Kevin gets the

"It does appear as though Cary is headed downstream since Dennis Had's departure."

I was agree with this. Most of the newer products definitely have that "made outside the USA" feel to them, and not in a good way.

I've listened to a few of them and was not impressed. I still think the SLP-05 is one of the best tube preamps of all-time however, so I'm not a Cary hater, in fact I owned one for several happy years.

Kevin rocks and so do my Primaluna monoblocks and NOS tubes. Straight up, no reservations. Besides being one of the few dealers that really understands tube electronics, he has exceeded my expectations with every purchase. He gives me sage advice on whether my hard earned dollars will be spent making truly audible differences and doesn't just move product. Lately I've been bugging him to sell me a recently released product and he has me on hold...until he has a chance to give it a good listen and his stamp of approval. And, he totally supports his local dealers, ensuring multiple layers of support for customers.

Yes sometimes he is busy and has to call you back, and always does in a timely manner. No he doesn't sell new equipment at used prices, and he shouldn't. Anyone who doesn't think Kevin is the coolest cat in home audio should check their egos at the door and start looking at their own manners.

Kevin was a complete gentleman with me, an under informed buyer who ended up returning two items and not making him any money. He was helpful in explaining tube concepts, and a professional about the business aspect. I was really impressed, and have wanted to say as much, and this would be that opportunity. He is TOP notch.

Chris Meserve

As an FYI, Cary only sells direct into markets where there are no dealers.

I do not see Cary headed downstream at all. Quite the opposite actually. Same great products as in the past (SLP98, SLP05, 805, 211, 120s, etc) with new digital models forthcoming (2 new DACS and a CD player). Also new models to compete on the "lower end" of the range with the AES gear (which is also built in the US).

***Cary dealer disclaimer***

Upscale Audio is no longer a Cary Audio dealer, though they do still have some closeout units in which the warranty is being honored. I purchased one of these a few months back. I think that Kevin dropped Cary when Cary decided to start selling direct, though I cannot say for sure how that marriage broke up.

I bought a SLP-98 from Kevin, just as Wescoman (Steve) did, but my unit has the internal phono stage (P) and has performed flawlessly so far. I have heard a lot of scary rumors about Cary customer service, but I know of other high end companies that I can attest to having poor service records.

It does appear as though Cary is headed downstream since Dennis Had's departure. They appear to be headed for the less expensive end of the high end spectrum, which is unusual as I watch the rest of the high end brands spiral ridiculously into the upper economic stratosphere. Most American companies seem to be racing to the upper price levels, meanwhile Cary seems to be wanting to go toe-to-toe with the Chinese market (Jolida, PrimaLuna, etc.) It will be interesting to see how this turns out for them.

Kevin still has a number of current Cary components listed, on his website. Dennis Had retired from Cary in Oct, 2009. Often; when the founder of a company retires, the quality/conscientiousness of same unfortunately suffers. I hate to think that's happened to Cary Audio. I love my(modded) SLM-100's!

I wasn't aware that Upscale Audio wasn't still selling Cary Audio Products.

Czbbcl,

Is that why Kevin doesn't have Cary anymore?

I had a similar experience with Cary as Wescoman did and will never buy any of their products again.

I have bought quite a few products from Kevin over the years. He has been nothing but helpful. Kevin has a very good ear and I have bought many items without ever hearing them. In all cases I was very satisfied. It's important to have a dealer you can communicate with, Kevin is an advanced audiophile so his skill set is a better match to other advanced audiophiles than he is to guys just kicking tires or new to the hobby.
I have known two trusted dealers in my 40 years in this hobby. Walt from Woodland Stereo and Kevin at Upscale Audio. Whenever I have a need, Kevin gets the first call. Thanks Kevin.

Dchang81,

It's better than getting kicked down the road which a lot of dealers do. They would tell you the problem is with Cary and deal with them. At least he exchanged the unit and made the customer happy. I'm no fan of Mr.Deal but I will say in this Instance he did the right thing.

