Great post thanks!

Merry christmast..

@mahgister 

I've studied the subject for 30 years, my friend.  And I don't think I want to invest in another hundred hours of grad studies, so don't expect me to "...go back to school..." any time soon.   Merry Christmas, peace, brother.

 

First i apologize for my perhaps rude answer...I am too passionnate sometimes or to be honest most of the times... 😊

Second i am curious, why speaking about the spirit concept being bogus?

Third i thank you for your patience with me...

If you dont answer i will understand...

I wish you from my heart the best there is...

and also peace to you....

Merry Christmast

nolojunko

30 posts

12-24-2021 9:36pm

@mahgister

I’ve studied the subject for 30 years, my friend. And I don’t think I want to invest in another hundred hours of grad studies, so don’t expect me to "...go back to school..." any time soon. Merry Christmas, peace, brother.

School begins anew upon awakening in the morning.

N may have been the last of the romantics. There is a noble aspect in complete materialism in its philosophical definition. As to M and Blake they may be tilting at windmills. Impossible to know with certainty what any repercussions may be with any technology. I for one am glad for a bunch of technology, but concerned as to how the majority responds to all the images and data bombarding them from so many directions. Nature is a salve but does not address a root cause that may be impossible to define. A windmill.

Neither math nor poly.

First there is no noble or vile aspect about materialism...This is meaningless speaking...

Materialism is very easy to understand if we hove hover the history of consiousness and philosophy...I cannot explain it all here... Suffice to say that one of the main philosophical conditions to create a technological HUBRIS "progress" is nominalism.. Study what it is...NOMINALISM DESTROY PARTICIPATION... It is not vile nor noble , it is a subconscious spiritual incrementally unfolding movement from Aristotle to Ockham, an event which ask to be compensate CONSCIOUSLY to keep a spiritual equilibrium, a balance... Is it not simple to understand?

Why ?

Chinese people invented EVERYTHING to be invented BEFORE europeans till the 16 century... This is pure non debatable historical facts...Read Joseph Needham encyclopedia...

Why then China never produced the swift hubris "progress" linked with systematic powerful transformation of life and industry like in Europe? If you say that they were inferior in intelligence let me say to you that you are dead wrong...

I cannot explain all factors but i can pointed to this evident fact: a more BALANCED metaphysical EMBODIED relation with nature pervade all china culture ....Other powerful factors are linked to scripture and ideogrammatic versus alphabet language POWERFUL EFFECT ...I cannot enter in this here...

It is this balanced relation with nature that is destroyed by occidental industrialization in three centuries like described by Blake and many others... Look at the world around you......

Second point: If we cannot know what are precisely the effect of ONE technology in time , we know for sure were all technologies go RIGHT NOW: transhumanist cult of technology which consider the human animal WORKABLE not only economically, psychologically, and politically like Mandeville demonstrated but workable in his BODY...Genetic modifications for example...Read the interview with a scientist i posted above...destruction of natural agriculture, destruction of natural and human medecine, destruction of alimentation etc...CENTRALIZED AGRICULTURE’ ALIMENTATION, MEDECINE and Total control...

It is not Mandeville or William Blake who chase windmills it is you, blind to which is plain to see...I am flabbergasted by the complete ignorance of the soul, the body, the freedom, the dignity of nature, the complete forgetting and oversight of human participation to nature and the nature participation in your own body...

Third point: I am also glad about technology, i am not a luddite...My point is not to go back to cavern but to BREAK FREE OF THE CORPORATE CONTROL OF TECHNOLOGY ....

But Godddam who do you think control ALL technology on earth and for whose benefits?

You are the dude who chase the windmill created by the corporates sleepwalking publicities sorry...Not N. nor Blake nor Mandeville...

Calling Blake or Mandeville useless idiots, deluded one, chasing windmills only reveal the abyssal ignorance where you are complacent...Have you never be HUMBLED by geniuses? Any undertanding of any genius put us in a humble awareness... Only ignorant people consider themselves on par with genius...

Any true student is in constant AWE by genius...Saying that this one or this other one chase widmills means NOTHING....

Do you read news out of the official void and meaningless public journals ?

If my words seems rude think about the way you treat great men putting them aside without even knowing them and claiming to be right...

Ignorance is not an excuse, neurons may work without all information....

I am flabbergasted by the indifference and the complete lightness of some soul in the midst of one of this great world crisis and suffering...

 

School begins anew upon awakening in the morning.

N may have been the last of the romantics. There is a noble aspect in complete materialism in its philosophical definition. As to M and Blake they may be tilting at windmills. Impossible to know with certainty what any repercussions may be with any technology. I for one am glad for a bunch of technology, but concerned as to how the majority responds to all the images and data bombarding them from so many directions. Nature is a salve but does not address a root cause that may be impossible to define. A windmill.

Neither math nor poly.

What a silly read on this Christmas of 2021. I have worked long and hard to buy the gear to build my system. And now that I'm retired I shall enjoy the music my system brings forth. 

