Integrated amp recommendations for harbeth 30.2 XD

I don't have experience with the Monitor 30's only the 40's and the SHL5 series. The best integrated amps I have heard with the Harbeth's are the Aesthetix Mimas and the Ayre EX-8. The Mimas was what I chose but I liked the EX-8 almost as much. The older Primare integrated i30, was good as well. I think the Belles Aria Signature may be a good fit as well. I personally did not like the Pass amp I had on my Monitor 40's but many users of the combination are very happy. Try to listen to as many as you can for yourself.

I don't like tubes with Harbeth speakers in general though my Mimas is a hybrid and there are many happy Harbeth owners using tubes. I really think SS amps bring out the best qualities of the Harbeth's.

I would however, take the advice of Monitor 30 owners as a better guide than my advice. I have never owned a pair of the 30's, the CS7's or the p3esr.

Good Luck!

there are several threads on the right amplification to drive harbeths... much has been covered

search and you shall find

short answer is upper tier refined strong solid state:

ayre, hegel, pass, upper luxman, upper naim and some others like primare i-30, sony ta-1es class a, some musical fidelity... and of course some of the megabuck units like gryphon, coda etc etc

I was able to audition them with BelCanto integrated amp class D, I Believe. To me it was one of the finest matches Ive ever listen too !

What is that you don't like about the Rega?  Many Harbeth owners think that Rega amps are excellent with Harbeths, and the Aethos is a very well regarded amp.  Harbeth's designer, Alan Shaw, goes so far as to claim that amplifiers with a flat frequency response operating within their power envelope are indistinguishable from one another in blind testing.  I think that the Luxman, the Simaudio, and the Rega are all powerful enough for the Harbeths.  And they are all well designed integrated amps.  Could you let us know what you're looking for from your amp that the Rega isn't giving you?  You'll get more specific recommendations that way.  Cheers!

@smrex13 makes a very fair point

i haven’t heard or had the rega aethos myself but from what i can glean from a quick search, it is a substantial effort on the part of rega to build a very good sounding powerful amp, and it should work quite well with harbeths

I’ve been powering my 30.1 with a Hegel h160, and it works well. Many other Harbeth users are also reportedly happy with Hegel amps.

Having said that, though, as I am now using a (Denafrips) stand-alone DAC, I’ve decided to switch/upgrade to a GATO AMP-150. It is scheduled to be delivered soon, and I’ll give my impressions not long after.

just a sidebar, amusing comment...

alan shaw, owner and main man of harbeth, is adamant that his speakers are quite easy to drive, and any ’decent’ amplifier within the wattage ratings provided per each speaker model will do a fine job

on his user forum, any attempt at discussing better or worse amplification for his speakers are shut down by him with an iron fist, as he personally moderates the discussion forum -- with the rationale that the user forum is about users discussing how great his speakers are, but one had better not try to distinguish a better or worse amp to use in driving them - he doesn't want amplifier brands discussed, yamaha vs rega vs denon vs quad vs sugden.... - it needs to be about harbeth

so ok, alan shaw is completely and totally ’agnostic’ about what amps should be used to drive his speakers (all do just a fabulous job) -- then you ask, so alan, in the company, the workshop, the lab, testing room, audio shows, what amp do you use to test and voice and demonstrate your harbeths?

his answer - ’a hegel h360 for many years, and now, a hegel h390’...

ROFLMAO...

@jjss49 

That is a bit unfair. Shaw has talked about why he likes Hegel:

My position on Hegel is abundantly clear. It is the only hifi amp I have ever measured in my lab that has what I consider to be a proper gain structure throughout.

In layman's language that means that with a 'hot' source pumping audio volts into the input channel it is practically impossible to clip or overload the input. That indicates to me a mature, pragmatic real-world approach to the circuit design in a market where far too many amps have input stage clipping evidenced by the ridiculously low setting of the volume control (typically 10 o'clock or lower) at which the output clips. Hence a hard, hard, grainy sound. Indeed, I'd suspect that the extreme sensitivity of the volume control (hardly on, really loud) is prima facie evidence of clipping.