Not really sure how him selling a defective product and exchanging it for one of his own is good service

Kevin is a great guy to work with. I've been purchasing equipment from him for several years now. I have nothing but praise in his ability to deliver and stand behind his products (even when the manufacturer won't). Here's a recent example. Three months ago, I bought a Cary SLP98L F1 edition preamp from him. I used it for one month before the problems started. Sent the defective unit to Cary, at my expense, for evaluation and repair. The unit was diagnosed with a faulty Audio 1 cap and other problems in the circuit. The tech rewired the unit direct coupled because he couldn't isolate or fix the underlying circuit problem. I thought, great. Shipped back to me. Within three weeks, SLP98L crapped out again. Spoke to Cary, told them enough was enough and I wanted a current production model of the same type and configuration shipped to me immediately. I also wanted them to email the UPS prepaid shipping label since I wasn't going to spend any more money on this unit. Cary told me to pack sand and work with my dealer (Kevin); I was going to do this anyway given the poor product build and inadequate customer support (from my perspective). For what I spent on the Cary SLP98L, they should have readily agreed to my request just to make up for the defective equipment. In any event, Kevin, to his credit, took the unit back, fully credited me with the entire purchase amount and set about the task of obtaining a brand new Mystere CA21 tube preamp. I used to own the Mystere CA11. Don't know why I ever sold that unit. Thought Cary Audio was light years ahead in product quality, sound, and customer support. Not so. The takeaway - Kevin is a quality person with high integrity who will back up his promises and deliver. That's why I never doubt making any purchase from him.

He has yet to address the rumors that he's an arsonist who hates the little children and leaves the seat up. He does owe a large "Thank You" to the 'Gone community for another avalanche of free publicity...you're welcome.

06-04-13: Upscaleaudio
"Wow....what a thread...here's a response kiddos... “

Note to high-end audio purveyors: This is how to respond to critical threads.

Kevin, I'm glad you pulled through those hard times, that gives me courage to try and pull through some tough things I'm going through at the present.

I want to thank you for advice you gave that improved the sound in my room without spending one red cent, and I've never been happier with any amp, as I am with my Primaluna mono blocks; I'm another one of your satisfied customers.

Kevin, very sorry to hear about your wife. The time period that you spoke about would have coincided with the conversation with my Dr. friend. I'm sure that would explain a lot and I will make sure to contact him and explain.
Hopefully, he will be a customer again. I will encourage him.

Kevin,

I'm really sorry to hear about your loss.

As to this thread, I suggest that you do your best to take it in perspective. Per my earlier post, enough transactions probably statistically guarantees some dissatisfied customers. I'd also argue that unhappy folks make disproportionately loud noise, relative to happy folks. That's just human nature. So, it is what it is.

Hang in and best of luck going forward.

Marty

Kevin

Sorry to hear of your loss that had to be very difficult to go through and something I hope I never have to experience. As far as expensive cars making you a bad person Absolutely Not! I wish I could afford a Ferrari and I also enjoy cars and motorcycles and audio and my dog.

I have had limited dealings with Upscale Audio(Cary SLI-80F1 and Assorted NOS Tubes)and they have always been positive experiences; can't say the same for Cary Audio.

Chuck

Completely agree with Ghasley, I have nothing but high praise for Mr. Deal. I think some of you folks have an agenda that is less than honest.

The conversation here is despicable. Deal is one of the best audio dealers out there. If you are going to do this to Deal, a good audio dealer, why don't you go after the real assholes in the audio community? I have interacted with audio personnel for over forty years, from NJ, NYC, DC, MD, Chicago, CA, NM and more. Some were great, many more not. Again, Kevin Deal is one of the best.

Kevin,

Nice to see you respond here and sorry that you have been so unfairly treated here by posters' insinuations.

Thanks for all the help that you gave me with my phono preamp.

And can we now kill this thread?

At least he has the balls to post! I'll give him credit for that.

Kevin,

You are A OK! Nothing wrong with a hard working SOB. Thanks for all your help with my used Primaluna.

kevins a first class guy.

Almost on a regular basis, someone starts a Kevin Deal thread and people come out of the woodwork giving their opinions. Like many other threads on this informative resource, it makes for interesting reading.
Kevin - thank you for jumping in and responding to the praises as well as the slings and arrows. My heart goes out to you for having suffered with your late wife. You are a unique businessman in a difficult industry who has survived and found his own niche. I wish you continued success.

Bryoncunningham, what an elequent way of stating your point of view, well said. I have reread your post and believe you have offered a reasonable and acceptable answer to Kevin's eccentricity which seems to appear at random with some callers. Thankyou for your post, it has been helpful!

