Dealer behavior issue

What state is dealer in?

really my post wanted to know if other members have had an experience with a dealer that was so inflexible. there’s nothing legal here. we agreed to disagree. that’s all.
in the end i committed to buy it and so i have. i can’t use it now which he was told well in advance of manufacture. It was his prerogative to not accommodate me. 
clearly there’s a beef with me for changing my mind. i won’t name him bc he’s a well thought of dealer, i think, and the problem was caused by me. 
i made a deal and have never done anything to cause harm to a dealer. i understand that they are just businessmen in the end. 
he’d have made way more money taking my deal. go figure

@4425 One question for 4425. Every state that I am aware of has laws in regards to deposits and the way they can be distributed/forefeited
As such, have you looked into your legal rights in regards to this particular transaction?

Interesting, under "ordering" on their website they don't state that , guess it will be worthwhile to give them a call and checkout that option

@gwbeers.................

a $100.00 deposit on a big ticket item shows the purchaser most likely doesn’t have the funds to purchase it yet.  I think a 25% deposit is fair and it should be that way throughout the industry.  

I too too have spent many tens of thousands at Audio Classics and Mike Sastra has never asked me for an advance deposit on some
thing he ordered for me, expensive or not.  He does have my CC on file though. I believe AC is the exception to the rule.  

I wasnt happy with the GE dealer for wanting that kind of deposit, but I trust them and really wanted the speakers.  They also delivered the speakers and carried my Triton One speakers up to my second floor where my secondary system is.  In the end I was happy which is what counts the most. 

I've spent $40-$50k with Audio Classics on McIntosh gear over the past few years. The average piece between $4-10k. If they don't have the item I'm asking for in stock, they order it (with no deposit from me) and when they receive it and they're ready to ship to me, they request payment.

Wow, interesting story. It seems like this should be resolved better. The dealer should accept his out of pocket expenses only. At least that is my opinion. But we can’t always force our opinions on some of the dealers, just avoid them and spread the word for others.

The worst experience I have ever had was with a piece of Sheiitte (spelling error on purpose) equipment. They charged me a 50% restocking fee! However the item was only a few hundred dollars. It stills leaves me with a bad taste though. Needless to say I would never buy there equipment again and I advise others the same.

I hope this works out for you.


ozzy

@gwbeers
Name the dealers that are going to let you make a purchase with $100 up front, name them!

Went to RMAF to listen to digital streamers. Settled on the new Bryston
BDA-3.14 which is their BDA-3 DAC and their BDP-Pi streamer all in one box.  Called Audio Connection in Verona, NJ which is the closest dealer
Bryston to me. I do have a short relationship with them. Ordered the
BDA-3.14 during the phone call.  The deal is when they get notification from Bryston that the piece is being produced I'll get a call and will need to pay them ~half of the $4K price.  The Bryston rep at RMAF spoke very highly of the Audio Connection and vice versa.  This to me is how a deal should go down, particularly because they were willing to talk about the price.

To the OP, sorry for your personal troubles.  I would be on the phone to ARC as many times as took to straighten this out.  All of my dealings with
ARC have been pleasant, efficient and everyone was happy. 
If you are so disgruntled about this situation as to post here looking for
affirmation or solace, then I think you should name the dealer.  

There are two sides to every story. 

@gwbeers.....................

that statement about only giving $100.00 as deposit is wrong.  When I ordered my GE Triton Reference Speakers from my dealer, I had already spent over 15K in his store in the last year purchasing GE Triton Ones and Triton twos plus other equipment.  I ordered my speakers in February of 2017 and the dealer INSISTED I pay half up front which was $4500.00 to order them even though he wouldn’t get charged for them until they shipped.  In my case I didn’t receive the speakers until mid July 2017.  When I spoke to Sandy Gross about this at GE, he stated that it was wrong because the dealer would be notified the week before delivery and he was free to cancel at no cost to him.  Some dealers like mine are just plain greedy.  

Is this an amp that the dealer is making 8-10 grand on?? If so, it's probably no more complicated than that.

