Ever feel like a "low dollar" customer that your dealer doesn't think worth their time?

+ You and me both, I'm a Mac guy, and have been for 50 years. I'm sure my appearance, is a little deceiving. LOL But I've walked in ready to buy with 30,000.00 cash in my pocket, AND WALKED OUT... Got on a plane flew to Texas bought some gear, and shipped it back to California.

Went back to the dealer in 2 months with pictures of the new equipment
2 1.2k power amps, MX150, C2500, ect.. The whole thing.. He CRIED!!

He had my money but wouldn't even say hello on the showroom floor.

I got a Christmas card from the dealer in Texas for 15 years. He retired.

BTW, he paid for the plane ticket too.

Regards

Many dealers have survived by catering only to multi-million dollar installations and buyers who are not enthusiasts.

Their store front is mostly a joke, or the brands they rep force them to carry / show products they don't care about.

There was/is a particular store in Framingham, MA that treated me that way.  Thousands were spent in the store and always in cash, never asked for a discount and never got one.  Sometimes they went out of their way for me when I was buying something very expensive, but if I was spending a grand or less, the salespeople would walk right by me like I didn’t exist.   I don’t shop there any longer and now Audio Classics gets all my business. They treat everyone like gold weather you buy or not. 

There are certain things that successful salespeople learn early on in their careers, one of which, is to never judge a prospect by their appearance. I've sold homes to millionaires who drive old cars, wear thrift-store ties, and who are late on their haircuts more than once.

Frank

@oldhvymec Thanks for your story. The whole situation has a very weird vibe to it. In my story, a customer who spent $4k with you is asking about spending, potentially, another $4k and yet… And in your story, you still wind up supporting brick and mortar — but with the right kind of customer service.

@erik_squires I think they do care about the stuff they carry; it seems well-chosen. But there is, I think, a generational difference. These guys are not from a era of the knowledgeable owner and salesperson, someone much more like a trusted mechanic than a quick appliance sales guy. They are from a later era where you learn vocabulary and get a store up and running with good stuff, and then get bedazzled when a tech millionaire comes in and drops $100k on gear. Running a store and dealing with customers is pretty boring to this generation, so there better be a high payout or it just feels like *work.* (And maybe it’s just an *ethos* and not an age-thing, because I know younger people who really do care about their customers.)

@stereo5 I appreciate your story, too. Brick and mortar are becoming fewer and further between, so it’s hard to play hardball. But I know what you’re saying and wish I could emulate.

@oregonpapa I definitely come across like a middle class person; I was raised to be thrifty. I am not eager to buy something I don’t need or pay more than something is worth. That may seem to these guys like I’m cheap; what they don’t understand is that, so far, I have put together a $12k system — everything but the speakers — for $9k by buying used, open box, and demo. The money I have saved is going toward speakers and it will finally tap me out. But they have to be speakers I really believe are right for me.

It happens. 

oregonpapa

... never judge a prospect by their appearance. I’ve sold homes to millionaires who drive old cars, wear thrift-store ties, and who are late on their haircuts more than once.

That’s what most millionaires do; that’s how they acquired wealth. And that’s what Thomas J. Stanley learned while researching The Millionaire Next Door.

@stereo5 I know the store you are referring to & have purchased gear there in the past . The owner is a good & fair guy. One time I pulled into their parking lot at the same time as a guy in an arrest me red Ferrari. I was dressed in a suit & tie & he was dressed very casually.  When we went into the store the sales force obviously didn’t know who had the Ferrari so a couple sales people pounced on me until one got the nerve to ask if the Ferrari was mine. When I said no they quickly left to find the guy with the money.

Good Service  should be expected when your putting down 30k.But I have never experienced that .I remember when I was a teenager I worked the summer .and now said let me get a nice pair of speakers. I saw in the paper a place on Madison Ave in NYC had a sale on Fisher Speakers.  XP something, buy one get one Free.$99 plus tax.I took the train in and bought them.I loved them,hey this was 1968 .Fisher made good stuff.LOL .I had them until I bought a pair of Bose 901s in 1973 .I gave the speakers to my brother in law he was 16 .Did I get good service ? well he put cord on the boxes so I could carry them on the train ,I remember. They were Heavy.

Years ago, something happened to me and I wrote in to The Absolute Sound and Stereophile and they both printed my story. Now, I share it with you...