It's even sillier to post about something silly.

Enjoy your retirement.

@ mahgister - Thanks much for your latest response to me.  I'm all good, so no problem.  I also often regret my passions :) 

Second, in a forum such as this, it's a real challenge to adequately express complex philosophical, ethical, religious (spirit-ual) concepts, considering the nature of the medium and its audience.  In retrospect, maybe doing so is a fool's errand.

RE: N's use of the term/concept of "spirit" seems to me to be quite different from the Hebrew as used by the ancients (I have studied Hebrew), from which you make reference.  It would have been more helpful and clear had I effectively engaged this particular quibble. But again, the nature of the forum is challenging when attempting to engage even such limited scope.

All that said, Hilde does make an interesting and potentially profitable observation by posing the question he does - just in terms of an ethical consideration some may wish to ponder.  I'm merely observing that, perhaps, utilizing N does more to confuse or obscure the matter for interested readers than provide clarity necessary for arriving at a more mature understanding of the matter.  

Great post!

You are right about everything in your remarks...

But going back to the Dyonysian experience which inspire Nietszche and his sacred festivities but especially going back to the Mysteries Sacred schools experiment like in Eleusis, which was a center of sprit around for all people of the mediterranean sea, we realized the experience of spirit in Greece is not completely foreing to the ancient hebrew "ruach" perception and experience....

The intimate participation to the spirit mimic one another in Greek and Jews and in all cultures anyway , the spirit experience ultimately is the same, think about NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCE for example or out of the body experiences, but the way to express it and partipate to nature differ...

One of the best book on that is Peter Kingsley "reality"....Jews civilization of the Alexandrine period and after it is way more nearer to the Greek that  what we had learned in our younger days...

Alexandria was the cosmopolitan Paris/ Newyork of the ancient world and jews scholars meets there with Greeks even were influenced by Greek thought on a level underestimated completely 50 years ago..

lIsten to this scholar takes about Alexandria era....

Plato All the Way Down: Solving Biblical Mysteries with Russell Gmirkin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsL7m6VSNTM&t=4995s

Just a meaningful anecdote: Egyptian priesthood at the bibliotheca of Alexandria, the biggest in the world collected all documents of ANY political constitution or about philosophy and science they coud grap... They ask Corinthians for example give us your city constituion written document, we will copy it and return you back, in the mean time we will send you a gold warrenty for sure... Corinthians obeyed and accepted the gold send their constitution; but after some years, the Egyptians never answering the Corenthians demands for the retrurn, said keep the gold we keep the constitution and we will send you a copy.... That speak a lot about their passionate urge to collect EVERYTHING ....They ask jews scholars what are your people think about God, your history , etc wrote it for us and we will keep it in the bibliotheca... Guess what comes from it? It is Gmirkin well researched thesis...

 

Humans of all culture are way more similar to one another that they ever think they are, but they dont understand it, they dont want to know it, and they do all they can to prove this wrong...The experience of the spirit is the SAME all over the world, but the way we participate to nature is not....

Humans are connected by the heart and separated by the body....

 

 

 

We must speak sometimes to one another from a wider perspective like the OP wisely suggest...

 

But you are right also for sure in some way about this perilous tentative...

Second, in a forum such as this, it’s a real challenge to adequately express complex philosophical, ethical, religious (spirit-ual) concepts, considering the nature of the medium and its audience. In retrospect, maybe doing so is a fool’s errand.

In the course to prove that they are much different than one another people buy artefacts, and create new one for the sake of the difference and feel then different at least if not superior...

This is a UNIVERSAL trends...

People are connected by the heart and differ by their bodies...

The spirit experience is the same all over the world but the way this experience manifest itself through the body and through our participation of nature differ...

Now read what Nietszche said:

«Only he who has spirit ought to have possessions: otherwise possessions are a public danger. »

Is it not clear?

Read audio thread where people vouch about gear forgetting the essential key to the experience: acoustic and psycho-acoustic....They think an amplifier is more important than the acoustic link between the gear/room/ears...

In audio experience it is not the possession that define the experience it is acoustic and psycho-acoustic law because the sound/music experience is the same, based on the same science, but artefacts differ and the way this experience manifested itself may differ...

 

 

 

«Why do you put your ears near the speakers my friend? I listen to my amplifier»-An audiophile dialogue in inferno

«My amplifier sound way better than my speakers»- An audiophile thinking about an upgrade

«With my electronic equalizer i created the sound i want to taste each passing minute nevermind the music» an anonymus DSP engineer audiophile

«This dac will sound marvellous in ANY room, with ANY gear, and for ANY ear » a seller

«Cables makes a difference ...NO not at all, cables makes no differences... But wait a minute tubes certainly did? i prefer S.S.» Audiophiles arguing

«Keep the room but changes the fuses» An audiophile

«My audio system reproduce exactly the lived original event no doubt!» An anonymus audiophile

«High end costly gear makes a difference in your pocket more than in S.Q. if you dont study physical acoustic and psycho-acoustic »-Myself

 

«I love Wagner»-Nietszche 1868

« Wagner is nuisible »-Nietszche 1888

«Sound is like the body, it can die, but the music stay anyway»-Groucho Marx🤓

«If you know how to whistle anyway you dont need a stereo system»-Roger Whitaker

«Music is beautiful!»- Helen Keller mute,deaf and blind

 

 

«We dont know what the sound/music relation is, anybody pretending to know is a fool, sound is an experience not an equation» A mathematician by formation which is also one of the greatest maestro and one of the greatest philosopher of the 20 th century which i will not name here because this citation is my own interpretation of his 1200 pages book on music experience history...

