Looking on spending up to $3000. on a rack for my system. I’m currently using a older Billy bags tri-point with cracked glass shelves. Would like to get a four post stand so it becomes more stable than the three post Billy Bags. Looking for something that will take it to the next level without taking my pocket book along with it. I’ve looked at Solid Tech and Adonis. Thanks Mike
gFi, when you speak in absolute terms, you limit yourself, unless the subject is death
My speakers are 8+ feet from my front wall. My rack is within 2 ft of said wall. I assure you, any interference is minimal
Being cheap this looks good, just put 4 rubber casters under the legs and Machina Dynamica springs under each component and spend the rest on hardware and software
"Because they will not only hear great imagining and depth, but see it as well, if their shiny wall of equipment and rack is off to the side instead of between the speakers." It's imaging, not imagining George, and not everyone who has a rack in between their speakers is a "glitz queen". Many like myself realize that it makes no difference.
A rack has to support correctly (equipment weight), interact to minimum, have enough ventilation and space between shelves and look nice. To be modular, expandable and configured in various ways is a bonus. I have settled with Bassocontinuo Reference and never looked back.
HAHAHAHAH, and NO, a rack will not improve sound, or add more air, or enveloping sound, guitar floating in the air to your ears, etc etc.
its a rack dude! its a place to put your equipment.
improve the sound, ....put the amp on amp stands with springs/or floaty things, and hear an amazing timbre elevation while the flutes and guitar dance in midair with air around the notes, magically floating the music to your ears, with a 360 degree stadium like sound.
its a rack. choose a good one, which will support your gear, and look nice. but, ...... if you buy the newest aircore suspending dampening thingy, you will hear improved treble, and the bass will rattle your windows like never before.
its a rack, get one you like, and looks nice in your home, with wife approval (if applicable)
I'm beginning to agree with @georgehifi, although not the general tone which is somewhat offensive
I'm quite sure removing the equipment from the middle altogether will yield even better soundstage but I don't have that option.
Yes and probably because I've said it so many times now, I get a bit short with the "glitz queens" that can't see the forest for the trees. Because they will not only hear great imagining and depth, but see it as well, if their shiny wall of equipment and rack is off to the side instead of between the speakers.
I'm beginning to agree with @georgehifi, although not the general tone which is somewhat offensive, that having no equipment between the speakers improves sound quality. Unfortunately, given the layout and other furniture in my room I don't have the luxury to totally remove the equipment from the middle, but I recently got a new rack which sits very low and is much narrower compared to what I had before. I also pulled the speakers further out so there is nothing in between the pair. I can definitely notice the increased soundstage depth. I'm quite sure removing the equipment from the middle altogether will yield even better soundstage but I don't have that option.
BTW, my audio rack is made by Z Audio Custom Racks. They are very reasonably priced and look and feel amazing. Highly recommended!
I might have the best stands. I drew what I wanted and had a welder make them. Made from 3/4" metal tubing... all built for spikes and mass load filling. Two low double shelves for each side... a massive stand alone amp stand for lower middle... and a stand alone above amp shelf. Custom made and powder coated for $1,200. I purchased the Lovan 4 pillar speaker stands but the welds were pathetic. I broke one pillar loose easily by hand... so I went back to my welder and he built my speaker stands.
Jab563 I’m glad to hear that because I already ordered an A/V rack from Symbol Audio. They are made to order and so I should receive it in a few months
Just to answer your question, stabilization of the equipment/speakers through vibration control is very important. I've gone through three setups over 50+ years. For the past 25 years, I have hollow, heavy gauge welded steel racks filled with 50/50 mix of shot/sand with a mix of granite and high density fiberboard shelving and various Stillpoint devices under almost all equipment. You will notice the difference with superior shelving and you won't regret it but don't cheap out as you can keep great shelving for many decades.
I'm a proponent of putting the rack at the side of the room and keeping the space between the speakers open. The best results I've gotten are from using long(ish) balanced cables to monoblock amps which sit directly behind (or just to the side of) the speakers on low supports with short speaker cables.
However, everyone can ameliorate the effects of a rack between the
speakers by positioning the speakers baffle a ways ahead of the rack.
@nonoise,
You nailed it! With this setup you absolutely don't miss the imaging or other effects. At some point I tried to place the equipment on the floor with shelves and footers. But the affect was same as having the rack in the middle, but way in the back. If anything, it diffuses the sound and broadens the sound stage - but only if the rack is at least 3 feet behind the plane of the speaker face.
Does a Audio Rack make a difference ? I does from the dealer who sold it to ya! Its called a nice profit . If you have too put it together , Mozol Toff . In other words good luck . I bought the Billy Boggs shelves , very well made and they come together in one piece . Take the plastic off and your done.
@duckworp Interesting post about the CM CS Footers, I have heard very mixed results about these...some raves, and a lot of disappointments. One thing, they are sure pricey! I wonder if you could elaborate a little as to your post. BTW, the reasoning behind their working tech...relying on the 2nd rule of Thermodynamics, seems to me to be nothing more than 'snake oil'!
Then you don’t have any imaging to look at, that’s why.
is just the most practical place for it
Image placement and depth is not important to you then.
This member below tried it and found out what he was missing, and ceased being a "glitz queen" staring at his equipment from that day on.
Well, I took a little advice trying my rack off to the side. First and foremost to say that it didn’t make huge difference, would be the understatement of this century. I think I solved most of issues regarding everything. The two biggest improvements: spacial depth and much lower noise floor.
hi, i would look for a used, finite element, they are on the used market and really work, master reference, depending on how many levels you need, i would get one, but out of my price range, using audiophile base, very good,
I am using the Solid Tech hybrid and it has worked well. Cost effective. The legs are hollow which allows you to fill them with sand. Excellent vibration control for the price.
