$50k - $80k Budget…Opinions please.

So very true @ghdprentice I am listening to a small SPL Audio system that just sounds amazing and it came in under $10K. I am not saying it is a giant killer but it is an amazing brand and has come cutting edge technology under the hood.  

ghdprentice,

I actually didn't read your post that's why I made the comment.

ghdprentice,

I actually did read your post that's why I made the comment

ghdprentice,

I did read your post and you said and I quote $160,000 system will always some better than an $80,000 system that was your own words and I responded saying no that's not the case all the time just depends what equipment you're using what wiring you're using what speaker you're using I've heard $80,000 systems at some better than $200,000 systems so you were wrong as usual.

Mr. Prentice wrote, "I found that carefully chosen component at each level sounds better than the last… so a $80K system will sound very significantly better than a $40K system and not nearly as good as a $160K."

I bolded the contentious part. Perhaps you should read more carefully before you post, especially if you are being highly critical.

Agree wholeheartedly with the recommendation to devote up to 5K of your ample budget to travel, auditioning systems with established synergy. Audio Connection in Verona NJ would be high on my personal list listening to Vandersteen Quattro CT and Kento CT paired with Ayre electronics. With your budget, would also audition Wilson and Sonus Faber. On the back end, make sure to spend money on room treatments —as 50% of what you hear is the room.  

@ghdprentice I am in agreement with you about the 'careful choices' needing to be considered. There is an additional requirement which is footwork. The options for  a selection of devices, especially ones that are capable of showing each component at its best does not just appear, they are usually found.

My system is a end product of what I will call a pre-forum era, much footwork has been put in and the result being, I have met with likeminded individuals and formed long term communications and friendships. I have been fortunate to have made discoveries that are far beyond my expectations.

As part of my social activities around my Audio Enthusiasm, I have demonstrated my system at weekend event I have been a visitor to on quite a few occassions.w , This event has been known to have up to 500 Visitors in attendance to experience a range of enthusiasts systems.

On the weekend of my Demo' I had a filled room that was not emptying, some attendees returned and stayed for most of the day. Some were quite frequent visitors and regularly requesting tracks to be played.

A Father and Son came to me at the end of the day and had deliberately made this time as a return visit, they informed me they owned a HiFi Company and have been producing TT's that retail at £50K and upwards, they also informed me the system I was demonstrating was on par with much of what they have heard from their own Clientele, where systems can easily accumulate a £200K retail value.

I was asked to play a Vinyl Track they had in their possession, one they knew very well, I was given a pat on the back as big thank you.

If I done my Math, I would be less that £40K all in, even with much of the system having been Commissioned to be Bespoke Designed and Built by time served very adept EE's and Engineers.

$50K as a budget, or up to $80k, is serious spending. Cautiousness is ones best friend, as there will be some real efforts made to encourage an individual to spend a large proportion if not all in a particular quarter.

I know a 'from the home' HiFi Dealer, based about 15 Miles from my home. Iwas once in their company when going through a rough trading patch and considering an alternative means for a income.

There was a suggestion of maybe a backer could be found to invest. I made an inquiry about how the sales would assure a backer of a safe return on their money. I was shown an Mono Block Valve Amp' retailing at £45K, that was arriving at the Vendors home with a purchase price and Import costs of approx' £22K.

I was shown a TT bought in at £15K and retailing at £40K, there were also lesser cost items with a similar ascension to a retail value.

I was shown a range of Horn Speakers, with the TOTR Model costing approx' £12K and retailing at £36K 

My assessment was Three Big Ticket Item sales in a Year and was their any need to leave the home to seek an alternative income. 

Was I tempted to make a offer to invest, no way, the relationship would have been doomed, I have no interest in requesting a Customer supplies me with that level of Profit. 

 A very good friend of many years, developed a relationship with a well known UK HiFi Company's Proprietor. This is another Business that is a success as it isa Cottage Type Industry with very little overhead and very healthy Mark Ups to produce the retail price.

It was a short time of this new relationship, before my friend became assimilated into the ideas of Super Profit. I received a contact asking for my revealing the suppliers of a PC Triple C Wire I am a advocate of and suggest as a wire to be tried out in Cables.

I was offered a free PC Triple C Cable for my support, when it was made known the Cable was to be offered for $2K, I informed my friend we need a break from each other, as I am insulted to be expected to be, and am certainly not the individual who is to open the gate to such extortion of fellow audio enthusiasts. 

