Do some DACs "handle" sibilance better than others?

Absolutely. Actually about any source or intermediate component cane create and or attenuate sibilance. Components that emphasize detsail over natural balanced presentation are prone to create or enhave siblince. Hot speakers as well, particularly those with Beryllium tweeters.

I find cheaper single-bit/delta-sigma DACs can have some sizzle up top and grainy/overdone sibilancs and less so with R2R DACs, but this is just a generalization and I’m sure there are exceptions. 

@ghdprentice , @soix :

Thanks, guys, for your comments. 

Yes. But you have to understand that if sibilance is on the recording a transparent system will reproduce it. Difference is how sibilance is rendered which can be influenced not only by a DAC but also by cables, speakers (especially with metal, diamond or beryllium tweeters) and room acoustics. DAC is not always the culprit. 

@audphile1 

Thanks, Z

I meant: "all other things being equal", can one DAC present more apparent sibilance than another?

;o)

I haven’t heard sibilance be an issue with DACs in practice but I suppose anything is possible and certainly different DACs can sound quite different. 

Yes it can, and some DACs like the Chord Hugo TT II  has 4 filter setting that can let you dial it back some. But if your DAC doesn’t have filter settings, you may be able to make the adjustment with different digital cables. You might try the Cable Company and see what they have in their lending library and they will guide you as to which cable to try.

DACs can certainly sound different, and some add less crud and sizzle to the treble.  

Marketing gets into every nook and cranny. I think people need all kinds of ways to review and promote DAC’s. 

My understanding is that a DAC might subtly influence the perception of sibilance, but it’s primarily an issue rooted in the recording itself, speakers, and room acoustics. A well-designed DAC should be transparent. Excessive sibilance is likely coming from recordings, speaker characteristics, and room acoustics.

If you have a significant problem with sibilance and you're trying to fix it with DACs, you will never fix the problem.

This is the voice of reason and logic! Thanks, hilde45.

Marketing gets into every nook and cranny. I think people need all kinds of ways to review and promote DAC’s. 

My understanding is that a DAC might subtly influence the perception of sibilance, but it’s primarily an issue rooted in the recording itself, speakers, and room acoustics. A well-designed DAC should be transparent. Excessive sibilance is likely coming from recordings, speaker characteristics, and room acoustics.

If you have a significant problem with sibilance and you're trying to fix it with DACs, you will never fix the problem.

Personal opinion is I can only "hear" this happening in systems which have been uber designed for "detail."  Usually these systems are either bright or have a very uneven response which accentuates certain frequencies and nulls others. 

Thanks for all the comments. 

 

@hilde45 

I’m DAC shopping and because I’m wary of bringing in any component that might increase the potential for sibilance, Hans B’s comment caught my attention. As I said, I’d never heard a reviewer say such a thing. I don’t tend to regard his reviews as "marketing’" but am willing to accept that you may know something about him that I don’t. 

@erik_squires 

Detail has never been a top priority for me. 

@theo 

OK. Good to know. I wasn’t aware filter settings could have such an effect. 

 

I meant: "all other things being equal", can one DAC present more apparent sibilance than another?
 

@stuartk I think with DACs, especially when we’re talking $5,000 and up category, it would be extremely unlikely to have a DAC render sibilance to the levels where it would become an issue. Yes some DACs would emphasize that particular frequency range more than others but I’m fairly certain about accuracy of reproduction. It wouldn’t be an issue unless other elements contribute to it. 
Most likely room, speakers and cables will be the problem areas. So yeah it is possible but unlikely. 

I have a modest digital chain; tube DAC has some nice NOS Mullard’s 

I’ve added some room treatments and playing around with speaker positioning.

One track I like to use for testing is Rachelle Farrell “I Can Explain” - her dynamic range is crazy, piano, bass, drums are powerful. 

Moving the speakers back by about 1 foot smoothed out her vocal a lot.

http://forum.audiogon.com/posts/2823757

This begs the question, do any of you have a favorite test track that shows sibilance?

A couple of months ago I bought and subsequently sold a well reviewed preamp that I could not listen to because of the additional silence that I heard that was not there with any of three other preamps or bypassing the preamp.

Sting, Paul Simon, Rod Stewart were some of the voices. Interesting it was mostly male vocalists. 

OP, My main observation is just that sibilance is likely influenced by much greater factors than a DAC.