I have been playing P3XD over the last days via one of my H390s and with the volume at about 60/99, I have lots of power reserve and a clean, loud, unclipped sound.

@whipsaw

all good... actions speak louder than words in my view, especially from those who are well versed at marketing :)

all who care can draw their own conclusions, fair or unfair... don’t get me wrong, i really like harbeths, wonderful speakers that sound so true, i have a couple pair... but i think its pretty hilarious about the amps

I own M 30.1's.  I've used an LFD NCSE with the 30.1's - fantastic sound but - no remote.  Sold.  I moved to a Luxman L-507uxii.  Had the Lux for a couple of years, very good with the Harbeth's, not up to the LFD standard but very flexible and nice sound.  Also has a good MC cartridge stage which I need for my system. 

For no good reason (sound familiar?), a few months ago I sold the Lux and bought a Pass INT-25 and supplement with a Sutherland 20/20 phono stage now.  The Pass might be an end game integrated for me.  I was familiar with Pass but from maybe 20 years ago.  The Aleph 3; a fine amp.  Can't remember why I sold that one either.  Damn fine amp.  

In my particular situation, sitting maybe 10 feet from the Harbeths with the Harbeths about 2 feet from the rear wall, the INT-25 is as good an amp as I've experienced.  I listen to lots of acoustic jazz, cello, violin, quartets, piano, classical guitar, lots of live, well recorded music streaming from both vinyl and Qobuz.  It's a special integrated.  

Newton if you like the sound you're getting with the Aethos but want to improve on it the Rega Isis seems like an obvious choice. If not as asked above what are you not liking about your current setup?

NAD M33. It’s got 200 very clean distortion free watts into both 4 and 8 ohms, an amazing neutral sound, comes with Dirac Live room correction, both M/M M/C phono inputs, and BlueOS streaming. Product of the year from a couple of different reviewers. I love mine, drives my 4 ohm speakers easily.  Only $5k.

I haven’t personally used the devialet integrateds with my 30.2s, but since they have utilized software that is capable of adjusting the sonics specifically to the 30.2 (using their Speaker Active Matching capability), I am very curious. I’ve heard the expert 140 with different speakers and was impressed.

I have spent considerable time with the following combination of electronics driving HARBETH, and could easily live with it without the least remorse. Especially if you are into jazz and classical. 
A pair of PRIMA LUNA EVO400 MONOBLOCKS, equipped with a matched set of KT150's. Driven by a PRIMA LUNA EVO 400 PRE-AMP.

I'll say no more, but if you have the funds, I strongly suggest arranging an extensive demo. You won't be returning anything. 

Solid state ??- - - - I have always "worshiped" PASS LABS for many, many reasons. Can't afford that.? Take a listen to HEGEL.

Steveashe, the Pass Labs keep eluding me for no good reason. When I was selecting the ultimate integrated last year, it was down to the Pass Labs INT-60 and Luxman L-590AXII. I settled with the latter and was extremely pleased with the performance of the amp in my system. I also run Harbeth (SHL5 +) and Marten Duke 2.

Although I have no urge to make any change, I’m still curious about the Pass, particularly the INT-60 vs INT-25 and INT-250. Is the INT-60 a more powerful version of the INT-25? I am waiting for someone to compare the Pass INT-60 to Luxman L-590AXII and share the impressions here.

I'll give you my experience with my 30.2s from a decent amount of experimentation mixing and matching from different systems in my house, FWIW:

Audio Research REF 40 (pre) + REF 75 (stereo amp) was OK.  Not great.  Too much of an understated sound for my tastes, even though I adore that ARC gear on lots of other speakers.  Needed real volume to unfold and bloom.

NAD M33 was noticeably punchier and, for the first few days, I liked it better.  But there is something that bothers me about this amp, on any speaker.  Hard to nail it exactly, but there is a certain unnaturalness, or artifice, to that amp.  And the Harbeth's do not mask anything, so it bothered me most of all with the 30.2s.  I now have it connected to the much more romantic NOLA Contender 2, and that's a better -- albeit imperfect -- pairing.