I called a brick-and-mortar store and asked them to listen to a turntable that I was interested in purchasing. The turntable, tonearm and cartridge altogether retailed for around $2,500. The guy on the phone actually told me that he would not take the time to set up that combination. He would, however, set up something for me to listen to if I was spending around $10,000.

NO BS!!! TRUE STORY.

Needless to say this put a very bad taste in my mouth. But I guess karma is a b**** because he was associated with some shady business deals and had to close up shop shortly thereafter.

Still...WTF?

No, I never do because I wouldn’t waste my time on people like that.
Any retail outfit can decide which customers they want to cater to and any customer can decide what type of people they want to deal with.
You are what you tolerate.  Go find a better dealer.

@lwin Wow. That's interesting. I was really trying to avoid that conclusion, but I think we all know when we're being given "the bum's rush." I do sense that the people at my shop know their stuff and I do feel like they've dealt more than fairly on purchases. That's why I have some cognitive dissonance about this other kind of treatment. But people are complicated, and what I think folks here are saying they like about their longtime dealers is consistent respect over a long period of time. Not just one good deal.

@devilboy WTF, indeed.

@mitch2 -- You're giving me the "talking to" I probably deserve to hear -- and which I'm already telling myself, however quietly. What makes it hard is that there is such value in *hearing things* that it seems worth it to put up with some mistreatment. But you're right — it is demeaning.

Here in NYC, there are numerous dealers who 'size up' their clientele.
It got so bad, I never wanted to deal with another dealer(namely one with S and S in their name).
I felt that way until I met with John Rutan at Audioconnection.
Bob

I own a pair of Chapman audio loudspeakers that are my favorite by far. They are getting a little long in the tooth so I have been interested in hearing what more recent offerings sound like. They only have one dealer, located in Seattle. I am in Albuquerque. I contacted that dealer by email, text and phone to set a time to audition some new Chapmans, flew to Seattle, went to the store and nope the owner would not let me audition a pair unless I put money down with a commitment to purchase prior to hearing. Probably should’ve gotten on the ferry and headed over to Vashon Island and visited Stuart directly. Instead, I hopped in my rental and headed to Tacoma where a dealer let me sit for four hours listening to Vandersteen Quatro’s and Treo’s with no obligation whatsoever. Since that time, I’ve had a number of friends and acquaintances from Portland to San Juan Island ask me for component and full system recommendations. No guessing where I send them and who I tell them to avoid. They’ve spent thousands at Advanced Audio. 

Thanks for those stories. It makes me realize that it may wind up being necessary to support good brick/mortar dealers *somewhere* but necessarily down the road. I have heard numerous good things about John Rutan at Audioconnection. I'll go read about Advanced Audio, next.

Wow, I thought that it was just me. I never really forgot about an experience in Phoenix, Az where a buddy and I visited a High end retailer or two. The visit that I remember most was at a place called Jerry's. We walked in with cash to spare. Wanted to at least look at some McIntosh equipment. Two pieces in a row that we asked about were taken off the shelf as if they had a place to go. I really can't make this up, and it was obvious to both of us that we were in the way. We walked out. Next shop was completely different, but not so good either. They seemed to want to show how damned good the Quad ESL speakers were and they right. Never heard anything like them since. But with nose high in the air, the salesman seemed just want and let us know. That was the end of that shop. Dam! So the 3rd shop was two guys who were making speakers that were quite impressive for the day. They were friendly, ready to advise, and finally we got the feeling that we could actually be customers in the future if there was a need. Drove 100 miles to just look and maybe buy some equipment. If there was a sale to be made that day it would have gone to the 3rd shop.
 Thing is, I probably made more money and had more knowledge than any of the sales people in those stores, except perhaps the two who built their own product. Take note, we are not chumps, so how is treating people like that going to make you a living?

Sorry @hilde45 , my post wasn't meant as a "talking to" but more about my distaste of folks treating others poorly and a reminder that you have options.  Unfortunately, those people just don't get it and don't understand the power of relationships and networking as related to sales.

@mitch2 -- I didn't get that tone at all from your comment. I was re-framing it that way because I found you saying something that I was kind of saying to myself! No worries!

@4krowme That's a great story. And I keep hearing about how much trouble the brick/mortar folks are in. But if the bookstore people are willing to walk me all over the store to find a paperback or talk to me about other books I might like, why is it so hard to do that with someone buying an amp? After all, the bookstore people are not going to sell me a $500 cable a month from now.

Never!

I only deal with Audio Concepts in Dallas Texas and Raven Audio in Texas as well as PS audio in Boulder CO. They all make me feel like I am their one and only customer and treat me right.

