Ever feel like a "low dollar" customer that your dealer doesn't think worth their time?
@jerbeast said: I've been lucky enough through patience and being a thrifty shopper (ok, cheap m*f*), to put together a decent system, and try to improve it as I can. I think that makes you a true audiophile — because you love sound/music enough to struggle to achieve it. Anyone can throw money at gear and anyone can sell to such people. The "love" root of audiophile is completely missing from those transactions. @brownsfan said: "borderline rude treatment in my experience seems to hinge more on being recognized as audiophile cogniscenti than looking like a fountain of cash."That's exactly right. I have provided plenty of evidence that I am learning the terms of the audio arena and learning to listen; I'm not throwing around terms like a neophyte, but rather trying to make discriminations that will matter. That has probably soured these folks on me. And agree — the AG forum — especially several key members — has taught me a lot. More important, they have put up with my questions and my need for clarification. The Harley book was one of the best suggestions anyone made, and I bought and read most of it as soon as I could. But this does not endear me to the audio store. @stereo5 I wonder if you ever bumped into my cousin Hillary who lived in Northampton and was an audiophile. Would have been back in the 1980's. He had big Maggies and a sweet Denon turntable. If so, please P.M. me. @gator899 That's a great story. It seems obvious that someone merely entering the store — no matter what their ability to spend — has already indicated 1000 times more interest than everyone else. Why that is not seen as a starting point is beyond me. |
@rushfan71 I also called a speaker manufacturer once with questions about some of his products. He also sounded as if he didn’t want to be bothered and answering my questions was the LAST thing on Earth he wanted to do. AND he has speakers that look like they have many tweeters... So interesting indeed. |
Herbie Hancock went to the Ford dealership just to see a car his friend told him of. The car was the new 289 Cobra. The salesman seeing a young black man wearing a t-shirt and jeans, said "that car is too expensive for you" or similar. Little did he know Herbie had been in the studio recording with Miles!! Also, he made recently made some good bucks from Watermellon Man. So... Herbie came back the next day with cash just to show the guy up!! He now hold's the record for the longest original owner of an original Cobra!! True story. |
@stereo5 I know that place in Framingham, MA all too well. About 2 maybe 3 yrs back went there to buy, yes to but a pr of Vivid Giya speakers they had as demos walked in and asked to see and have a quick listen. Guy points me to main back room and never followed up. The speakers were stacked way in the back, salesman never came back and after 20 plus minutes I walked out. No one really cared there. Never gone back don't know how they have survived. |
The main reason that Echo Audio in Portland is my favorite audio dealer is that they are always very responsive to all the questions I have, whether it's about a $25 dollar headshell, or something costing thousands. I've been talked out of making purchases, and I've been treated the same as other customers that were clearly "high rollers". No question has ever been "dumb" (even when they were). More than once, Kurt has invited me to just sit and listen with him to some of the high end systems they've put together, knowing that they were out of my price range. If he was trying to make a sale, I couldn't tell. It seemed more like he was one of us, showing off his latest system. He loves listening and freely shares his experience and enthusiasm and is never high pressure or snobby. |
Here's a 'non-audio' example for y'all, but it's an example of 'potential client approach'....at least, mine. It's been a 'working Sunday'...one employ had short hours, the other can't work Wed. & Thurs. (new child, long story)....so we're 'blowin' 'n goin'.... I'm in a T-shirt, shorts, and sandals. Young guy walks up, baby in sling on chest. "Is this the playground company?" Yes, can I help you? "Do they have a catalog?" No, we don't since most of our business is from our website or email. But I'd be more than happy to help you. "Do you work here?" I'm co-owner with my spouse. (Who just happened to be walking behind us, 'airing out' our dog after a well-needed bath....) Hey, he lit right up. Interested in a 'natural playset' (our specialty)....his spouse and the 3 other children came over in a few minutes, having met the dog and spouse...). "If you visit our website, I'm positive you'll see what we've done and find something you'll know the kids will love. We're not inexpensive, but you will get exactly what you want." Now, I'm not what I consider a salesman. But....like audio equipment, our 'product' sells itself. Or it doesn't. If you want something from Sams' or Home Depot, you'll go there. But I refuse to treat anyone like I've been subject to in 'hi end' B&M stores.... Spouse and I walked into a 4 star hotel in S.F. covered in plaster dust after demo'ing walls in our house. We were in a room within 10 minutes. Now....that's Service. |