It’s understandable why Hans B.’s comment caught your attention, as most reviewers don’t typically link DACs directly to sibilance. My point is not that Hans B. is a shill. My point is that when reviewers make definitive statements about how a component will sound in your system, they effectively become marketers. Why? Because they simply cannot know your room acoustics, your speakers, your cables, or your personal hearing sensitivities. These are all much larger factors that contribute significantly to how sibilance (or any frequency anomaly) manifests in your listening environment. 

Reviewers like Hans are in their own controlled (or uncontrolled) spaces with their specific equipment. They can’t predict how a DAC will interact with your unique setup. Ultimately, addressing sibilance often requires looking at the bigger picture of your audio chain and listening space rather than isolating one component like a DAC — even if your desire is not to make it worse. It’s just much more likely that the DAC is not relevant. My two cents.

Plus 1 @soix 

@stuartk 

Some chipsets produce a brighter sound and my ears can’t handle it anymore.  I’ve also found that I have issues with most “Over Sampling” filters. That’s why I’ve stuck with the Pontus ll. If/when I upgrade my DAC, it will most likely be with another ladder DAC.

I’m interested in following your journey.

Jim

So my goto sibilance test is the terrific Cowboy Junkies Trinity Sessions CD.  I know this is considered an audiophile recording, mine is the regular CD,  but despite meticulous technique and "special" mics, sometimes and throughout the album Margo's just too close miked and with enough ssses and ttts it overdrives the mic to "hard sss";  not enough to spoil the performance but noticeable on this chain:  OPPO95, I2s, Pontus II (12th gen FPGA software), Holo Bliss KTE, OG Susvara HPs.   Much more noticeable thru my Vandersteen HT system. 

I don’t believe in sibilance vs non-sibilance DACs, but rather some DACs can tame some sibilance caused by the audio chain+recording

Your DAC is likely to have the least effect on sibilance of any component in your system unless it’s badly engineered. You’re more likely to hear a lot more difference between different speakers and different preamps than between different DACs, so long as the DAC is well-designed and doesn’t introduce a lot of jitter.
 

But in general, R2R DACs are considered to be somewhat darker and more euphonic than Delta Sigma DACs. This is only a generalization and some Delta Sigma DACs won’t sound hyper-detailed, revealing sibilance in the recording. 

Sibilance used to drive me nuts.  The last thing that I figured was the problem was my preamp.  But, that's what it was.  My system is more revealing than it's ever been and sibilance is not an issue.  

@stuartk 

If some DACS handle sibilance better than others it means that those particular DACs are surely enough altering the original sound.
 

If sibilance is there and a certain DAC reduces it, then that DAC would alter the original sound of all the music. I would conclude in this respect that it must be inaccurate, and in doing so is “colouring” the sound, so to speak.
I thought that term was only ever applied as a criticism of analogue turntables and tape players.

Maybe DACs are as coloured as analogue?

l know to my ears digital is more “analytical” than “coloured”, but which is perceived as best is a question of personal taste.

OP, the answer is yes. After years of painfully bright digital music from CDs on various delta/sigma DACs, I found NOS & R2R DACs, and everything changed. Some of them manage to be bright, but way fewer than any random assortment of d/s DACs would be.

Listening to one of them now (MHDT Labs Orchid with the best NOS buffer tube I could find). Not bright, not sibilant. In the system 8 feet away is another great sounding NOS DAC, the Metrum Onyx. They don't sound the same, but neither one is bright or sibilant except to a very minor extent on the worst, edgiest music cuts out there (cuts that would razor my ears off on pretty much any d/s DAC).

@hilde45 

Everything you say makes sense. 

I guess I was thinking," if there’s a chance a particular DAC is more prone to sibilance, I’d just as soon avoid it", but in thinking that way, I was forgetting that sibilance is not typically caused by the DAC. Thanks for the reminder.

@curiousjim 

Yeah; I’ve always tried to steer clear of bright sound but perhaps due to changing hearing (I have a test coming up) I’m not sure an r2r DAC is what I want. I plan to demo LTA Aero soon. It may sound bright or just right. Won’t know till I hear it. teh onboard DAC in my Hegel H390 is sounding pretty dull to me.  

@kennyc 

No doubt that is what Hans was referring to. 

@sls883 

It definitely can drive one nuts. 

@mylogic 

I can’t argue with your logic but I also don’t have a fundamental issue with sound being colored. it depends upon how and to what degree. 

@mcondon 

Yes; it’s getting harder to make broad generalizations. 

@desktopguy 

I plan to try a tube DAC soon. 

 

There is an analog section to every DAC. So certainly some of those sections could result in some high (relative to hearing) frequency exaggeration, etc. However I have often found sibilance to be the result of a component mismatch - i.e. input impedance or an overly attenuated input signal.