When I crunched the figures for the Cable intended to be produced, I was not too far off £120 for a Pair with a RCA Phono @ 1 Metre in Length.

Again I say it, cautiousness is ones friend, when being investigative and choosing where to spend.       

Lots of good guidance here. The hardest part may be where to begin, so it’s good that you know the kind of sound you prefer—organic, neutral.  I would describe my own preference the same way. If I were you, I’d start there with speaker lines that are described that way in reviews. Then it becomes a matter of what will work in your room—sonically, practically, and visually.  As many previous posters have described.

You’re giving yourself some time to do this, and that’s really great. Enjoy!

op

listen to @ghdprentice ​​​​@verdantaudio 

ignore @grislybutter 

good luck, have fun, focus on speakers and how they work in your room

@jjss49 ignore what?

do you have reading issues?

there was not one actionable piece of advice from me in this post. I made observations, that were pretty freaking objective.

I am sorry about your unhappiness that you have to take out on other people.

@pindac 

Yes, definitely. Carefully chosen requires footwork, listening skills, reading, exposure to different systems, etc. I think each of us with many decades of experience have chosen slightly different paths to be able to evaluate equipment and systems. So, for me, I have listened to different systems for 50 years, read virtually every copy of The Absolute Sound and Stereophile over that time. Through thousands of hours discovered my own values (modified greatly with the knowledge I gained over that time) and am able to judge sound quality of equipment and the synergy they are likely to bring. 
 

This is a pursuit of passion where the time spent is enjoyable and in the long run incredibly satisfying. The great thing is, at the end of each learning / investment cycle one has a testament to what you have achieved.

Just went through the same exercise over the past few years and ended up with Focal Sopra2's each  paired with with REL S812's using baseline blue high level cable, Esoteric F-05 integrated, Esoteric K03xd, VPI Signature 21 w/ Fatboy arm, Soundsmith Paua MkII, Bob's Devices Sky 20 SUT fronting the F-05 on board phono stage, Bryston BHA-1 headphone amp, Grado PS2000e cans and a mixture of Wireworld, Nordost Shunyata and Kardas cables. Also a Miles fan, jazz/classical. Current MSRP on the above around $83K.

@95dyna It is good to see your timeline 'over the past few years', that is a good advisory. It would be good to hear of, how much foot work you put in, prior to committing to a device to be purchased.

It is also good to see your List of Interface Umbilical's. How the devices are interconnected is a critical consideration. My experiences are set in stone, this area is an evolving and ongoing trial, there is always room to extract a little more that is in line with a end users unique preferences for a sonics presentation. I have heard good things about Wireworld and will be trying out a Cable and loaning it out for further assessment in the not too distant future.

The OP will be well advised if they take up on the suggestion that a parallel experience worthwhile of encountering is to learn how changing the Umbilical Interfaces can effect the overall sonic of the system being built and that a Budget to be solely dedicated to this is best proportioned in as an early in the ventures considerations.

Footwork and Experiences $???? - Devices $?? ??? - Interface Umbilical's (Interconnects + Power) $???'s - ????'s - Supporting Structures $???'s - ????'s 

It is not too difficult to spend into the $100's and even into the $1000's creating Electrical and Mechanical Interfaces.

@ghdprentice The experience is a passion, I come to learn this many years past. I also found I was quite happy to participate in this passion with likeminded individuals, which resulted in myself developing a social side to the hobby. I am today with a numerous amounts of home visits behind me and vice - versa. I have supported many events put on for enthusiasts only (demo's being non commercial) and I am a member of a Local HiFi Group, where I met two of the founders at a forum event 200 miles away from my home, it is this group that is my most enjoyed part of HiFi over recent years, there is humour, food and there have been really good meetings put on with a opportunity to encounter selection of New Devices being made available regularly as Home Demo' Loans from a member, who is a proprietor of a HiFi Company, then there is the New Acquisitions made by Group Members and then the trickle of DIY Builds. The Group has a resident Two Generation Valve Collector, who has inherited collections from within the family, (this individual kindly loans selections of Pairs and Quad Matched Valves for Tube Rolling Experiences), who would not want to be present at a day when this is occurring. Nearly all valves in my devices today are selected as a result of this kind offer, other Group members share the same outcome as my own in relation to chosen Valves.  