Prima Luna HP Premium Dialogue integrated was OK.  Occasionally hard and bitey.  And with some glare.  Especially with KT150s.

D'Agostino Progression integrated -- match made in heaven.  Love it.  Been riding this combo the longest.  All the usual platitudes, which I'll spare you for now. 

From that very limited sample, I might agree with the comment about favoring SS over tubes.  Even though the 30.2s stay in the 6 ohm range most of the time and have no big dips, for some reason they seem to get more expressive with more current.  But making sweeping conclusions based on hearing approx .02% of the world's amp offerings is always kinda dumb.  What I am more comfortable saying is that I'm not surprised so many reviewers use Harbeth in their reference systems; they really tell you what's upstream.  A really impressive speaker.  If you actually want to hear differences between cables, cartridges, DACs, etc, use those speakers.  But unfortunately, I think that means one needs to try quite a few amps to nail the particular sound you're looking for.  (On that note, I suspect what Mr Shaw's real position on amps is not that they all will sound equally GOOD, but that the Harbeth's will be equally REVEALING of most amp's personality.  Two very different propositions.)

I have the HARBETH 30.2 XD’s driven by a REGA OSIRIS integrated amp and paired with its stablemate REGA ISIS VALVE cdp/DAC. (And a MAGNUM DYNALAB FT101a ETUDE fm tuner)
It is stellar and a keeper .... full stop.

If you are now questioning your overall audio performance with these killer speakers, my guess is that the problem would likely be the compromises and warts with your source and/or the room acoustics ..... And not your REGA amp. These speakers will graphically reveal all the pros and cons upstream.

Your speakers will perform a lot better if placed on quality build open form stands (look at TonTraegers ...I have custom build bespoke clones done by a pro woodworker) and also properly positioned from the back wall and side walls ( min .75 m and 1 m respectively)

https://www.tontraeger-audio.com/lang/en/reference-stands.html
https://vinylsound.ca/products/tontraeger-m30-1-reference-stands-for-harbeth-monitor-30-1

@jjss49 
"on his user forum, any attempt at discussing better or worse amplification for his speakers are shut down by him with an iron fist, as he personally moderates the discussion forum -- with the rationale that the user forum is about users discussing how great his speakers are, but one had better not try to distinguish a better or worse amp to use in driving them - he doesn't want amplifier brands discussed". 

Wow, that seems like a self-inflicted invitation for the moderator to get all spun up. Wish them the best of luck with that! 

@decooney

lol - couple years ago when i bought back a set of compact 7’s for fun (after enjoying super 5’s and mon 40s a decade earlier), i found that harbeth user’s group... first i thought it was hella cool -- the owner main designer boss man goes on the board frequently chats with customers answers questions shares thoughts etc etc

then after a couple weeks i realized that place is run like an oppressive regime... our little hifi world version of ’i can’t breathe’ ... but as all these things go in online and tv media these days, people only gather in their own echo chambers, each agreeing and amplifying long held beliefs, pretty much sheep fanboys and associated dealers participate, very few open minds, limited intellectual honesty - ’tis a comment on our general society as much as harbeth or audio in these times

my view is it is a decent place to gather info on the speakers, esp for those new to harbeth, but it’s not one for any real discussion -- takes nothing away from the excellence of the speakers though...

If you are now questioning your overall audio performance with these killer speakers, my guess is that the problem would likely be the compromises and warts with your source and/or the room acoustics ..... And not your REGA amp.

Not all Rega amps are built to sound the same. I owned the Rega Elicit mk2 and the Harbeth SHL5 sounded lacklustre when matched with it.

I would imagine the Osiris to be the best sounding Rega amp, followed closely by the Aethos. The lower range Rega integrateds are suboptimal if your system is above average, particularly if you own some Harbeth speakers.

RYDER has a good point in general vis-a-vis matching higher strata build upstream components to very revealing HARBETH speakers (… and this is not just limited to REGA’s lower tier offerings ,,,): You always only get what you pay for….