 

«Only 2 sounds resonated through all the universe in 1945: the explosion of Hiroshima and the AUM sound, extraterrestrial notice the first with the help of the other»- an anonymus whistleblower from secret program..

«Without air no music and no sound» -A physicist

«Sound need air like a fire need wood»- an alchemist

« Music need silence more than sound need air»-a musician

«Bats, blind people, and dolphins see  bodies qualities  with sounds; our spoken words are perhaps way more than we think they are» -Anonymus Smith 

 

«The importance of sound or of silence is way more exagerated»- a yogi

 

William James Sidis is so highly intelligent that his life is UNBELIEVABLE, for example:

Given IQ is a purely anthropocentric means of assessing intelligence, Sidis’ IQ is crudely estimated at 250-300.
Mastered higher mathematics and planetary revolutions by age 11.
Learned to spell efficiently by one year old.
Started reading The New York Times at 18 months.
Read Caesar’s Gallic Wars, in Latin (self-taught), as a birthday present to his Father in Billy’s fourth year.
Learned Greek alphabet and read Homer in Greek in his fourth year.
Learned Aristotelian logic in his sixth year and said to his mother thay he regret to have not studied logic BEFORE... 😊
At six, Billy learned Russian, French, German, and Hebrew, and soon after, Turkish and Armenian.
Learned Gray’s Anatomy at six. Could pass a student medical examination and enter University in medecine because it was the high bar at these times...
Total recall of everything he read.
Wrote four books between ages of four and eight. Two on anatomy and astronomy, lost.
Passed Harvard Medical School anatomy exam at age seven.
Passed MIT entrance exam at age eight.
Attempted to enroll in Harvard at nine.But he was too SHORT in body...
In 1909, became youngest student to ever enroll at Harvard at age 11.
Billy graduated from Harvard, cum laude, on June 24, 1914, at age 16. He teach mathematical texts in their original languages but cannot be taken seriously by students many years older than he was...
Billy entered Harvard Law School in 1916.
Billy could learn a whole language in one day!
Billy knew all the languages (approximately 200) of the world, and could translate among them instantly! At 16 years old he was in Anarchist society and he was spoken translator for all languages...
He wrote a book i read under 20 years old "The animate and the inanimate" where he predicted the existence of black hole before Oppenheimer and Chandrasekhar paper and the existence of non living organic matter in the universe with thermodynamical deep  reflections...
He wrote a book "the states and the Tribes"where he reflected about the origin of democracy in America and the Indian and explain their origin...Anyway he know all Indian languages because it wasa passion of his own and he was able to decipher the quipus of south america...
At 11 years at Harvard in 1910 he give a conference about the projection of four dimensional body in 3 D space and he answer question about the New Einstein theory... All is written ...

 

Now what is the main point about Sidis:

To liberate himself from celebrity and exploitation he deecide to be recluse

And exclude all art, sex, and MUSIC of his life... All the feminine asect of life and he lived in his head with few friends but alone in hiding...

Conclusion: Art, love, music is the salt of life and if a man lack of them his soul stiffen...Any man need a woman...

Sidis never touch a woman save one by the hand ONE time in his life at 16 years of age and keep his image on himself all his life even after this woman marry an pother man... He lived without art nor love....Save in his head...

The story of Sidis is so incredible than a biography of his life EXCEED science fiction...

The proof: i read Olaf Stapledon novel of a superhuman man in intelligence "odd John" a very interesting novel about intelligence i read long ago..

The incredible fact is the real Sidis exceed by a huge margin "ood john" himself in precocity and talents ... Why ? Because any novel must stay plausible and credible to be trusted and believed...

 

My point is music convey the spirit which keep our soul alive and keep off our body from drying perhaps....

My other point we are all unequal in gift but if someone here think he is more intelligent than all the others here i will recommend that he read sidis life and this will humble him ....

There is a deep mathematical theorem about the way a set of points are all near one another by relation to a fixed chosen point...

Sidis is my fixed chosen point then we are all equal here in intelligience or near so...