To bad. you should move on to another dealer that makes you feel special and treats you right.

@wideload 
I know both of the Seattle area dealers you mentioned and I am not surprised at either of your experiences as mine were very similar. I used to get different service at my bank's drive-thru when I was on my Harley than when I was in my Lexus. No one wants to be treated as if they're doing you a favor by taking your money.

Not just "Yes," but "HELL YES."

When you tell a store you are an interested buyer IF they carry something you like, you are not seen as a low dollar customer. You are seen as a waste of time. A dealer has a product line. If you are interested in one of those products -- and make it clear you are in the market for it -- you will get a much better response from that dealer. Even if you say I like the Wilson speakers you carry but I can't afford new do you have anything used, demo, blemished, etc., you will get just as an enthusiastic response.

I’ve been made to feel exactly that way.  I don’t have a big audio budget but I enjoy going to shops and engaging with salesman.  Just like you I’m a careful shopper and I expect that whether I’m spending $79 on a phono preamp, or thousands on a set of loud speakers, I want to be treated well.  I spend most of my time researching online well before I enter a brick and mortar to touch feel and listen and an engaging salesman will make the difference between me making my purchase in store or online.  If you don’t care about my $79 purchase then take the $79 merchandise out of your store.  There’s not many brick and mortar shops left so I’d think the owners would try to win more customers with great customer engagement.  

@gs5556 they know I’m interested because I’ve auditioned their speakers before AND I bought other gear. But your point is well taken and it makes sense. On the other hand, why would it be a waste of time to try? Isn’t that what “sales” is all about? Maybe they’re already *too* successful? I don’t think that’s it...

Funny how you can tell when someone is in sales, or their SIL, Son, brother someone they know is in sales..

The customer has the money... They may not always be right, but a good salesperson, can always, suggest. Made up minds, are money in the bank. Right? Ask one question... Is this what you want?... NOT NEED!
WANT!! Half the time the person will say, "if I had the money" la-te-da.

or NO, "this is what I want, or can afford" 

BUT not even ask a question.. LOL c'est la vie.....

Take my gold elsewhere....

Regards...

I think that people/businesses/sales associate don't know they suck until someone tells them they suck. I will never forget about 12 years ago a nurse came up to me and said "Do you know that you have been a real ahole lately!". Changed my outlook completely.  When I find myself falling back to that demeanor, I remind myself what she said. My point is speak your mind and move on. The dealers can correct or not. If they don't treat you well, so be it. It is their loss, not yours. I'm sure someone else out there would be happy to have your business.

It's been a long time since I've bought something in a shop, besides a few records.  I usually order direct, because my local dealers are not carrying what I'm interested in; not that I wasn't looking to buy in their shop, but I never seem to hear anything that wows me enough to buy.  I have been herded into the "budget" speaker room and told that I WILL walk out with this or that speaker because it will blow me away, but it never does.  I have been offered the service of a shop building me a $50,000 system before they even knew why I was there.  I don't care any more; I just buy elsewhere.

Definitive Audio in Seattle, and Bellevue, specializes in making you feel they are doing you a favor to take money from one so unworthy. No, wait, that's not fair. That's the way they were when it was just Microsoft. They make you feel unworthy even to call for an appointment time to give them your money. No, that's not quite right either. That's the way they were when Amazon came. They make you feel you should be groveling in thanks to live even one moment in a world so perfect as to include the existence of Definitive Audio. Yeah. That's it. Full on Goolag.  

No never. It sounds like an inferiority complex. Every dealer I've ever purchased from when I started out exhibited mutual respect. Now I usually buy direct and every builder I've dealt with is cool.
hilde45 how could anyone possibly be "your" dealer if not?
I cannot grasp the concept.

The only "Survivors" in today's retail world will be those who
understand how to forge a relationship with a customer.

That means most hourly or commission help are eliminated
as the principle of treating everyone equally is not taught
or valued as viable any longer. 

The retailer offering home automation, theatre, lighting and security combo is the new survivor. Limited knowledge of high end audio should be expected from the store.

Covid is going to take down many of the few existing hifi retailers.

I hope I am wrong but...

There are other professional dealers who respect and enjoy to earn your business. The smart ones know referrals and return business is  everything in today's world of the internet and online forums like this. 

@hilde45
Your local dealer just gave you a pass to take your money elsewhere. It happens and it was theirs to lose.  They lost and another dealer will gladly earn your business - and do a better job helping you to select the right speakers for your cool new Quicksilver Mono 60 tube amplifiers!  