@big_greg I had a thread once asking about good shops to buy used and someone mentioned Echo Audio. I immediately bookmarked them and surf them all the time. Some of the deals they have there are *unreal* and correspondence has been great. Everyone should bookmark their used page. @asvjerry "We're not inexpensive, but you will get exactly what you want." That is the perfect, perfect sales line -- because it's honest and speaks both about your company's integrity and desire to connect with the customer. And it's short. And I bet if someone can't afford something of yours, you offer them suggestions even if it might not mean a sale right now. |
@schubert , yup. And not all survived. The ones that have been lucky and smart enough to get the right balance of stock and service. Likely these are the ones that y'all mention on forums like this.... We travel around the S/E, since we design/build/install. If I'm in a city where there's a B&M store ("Hey, Google!"), I'll drop in... Usually in our company T-shirt, driving the company 4wd diesel dually. Typically, I'll just nose about, checking out the wares. I'll look for that which is mentioned on these pages. It's what happens while I do that....is what I'm paying attention to. If I get followed around like it's expected I'll paw at the stock or act suspicious....or get the 'down the nose' 'tude....I'm gone. If I get engaged in conversation, there's a +. If I get offered a demo, there's +*X. The latter is Rare. I carry a demo CD in our 'lectronics kit, with the 'puter, printer, cables (we 'take over' the 'in room' flat screen, since we're generally 'in town' for a minimun of 2 weeks on an installation).... That cd has been out twice. On one revisit, 'we don't demo'. Different salesperson.... The other obviously didn't like my 'taste'. This is why I buy online. |
hilde45....Precisely. *S* I've some recognition that we deal in dreams.... "THIS is the playground I wanted as a child!" "Our kids love it! And the neighborhood ones' do too!" We received an email yesterday from a former client for which we did the most expensive residential playset we'd done up to that time. "We're planning to build a house. My wife said that either we're going to have to move That playset to the New house...or have another one made for it...." (We've moved playsets....it's worse than a 4th floor concrete sofa....) *blink* I'll call that Success.....on enough levels...*S* For those who can't afford us, we're happy to advise. For those who want to DIY, we provide access to that which they can't normally get, or could only get through a contractor.... Better parts. Where to get the parts for a zip line that's of a better standard than a cheap plastic one...and the proper harnesses and gear to make it safe....and advising of the inherent risk of a zip line that's DIY. "Don't cut corners or take 'shortcuts'...unless you've Spectacular Insurance." We build to commercial standards...on everything. I like it....or it doesn't get done. I refuse to risk your kids for a buck. Can't deal with that? Go away. |
Today's email included this: https://www.parts-express.com/tectonic_intro_to_bmr?utm_source=bm23&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Learn+More&utm_content=Tectonic+-+Revolutionary+BMR+Drivers+ON+SALE!&utm_campaign=200614_Tectonic+BMR&_bta_tid=130977682521392152575322640022414824641275317498159592086943907300185205978391113999002050383311511396 I've been fascinated by DML's, much like class D amps.....mostly because of the potentials both exhibit... The BML driver, an interesting 'hybrid', could make for a great line source speaker pair...If the trace depicted holds water... ...so to speak.....sans immersion, of course....;) |
@hilde45 @big_greg I had a thread once asking about good shops to buy used and someone mentioned Echo Audio. I immediately bookmarked them and surf them all the time. Some of the deals they have there are *unreal* and correspondence has been great. Everyone should bookmark their used page.I'm always torn between giving them a shout out and just keeping my mouth shut for selfish reasons. All too often I see a great deal and it's already been snapped up, but the less selfish part of me wants to see them continue to enjoy great success, so whenever anybody asks, I always mention them. In general, people are more likely to mention bad experiences than positive ones. |
If you deal with an owner versus a salesperson, you will have a better experience, just like any other retail encounter. Audio retail is a declining business, so you see stores morphing into "whole house automation" with security monitoring, multi room speaker installs, in home theaters (with chairs) and even automated blinds! Think Best Buy Magnolia....who has "designers". I long for the good old days when there were 5 times as many (or more) independent audio stores in the area or small chains that all sold different equipment. The iPod, iPhone, internet are all hurting it, and the ones who know how it adapt will make it, and they need to treat their customers right to do so. |