😊😊😊😊😊😊

merry Christmast

 

 

 

I forgot to say that Sidis even surpassed Norbert Wiener, himself an ex-child prodigy, whom he knows at Harvard because the created together a club of geniuses with only 3 members...( the other being the music composer Roger Sessions if my memory is good)

Norbert Wiener created Cybernetics by himself or old A.I , and make deep discoveries in mathematics and in physics like the late Janos von Neumann...But unlike Neumann the sympathetic Wiener refuse to speak to anyone who worked for the military... Think about that....A commoon point with Sidis who declare at 11 years old that he will take the SACRED VOUCH to never invented ANY technology because humanity is too war-like and dont understand society ( save some Indians tribes Sidis considered more advanced)

Believe it or not by the precocity of talents and the mastering of fields at young age , Sidis Exceed these two, Wiener and Neumann who worked among other thing the FIRST architecture of computers and who were the most gifted scientist in the world ....

A last point how do we know Sidis I.Q. ?

He lived before the second world war at a times where all government job necessitate testing routine I.Q. formulary , and at each new job he was tested and sometimes recognized because he was over any testable scale in I. Q. He quitted often many jobs because he hate to be named a "genius" after his own mother exploitation and his father bragging and stricted education...His I.Q. is only guessed by putting him out of the scale at least with 250....And probably 300 which is two times the minimal number usually associated with genius : 145...

He worked sometimes with 2 mechanical additive computer , one for each hand, and like it because he said i can think at the same time... 😊

His father spoke more than 20 languages, i think 24, wrote 17 books and was considered one of the greatest psychiatrist and psychologist in America with his friend William James who gives his name to the Sidis baby... He taught medecine to his uneducated future wife and euclidean geometry before marrying her , she was herself a genius they married and decided to train their baby... The rest is history...

 

Do you know why i quit reading S-F novel long ago?

Reality exceed fiction in miracles and mysteries....Reality dont ask to be believed first and last ...

I apologize to the OP for my long posts ...

It is the first time of my life that i was alone at Christmast... My wife is with his old mother and his sister is ill...

Stay safe in this time of isolation....

Well wishes your way @mahgister you are never alone!

 

Reality exceed fiction in miracles and mysteries....Reality dont ask to be believed first and last ... @mahgister

I don’t think you need to apologize to the OP, I highly suspect this thread has way exceeded his expectations. And I, personally, love to read your posts. None of us are really alone here, now are we?

Peace and joy to you this Christmas, my friend

Unable to solve all our divisions , a new division comes to the front soon, and i cannot think otherwise than thinking about the Sidis sacred vouch to not create new technology because mankind cannot live wisely and in peace now...

Perhaps Sidis was not the failed dreamer some said he was...But a true spiritual genius at the end...

Read me right i am not for the return into the cave with hunter gatherers... But ask yourself who will control this new "intelligence" who will surpass mankind by being a "hive-like intelligence" ?

How we, who participate and partake into something living and spiritual with air, water, earth soil, trees, animals and angels, will share the earth with "something" who dont need air, water, earth soil,trees,animals or angels, especially if this "something" own a kind of intelligence surpassing any humans but without body, save mechanical parts, no soul, and no spirit...

Think about that.... Only transhumanists cultists are not frightened...They fear death...I dont fear death but i fear robots....

Now think about Nietszche WARNING again: «Only he who has spirit ought to have possessions: otherwise possessions are a public danger.»

Who will own A.I. ? If we dont have spirit perhaps A. I. will own us at last...Our artefact will destroy us in some way...

Or perhaps A. I. will be controlled by the like of Gates and Bezos and the unknown one and others "benefactors" of mankind who will say to us: "WE Gates/Bezos/Musk have spirit, you mankind had LESS, i know better than doctors or scientists, or better than yourself and my life work is the proof because at last i work for the well being of mankind ..."

Did you not smell a bit of hubris and stupidity here?

I smell it...

Thanks 

tunefuldude and ghasley to be my "advocates"...

I wish you more than the best....

@mahgister Think about that.... Only transhumanists cultists are not frightened...They fear death...I dont fear death but i fear robots....

+1

 

I consider it nearly an art form, in itself, to remain at peace while the craziness of the world unfolds around us ... music helps a lot

 

You are right my friend!

 

I am a bit disapointed that NO ONE look at the documentary about one of the MOST extraordinary DOCUMENTED event of the last century with ALL the redacted testimonies of thousand of people who lived through the events for many years...

Some narrow mind claim that miracles dont exist only Newton laws revised by Einstein and Planck...

The Bruno Groening event in Germany before and after the 2 wars falsify that opinion...

Like in the Sidis case reality here exceed any fiction...This Groening repeat Christ miracles, testified by doctors, filmed, photographed and curing crowds by thousands numbers and at distance... No novelist will dare to create a so less credible and unbelieveble story...

His end meet the fateful  end of Christ...Humankind is immature  and many  technocrat are "monsters", and like predicted by Dostoievsky they will emprisonned and tortured the Christ himself if he dare to come anew... With Brunon Groening the Dostoievsky thought experiment in the "great inquisitor dialogue" was proven right to the letter... Verify the story by yourself...