I can't believe some of the stories I'm reading here. 

@wideload ... Wow. Sickening.

Unfortunately, I would have to add a "Yes" to the count. I had sold my old system (mostly Linn and Naim stuff, but with Fried Speakers...I miss them the most!) a while ago and wanted to get back into throwing my retirement money at audio equipment. I had just retired and moved and found a cute little audio shop near the center of town. When I walked in and told them I wanted to re-enter the hobby, I told them what I wanted and could spend (I knew I had to keep it under $2000 to avoid a divorce). Knowing that would mean that I would have to upgrade soon, they could have sold me a nice little system to meet my budget, but instead quoted me a McIntosh MTI100 and B&W 705 speakers. They "threw in the stands" for me. Total cost with wires, etc. was over $10,000 more than my budget! I went out and found a record store that sells used vintage stuff, and started there. It's all been replaced, but it was fun and a lot less costly (both in the wallet and peace-at-home). And I still have no idea why McIntosh would put tubes right next to the tonearm...just sayin'!

@fuzztone I only used the phrase "your dealer" in a weak sense — in the sense that they are local, carry gear of interest, not a lot of alternatives for try out. I’ve lived places where we said "our supermarket" because it was one of the only alternatives nearby. We didn’t like it much, but it was "our" market. But I hear you about "direct." I bought my DAC direct and am dealing direct for speakers, most likely. Thing is, I don’t object to dealer markup if I’m getting something for that. But in this case, it *subtracts* from the exchange in both money and respect.

@chorus

"The retailer offering home automation, theatre, lighting and security combo is the new survivor."

That’s exactly right. There are at least three dealers of good stuff here that are now mainly this. They still have good gear, but they’re mainly installing Push Buttons for Busy Executives. That said, at least one of them (the Totem dealer) was super helpful and good with my tryout visit there. I may go back to hear more. Problem is their gear is limited and aimed at super rich houses who want "elegant" looking gear (e.g. Burmester). So I can’t really hear more than 1 thing there.

@decooney You’re exactly right. This is my ticket to shop elsewhere. They carry Dynaudio and I’m intrigued by Dynaudio, I won’t lie. But others sell Dynaudio, too. Hell, some are even on Agon.

Let’s add another good story to the mix:
I am what I would charitably call a thrifty audiophile who almost always buys used; the key pieces in my system are a 55-year-old Mac preamp and 35-year-old Cornwalls. A couple years ago, I was in Omaha and stopped into Absolute Sound just to check it out. My wife and three young kids were with me (we were in the city for one of the kids to play a football game). I’d never been there before and clearly had the look of someone who was doing a good job to keep making payments on the minivan I pulled up in, but the family and I were treated with kindness and respect; they even auditioned what had to be a half-million dollar system for all of us for more than a half hour. I ended buying about $50 of speaker wire, but I never felt like I was wasting the salesman’s time at all.
I’ve since returned to upgrade my wire and interconnects with entry-level products, but again, I never felt like anything but a valued customer.
If my youngest ever makes good on his dreams of being in the NFL and he wants to buy his old man some new stereo gear, guess where we’re going?

Boy I miss the Tech HiFi back in the day....and also Spearit Sound in Boston....those were the days....

Let me add examples of my experience, and I'll tell you, how I am treated by a business means whether or not they get my money.
When I call Vintage tube services and talk directly to Andy or I call Brent Jesse Audio recording and speak to Brent (both NOS tube retailers) they take their time with me. They are polite and very helpful. They both are happy to answer all my questions so I can make an informed decision and that is why I continue to give them my money.
When I called a speaker manufacturer, here in the U.S., about some upgrades that he offers to the speakers they sell I spoke to the owner and I was treated like he couldn't be bothered. His attitude was horrible. It was his product, you would think he would be proud to discuss any questions I had about them. I can't imagine wanting people to buy my products and me treating them like that.
What he didn't know was, I was asking because I was planning on buying a pair of speakers further up the line from the ones I already owned, from his company. My plan was to give my current speakers to my nephew.
I'm glad that the speakers I was going to hand down were purchased used, and because of how he treated me, I will never give his company a dime of my money regardless of how many tweeters his speakers have!
Moral of the story is you never know who you're talking to and what means they have. So when you mistreat people you may never find out.