Maximizing your HARBETHs performance is an alchemy of 3 things: - a direct function of the components system build price point in the 1st part,
- Price alone is no assurance of a pathway down the Yellow Brick Road to Audio OZ . One size does not fit all …. It will need experimentation to maximize system synergy overall
- And finally, an awareness and ethereal management of acoustic warts introduced in your bespoke listening arena. Th identical system in two different arenas can sound very different in terms of listener satisfaction.

THE GOOD NEWS AND NOT SO GOOD NEWS IMO:

Your HARBETHs are the most agnostic speakers I’ve auditioned in suitable matching with the many high-build amplifier brands. E.g. LFD was my 2nd choice behind my REGA OSIRIS with great results

Conversely they are most revealing speaker to an extreme of graphically exposing all compromises and limitations from your source. That includes the complimentary issue about performance and quality of your ICs.

THE OPEN END CONFLICTING ISSUE OF “BEST” SPEAKER CABLES:

Mr Shaw preaches his mantra that HARBETH are completely agnostic about “good” speaker cables, and that low-budget cheap 79-strand QEDs are examples of suitable partners. Both my HARBETH dealer and I are not in his cohort army.. I currently run a full all-NORDOST FREY high-end loom array with great performance.

LITMUS TEST BAKE-OFF COMING: I just bought the comparatively modest strata CHORD RUMOUR speaker cables to purposely test drive Mr. Shaw’s theories / assumption in the coming weeks in a direct A-B shootout against my incumbent FREYs. (There is a BIG difference in price point deltas…)

Interested parties can PM me on the results.

FWIW

Very early days, but I am getting excellent results with the combination of my 30.1 and newly acquired GATO AMP-150.

@whipsaw

let us know how good it sounds and how it compares with others you have had!

saw darko’s review on the piece... he loves stuff that has cool design, looks so unique and elegant -- that is certainly a beautifully made amp

@jjss49 

I will. It replaced a Hegel h160, which, while not of the current generation of Hegel amps, was really quite good. Darko was using a newer, more powerful Hegel.

Having only had the GATO for ~24 hours, I can safely say that to my ear it is better, at least in terms of sound reproduction. The Hegel was, in some respects, more convenient, and I have some minor quibbles with the GATO remote, and display.

Of course the sound is paramount, and I am cycling through some of my more familiar CDs in an attempt to refine my thoughts, before I articulate them online.

My local Harbeth dealer only sells tube amplifiers.  I have heard the 30.2s with a number of low output tube amps and it sounds quite good with the to which it was paired--Synthesis Roma 96 (pushpull EL34, Synthesis A40 (pushpull KT66), and Audionote Cobra (pushpull EL34). 

This dealer has one solid state amp in the store, a Parasound amp that is used for demonstrating the difference between tube and solid state sound.  

If I were in the market for this speaker, I would not overlook tube amplification.  The need for high-powered amps for Harbeth speakers is overstated.

Not 30.2, yet I heard the 40.1s with two different Cary and CJ tube amps, in the 50w triode and 100w ultralinear range, larger transformers.  

Sounded really nice in the low to mid-volume range, not lacking anything really except maybe super fast snap to the bass if you are into that.  Very musical for sure, enough so we stopped listening to the differences with the gear itself, and much more engaged in the music.  

I must agree with Alan Shaw and those here who have recommended the Hegel H390, or H590 (which I have) and other Hegels.

I found these the only amplifiers to allow the Harbeth M30.1 and M40.2 to achieve their optimum sound. They absolutely require a powerful SS amp to do so... but... especially Hegel amps.

They clear up the bass and mids, and add the dynamics that others can’t achieve. I would not have kept either of these fine Harbeths, had I not heard them with the Hegel amps. IMO they allow the Harbeths to compete with about any speaker available!

Though, I could also consider the McIntosh MA252 and MA352 tube / SS hybrids as a close equivalent - they may even add some pristine highs that are unrivaled.

Check out these videos - you’ll be AMAZED:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=harbeth+30.1+with+hegel+

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=harbeth+30.1+and+mcintosh+ma252

Though - I’m sure the rooms and room treatments may add a lot!