 

I dont think that this miraculous man could be debunked by anyone... this is history... The reason why i post it is tho suggest to some that the universe will never be reduced to our narrow science conceptions and like just said the contrite string theorist Edward Witten perhaps the universe is not here to be only understood at our convenience...

i will make the link anew here, anyway this more than 3 hours documentary is moving and my christmast gift to all...

There is 3 parts this is the first one....

Listen to this you will not regret.....

 

 

 

FICTION DONT HOLD A CANDLE TO REALITY...

And sorry for scientists here miracles indeed exist....

Anyway even if most scientists dont know it yet, number theory is not " logical" or akin to human desire and taste, and number theory is itself a miracle not a simple tool created by apes like materialist will claim ... The miracles of mathematics and of prime numbes distribution meaning is described by the great mathematician Shinichi Mochizuki in the last 10 years, creating a worldwide controversy in mathematics that is not yet officially settled...

I like mathematics especially number theory, sorry....

 

The Bruno Groening story is really a deep parable about Health, medecine, corporations, and freedom...

In the actual crisis cheap medecines were trashed and FORBIDDEN by law..Killing drug inforced by law (remdesivir)

The freedom to care and the free relation between doctor and patient cancelled and subordinated to the state like under Stalin even in my supposedly free country Canada ...yes......In france people are on the street....

Now imagine a man who can heal instantaneously and without asking any money erasing any disease in a person or in a crowd ... For many doctors it will be humiliating and a big loss of money... He should be stop at all cost ... He was...

Now imagine this man today amidst a pandemy.... He would have been killed perhaps by corporations , not legally stopped like in 1950...

This Groening parable not only is a true moving story reminding us of the parable of the Christ return in Dostoievsky "the great inquisitor " but the most deep story to be told nowadays among the general fear mongering and blind politicians and monster corporations...

We live an interesting century in all fields:

Spiritually,

in economy, in physics, in mathematics, in medecine, in technology in general, in politics i cannot list all fields, all fields are affected at the same time by a complete revolution... my own quest is : what is the relation between each revolution in each fields and the global revolution on earth ....

Amazing...

I want to live to see the next....And i hope to perceive the beginning of the answer to the riddle of man ascent or descent...

 

«All great men are refined sismograph whose variations indicated the tremors level in the world»-Anonymus smith

«But the greatest among them heal and pacify the world»-Anonymus smith

 

«Animals heal us already and trees could heal the planet»-Anonymus Smith

 

«Anyway i only trust robot, they dont eat, dont bark and ask for anything not even water»-Groucho Marx 🤓

 

The problem with Asimov robotic laws to insure that robot will put human life by programmation above their own security, it is that is impossible to implement them...We can create Goedel machine that will increase their own power at one condition: they will master their OWN continuously increasing universe by reducing the existing one to be only materials to satisfy their needs... In this universe man will be a useless piece of matter.... the earth will be only an artificial space ship for the A. I. No need of air or even water...This is mathematical, the Goedel machine is artificially expanding yes but closed in itself......An artificial intelligence by definition is artificial, unconnected save externally to anything outside it.... Man and any living system are internally connected...

In a specific sense man and dogs or elephants partake the same form of CONNECTED intelligence... A.I. is another form of "intelligence" more akin to an eternal cube of increasing ice...

Transhumanist cultist fearing death adore a god which is death himself...

«Who is more intelligent than the angel of death anyway...»-Anonymus smith

« Play chess with me»- Ingmar Bergman Death angel 

 

Now in the " seventh seal " one of the greatest film ever made, there is a word that struck me : "if the devil exist God must exist too"...

The greatest logician after Aristotle is certainly Goedel who designed for himself a new proof about the existence of God around the Anselm proof.. It is called Goedel ontological argument....

I will not go in the proof details, and the meaning of the axioms here, because it is astonishingly abstract, and not necessary to describe my take about it...One critic of the proof made a great observation ...

From wiki:

«Many philosophers have called the axioms into question. The first layer of criticism is simply that there are no arguments presented that give reasons why the axioms are true. A second layer is that these particular axioms lead to unwelcome conclusions. This line of thought was argued by Jordan Howard Sobel,^[12] showing that if the axioms are accepted, they lead to a "modal collapse" where every statement that is true is necessarily true, i.e. the sets of necessary, of contingent, and of possible truths all coincide (provided there are accessible worlds at all).^{[note 6]} According to Robert Koons,^{[9]: 9} Sobel suggested in a 2005 conference paper^{[citation needed]} that Gödel might have welcomed modal collapse.^{[13] »}

 

 

What struck me was the fact that Goedel would have welcome the "modal collapse"... What it is ? it is the fact that a proof of God, if it was a valid one logically will place all contingent, necessary, and possible truths on the same footing, they will all coincide or converge...

This remind me of the existence of the Goedel machine theory by one of the father of A.I. Jurgen Schmidhuber, his Goedel machine will live in a world were anything will be processed to be a convergent center of autodesign , where the contingent, the necessary and the possible will be FORCE to coincide like on a Procustean bed nourishing an infinite progess of automodification toward an indefinte intelligent perfection...

https://arxiv.org/abs/cs/0309048

Then what is my point?