@toddcowles lots of envy of your stated budget in the comments as usual, ignore that and spend what you want. The best advice as a few wise souls have mentioned comes from your original post - Harbeth and Pass is what you had and liked, the safest bet is to stick with that combo. Extrapolating from that combo’s sonic profile, if you want vinyl playback get a Linn LP12 TT and Lampizator phonostage, and if you want digital playback get an Aurender server and Lampizator DAC.

A left-field choice for something with fewer boxes would be to get the new Gryphon 333 integrated with DAC and phonostage options and their new EOS speakers. All you’d need is the TT and the Aurender and a loom of Gryphon cables and you’d have a balls-to-the-wall system for about $80K.

I mention this combo because I heard those EOS speakers with my Diablo 300 and its DAC fed by an Aurender with a loom of Gryphon cables, and the sonic fireworks had drool coming out of my mouth. Particularly noteworthy tracks were AC/DC’s "It’s A Long Way to the Top if You Wanna Rock ’n Roll" and Leonard Cohen’s "The Night of Santiago". The combo makes poor recordings listenable and good recordings great.

If you have a good Gryphon dealer in your area you’d be able to demo the whole system as any good Gryphon dealer will also carry either Aurender or Lumin, and most likely Linn or something similar.

Speakers: Acapella Atlas (Horn mid, 3xbass, PlasmaTweeters, used35K);

matched strong Amp: Symphonic Line RG7 MK5 Reference Edition (used12K);

Source server/streamer/network player/24TB music files/digital volume control: Antipodes K50 (used9K);

DAC Tube based, including RC analog volume control / external PSU3: Nagra Tube DAC (used19K);

Silver cables all around (6K used);

Rack and bases (2K used);

Room treatment Basotect (2-3K used)

really well positioned speakers in the room (free);

above is my audio Nirvana.

can be extended by a tube preamp / phono stage and TT at any time if you need.

Good luck🤞

Greetings from Germany 🇩🇪 

Begin with acoustically treating the room and where you want speakers, long wall, short wall. Find the seating - chairs, sofa, loveseat, and determine where you're going to place equipment, then have at least one, maybe two 20A circuits installed. . Buy a pair of Sonos speakers or even Amazon Echo Studios. For less than $500 you'll have something to listen to and minimize any rush to buy anything major until you have all the pieces figured out. Now, start shopping for gear. 

Start with the room.  This defines what speakers you can fit and work with.  How big is it?  How is current damping?  Can you treat it, etc...  Once that is defined I suggest selecting a speaker as your choice will be a function of the room

I'm not going to suggest what to buy as you've had lots of those. Room acoustics has been mentioned and rightly so. I agree with the above, to start with the room but not with what follows.

The room needs to be considered as a separate issue and not according to your choice of speaker. This is akin to telling a musician friend to please bring his violin to play and not his double bass because your room is too small. Huh?  It is paramount that you get your room acoustically tamed before you audition anything because you may select a component based on what it sounds like in an untreated room only to find when you add another component that you are now unhappy with both.

Treating a room can be handed over to the pro's who will endeavour to get the decay time down to a certain time, usually about 300 to 400ms. This will include absorbers, diffusers and bass traps. All this in the interest of achieving a smooth in-room frequency response. Without treatment the long decay of sound will smear and confuse the detail resulting in a congested sound.

Further smoothing can be obtained by using multiple subs. These subs can be considered as tuning devices and make, along with the room treatment, a really huge difference. I can not overstate what this brings to the party!  Needs to be heard, and you certainly have the funds to do it 😎

Now ponder this:  Take a properly treated room with multi-subs, check out 'audiokinesis' for info on his SWARM, and you have all the bass performance you need. Now a number of speaker manufacturers have a model or two below their flagship speaker that cuts cost by using fewer bass drivers, but mids and tops are identical to the megabuck flagship. This path will not only save you money but will, I say again will, outperform the flagship model simply because the subs are smoothing the bass which two fullrange speakers, hampered by their position in the room can not do.

Your speaker choice does not need to be a function of the room. The acoustic treatment will take that out of the equation to the point where you no longer have your room intruding but get to hear the acoustics of the venue. 

I did not intend to recommend any component but in this looong post the speaker brand Volti came to mind.

Toddcowles,

Your budget should give you a phenomenal system, congratulations!