I think I posted that my KRELL k-300i would be great with a Harbeth, but I deleted that post since I was set to sell the unit. However, today those plans have changed and the KRELL is needed.

I have heard the Harbeth with Luxman c900u and m900u combo and it was great. The Harbeth are usually not the type of speaker I gravitate towards. However, with the Luxman pairing It was great, but also very expensive

My KRELL k-300i integrated sounds a lot like that Luxman sound that I heard. Very smooth, detailed, and powerful. The internal DAC is OK and is what I will use in the future for convenience. I also hooked up a Gustard X26 Pro DAC and an AudioMirror Tubadour III SE with Fibre Optical streaming into USB and it was better than the internal DAC streamed to the NETWORK (RJ45) input.

I highly recommend this unit and I think it is the best integrated in the $12K and under price range that I have heard. The CODA CSiB is also another great integrated but I think the KRELL is a bit smoother (maybe a good thing), with stronger bass, and technically very advanced (with DAC option).

AKG_CA, I broadly agree with your sentiments.

I just bought the comparatively modest strata CHORD RUMOUR speaker cables to purposely test drive Mr. Shaw’s theories / assumption in the coming weeks in a direct A-B shootout against my incumbent FREYs. (There is a BIG difference in price point deltas…)

Interested parties can PM me on the results.

Alan Shaw used to express opinionated views on amplifiers, cables and stands for his speakers. I wouldn’t want to bring it out here again but let’s just say I don’t agree with his opinions as well. Before he advocated powerful Hegel amps for Harbeth speakers, he used to say amplifiers don’t matter as any modest-powered amp would work on his speaker. This includes the Rega Brio, Elicit and Nait 5i to name a few. Of course it would work. The real question is whether music will sound good with those low powered amps..

In my experience, no.

The Rega Osiris must be something special to sound better than the LFD with the Harbeth. Is the LFD a Zero or NCSE? The Osiris has received very positive reviews by the Brits, both reviewers and users alike.

Please share your impressions on the Nordost Frey vs Chord Rumour speaker cable on this thread. Personally I don’t think the Rumour will sound better than the Frey. I used to have Chord Epic on the Harbeth SHL5+ . The Epic is a higher range cable than the Rumour and it does sound quite respectable with the Harbeth. I now use Chord Signature XL and it made the Epic sound colored and slightly congested. The higher range Signature XL’s clarity is quite a step up from the Epic. For this reason I don’t think the Rumour will surpass the performance of the Nordost Frey in your system. In short, cables do matter with the Harbeth or any other speaker in my experience.

I do not have experience with the Krell K-S300i although I briefly tried the KAV-300i in my system many years ago. I presume the signature punch and dynamic presentation of the Krell would be quite ideal for the Harbeth.

As shown in this thread, the current capability and drive of the amp is one of the single most important parameters to ensure the Harbeth will sound good, if not great.

the hegel h160 while a ’last gen’ piece at this point, would, imo, set a very high bar to beat in driving harbeths (it is last gen primarily in the dac section only, the amp section is still absolutely top notch) - this is why i am so curious to hear @whipsaw’s findings with his new gato... it would be really something of note if the gato can outperform the h160

another amp i have found to work very very well with the harbeths are the devialets (they also have a useful ’sam’ feature that enhances the bass response of the speaker while also protecting the bass driver) - truly excellent sound

finally, harbeths are a speaker that readily exposes the sq difference between really fine amps like hegel or ayre or pass vs something like a nad... this comment is borne from personal experience, not reviews, nor conjecture

the hegel h160 while a ’last gen’ piece at this point, would, imo, set a very high bar to beat in driving harbeths (it is last gen primarily in the dac section only, the amp section is still absolutely top notch)

Thanks for that, and I do agree that the h160 is excellent. I could have easily lived with it and been happy, but had an itch to try out the GATO.

It’s still very early, but I am tempted to say that the GATO is fleshing out some subtle details that I wasn’t hearing with the Hegel. It could well be bias at play, as I am not set up to A/B the two amps under controlled conditions, but I do seem to be hearing some differences.