@4425 -  If you and your dealer can't reconcile: here's hoping you can move it, without too much pain.

in the end it’s just regrettable. affording the amp was never the problem and i never claimed it. it’s that i have no need for it anymore. my problem.
i think he’s a really nice guy and it’s a head scratcher. I offered $3000 to cancel the deal before the unit was built. This is not accommodating. maybe he’s in a jam. regardless i’m not going to trash him bc i’ve always liked him but that’s been crushed. no more to say as this must be a unique situation. he clearly doesn’t like me and that’s disappointing too.
oh last thing. be looking for a great deal on a brand new ARC amp in the near future. it’s a beauty and will be a very good seller.

Name the dealer, tell him complained about how he handled your transaction in this Audiogon thread , send him the link and let him give his side of the story

I've paid restocking fee when item was custom order from the factory.  

@4425 - My personal take is; with only one side of the story, it’s impossible to make a rational judgement, which is what you’ve asked. Hopefully; everything’s now OK, regarding your wife. That her illness affected your finances, is unfortunate. The dealer may also be considering their own financials, in decision making. Perhaps, they’re unable to cancel the transaction with ARC/McIntosh Group and can’t afford to keep that amp in inventory, etc. I don’t know either of you personally, so- if one of you were a, "creep"; I’d have no way of knowing, or- considering it in making a call. Your feedback is of no consequence, in this instance. I have 50 completed transactions here(the vast majority, as a seller), with 100% positive feedback. That doesn’t mean I can’t screw up something, or make a bad choice tomorrow, without actually being a, "creep." If I missed something relevant, elsewhere in this thread: sorry, for my oversight.

4425 I believe you. What exact item do you now not want? Please list and price maybe someone in this thread (even myself) may help you out.

donvito154 posts10-06-2019 7:22am

There are way too many holes in your story to be believable. There must be something else that you are not including. Why would you be charged anything if the item was never shipped ...

And the fact that the OP hasn't identified the dealer casts further doubt as to what is actually happening here.

for the doubters please check my feedback to see if i’m a creep

also what holes are there? i made a commitment to buy an expensive amp and changed my mind about buying it. this was my fault. all efforts to undo the sale, before the unit was built failed. He didn’t want to lose the profit. I get it. 
Are other dealers this ‘hard’ is all i want to know.

this is not a complicated story and i’m sure not very interesting but i wanted to know if others have had such an experience. I have offerred generously to undo a purchase that i committed to way before the unit was built. i know that i’ll get the unit; there’s nothing dishonest here. i’ve been buying audio gear for over 40 years and trust him enough to wire payment to him. 
its when he said “why would i take it back as i’d rather sell two? “ that bugs me. 
anyway i’ll take the unit(obviously) and resell at less of a loss than the restocking fees i offerred him. i do change my mind at times about which cable to get etc but never on big ticket items till now. if he doesn’t like me he shouldn’t take my orders which have been extensive. we’ve always gotten along well till this. 

@facten - Exactly!

Lot of quick judgments about the dealer with only the ops stated story of the "facts".

There are way too many holes in your story to be believable. There must be something else that you are not including. Why would you be charged anything if the item was never shipped? A full refund without a restocking fee or any other charge would be the norm. The only fee if any should be the shipping from ARC to the dealer and from the dealer back to ARC!

Typically, the dealer is not charged for ANY product until it ships.  If the product hasn’t even left ARC then most likely he hasn’t even been charged yet!  Where did the money go? You should be eligible for a full refund because he’s out nothing.  The next logical solution is that he spent the money on other operating costs so he has enough left to pay the cost of the unit, but not enough to give you a refund.