I think we've moved on and into the era of the 'boutique' dealers... To survive, they offer a 'complete package' vs. the individual item(s) of interest to that diminishing group of shoppers. Yes, we've become dinosaurs....the digital comet struck, and the shock wave is wiping out the substanance of our desires. We can either adapt (and quickly), or bleach our bones as the 'famliar' becomes scarcer. We, as well as our equipment....have become...'vintage'. *G* |
I drove my truck to a high end audio shop in a rather upscale neighborhood 27 years ago, dressed down in blue jeans and a flannel shirt. I was initially going to show up with my wife , who is quite attractive, in her car; a car was more "respectible" than a truck in 1993. I just wanted to see if it would make a difference in how I was treated. In a word I was ignored. It was around December 10, so the store had more traffic than usual. After almost 45 minutes, despite 3 salespeople in the store, I was not even spoken to. Finally I walked out, and wound up at another shop a couple of miles away, a direct competitor roughly the same size, where I was greeted at the door,despite a similar Christmas rush. I called my wife and had her meet me. We spent two grand that day on our first "audiophile"2 channel system, and another thousand on a subwoofer and power conditioner within the next few months. Over the next 10 years I sent several of my wealthy clentele to that store, and helped my close friend , a neurologist, and our female real estate agent purchase home theatre systems. Just those two spent around 15,000.My total referrals were easily in the 6 figures. I went over to the store that looked past me and inquired about some speaker wire. It was about 2 years after being ignored and watching other people who walked in after me being served. I spoke to the owner about what happened. He asked me who ignored me. I responded "you for one". I then told him who profited from his condescension, and how many referrals he lost. He apologized, and said the Christmas rush was to blame. I told him it didn't seem to affect his competition. I bought the speaker wires, Audioquest type 4, which I still use to this day, and on another visit a moderately priced set of Grado headphones. When I opened my own business some years later, I remembered my above experience, and applied its lessons. My clients are all by referral. Other than an inexpensive and rather neglected website, which I had done just to say I have one, I have never had to spend a dime on advertising. And incidentally, one of my longest and most lucrative referral lines, now over 15 years old, started with a single mom on a limited budget. |
Oh man this brings back old memories. Long time ago I live in Scottsdale AZ and was going to school as ASU. Started to get into audio, so went to one of the local shops in Phoenix. I think I could have stood there with a bag of money and not gotten any help. I was so pissed. Went off in a huff and dropped by another shop. They knew I didn't have a bag of money, but spent hours letting me listen to different systems. They showed me what a great system could really sound like. I've had the same basic experience when living and shopping in The UK and Netherlands. So shops just don't get service. Now I'm in Dallas Texas. Huge shout out to Audio Concepts - they are great!! |
@ebm said: If a dealers treats you badly MOVE ON!!Yes, this makes sense. Maybe this is easy for you, but it’s not that simple for many people. In an age of declining B&M stores, really helps to audition things, and there are not many places to do that. In a single store, one might be able handle quality components or speakers from half a dozen makers. I know we can get things on trial, etc. through the mail but that is very time consuming and the shipping costs will mount up. So, it’s hard to totally break with a local shop -- unless there are many nearby. |
It's the summer of 1978 and I'm working the sales floor at Shrader Sound in the Georgetown section of Washington, DC and all the other salesmen on the floor were avoiding a seemingly homeless man, with several days growth of beard, smelly, wrinkled and "fragrant" clothes, so I approached him and found that he was a neurosurgeon at a local hospital, had been working for several days without a break, hence his appearance. Long-story-short, I sold him a system that day, over $38k (in 1978 prices). I'm no "fashionista" by any means, and have been treated badly at some audio shops...I just take my money elsewhere. |