I was listening last night to an excellent (live) Mary Stallings CD that I know well, and, among other things, Ron Blake’s tenor saxophone playing sounded more vivid in that I was picking up details from around his mouth.

I also want to say that I am picking up on what might be thought of as a more ’organic’ timbre from acoustic instruments, and that GATO has a better 'grip' on the bass.

I need more time, though, to arrive at any kind of confident conclusions.

whip -- be sure to clarify if you used the h160 through its onboard dac, or if you listened to the amp section only with other source feeding the 160 through analog inputs - important distinction

h160 dac based on an older gen akm chip now 5-6 years old, can sound a little dull and obscure some subtle details compared to the better dacs out there today (and the refreshed hegel dac sections)

gato is straight integrated, no onboard dac, yes?

cheers

Sorry! No, I have used both through my relatively new Denafrips Pontus II DAC. So in that sense, the comparison is fair, as I was bypassing the Hegel DAC.

This is my first stand-alone DAC, and it has spurred the temptation to upgrade other components, at least to some extent. I am not a serial flipper, though, and when I am happy with a system, I usually stick with it for years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxdsq451hP0

Gato vs Hegel.  I presume they're played in the order listed in the title.

The luxman or the large accuphase would be good choices for that speaker they will add a new dimension to the sound over the rega.

I own the Harbeth 30.2 and matched it with the Luxman 590AXII, it's wonderful. Very open and revealing, as has been mentioned already. I will say (in my opinion) they did not sound good with my older McIntosh equipment, and although I like tubes, I felt the high-end  SS amps sounded better with the Harbeth's. I went with the Luxman as it has tone and loudness controls for which I like the flexibility when listening at low levels. If you don't want that feature, several folks recommended Hegel, and other high-end brands which I have heard and are great also a great match.

+1 @deadhead1000 --

I have Harbeth 30.1 in the home office and use it with the Raven Audio Blackhawk tube amp. I was generally satisfied with this combo. I also happen to have a Luxman 590 AXII driving SHL5+ in the main system. A few weeks ago I hauled the 30.1s to the media room and hooked them up to the Luxman. Needless to say, it smoked the Blackhawk in every aspect and then some more :)

What is it about the "low powered" SS class A amps that get such great results with Harbeths? I've read very positive feedback about Sugden and Luxman, and with my own experience, the Pass Int-25 delivers amazing realism through Shl5+'s. It would seem then that the blanket statement of Harbeths requiring more power to sound good is misleading. Don't want to start a war here, just my observation.

I currently have Harbeth 30.2 Anniversary Edition speakers and am using a Bryston B135 cubed integrated amplifier!  It's a perfect match and sounds awesome!  I highly recommend it!  

A dealer I trust recently told me he would be happy for a very long time with the 30.2’s paired with a Rogue Cronus Magnum III.  

I have Classe' CAM 200's driving my Harbeth 40.1's....very transparent

surprised no one has mentioned Vinnie Rossi L2i SE...I had the Hegel H590 and 40.2 anniversaries in a fairly small room and when I switched to the Rossi I never looked back...pretty amazing combination, IMO. If anything, given the 100W, its a touch light for the 40.2s, but would be ideal for the smaller Harbeths....one issue though---when using the internal DAC on the H590 it sounded better than going with an external DAC, and so the total investment was higher not to mention the pricier Rossi integrated by itself....

@pingpong I would imagine the Bryston sounds great.  I had a Bryston B100 with the C7es3s, and it was the best amp tried with them.

To correct myself long after the fact Rega Osiris not Isis their CD player. ;)

@voodoochillin -- keep in mind that both Luxman and Pass are known to understate their specs. The Luxman 590 AXII has been measured to be around 90 watts @ 8 ohms, which is significantly higher than the stated 30 watts. Also, Harbeths like current ... probably more so than watts.

Oh for sure. I’m just really curious how an amp with a really stout power supply which is necessary for a large class A envelope (but low-ish relative watts) drives these speakers so well. I don’t listen loud enough to get even close to the limits of the amp.

uncle paul helps with some important definitions and explanation of 'current vs watts'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfNoGVahHKg