valid points that I didn’t previously consider. However, I’m not dissuaded. When I started real estate investing 10 years ago, family and friends pointed out all the things that could go wrong, but I did it anyway. “Tenants won’t pay and there’s nothing you can do about it! They’ll destroy your property! Debt is risky!” But I still pursued it. And it’s one of the best decisions of my life. It’s allowed me to retire decades early and brainstorm other hair-brained business ideas;)

Not saying this is the same as real estate (RE appreciates). But folks, you can rent virtually anything - cars, dump trailers, DJ equipment, $50k RED cinema cameras, boats, Ferraris, someone’s personal house, etc. Seems like the only thing you can’t rent is hifi gear. 
 

The odds of me doing that are the same as a cable maker admitting their products make no difference in objective testing.

I remember the days when there were any number of local or near local dealers with whom I could home demo for free (security deposit required), certainly a valuable service. I too see many possible negatives with this, I'd never be one on either side of this transaction, but who knows it could work, start a whole new business model for audiophiles to afford systems they couldn't otherwise afford. CableCo. and their lending library is example of business model that works for cable rentals.

Where did that idea come from? What's the rationale?

Many vendors have some sort of trial period, typically 30 days. The only thing for customer to pay is potentially return shipping. At $75/day, that is $27K/year, so about twice the purchase price.

For something like a party rental, nobody needs that kind of a DAC. 

So again, what is the business plan/rationale?

Right now, outside of local dealer lending, we have two choices to hear stuff in our homes.  Both go better with some up front research to make sure you have an idea of what you want first.

1. Buy something and sell it if it doesn’t work out for you, or
2. Buy something from a dealer (or manufacturer-direct) that offers a trial/return period.

The lending thing has issues that most would believe outweigh any positives, including:

• Shipping/insurance costs, as already pointed out,
• Potential damage from shipping or mishandling/user error,
• Insufficient up front fees (i.e., security deposit) to inhibit scamming or theft by bad actors,
• People keeping the item beyond the agreed-on time interval, and
• Capital invested and tied up in gear, that could otherwise generate income through much less risky investments,
• Gear that sits around generating no income because few want to pay to audition, and
• The gear continues to depreciate in value.

It seems a better option is to simply sell stuff you are not using.  If you miss it, then buy another one of the same thing.  Many of us have done that, at least once.

IMO the juice would not be worth the squeeze.  Would you “vet” the potential renters?  If yes how?  Your high value equipment could end up in the hands of a neophyte interested in maxing out the volume for house shaking parties. But that is just one risk. I would not recommend it in any case. 

Seems like the only thing you can’t rent is hifi gear. 

I think you made the point with the comparison to houses and Ferraris. 

How many people want to rent real estate? Pretty much 40%+ of the society

Ferraris? Probably 1 out of 10 men. 

14K DAC? 99 out of 100 people won't even know what a DAC is. 

@audio_bidder ,

I can certainly respect your decision and your drive to succeed.

You seem to be going into this with more business acumen they you have led on. 

If you do decide to go for it, I wish you nothing but success.

Interesting question.  I would rent a piece of equipment if I was planning on an expensive upgrade to try before buying.  It would be a big risk on your part to mail it out and expect it back unless you could protect the cost of your equipment in case it’s damaged, lost or stolen.  

I think the premise of this is horrifying.

So you have $100,000 worth of gear sitting around and that means you’re foregoing about five grand a year in interest income.

So the $5000 Plus the hundred thousand dollars is what it cost to occasionally turn on music.

And then to say I can rent something for $75 a day which is about $25,000 a year for a dac really seems absurd. Equating money for audio gear after you purchase it is cruel.

I think a better choice would be if dealers were to create an exchange program between their customers who like to sample different types of gear. This is certainly more convenient and it’s a service that might be worthwhile to pursue for a dealer. Smaller gear that can be easily handled between customers and certainly a dac or a preamplifier or a receiver or a D amplifier is something that can be handled without getting a lot of people involved but for speakers and amplifiers forget about it

I have idle gear sitting in smaller boxes and if the dealer doesn’t want to buy it back which I can’t imagine would make sense since I don’t wanna give it up I could see offering it as an exchange or loan if I got something in return that I could try. But I hate bringing the money factor in all the time. It’s just something nice to do that the dealer can offer up since they’re making money on your loyal business. 

And likely it may lead to something of benefit to the dealer.

Hey, there are car dealers who rent out super and hyper cars on a daily basis. Why not hyper audio rentals?

I would  have no interest in this.

I’ll pass. 

Usually I borrow whatever for a week without any fee more than the cost of the travel or shipping. 

I'd rent. Great way to try out gear.

"But folks, you can rent virtually anything - cars, dump trailers, DJ equipment, $50k RED cinema cameras, boats, Ferraris, someone’s personal house, etc. Seems like the only thing you can’t rent is hifi gear. "

Not really the same. If I am a landscaper and need a Vermeer stump grinder or a forestry cutter, someone will rent me one and it is up to me to rationalize that cost to the project. Same with a RED camera. Both are rented as tools for a project. Renting a DAC for a trial is more like renting an article of clothing, except even then not the same. Clothing rentals are usually for a unique event and are done because the renter does not foresee an ongoing use case for the item rented.  I could see the service as an entree to purchase by a dealer (credit the rental charge to the purchase, if done.) A DAC is a permanent part of a system; you need one or you don't. If you aren't going to sell the same high-dollar DAC, why bother? I doubt there is that much curoisity to make a useful market. Of course, if you are looking to buy a stock of equipment  as part of a venture on paper, have a writeoff for the gear and occasionally rent the items, then that is a different issue. I can't see it making any real money, though.

OP…. You are kidding right? Or why don’t you just sell or trade the gear you don’t listen to? Too simple an answer? Maybe buy a boat and leave the hifi to the music listeners…

@audio_bidder -- besides the exposure of physical damage or theft, don't forget you'll probably also want to purchase general liability coverage. There is the chance the unit's power supply could be damaged in shipping and end up shocking someone or starting a fire in their house, with them suing you. Even if not directly your fault, you'd still be dragged into the claim.

Your homeowner's policy would probably not provide coverage as HO policies typically exclude business operations.  Without a GL policy, you'd be left to pay out of your own pocket the legal fees and any damages that result.  (And, as a commercial property & casualty broker the past 40+ years, the odds of you find affordable property and liability coverage for this type of business operation as likely very slim.)

...one could always contact Lloyd's about insurance, but the service might end up costing more than the DAC in discussion....

Interest in that $ level would obviously infer you've got the means to make to make it stand and deliver, or go home.  

I don't hate you for that. ;)

I'd have a few conversations to get any or all of the above concerns moot, and joust onward.  Oh, and get it all on paper and Read it.

Next step, win the Lotto...*L*

No.

No.

No.

I think this idea has potential, If you’re okay with possible damage, loss and theft, start with the Tambaqui and see what happens. I'm guessing there would be more interest in auditioning speakers. But they don’t ship well.

If you’re a serial entrepreneur, this could be a fun challenge. A lot of risk and headaches for the ROI. Maybe pay a consultant’s fee to a high-end camera rental manager to learn about the pitfalls.