John

@fdroadrunner I love your story. Especially in the age of the internet, you can never know the difference between a "local" and "regular." It makes sense this happened in Omaha, where I’d expect people to be nicer than they might be in, say, New York (where I’m from, so I know). But as MillerCarbon points out, money can change even nice Seattle folks into keepers of dens of privilege.

@Rushfan71 I have also had good dealings with Brent Jessee about tubes and was surprised to get a nice notes back quickly from Don Sachs, Kara at DeHavilland, Quicksilver, and Vandersteen himself. Some of these sell direct, so you can almost expect that direct response (still, they deserve credit). Others sell through dealers and yet there they are — keeping friendly dialogue going. These folks all know that the audio community is not *that* large, that these are often passed down, and that folks talk to one another.

Back in 1977 I went to Lyric HiFi in NYC to buy a Dynavector 20B mc cartridge. I wasn't allowed into the store! I had to wait in the foyer while the cartridge was brought to me (factory-sealed) and I paid with cash! That was my first visit to Lyric (run by Mike Kay). My second visit several years later was even worse (posted a few years ago)! 

As a former owner of audio stores, I can vouch for the absolute stupidity of some in the business of audio retail.
Not only for the rudeness stand point, but the total dismissal of future business because your nose is in the stratosphere while your brain is in a tire rut, is certifiable lunacy.

@audioguy85. Boy does that bring back memories.

"Did you ever feel like the whole world is a tuxedo and you are a pair of brown shoes"? - George Gobel

I've haunted this forum for some time for the great advice and insight, but I've felt intimidated from joining the conversations for just that reason.  Not all of us have the money to throw around that some of the members have.  I've been lucky enough through patience and being a thrifty shopper (ok, cheap m*f*), to put together a decent system, and try to improve it as I can.  I've managed to get a Gryphon Elektra pre-amp from Goodwill, just needed to make my own cables to link the power supply and main unit.  I've almost gotten my McIntosh MC275, also a Goodwill purchase, restored.  I'm in the process of restoring an Oracle Delphi Mk1.  All too cheap for most of these salespeople to even look at me.  I've found there is much nose-turning in this hobby, but questing for truer sound reproduction shouldn't be a class or budget thing.

It has been a mixed bag of experiences with me.  I've had some iffy encounters with B&M stores, but borderline rude treatment in my experience seems to hinge more on being recognized as audiophile cogniscenti than looking like a fountain of cash.  I've seen attitudes completely change with a few words indicating my next purchase wasn't going to be just a cool looking bobble used to impress my friends.   However, I've largely moved on from B&M stores at this point.  I get better guidance from the AG forum than I ever got from a salesman.  Don't need them anymore.  They are more trouble than they are worth, and the savings associated with buying used or the direct to customer model is too compelling to ignore.

Shout out to Audio Concepts in Dallas. I am not a big spender but they treat me great, which is partly due to me not wasting their time.  

@audioguy85,

Spearit Sound was in Northampton, MA.  It’s about 100 miles north west of Boston. 

The biz is full of irony. You pull up in something like a Camry and the salesman judges you as a poor chump, yet he drives home in a screeching Kia. 

First time poster and this story isn't audio specific but it fits with the customer service subject. Anyhow, here's how its should be done...when I was 15 my sightly older cousin and I happened into a high end men's clothing store in our home town. Now, based on my families situation most of my clothes at the time were from K-Mart, Sears and JC Penny. Not dogging those stores but it wasn't the type of clothes I was seeing at the men's store. The owner upon hearing the door chime came out from the backroom and introduced himself and invited us to take our time and look around. What the heck! So we did. The price of the first shirt I looked nearly knocked me to the ground. Dang, it would take me a year and half of recycling my Dad's beer cans to afford one shirt! At the end of our visit, the owner, who had returned to the back room as we browsed, came out and asked if we had any questions. We did and he graciously answered them. Then I mentioned I could never afford to buy any clothes in his shop. He chuckled and said, "most kids your age couldn't but someday you might just be able to afford a shirt or a pair a pants or coat from me and I hope the day you can you come back and visit my store". Well, after earning my first true paycheck where do you think I went to purchase a new get-up? That's a great shop owner/businessman who see's the whole picture. I learned a huge lesson from this man that I use to this day. And yes after 26 years he still gets a few dollars out the pants he's sold me through the years!  

gator, that is a great example of a conscientious salesperson. Many work a job for eight hours with much free time in between. They are there anyway. Use each "sales" opportunity as practice for perfection, even if a sale is not made. The well treated costumer will then remember that experience positively. Win-win!