I’d start with speakers, and I’d look at Joseph Audio, Fyne Audio, TAD, Tannoy

With that kind of a budget, I will visit as many dealers as I can and demo as many systems as I can. My 1 cent 😉.

I wasn't satisfied until I went high efficiency plus SETs.

Unfortunately I myself have been in that same situation before. Anyone can speak of a great stereo manufacturer but regardless what anyone recommends including myself LISTEN TO YOUR EARS.  Those are the biggest critic 

Speakers: Revel Salon 2 speakers can be had on the used market for around 10K-11K, which makes them still one of the greatest values on the planet. The Revel Salon 2s can still compete with most any, and I mean any, of the current outrageously and ridiculously priced speakers on the market today. I just can’t speak highly enough about the Revel Salon 2 speakers, they never disappoint and are pure performance loudspeakers for the ages.

Amplification: The Salon 2s need high power amplification to be driven properly. If your room is more moderately sized, you can (as I did), drive them with the extremely powerful and absolutely reference quality sounding Hegel H590 integrated amp, which sells on the used market for around 6.5K, and you’ll be well on your way to a system that will absolutely blow your mind and knock your socks off!!!

Since you liked your previous Harbeth's, if your room is large enough, you can purchase a used Harbeth 40.1 or 40.2 for about half or less than original price. Add  good solid state amps like  Classe monblocks, a good tubed preamp like Audio Research or CJ, a quality turntable/cartridge and you would not even spend 1/2 of your proposed budget

\\\preamp

@toddcowles Can you elaborate more on your previously owned "beloved 2 channel system" i.e price paid , why not just replace with some upgrades ? I know this is the route I would take , with little to no hesitation. Unless you are looking into a multi channel HT system in place of a 2 channel setup.

See what happens then is you can satisfy the itch to get back into the audio pool & more importantly exercise some restraint at not embarking on a spending spree , just because it is possible now to do so.

Did you not gain any wisdom from the experience , rather unpleasant it must be, to have such serious family financial problems at your door & resort to extreme means as a temporary solution. The bigger picture scenario might require some sacrifice here and there to yield better long term financial stability.

Hi Todd.   .       .                                                                        Follow ghdprentice advice.He is 100% right.Just adding my 2 cents.If you hear a less expensive system you like then good luck to you.More money doesn't always buy happiness. Synergy will!However,if the cost is little more,then save some more and build a system your ears had approved.If you are still undecided, then buy the best of Harbeth and Pass.Consider buying used if possible.

Obvious idea is redo what you had !

Alternatively, do what I use here for mastering every style daily. Evolution MM3 +Exact (used $23,000 +Exact), Allnic Audio A-6000 linear tube amps (used $10,000). DA options are Berkley Audio Design Ser III, Bricasti M1 SE or Mytek Manhattan II (new: $12,000, 9000, 4500)

I buy used, depreciated, broken in, when possible !

After having been through a ton of gear (all the Harbeth and REL S series included), I am confident that nothing will outperform Fleetwood Sound DeVilles. For those of us that like a slightly warm presentation, they give you that musicality but don’t sacrifice detail or efficiency like the Harbeths. My DeVilles sound like my Harbeth 40.2 with the towels taken off! Retail is around $16-20k depending on the options you choose. 

For the rest of the system, a lot depends on what you want to focus on. My guess from your post is that you like a warmer sound, so I would pair the Fleetwoods with a Luxman integrated amplifier or some tubes you like. The other no brainer pairing with the Fleetwoods is either of the Technics GaN integrateds - honestly the $2800 ones sounds outstanding with those speakers. It is just one of those pairings that works super well. DAC is part of the amp itself, so all you need is a nice little streamer, a turntable (go with technics 1200G) and a couple cables. You’ll be all in for $30k or less and have a shockingly better system than most people with $80k systems. 

Tod a dac Thst all would like for $7k a great bargain  the T+A 200 dac

speakers  the New Sonus Faber Serafino G2 is $26k  and cannot be overlooked 

sounds as good as they look , integrated amp the New Gryphon 333 just atop of the iceberg .

Enthusiastic audiogoners here will start spinning you around with all sort of dream gears of their own.  This shows how much they care about you but it might not be a good thing because you will be overwhelmed.  Instead, it is suggested that you go to a reputable source like Stereophile and carefully study not only the measurements but also listening test experience.  Then screen out a few candidates and combination under your budget before presenting them to the audiogoners for advices.  This due diligence is a must.  Don't be lazy.