I've bought 2 Prima Luna amps and a JL Audio sub from Kevin. I live in Southern California, so I've been to his showroom 3 times. I've spent about 2 hours total in his presence and talked with him on the phone maybe 7 times about a variety of things.

Having said all that, here's where I come out: Kevin isn't for everybody. He's a bit eccentric. His eccentricity doesn't both me, but I could see how it would bother other folks. There is a way to talk with Kevin that works, and a way that doesn't. If you think that's lousy customer service, I'm not going to argue with you.

I will say that, IME, it isn't that difficult to figure out the best way to talk to Kevin, and if you do, I've found him to be cooperative, friendly, and even amusing. I am very happy with the products he sold me and he gave me excellent deals 2 out of 3 times. Also, I had an issue arise concerning a credit card matter (that was not his fault in any way) and he was a gentleman about it. So, IMO, Kevin gets reasonably high marks for customer service.

Yes, he is quirky. Yes, he can be abrupt. But his occasional abruptness is worth the price of admission, IMO.

I respect that other people have different views, and I have no intention of trying to change anyone's mind.

Happy listening.

Bryon

06-03-13: Trelja
"Stereophile and TAS are more on the up and up than most of the internet review sites, which is where the true sleazebags live.”

Then we’re screwed.

I general, I want every business with whom I trade to do well....very well. Do I want a great deal, yes. Do I want great service, yes. Am I willing to pay extra so that when I have have a problem the business will assist me, absolutely.

Bigger picture, when did it become acceptable to hate on someone who has taken immense risk and been wildly successful? I don't get it. Where were the critics when Kevin was hiking through Europe every year, 20-30 years ago, with his life savings in his pocket buying all the tubes he could find? Wasn't solid state the answer....who would ever need to buy a tube again?

There are many who believe Kevin Deal deserves a great deal of credit for making tube electronics accessible by virtually anyone with a hifi budget. Even though my present system is not from Upscale, I have never been unhappy with a transaction and Kevin has gone above and beyond for me on numerous occassions. Kevin is however the kind of person who appreciates the finer things. Why not? He has no kids to send to college, he is kind to his employees, he appreciates finely made pieces of art.....whether that is hifi gear, fine automobiles, fine mechanical watches, amazing motorcycles or a carefully built tube from a bygone era.

Chill out....you don't think Kevin is a nice guy, then you haven't met the real Kevin.....AND....if you think his advertising makes the difference in him getting a review then what about last month....the month before.....five years ago....10 years ago.....? Your premise that his advertising pressures the magazines to review his gear is laughable. If that were true then he advertises SO MUCH, SO FREQUENTLY that if that logic were applied every product he wanted reviewed would get it. He has achieved enough where he doesnt have to deal in marginal product AND his longevity does give him some credibility doesnt it? Oh well, be jealous of something besides the spoils of free enterprise.

Wow....what a thread...here's a response kiddos.

1. TAS and Stereophile are hardly going to try to print the same review of the same product. They are competitors. Dick Olsher saw the DiaLogue Premium at CES, liked the sound, and asked to review it. FYI...he gave one of our products a review I DIDN'T like (The Mystere PA21, which I use personally and love so much). I think he has a prejudice against Pentode design amps so we didn't stand a chance. Sam Tellig had heard a buzz about the DiaLogue Premium and asked to review it. Most manufacturers beg him for a review. I didn't.

2. Do advertising $$$$ equal reviews? All you have to do is read the smokin' hot reviews of brands nobody has heard of, with zero advertising, that most likely will go out of business and there is your answer. Reviewers seek out the unheard of, and pick what they want to review. I advertise in the print mags because I like them and want them to stay in business, and can afford to do so. Does that mean they treat me nicer? For months Stereophile couldn't even get me a copy of the magazine in a timely manner.

3. Am I a prick? I treat most everybody very well. Not 30 minutes ago a fellow asked me to check my e-mail to look at pictures of tubes he bought off Craigslist and wanted to know how much he should sell them for. FYI I like this guy so tried to help him. But do you know how many guys want me to tell them what to bid on an auction? Or how to fix a damaged shipping or defective product they bought off Audiogon? If your so cool post your phone number here and I will shift some of the burden to you. Goldenear 1948 doesn't give his name and his profile is private. He can say anything he wants and has. (I don't believe his story about a dead tube as I have a reputation for standing behind my products.) This will probably piss people off but most of my time-burning phone calls come from Audiogon which is why we no longer advertise here.