If you're in the U.S. the rules regarding restocking fees are governed by each state and if there are any fees or "no return" terms, they must be disclosed at time of sale.  It seems like you negotiated or attempted to negotiate a custom restock fee, but you also paid with wire upfront, rather than even a check?  That audio dealer hasn't even remitted the money to the manufacturer/distributor yet....it seems like if he was reputable in the first place, he would only require a deposit so that you're not wasting his time ordering something that is never accepted by the buyer...or if he knew you would just order the thing.  If he gave you a date when it was to be received by him and it's not there as promised, he hasn't fulfilled his end of the transaction.  Also, the manufacturer or distributor probably wouldn't be happy hearing about this person...in fact, in cases when I've done this, the retailer was seething...because they are at risk of losing their relationship.  And by the time they talk to you again after a 'friendly' conversation with their supplier, you'll have a check waiting. .. hopefully.  In any case, always use a credit card, but also don't let a retailer put you over a barrel.  There's no requirement that a refund be given for anything purchased ever..as a return...., but you didn't order a custom lime green aluminum chassis with yellow LEDs.  If you haven't, or never, take delivery, he can't keep your money forever.  You always have the option of self-initiated court action, which is a pain, but the fees are relatively cheap and then there will be a public record of that vendor being a defendant.  You can also always sell the item on your own but why take that basis risk?  You haven't opened it or taken possession.  Given that you've never opened it, unless the manufacturer is on the brink, the most that anyone is actually harmed is shipping costs....restock on an unopened item?  You could also ask for full value as store credit.  Even the worst jerky store would take that most days of the week....they have the money and you have to remember to spend it there.  But, as others are probably having disappointing experiences, if the store goes out of business, your store credit is essentially gone as you'll be way down in the stack of people they repay if anything is left.  It seems like you shouldn't have to surrender something of value (your gently used item) that wasn't in the original transaction just to unwind a purchase that hasn't even been shipped or arrived at the store yet.  That sort of entangling would really make a high-end manufacturer unhappy.  It seems very predatory.

So much not quite right here, at least from my perspective.

$8k for an amp? $50k in trade already? This kind of inflexibility from a well regarded dealer?

I guess it’s safe to conclude, as is someimes said, money doesn’t change character, it reveals it.

If the facts are as you say I can easily understand your disappointment. Perhaps a little bit of naming and shaming might further your cause here?

At the very least it might result in the dealer putting forward his side of this sorry story.

This dealer is a greedy pud. You need to expose him I was a dealer 
for a number of years. Did he give you ar least 15% off  as a good dealer would for example, besides Thst he made a lot of money 
as a restocking fee was more then fair . Expose this person to save others the hassle  and Never recommend this one .it is people like him that are bad for Audiophiles. Buyers are his life’s blood .A little empathy would have been nice .his dirty deed should not go unpunished ,for it showed a total lack of respect for you and your wife ,your offer was most generous. Screw him and the high horse he wrode in on. I sold a lot of gear your gear was upper end he makes around 50% markup . In the long r
lost ,for you will never do business with him again , and expose 
what dealer did this to save others. A true Audiophile wouldnot 
have acted like that like myself I would have worked out something with you on friendly terms knowing you would recommend me to others, and possibly to buy  something in the future . By saying nothing to fellow Audiophiles will allow this 
parasite to keep negatively hurting the good name of Audio .
best to you  and I hope you wife gets well.

@davekayc  Perhaps. But then the dealer didn't have to take the order(s) (make the sale) from the customer in the first place...nobody required him to do that. 

I imagine there are some customers that make selling stereos a little less fun. No matter how much they spend . Not saying the OP is one of these but perhaps the store owner is feeling a little taxed in the helpful and courteous department.  

Just name and shame.  

Many years ago I had a similar scenario with a local dealer. I had bought a lot of gear from this guy..always at full retail. One day I walked into his store and was looking at a couple of records. His sales person asks me if I am going to keep looking at the records or am i going to be buying something; he then tells me if I am not buying something to get out of the store! With that, i ask for the manager/owner...whom i had always bought from. I get the same basic response from this guy...buy or leave! So, guess what, i left and never came back. After a few years, the dealer went into insolvency and closed his doors. For some reason, I get some pleasure out of that.
If I were the OP, I would take the amp, resell it for whatever I could get for it...and make sure that I never dealt with this dealer again...and made sure that all in my sphere did exactly the same thing.

I would take Joe’s advice above, get it done and focus on other important issues.  It really is a shame however since you have promoted this dealer in past threads. My guess is that he is in Sarasota, Florida.