I fail to see why anyone would buy Macintosh. Abject mediocrity.

If your priority is to purchase US domestic products, buy Boulder. They wipe the floor with Mac.

Watching videos from Munich the Mac - Sonus Faber room was easily the worst.

But the Wolf Von Langa Son, with valve integrated amp, was reviewed by many as best in show, and falls squarely within your budget

Here we go again. Another insufferable brand name basher. One reason I don't post very often is this. Then you take it a step further by comparing the gear you have trashed by comparing to another that on average cost 2 or 3 times more. I don't suppose you have considered how many Mac users on this forum you  have insulted. Reminds me of the guy that recently posted that all Esoteric CD players sound like tanks. Such an ignorant ilinformed poster. Is there a monitor on the forum to take such posters aside for the benefit of the rest of us? P.S. I'm not a Mac user.

@jamesdowningelliott   wise counsel

Has anyone mentioned re-sale considerations?

Audio can be/will be a merry go round.

@lanx0003 

+1

Yes. you have to establish a foundation based on relatively neutral reviews… Stereophile, The Absolute Sound, and HiFi+ are the bases of real Research. So, some recommendations here may point to equipment to do further research on. 
 

After reading these publications for over 40 years I can figure out how the component sounds or the reviewer has a strong bias pretty easily. So I would use specific input here as a recommendation for additional research and listening.

Kudos to room treatment, I’ve had GIK produce treatments for prior rooms.  Yeah, not sure what all the financial stuff is about…but I’m good, so is my long-term financial outlook.

It took me about 10 years and $40k-$50k of saving, buying, trading, saving, buying, trading and so on to build it.  I certainly will be focused on previously used gear, as I’ve got 0 desire to absorb depreciation.  Though, there are some pieces that rarely come up for sale, and I’ll be in a position to purchase them if it tickles my fancy…but may not be anyplace convenient to demo.  Just seeing if those combos suss out in this thread.

The room is approximately 35 by 15.  The prior owner had been using it as a wood shop.  It sits off the back of our garage, and I’ll be readdressing with rock wool, Green Glue, and tracking/decoupling system for the ceiling.  I’ll have a direct 20 amp ran, it’s a short run from the breaker…maybe 10 feet.  

Again…thank you all for the responses.  

if i were you i will try buy field coil speaker ,, just search it at diyaudio ,, it seem make nice sound from it  ,,, i believe at last it can beat any speaker made before 1970

@toddcowles Good move on the 20amp line, I was shocked how big of a difference adding that to my system made. Good power is never a bad foundation to build around and costs way less than most any components.

Take your time.  Pick speakers first.  Get what you like.  Look at Sonus Faber, B&W 

Magico, Rockport, Vinberg (some great reviews) 

I recently started the upgrade path and went with Sonus Faber found a fantastic Demo pair.   I have an Anthem P5 and it still sounds great much better than people give it credit. 

Then decide on your source or sources.   I'd recommend to look at a really good 

Integrated especially if theater bypass is something you might want to do in the future.

Im looking at Boulder amp 866 and Gryphon Diablo 300 

Both have very good DAC streamers.   Simaudio Moon also makes great gear. 

Have fun.  

@toddcowles Consider running 3 dedicated 20 amp lines. 2 for mono's/subs on each side and 1 for your sources and other rack gear. With this large of a room, you may even consider doing a couple more around the room if a 2 channel/theatre combo is of any potential interest in the future. Seems overkill now, but just wait..I don't think there is a better ROI on any investment in this hobby than clean, dedicated power.

Reviewing this string it dawned on me, if I was to do over from scratch I would actively find a Shindo system and see if that would inspire my choice of direction. I have never heard one, but always have wanted to. 

Yah room is important  but maybe you can't do anything to the room.  Obviously, you had the Harbeth in the old system, and that worked out fine.  I have been in your shoes twice in the last 4 years.  I did travel around the country to visit areas where there are a lot of dealers and also attend shows.  

The main priority is finding a speaker that you really love and it will probably be different than Harbeth.  You are probably going to be looking at speakers in the $20-35k price range.  All of the other components are a piece of cake after the speakers.  If you find a speaker you really like, see if any are available on the used market.