Simple the existence of A. I. and of the Goedel machine POINTED TO THE POSSIBLE existence of pure evil because where all living phenomena ask for maintaining the difference between the possible, the necessary and the contingent and for which , the possible, the contingent and the necessary must never be reduced to unity in a modal collapse...For evil it is the goal itself...

LOVE OPEN ALL POSSIBLE, DEATH which is not evil close them for a moment but EVIL WANT TO CLOSE ALL POSSIBLE FOR ETERNITY...

Then If A.I. exist and for me after study it exist, God must exist also...

Goedel never realized that the God he wanted to prove to exist was never the God of love the loving God, but pure evil , and a hive super-consciousness reducing all living possibles to his dead end iced will......

 

Now think about what Goethe said....

«There is no theory behind the phenomena, the phenomena are the theory» -Goethe

This means that man can contemplate the mysteries and educate his own mind to seize them as complementary interprenetrating MYSTERIES, but man MUST not and anyway will never be able to realize what only EVIL can do reducing all living phenomena to a dead theory external to them...

Goethe is a deeep well.... Even more wise than the super human Goedel intellect...

This is the difference between spirit and mere intellect....

 

 

«All your words are non sense, we cannot prove that love exist nor disprove it, save for  my lovely  wife »-Groucho Marx 🤓

Goedel was not playing chess with death like the medieval crusader in the film , but he played against himself unbeknownst to him... This part of ourself which is impersonal pure possible evil: cold ice mechanical logic...

Mathematics itself is not logical and is not LOGIC, it is a work of love, all possible and contingencies, and necessities are preserved by the living universal imagination...The translation of all possible worlds in one another maintain freedom and choices... Goedel Famous incompletude theorems speak about mathematics being a a growing infinite living cellulars organism flowering structure born from love ... not a logical uncompleted frozen tree...

Logic is one of the tool with which man studies forms and numbers and abstract infinite language...Language is also a tool to study mathematics...Art is a tool...

nature is a tool.... Our imagination is the main tool....Computers are a tool also...

But A.I. computerized proving machine and survey will never create meaning.... meaning are always also mystereies and not only known significations...

It stops being a conversation if one person posts most of the time. With all due respect to the energy and enthusiasm of our monologist, I'm unsubscribing from my own thread. 

The filibuster is busted.

Next christmast i will stay alone and mute...

Thanks for your feedback...

 

@mahgister   Gaslight much?  

@mahgister ,

It's not an either/or situation.
It's not like a faucet: fully on or shut completely off. 
It's moderation in everything we do.

All the best,
Nonoise

@mahgister  You are well read and make many good points, but spirit doesn't come solely from books and philosophers. Spirit is lived, it is personal experience. I heard much spirit in music I listened to last night, Glenn Gould's Goldberg Variations, what spirit! So many others as well, I was on spiritual journey lead by so many great musicians with such great spirit. And to think I have system that delivers this spirit with illusion of these performers in my room, Yes, this audiophile thing is spiritual work!

 

And now for something completely different. Do you believe one can cultivate the spirit through hallucinogenic substances?  Does proper intention alongside hallucinogenic ingestion create space for seeing the unseen. I can only answer for myself, that indeed it does! Spirit lives in the places normal everyday life obscures, to use an old worn out cliche, opening new doors of perception allows one visions of what was formerly unseen. My forays into this area spurred by early writings of Carlos Castaneda and Travels with Don Juan. I used these readings as my intention when entering these realms.

I meant questions for all on thread.

I stopped doing this,

because I couldn't remember what I listened to.

All the best,
Nonoise

@mahgister

I have read your postings with interest and I also appreciate your efforts to build a system at minimal cost even if it is a bit unconventional with the crystals and rocks. And based on what I see in your system I have ordered for myself a Schumann generator out of curiosity. You might explain to me how to tell if it is even working.

Fascinating and informative everything you have said in these recent posts. We all have a predilection towards evil. It doesn’t take much influence it seems for people to go to dark places and harm others or even themselves. Ever visit the torture museums scattered around Europe? It can be horrifying the awful things we will do to each other. Evil would have consumed the world long ago if not for the Grace of God. The western world gives Christianity lip service- perhaps not so much these days but espouses materialism. In our material world we believe science has all the answers and deny the spirituality of humankind. Even Karl Jung, who you mentioned delved into spirituality through the occult in an attempt to treat it as a scientific endeavor and find a way to control or apply it in material terms. Ultimately, he committed suicide.