My experiences mimic'd many of the ones presented here. My philosophy is that I refuse to pay for bad service. Anywhere. I've nurtured relationships with certain dealers to the point where they (two) actually let me go to the extremely high end rooms with no escorts and listen to whatever I want. That is because they learned that although I may not purchase (read: will not) their extremely high end stuff, If I like something within my price range, I will buy it. Sooner or later. In the past when I walked into a store, I didn't expect or desire anyone to come over (sharks on commission) to try to sell me something. I just wanted to look around. However, when I had a question or desired to hear something, if I was ignored, i walked out (but not before I told them how I was treated). If you don't voice your concerns (better in writing), they will not know. I was in Stockholm a few years back with my ladyfriend. When I visit places (I've been there nine times), I try to find high end stores to visit. We walked into the store (high end). The salesperson on the floor looked us up and down and made a determination that we (read I) wasn't worth his time. This was completely based on race. However, I went into one of their many listening rooms and heard a particular singer on the system. The salesperson followed us into the room. not because he may have had a potential sale, but because of the other thing. I acted as if it wasn't an issue and directly asked him who that singer was we were listening to. It actually struck him that I addressed him at all. He answered, then quite snobbishly asked my what my system consisted of. When I told him, all of a sudden, I was his newest best friend. I deal with the issues you all presented on a daily basis. Not because of dress, car driven, or imagined financial status, but because of race. So, I've learned to take the time to figure out if the person is an ignorant ass or if they require a little patience. Stereo Design in San Diego California was a perfect example. I'm sad that Steve retired some years ago and his son didn't want to take over the business and had to close the doors. I would walk in the door and have discussions with some seriously rich people there about equipment, cars, etc. They knew me and I could and often did listen to the very top of the line stuff. Steve would let me take equipment home for in-home listening (all the way to Los Angeles) for a week or two. He knew that if I liked it (most times I did) I would buy it. Now a days in Southern California, the scenario from Pretty Woman really doesn't happen much anymore. People don't know who you are, how much you have, etc. So, they can't afford to assume you are a nobody. I've learned years (decades) ago to not make assumptions about people. They may have had a bad morning, divorce, etc. I don't assume race is an issue at first. If it is, it presents itself pretty quickly without my help. But if a person is rude, well, I don't let that first act of rudeness (ignore me, treat me like a hobo that walked into their facility, or worse, race) stop me from doing what I came into the facility to do. I've found that even the very worst, come around when I don't respond to their ignorance or vile nature and talk to them as if it isn't happening. Some of us deal with this on a daily basis, we have had to adapt and learn to try to get through the icy rude nature of some people. If the store isn't an appointment only type of store, I am going in and do what I came to do. The more I inquire and speak with the ignorant salesperson, the more I can see that ice melting. Welcome to my world. enjoy |
minorl, I'll pass on the invite...but admire your approach... It's beyond reproach that you need to apply it daily at all, especially in CA. (CA native, grew up next to Compton....'nuff said....) Hopefully, The Lesson will stick better this time around, but hoping some will finally be 'woke' is still a dream unrealized...but I'm still one happy to be surprised... Have a better world and day tomorrow...;) Cheers, J. |
I WAS often a low dollar customer that was not worth the dealer's time. But for the most part I was treated well just because of my enthusiasm for hifi. One shop would encourage me to bring my CDs and listen at length to megabuck systems in the afternoons when their potentially paying clients weren't around. And when they were around, I was politely asked to yield the good seat, but never told to leave. |
Mike at Audio Classics has been great to me. Bought a MC 275 and a MC 123 for excellent prices. After I had inquired about the 8k 123 and decided to hold off. He called a week later. Customer had bought it and returned 3 days later upping to new 160. He offered to at nearly 2k off. 15 seconds later I owned it. He almost certainly could have sold it more locally but called me. Class act upon Birmhamton |
This isn’t true at every store. When I worked in the business everyone mattered. Yes it is not as fun to sell HT or multi room audio but the high school kid or college kid getting their 1st pair of Atoms and a Yamaha receiver was just as fun for me as the guy who just spent 60k. And I know it was the people that bought the lower priced gear that allowed us to stock the better stuff. If the dealer has the passion and wants to make everyone feel welcomed the pieces on the floor will cater to every budget. |