Having said that, a few years ago I had a short fuse as my wife had Multiple Sclerosis and I was working six days a week, fighting with doctors and insurance companies, overseeing four caregivers, trying to beat back death, and wondering why her. She died and that was a hard ride that wasn't clean. So if you were caught in that crossfire I'm sorry.

Let's see...anything else? Expensive cars make you a bad person? I work hard and my business has been successful. I had a Porsche 914 at 18yo and a BMW 2002 at 24. But I got my first REAL W-2 job at 12 years old and nothing was handed to me. Cars are my passion like motorcycles, music, hifi, and my dog. It's just stuff. I wish I would have had a couple kids, but that wasn't possible.

Marqmike, Why not respectable and fair?."warm and fuzzy" is a deragatory inference..don't decide what all of us want bully boy.

My dealings with Deal were very positive, his is a pro on his products and services. He stays in business to help those that need what he has. How he does that is up to him. He is pretty patient with those that don't just call up to show the breeze. Thanks Kevin. We need more people like Kevin to run other things in society today. He gets the job done and right the first time. His is not warm and fuzzy. He is from what I can tell something more important, honest and very fair. Who wants warm and fuzzy when getting stereo equipment raise your hands. That's what I thought.

" What does driving a Ferrari have to do with customer service" Absolutely nothing. I know a dealer that rides a bicycle to work and he will give you better customer service than Deal ever will.

I don't get it. Deal offers a good line of products and he stands behind what he sells. Bottom line, that all that really counts. You want warm and fuzzy, ego (yours) enhancing conversations from a merchant don't go there. You want product AND service, and know what you want, check Upscale out.

By contrast I'm the 'proud' owner of 2 amps (not sold by Deal, but made by the same parent company in the same factory under a different brand name/contract), which are still being manufactured. Both experienced identical failures which disabled the units within two weeks of each other. They are out of warranty though. I'm unable to get the warm and fuzzy distributor to either furnish me with the parts needed to repair, nor to take the amps in and fix them himself. Been 3 1/2 months. Lots of alibis, zero follow thru! To use these now I need a boat.

This kind of experience is why I have dealt with Deal in the past and will do so in the future. And yes, I have had a confrontation with him over an internet post I made about one of his products. He subsequently contacted my by phone and apologized for his rather intemperate response.

FWIW, IMHO, most who complain about Deal's conduct can trace this to his conclusion from their conversation that the caller is an uninformed tire kicker who is wasting his time. From all of the recommendations I see in this forum, and others as well, to folks about tubes to call Deal, I assume his phone was ringing off the hook by folks without a clue.

Give it a break, he is a merchant, not your buddy, not your priest, nor your mother.

Upscale Audio is a successful dealership that obviously has staying power in a volatile industry.

Roscoeii, and others, there is almost never a "consensus" when audiophiles discuss any subject in these or any forums. But, there is an obvious tendency of the owner of Upscale Audio to allow his personality to become somewhat abrasive and less than courteous in his communication style, depending on his mood at the time. I am certain of that. That was my experience, and others have commented here and elsewhere.

There are also plenty of nice guys in audio who get written about frequently in the forums.

I have a friend who asked Kevin what Cryo'ed tubes were. Boy, was that a mistake! After a complete talking down to, my friend ( who happens to be a Dr.) was left with such a bad taste in his mouth he took his biz elsewhere. To the tune of buying $50K in gear, LOL.
Kevin may understand tubes, BUT he sure does not understand how to communicate with a customer. I think the several posts above are plenty of proof of this. The question one could ask, is why does he have such a chip on his shoulder?? Attitude adjustment would go a long way. OTOH, IF you are succeeding in spite of yourself, I guess who cares!

Wow, I am shocked at the ill will here. "Put clowns like this out of business"? C'mon.

I am certainly not seeing "a consensus in the comments" and certainly not a consensus that backs up claims with evidence.

How Kevin decides to conduct his business, price his products or spend his money is up to him. And we can then choose to do business with him or not. Pretty simple.

How did this turn into a Kevin Deal bashing thread? I was under the impression that the central theme was how advertising controls what is written in glossy rags. Upscale Audio is only one advertiser, they ALL do it!

As for my dealings with Kevin, I will admit that he is not warm and fuzzy, and that his "people skills" may be lacking, but he is an honest and reliable dealer, and they are far and few between.