The United States was set up as a secular nation. Our own US Constitution is a materialistic blend of Greek philosophies with the goal of humankind developing a Utopian society apart from our Eternal Creator. (The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness) They cleverly peppered the document with the word, "God" to insure all of the colonies would ratify the document. Take for example the premise in our Constitution that all men are created equal. (Set aside the irony for the moment that these words were written by slaveholders). It would seem a plausible Utopian goal but after two and a half centuries of effort, conflict and war can we really say these words are true or achievable in this world? Materialism is a dead end. Do not confuse this with Consumerism. Materialism is the idea that the Universe came to existence on its own and everything evolved from something lessor. Greek philosophy and modern philosophies all lead to dead ends. I say that because so many either deny the spirituality of humankind or misinterpret it as it relates to the Eternal Creator God. All of this leads to absolute evil and the downfall of everyone because in the end everyone in this world dies. But there is Good News! Mahgister, you touched on it briefly at one point. That is that God sent his only son into the world to save it. A simple message but difficult for people to accept. Paul of Tarsus, the greatest missionary and Christian theologian of all times spoke to the great minds in Greece and failed to convey his message to them because The Message is the opposite of Materialism. (A few Greeks that heard his message did become Christians).

I would hope that everyone would read the Holy Bible (Christian Bible) before making conclusions about Christ. It seems so many just form opinions based on ignorance (not a put down but a cry to investigate the Truth on your own) or what the State tells them rather than to read and contemplate on their own. Yes, the Bible is long, some 780,000 words long but few have read it cover to cover and not been affected by it. It’s no wonder the State has worked so hard to keep this book out of our schools away from young people and even ban quotes from this bible from the walls of our public buildings. Why does the state fear this book so much? Perhaps it is words such as this in the bible written by Paul of Tarsus: "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage."

The bible is so readily available everywhere these days and is translated into nearly every language on earth. Anyone could pick up a bible and read it as easily as reaching out for a glass of water. It is a terrible tragedy that people deem its worth based on its accessibility.

It is an either/or situation for me...

If you read my post , you must MATURELY argue against or for my point or stay silent...It is called an ADULT philosophical debate...

Calling me a "filibuster" reflect, by this choice of word, your own personal political ideology and mirror your own PAST actions in all thread pertaining to politics OR NOT where suddenly you never moderate yourself ABOUT YOUR POLITICAL OPINION in the first place, creating foes and neglecting all audio matter because it suit you... I dont act like that i moderate myself and i spoke KINDLY to millercarbon or to you for example......And in this tread i relate all my ideas to audio approach and ideas about music and sound, science and spirit experience...

Then take a mirror...Look at your beam not at my straw...

By the way my posts were never monologos but dialogos propositions and my content is not REPETITIVE but various and original even in audio matters and ARE AROUND the OP question of this thread from many perspective.

Then calling me "filibuster" reflect your own immoderate trend in all threads of audiogon about politics and arguing agaist imaginary political enemy : the right...Millercarbon in particular.. Thinking out of politic is without interest for you it seems...Philosophy and audio are related directly by the way... Ideological politic and audio are not...

 

And the OP is supposed to be a philosopher, i am amazed that instead of discussing and reading my posts which are around the question of consumerism/spirit because he even cited me in the first place in his initial remark he shut me off now... He did it for the same reason in the past... it seems i am not an interesting guest...ideas are too much in numbers and arguments too deep or too stupid...Pick your choice...he dont discuss my arguments EVER like any philosopher will do...I supposed he think i am a deluded fool...Or he himself is unable to think out of a book...

I will quit...

i need friends to speak with, not small hypocrital passive observer...

Thanks for your christmast gift...

And nonoise enjoy posting your childish GIF instead of ideas...Dont call that trolling a thread with unrelated unoriginal humor called that "nonoise right" to annoy by self proclaimed right...And go on with your petty political attacks...

@mahgister ,

It’s not an either/or situation.
It’s not like a faucet: fully on or shut completely off.
It’s moderation in everything we do.

All the best,
Nonoise

you must MATURELY argue against or for my point or stay silent...

So now you're setting the terms of an open conversation?
Who died and put you in charge?

You cry out that I'm being political in debates on Covid and climate change when I'm not. You do so because you cite crazy stuff to support you claims that are easily disputed. So you now carry a grudge. What would your philosophical mentors think of you now? 

I do, in fact, read your threads and find them tiresome because you prattle on endlessly when you could do it succinctly. You write like it's a dissertation instead of  a conversation and that can wear on a person. It turns most people off. 

So like the OP, I'm outta here and you can enjoy yourself all you want as you seem be the your own favorite audience, seeming to marvel on all you can say.

All the best,
Nonoise

Dont distort my words, in any discussion EVERYDOBY, me included, must answer intelligently and not post stupid gift or political attack...

The rules of discussion exist for millenia...

English is not my language and i have the bad habit to arrange my thought in order...

And if you read my answer s to my post they always listing arguments WITHOUT GRUDGE against anyone save those who serve me lesson like "filibuster" accusation...

Quit now your job is done and anyway you are unable to think about deep matter save fanatical politic....You serve lesson but try to answer about any of my post line of thought here... Try, it will reveal your mastering of thought instead of attacking me WITHOUT any sound argument ...