Hilde- I travel the world, wine, shotguns, cars, audio, guitars.. boats... it is all the same. spend your $ only at places of mutual respect. Never judge a book by its cover, but also don’t put up w abusive a holes. You have been pointed to two very excellent dealers about as far apart as you can get in the conus: Johnny R in NJ and Bob and Victor at Advanced ( by the way the owner is Definitive now... funny how it’s the people, or in this case perhaps Definitive in Seattle suffer no egotistical fools ? )... check them both out !!! Many other great dealers out there 2 and to the dude rebuilding the MC275 and the Delphi - good on ya, those are legendary building block esoteric components that can mix it up way way above the weight class !!!! finally, of course Andy at Vintage tube is awesome |
Minorl... So after hearing several people here complain about rude dismissive sales people because as many pointed out they think we can’t afford the gear in the store (see the guy in the suit when they found out it wasn’t his Ferrari) you are telling us, you were dismissed by sales people not because they didn’t think you had the money to buy the gear in their store but because of your race? God help us. I really hope this is not where this forum is going. I really like the discussions here and hope the conversation stays on Audio. After all for any business to survive the only color they need to focus on is GREEN. |
@tomic601 Appreciate your points. There's no way I put up with abuse; what I've experienced is erratic and disinterested conduct which shows they don't care about my patronage. You and others have pointed me toward other really good dealers -- and I have noted them and will consult them if I need to. If I was far away from these dealers, I'd not give a second thought in forgetting them forever. There are two things which motivated me to discuss the issue -- the desire to support *local* businesses and the desire to *audition* gear before paying shipping, etc. Otherwise, there would be nothing here to discuss! |
yeah thats a great story. Unfortunately rare. The story with the Ferrari and similar happens all the time. I was once shopping for Shindo gear and got a nice 4 hour listening session which I appreciate until this day. But even that was closed a bit as the guy in the store kept asking "well how much do you think you will spend on audio in the next few months"? Sounds like a used car salesman- the annoying kind. I eventually bought some gear (not Shindo) from him, but the service was OK not great (some demo headphones - still waiting of rtes factory box to be sent to me after years...) |
I go back to the days of the old Audio Lab in Harvard Square when a salesperson was as likely to share a puff or two and sell you whatever he had or whatever you liked. The existing Audio Lab, now in a different location is very hit or miss but generally a worthless pursuit. I used them for yearly service on my old Mac gear for years until I just didn't have faith in their work anymore. If others here are referring to Natural Sound as that Framingham, Ma. store, I regrettably second their experiences. When looking to upgrade my Mac gear a few years back I paid a visit or three and found them to be aloof and mostly uninterested. Even worse at Goodwins High End in Watertown for non Mac gear. So much for even trying to support the brick & mortar places near me. Eventually I too found Audio Classics in Vestal, NY and never looked back. Bought a mess of Mac gear from them at fair prices, peerless shipping and continuing advise and tech support. |
As a successful commissioned salesperson for a couple of decades, I can tell you this: I went to work to make money, not friends. Of course, I made some friends from the hobby that became my source of income, but when a customer was looking at a Ducati or Harley with a near-thousand dollar commission,and one was looking at a BMW that sold for cost to just get these people out of our way, and get their service business, which one did I talk to? Better still, when we sold SeaDoos at cost and paid $25 per unit, I, who owned a very successful race team, would say, "Let me get you a watercraft salesperson". When Sound Advice started doing in home A/V systems with thousand dollar plus commissions, it was impossible to get help on anything else. Salesmen need to eat, too! I also needed B&W's and Audire's, and sports cars, etc. |
Hilde - I forgot to add I love your thread and the even handed tone you set :-) In my Poverty bay system pics there is a picture of our Labrador listening to power amps during an all day demo at Audio Alternative ( now hi Fi buys in Atlanta ) talk about welcomed in !!!! also for those wanting to bookmark used gear pages try Gig Harbor Audio and Hawthorne in Seattle. Eric at GHA is expanding !!!!! |