Personally I would take the unit and resell as a new in box and never do business with that dealer again. 
There are always three sides to every story - yours, mine and the truth which is a combination of your
and mine. That being said the fact that you have spent $50k with this dealer and asked him to help you with a difficult situation and he was not very willing tells me he either has more business than he can deal with and doesn’t mind losing you as a customer or he is not a very good businessman and lacks an understanding of what customer service really means. I would hate to lose your business and would not wanting you using the internet to tell everyone how much I failed to satisfy a reasonable request. That is devastating to any business let alone and industry that is so small. I would definitely dump him and find a better dealer.

@4425...……………………...

I have dealt with dealers all over the USA and my worst experience has been with a dealer close to me that is located in the New England area. I had been buying from this dealer since the late 70’s and spent over 20K during that time. I also brought a good friend to the dealer and introduced him to the owner and over the years, my friend has spent well over 50K in that store. Back in 2010 time frame, I bought a SACD player from the dealer and needed a cable for it. Needless to say I paid triple retail for the cable due to them shortening the length for me. This wasn’t an 8K catastrophe like your deal is, but it hurt just the same.  32 years of customer loyalty lost over  3-4 hundred dollars. The owner who I knew well never responded to my email or calls. Your dealer should be ashamed as should mine. I no longer do business with that dealer and once drove 600 miles round trip to the next closest dealer for something I was buying, just to not give that dealer any more money.

He's already made his position clear, I can't imagine having any further business dealings with him of any kind. I'd complete the deal and walk away without looking back. You'd be better off selling the piece on consignment at a closer shop than becoming involved in yet one more deal with him.A lot of people are great to deal with when the money is going in their direction, and not so good if it's anything other than that.
Best of luck with all of it, particularly your wife's health concerns.

I am confused.  Why don't you just buy the unit and then sell it as a new unit in an box that has not been opened?   You an discount the unit $2K or more?  The dealer has made money on your prior purchases has nothing to do with this transaction.  He put out the 60% to get the unit.  Are you saying that he has another of the exact same unit that he is selling?  Sorry but I am not following the process you laid out.

I am not sure if ARC has units laying around ready to be shipped or if they build them to order.  He could be a nice guy and work with you but you also could just take delivery of the amp and resell the unit on your own.  Are you just saying that the dealer should be nicer to you because you are a repeat customer and that is your main issue?

Sorry about the health situation also.


 

Strange the dealer is balking at a restock fee. A Large chunk of small businesses have major cash flow problems. As a good customer, the dealer should at least try to assist with a solution. One thing is find out the county the dealer is in and eearch online for court documents. The dealer may be in a giant pickle, divorce, tax issues... you name it. You may find some back story that is leading to the dealers behavior ( maybe not). 

he’s made a lot of money on me yes. has been a really good dealer till now. he’s going to make 4 k on the sale but he’s lost me. i’ll see what he says tonight and go from there.

My opinion is that the dealer has made some good money from you over the years. I’m surprised that he wants to poison that relationship. So, would you do business with him again given his current position? If not, reveal the dealer and let him suffer the consequences. Thing is, it’s not a lot of money, for him at least, I would hope. Why hurt your customer relationship not to mention your national relationship?

not sure. not overtly for sure

Does the dealer regularly participate here on Audiogon?

stereo5. the dealer made the point that taking my unit back with or without restock fee would cost him the sale of another unit. that’s why i tried to discuss restock fees to soften the blow. he said why would i do that. i agree IF he feels that there are no circumstances in which he doesn’t have to extract max absolute dollars.
he’s absolutely opposed to me basically consigning it to him and getting repaid after he sells it. 
btw if i revealed the dealer you would be in disbelief as to whom i’m talking about. doesn’t matter

paid by wire as i’m not worried about getting the unit in the future.,my distress is to be dissed over transaction. i think i’ll come out better reselling it but would give up the restock fee in order to not have to deal with it.,my hands are full elsewhere. 

It seems to me the dealer took your deposit and ordered the equipment.  He probably had to pay in advance.  Now for whatever reason, you do not want to finish with the deal and he does not have the cash flow to refund your money.  That's too bad and I would be upset.  Would the dealer be willing to sell the new item and pass the money back to you?

I would definitely call ARC and talk to someone in charge and relate the story.  Perhaps he can act as a middle man and help you out?