I BOUGHT a pair of 4-shelf Michael Green Deluxe Justaracks in black years ago. Like Salamander racks of today, they are infinitely adjustable using simple nuts and bolt design. The shelves are two inches thick, and come with spiked feet. Salamander racks are much less substantial but the practicality is better than anything else out there, except for Mapleshade. They will build you an adjustable rack any way you choose but it will cost you a ton of money. The only other choice is a local carpenter who will do exactly what you want, or a kitchen cabinet contractor who will build you what you want with MDF and covered with MICA (which is tough and comes in a huge choice of colors and "wood" finishes). I had a beautiful amp stand made like that in piano black and it's as sturdy (2 inches thick and heavy) as you could want. The price? $150 delivered.
"It never ceases to amaze me with "glitz queens" at the money they spend just to look at their equipment while listening, and they really stare at it!!"
I don't stare at mine George, that is just the most practical place for it and it does zero harm to the sound. It also keeps cables short.
When viewing the images it is seen that you have very nice aesthetic stands. If you want to Upgrade on the mounting of the Devices investigate how the use of a Sub Plinth and Isolation Footers can work for you. I will suggest the Solid Tech 'Feet of Silence' as I have these and highly rate them. I have loaned them out as well within my HiFi Group and the reports on the usage are very positive as a result of the impression being made.
hiendmmoe OP "I’ll never place my rack between my speakers again!"
Hallelujah!!! Now we just need to convince the other 80% of "glitz queens" who would rather stare in wonderment at their lit up electronics and shiny machined racks, instead of seeing the imaging, depth and sound staging placement of the artists of the music they play.
It never ceases to amaze me with "glitz queens" at the money they spend just to look at their equipment while listening, and they really stare at it!!
It didn't make a huge difference? I think you meant to say it made a huge difference. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8565 If this is your system then I can see how that would be the case. A lot of flat surfaces about the same distance and height as the speakers will tend to mess with your imaging.
Well, I took a little advice and started thinking about trying my rack off to the side. With considerable pressure not to by my girl friend, who also lives with me, I move It when she was gone. First and foremost to say it didn’t make huge difference would be the understatement of this century. I think I solved most of issues regarding everything. The two biggest improvements: spacial depth and much lower noise floor. Moving the rack to its new home help tremendously with lowering acoustic energy the rack was picking up before. Everything sounds so much more open. I’ll never place my rack between my speakers again!
If you're into some DIY and the flexibility it provides, look into 80/20.com. Extruded and machined aluminum elements for the structure and put whatever shelf you like.
Estectics are personal, but it's extremely rigid and can be reconfigured.
I cant speak for every type of speaker in every situation, but I have usually, but not always had my rack between my speakers, and the soundstage and center imaging is perfect. If you're in doubt, you should try it. Remember, the perception of that center image is not happening right there, but at your ears. The radiation pattern of some speakers may be affected by the placement of the rack, but my speakers for instance are horns which have controlled directivity by their nature, and they are not affected at all. As far as some people saying that they can't "see" the image mentally because the rack is in the way, well, I just think that's nonsense. Listen with your ears!
I once found myself in a situation where I needed to replace shelving in a older audio rack. I will admit that some of the new racks are sexy, but I was unwilling to commit to that level of investment.
I kept the frame, and added custom Birch Edge Series Platforms crafted from Audiophile Vibration Control https://audiophilevibrationcontrol.com/ A great product, and they also build racks.
I also replaced the footers with Finite Elemente's Cerbase Classics that I got here on Agon. I added silicone gel Isolators in critical spots between the frame and the Birch Platforms .
The thousands I saved I invested in music and power cables. If you choose to re-engineer your stand, or just need footers in general you should also check out Audio Point footers http://starsoundtechnologies.com/audioPoints.php
"I always wondered why I see all these high end systems and at dealers too with their racks between the speakers and think it’s got to negatively impact the image and soundstage."
I hear you, but for most of us there probably isn't a better solution. The common alternative is to place the equipment rack along a side wall, where it will still introduce uneven reflections, specially if there's no matching furniture on the OTHER side wall. A ventilated closet might work best sonically, but then remotes may not work, and you'll get no visual feedback from your gear via built-in displays and LED lights...
I think I'll keep my rack where it is, between the speakers and set back as far as possible, but I'm open to suggestions for improvement.
Not everyone has the luxury having a space big enough to position gear off to the side. However, everyone can ameliorate the effects of a rack between the speakers by positioning the speakers baffle a ways ahead of the rack.
An even bigger gain can be had by mounting the TV on the wall placing it well behind the speakers. That move gave me the greatest improvement in sound stage presentation.
“It is the single biggest killer of sound staging and depth perspective, it makes a hiend sound into midfi, because there's no artist to place and see with your eyes. If you can't go to the side, maybe the behind you, or as I did in one place that allowed it, the next room.”
This is an interesting take for me. I recently created a thread about getting better detail and resolution from my speakers. Some of the feedback I got was the length of my wire run because my equipment is off to the side on an armoire. I’m trying to rework my furniture to move my speakers over to each side of my armoire but maybe I should rethink that?
Consider a furniture armoire for an audio rack. Mine is a solid piece of furniture that fits the decor of the room and my gear blends into the furniture. Has drawers for storage that come in handy. I add isolation devices as needed and any vibrations that may occur are not audible to me.
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