I have experienced both sides of the coin. One as a middle school kid. A life long friend of mine and I would ride our bikes to the local Hi-Fi store, Alma's. There was a salesman in the store that could have easily ran us off. There was little to no chance of us being able to buy anything in that store. Instead he was very gracious and allowed us to experience high end audio that was well past our means. We were unabashed Rush fans and he would pop in the "Moving Pictures" CD for us in the "big" room. All the highest cost gear was in this room. He would turn up the volume reasonably high and as he was closing the big glass sliding door, grin and say "enjoy!" This actually fostered our appreciation for the technology that is Audiophile. This was not a one off event, we would go in there weekly during the summer. Again, he could have easily tired of this and told is to srcamm, but he never did. The other Audiophile retailer, The Gramaphone, has absolutely no tolerance for us and shoo us away promptly. Thanks to the dude at Alma's my friend and I developed an appreciation for high end audio and still love it to this day. Flash forward to adulthood. Living in St Louis area and I happened into one of the high end retailers and was summarily ignored in spite of having much deeper pockets now. So I left. I visited the other store " Music for Pleasure" and was greeted immediately and with respect and a real desire to establish my needs and budget. They did an excellent job of assessing both and they helped me load up the $10k I just spent in their store. |
@danvignau - good reminder that B&M businesses are just that, businesses, and that the owner and sales people who work there need to make sales to earn their living. I had two friends that sold stereo equipment and when I started purchasing direct from manufacturers and used on-line, I quit going to their stores. We are still friends but I didn't want to waste their time. |
@danvignau Appreciate your point and perspective. It's very important that we all consider one another's position; I always remember that the salesperson is, well, a person who needs to make a living. I try to be up front about my intentions, and I always assure them I am not just using their store so I can go buy online. That helps, sometimes, but not always. @tomic601 Thanks for the kind words. @firebird66 Love that story. The way we deal with the next generation is so crucial to who they turn out to be. After all, those "young kids" will soon enough be our doctors, nurses, business owners, teachers, etc. We will be in their hands (as a generation) soon enough. Mere self interest argues that they're treated with patience and kindness, now. |
The ways in which dealers and salesmen turn people off aren’t limited to monetary issues. I’ve gone into serious stores and pretty much without me asking anything, a salesman has decided that I wanted to hear his theories of audio purity to the point where I had to ask the owner if he could find me a different salesman who was interested in more than the opportunity to spew his theories without listening to see what I was in the market for or if I had any questions. Assuming that you are a sheep without having any opinions yourself is just as annoying as assuming from your appearance that you don't meet their monetary standards to be a customer. Have to wonder how people like that can stay in business. |
When I worked High end audio or audio at all, I always fully entertained those who had not the cash. Even the teen kids. No problem. They’ll be back, if you treat people right. One must always look good in their minds. They all eventually find themselves in the ’I know this guy, this great guy who knows some stuff’ mode, and they come to you. |
I live in Portland, OR and we have a handful of terrific dealers. I did have a bad experience at one NW Portland location. This specific dealer sold the Rega Brio and Totem Rainmakers. I was interested in hearing that combination together as I was looking to spend around $1000 on an integrated amp. I could tell the shop owner thought I wasn’t worth their time. When I asked to demo the combo I received a sigh from them since they had to hook the speakers up to the Rega Brio. And half way through only the second track they asked if I heard enough and then cut off the music. I was the only customer in the store so not sure what their hurry was. Haven‘t returned since. I understand I was looking at one of their least expensive products, but why carry this item if they have no interest in selling one to a customer. After hearing the Rega Brio, and other comparably priced integrated amps (at other dealers), I realized I was making a side grade rather than an upgraded. Ended up increasing my budget to $2500 and made a purchase from a different dealer. ________ ...to add to what others are saying about Echo Audio, they really are that amazing. There’s been times when Kurt has handed me his iPhone and told me to go nuts streaming on any of their systems. He even encouraged me to disconnect speakers myself and hook anything up I wanted to. Very trusting and welcoming of him. Just one example of the many great experiences I’ve had at Echo. I have also been talked out of purchases at Echo too, and suggested I check other local dealers that may have products that better suited my needs. Pure high class from the folks at Echo Audio. |