When you serve others the better of yourself and you receive spit like gift, if you are not Christ you react... These 2 posts are my reaction ....

I do, in fact, read your threads and find them tiresome because you prattle on endlessly when you could do it succinctly.

But you are right with the OP i am not succinct... So what? my posts are original in all article, books videos , and ideas recommendations and ARTICULATED so what?

YOU SHUT ME OFF BY THE WORDS COUNT? not by my content?

Look in your face....

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT SOME OTHERS PEOPLE ENJOYED READING MY REFLECTIONS... but you did not why? the words count annoy you?

is this a valid argument at the end?

you are ridiculous and anyone reading all the thread will decide by himself...

 

For some people it always ends up with god, not just any god, but their GOD.  God seems to be an answer, but maybe it's just an endless series of questions...

I think therefore I think I think.

For covid i had sound argument points... I clearly stated my position : vaccination of at risk population of ALL the world, second, no mass mandated forced vacccinations for children , and cheap proven multi drugs free for the others...

It is not WISE and simple to understand? THIS IS PURE SCIENCE....not poltical agenda...

Biden and Trump are idiots i dont choose between idiots..Pick the one you love...

For climate change you lied about me...

I clearly state that there is 2 factors thats all : Sun activity and men activity...

Discussing climate changes is impossible in audio thread, and it is what i said because it is TOO politically charged like covid and too complex more than covid science...Then save for UNDERLINING these 2 important related factors , the sun activity and mankind activity, i never pronounce myself MORE...

Try to be HONEST...not a sophist...Read my post in their context...

You constantly demonstrated in all threead for years your political agenda, i constantly demonstrated that i can change my mind and THINK out of any political ideology..

You are an hypocrit like some of the rightwingers you had attacked all times ...The difference is you are a leftwinger...

I am an adult not a puppet...

Try to contradict me NOW ABOUT any of my philosophical or historical points in this thread if you own a brain...

You cry out that I’m being political in debates on Covid and climate change when I’m not. You do so because you cite crazy stuff to support you claims that are easily disputed.

 

@nonoise - Loved that gif! That's the only way I listen to music (or watch sports or telly or movies)!!!   

🤣🤣🤣

This new type of Christianity I see practiced today is certainly used as shield and sword of righteousness. This idea of personal god so hilarious. The one that always gets me is when one of these natural disasters hits, the survivor states god was with them, their prayers saved them. Unfortunately, we don't get to hear from the dead, they can't tell us how they're prayers weren't answered. Do people actually realize what they're saying when they use this logic! What they're really saying is god liked them more than neighbor, talk about hubris! No spirit here, unless your're talking mean spiritied.

 

I have long suffering Christian relatives, they are never wrong, they speak to their personal god each and every day, and in regard to every single political issue of the day. Every single idea or thought they ever had is absolute truth, and most amazing, they've never been wrong!  I've confronted them with prior incorrect statements over the years, they refuse to acknowledge a thing to my face. Goes into that empty part of brain where ignorance and denial reside.

 

And while I subscribe to Buddhist philosophy, don't get me started on the harms done by Buddhists down thru time immemorial. No, religion is separate from spirit. Religion man made, spirit comes from unknown source within all of us, I presume?

First listen to the video of the "seventh seal" film by Ingmar Bergman..i posted the adress few posts above...

This film which is one of the greatest work of art in cinema adress all your post interrogations.. i had and i have the same interrogations myself which are amongst the great interogations of mankind interogations through time...

 

 

This idea of personal god so hilarious.

 

 

Second i will give to you my clue about that ...

Think about WHO we are..

We are at the same time an IMPERSONAL SPIRIT CONSCIOUSNESS deep in us, and at the surface a biased historical manifested EGO...

Now think about what is GOD... Do you think God is LESS than what we  are...

 Do you think he is an abstraction without personality of any sort...Or a Tyrannical EGO who do nothing while children are kiiled in suffering?

 

Mysteries are not rational or irrational, they are heart beating POTENTIAL  revelation...listen to the "seven seals" ...This work of art is itself a revelation..

The 17 minutes video i posted above is a perfect resume of this film and you will pick the essential...

thanks sns for your interesting posts...

By the way i dont recognize myself with zealots of any kind, religious one or materialist one....

 

You are not ashamed of anything it seems..

look at yourself before looking at me...

discussing WITH ARGUMENTS isnot hyjacking a thread..

posting filibuster accusation and now this is TROOLING ME...and the thread where the OP invite me at the first place... He shut himself off because he dont like my words count sum but NEVER EVER answer ANY of my arguments for or against WHY?

am i irrational? i am passionate yes but i can present ideas ...new one...Not old political mantra...or statistical giiberish to win a point ... Do you recognize you..

No argument then appeal to others to attack me..

Great man you are indeed...

Make you own referendum about me in audiogon and if you had more people who think like you i will QUIT audiogon forever...

How many threads has mahgister highjacked? 
Anyone keeping count?