I was looking to grab one of his closeout SLP-98P F1 earlier this year, and spoke with him on the phone. I wanted a unit that had a custom paint job, but it sold for more than the standard red chassis finish, and I didn't want to pay more. He was not very helpful on the phone, so I just ordered the lesser model from his website. Then he called me and told me that the standard model I ordered from his website was not available with the MC phono option that I ordered, so he offered me the custom painted one that I wanted in the first place at a $500 discount....lower price than the standard finish unit. I took it and I am very happy with the deal.

Meanwhile, a friend of mine also picked up one of the closeout SLP-98 F1 units from Upscale Audio. He has had a lot of problems in just over 2 months with his unit. He shipped it to Cary once for repairs, when he got it back it worked great....for three weeks. Then it screwed up again. He wanted a new unit from Cary, claiming he bought a lemon. Cary was of no assistance. When he told Kevin Deal of this problem, Kevin offered to give him full trade in value towards any other item he offered. My friend gladly jumped on this opportunity. I think that shows tremendous character of Kevin Deal.

So no, he may not have the best people skills in the business, but he is honest and reliable. If I have to chose who I want to do business with, I'd prefer to do business with Kevin Deal over a smooth talking bull-shit artist.

The point I was trying to make is that he's obviously very successful doing things the way he has been doing them.

Drubin-There are many dealers that really care about music, the quality of their products they sell and most importantly their customers(regardless of how much they spend). From my very limited experience with Upscale and the consensus of the comments, Upscale is all about profit. Remember we have the power to put clowns like this out of business. Then the only time Kevin gets near a Ferrari is by parking or washing one!

Drubin.... What does a narcissistic display of a Ferrari have to do with good customer service... I have been in business for forty years and my ego doesn't show up at work.

Not sure if they are still on AudioReview.com, but for a long time there were many "reviews" of Kevin's lines that all mentioned Upscale Audio. The funny thing is that the writing style for all of the reviews was identical...same phrases, sentence structure, style, etc. They were like reading an UA add. I do not know they were ghost written, but they sure sounded like it. Hmm.

Over the last ten years I've purchased a ton of tubes, Cary Cd, Prima Luna Monos, SF Cremonas, and a bunch of other stuff from Kevin. He's never been less than 100% straight up with me. I guess that over enough time and enough transactions things are bound to go south somewhere, but IME your odds of satisfaction with Kevin are significantly higher than with most audio retailers.

Marty

At T.H.E. Show in Newport this past weekend, I was admiring Kevin's Ferrari, prominently parked in front of the Hilton every day. He had an excellent two-room exhibit and great sound. Not sure he needs to make any changes.

i have dealt with kevin many times on tubes and trading equipment and his service has always been first class.

Roscoeiii...Kevin did finally gave me a charge credit after implying that it was my fault ( somehow ) for the dead tubes. Before he gave me the credit, he tried to hustle me into the "deal of a century" on a preamp that he no doubt wanted to unload. I think that the hustle bothered me more than the initial belligerence re: a charge credit. The odd thing is that on several earlier occasions he couldn't have been more helpful and informative.

Kevin needs to hire someone that can provide customer service without an attitude. His people skills aren't very good.

At upscale, where is that nice polite lady that sometimes answers the phone. Maybe Kevin should let her handle the phone calls and he could spend his time in the back room packing and shipping and or screwing tubes in the tube tester for the purpose of evaluating and matching.

YEP! With Kevin; price is a, "No-Fly Zone!" I've only ever dealt with him on octets of power tubes(since 1994). When he was carrying NOS 6550 Sylvanias; his prices were not out of line. Ditto with his new 6550 Winged 'C's. A year ago, I called about an eight year old NOS Clearaudio Sigma Wood(not a highly regarded cart, anyway), for which he was asking close to original list. Very friendly conversation, until I hinted at price flexibility(based on age). Glad I purchased an octet of NOS, 70's, 6550C GE's elsewhere, before that call. But, hey: It IS his business, after all!

Goldenear,

This is the first I am hearing about these "dead tubes" on this thread.

Not sure what the problem was there, but the Upscale website clearly states: "Vacuum tubes are warranted for 90 days against defects, except in cases of abuse, and replaced with like-item only."

Still waiting on any evidence to suggest that Kevin and Upscale isn't ethical.

Let's stay away from these types of claims, along with insinuation and conspiracy theories without having proof to back these up.