I once bought amps before a speaker.  What a major mistake.  I ended up having to sell the amps and never played them.  Buy speakers first.  

Is Soul Note making the world’s best sounding gear on the Planet now ? 🤔

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KNtDsGKLwA

 If you can't afford this Soul Note Reference System they just came out with the new Soul Note A3 Integrated amp.. Major-Breakthrough for Integrated amps 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCdfv41PE3Y

Magico, Rockport, Vinberg (some great reviews) 

@bobfun - at AXPONA 2022 last year, I demoed the Magico A5 and the Rockport Atria II to help finalize my final speaker purchase.  The Magico’s had better treble highs but the Rockport sounded more together but less forward.  I heard the Vimberg Minos which sounded fantastic, but it had the diamond tweeter upgrade which added $10k so I assumed it was out of my budget.  After the show, I spoke to my dealer Chris at Artisan Fidelity and told him about these 3 speakers, so a few back and forth raising my budget and lowering the price until a deal was reached. So I’m a proud owner of the Vimberg Mino D. 

@toddcowles 

I’m at the THE Show in Los Angeles and plan to go to the Pacific Audio Fest in a couple of weeks.  I suggest that you attend High-end audio shows to see and hear what YOU like.  I like Magico and YG speakers, but Wilson speakers never resonated with me…yet.   Speakers sound different so it’s best you hear first hand.
 

The largest North American show EXPONA just past, but there are a few other shows.

DarTzeel LHC-208 integrated amp together with Stenheim 03 speakers will give you an organic sound you will be very happy with.

I have to say, I do agree with gavman about Macintosh.

Most 80K systems will be 'hi fi" sounding rather than organic.Think Wilsons,Magico,Focal etc Which means that you will get sick of it and hardly use it .I have friends with Magico speakers who simply stopped listening to them.Or hop on the "upgrade " path which will only lead to more expense and frustration.

You could do a lot worse than vintage Tannoy  Monitor Gold 15s in a nice big Onken box [say $8000]  [or some Harbeths] and a Chinese copy of a Dartzeel NHB108  [about $1000] power amp and a Supratek preamp.[Say $4500] Those just make  lovely music and are organic  but are also high enough resolution.

This thread is absolute madness. From a financial point of view you should not be "saving up" for a system, at least not in the traditional sence, I will expand upon that in a bit. This is a hobby, a complely unnecessary indulgence. You should be able to pay for your entire system without taking on debt or dipping into retirement savings that are intended to maintain your current status of living. If you are past retirement age, and still in a position to spend 50-80k on your hobby without materially impacting your future, then go right ahead. But OP has made a few comments that has me doubting their financial position.

If you want to get an idea of a responsible budget, you can use the 1% rule which allows for spending 1% per year of your total net worth on luxury items. Luxury items can mean anything from travel, goods, services etc. Pretty much anything that you don’t really need to purchase. So to have a budget of 50-80k on Hifi I would expect your total net worth should be in the 5-8m range (potentially lower when you account for resale value). Net worth is total assets - total liabilites. If you are ultimatly responsible for a portion of family debts beyond your immediate household, you should factor those in along with your liabilities.

Given the 1% rule allows provides an annual spending limit you can save up for a system buy buying it over time and keeping within that annual amount. But dont forget to add in other luxury costs like travel, and expenses from other members of your household. I’m assuming HiFi isnt your only indulgence. Now here’s where things get interesting. Unlike travel or service expenses, you can use a modifier for audio gear since there is resale value on these items which is typically 30-50% from new, or much higher when buying used. Example- lets say you buy a used Gryphon Diablo 300 for 10k. You should be able to comfortably sell that for 8k a few years from now making its total cost 2k, maybe a bit higher due to shipping etc but you get the idea. Take 1% of your total net worth, figure out what your other luxury expenditures are, and what’s left over is what you can spend per year on your this system and adjust back up to account for the resale value of the items. If you find yourself short on budget either scale things back and/or look into the used marketplace.

I’m not sure there is a financial rule that best suits everyone. Everyone is different in priorities, values in possessions, risk, and how they manage their life.

As always @ghdprentice the voice of reason. Calm. Polite (regardless of deranged individuals dealing with). To the point. Accurate. I want to be like you when I grow up. And I mean it. Not a snarky comment 

@thyname 

Thank you for your kind words.