Power conditioner some say yes and some say no.

I have no idea how much the PS Audio power plants make a system sound better in house XYZ.    But one thing is: I know exactly what hey do.  And I can totally see how it will isolate a system from dubious power.  It’s AC-DC-AC conversion  and that process is good enough to isolate US - Canada power grids.  That’s a lot more than what I can say about any other vendor.  

The Keces IQRP 3600 improves the sound very much. I highly recommend it. It is beginning to get recognition worldwide according to the internet. I love mine. It is a large unit being 62 pounds and almost as large as my Pass Labs X250.8 amplifier.

While most good power conditioners can lower the noise floor, ime only one lowered the noise floor AND added punch, or leading edge attack, to the music when my amp was plugged into it. That was the Richard Gray 1200s. It’s a simple design with two huge inductors and it simply works, ime. No current limitations. No other detriment to the music. It just adds some muscle to the sound. The split second power reserve it provides is an excellent side benefit. Using a Pangea C19 20 A power cable in lieu of the stock power cable took it up another notch for a larger soundstage without question. This is not to say that others can’t do this too, as I haven’t tried every conditioner out there. For bang for the $$, the RG1200 is hard to beat. That’s been MY experience.

The audio companies have invented a component for people to waste their money.

Ha! Mostly true- the PSAudio is the only one that actually seems to work. As I probably mentioned earlier in this thread, Elgar made the best we've seen- and they got out of the conditioner market a long time ago. But their stuff was industrial/commercial and simply had to work. And it does. In addition to keeping the output waveform under 0.5% up to full current capacity, it also regulates line voltage. Pretty neat trick- the only other conditioner mentioned on this thread that can do any of that is the PSAudio.


You have to have active circuitry for the conditioner to really do anything of significance. Otherwise its a glorified power strip.

My system has all digital sources (disk & music server) and when I upgraded from a modest Furman conditioner to the PS Audio P10, I noticed an immediate improvement in the sound quality.  When the P15 was introduced, I upgraded again and was pleasantly surprised how the bass tightened up and the sound stage improved a little more.

I can't speak to whether these units would improve analog sources, but I'd say with digital the answer for me was "yes".

The Keces IQRP 3600 sounds good. Everything sounds bigger somehow. Nice conditioner.

I will have the Keces IQRP 3600 in 4 days. I will report back after I have it in my system for a bit. I have a feeling I will be pleased. My system sounds better in the late evening early morning so I am hoping that the new Keces will help my system sound better all day.

I placed the order for the Keces IQRP 3600 just yesterday so I should have it in a couple of weeks.

Power in watts is volts times amps. W=VA.

This is only true if there are no phase differences between the current and voltage. If there is a phase angle involved (inductive load) things might be quite different.

Emailists, I used the elite 15i not the reference 15 series. I demoed a reference 7 in my home, I believe that’s what is was, it had a silver face plate. I thought it was a nice conditioner and improved the music. It was the cheapest in the reference line if memory serves me right. I’ve always run dedicated lines so that may help too. I don’t even want to get into rhodium outlets discussion but those were a big step up also.

Paul, the Furman reference series (as well as some of the similar Audioquest Niagara’s ) stores energy to deliver more current than available from the wall for short times for increased transient response. I was putting together a small system with a Hegel H190 and bought a used Furman Reference 15. It does store some energy, though not nearly as much as my Niagara 7000 in my main system , but the very old Furman did help most aspects of the Hegel integrated. Cleaner power can sound less exciting or lower in volume, but adding back some gain fixes it and reveals a more precise presentation with added micro and macro dynamics.

phillyby-

I have tried many, and good ones, sold them all. The only one I held on to is a PS Audio P-12 Regenerator for my front-end gear and it does what they say it does. My amp is always into the wall no matter what I was using. The PS can clean up the incoming and output a pefect clean wave form, and as importantly keep the voltage steady at 120V. The days when folks claimed their system sounded better on some days or at nights or weekends, the thought was more noise, well it is also the line voltage changing up and down.

To test this I raised the out voltage of my PS audio unit from steady120V to 121, 122, 123, and with each step raised the sound became less detailed with fat bloated bass, and by 123 volts the dark heavy sound was backlike days gone by in the past, then I lowered it to 119V, 118, 117 volts and the sound became thinner and clinical sounding, same as some days in the past.

This was an education for me, and from that now if a conditioner of any kind cannot regulate the voltage to a steady 120, then I would look for a unit that would. Going back to my front end with out PS unit, sounded OK, but then later on the day it sounded totaly different, I check the out going wall voltage and the reading was up to 123.9 volts and it sounded that was, even a dictated line will not solve a major issue that impacts all systems, day or night. My wall outlet is rarely at 120V, most days 122V and others 119V, highest has been 124V and lowest 118V.

When AC line voltage coming in the wall varies this is a natural result of voltage draw on a vast complex electrical grid. This is nothing like what happens when you change the voltage on your regenerator. The two are completely different, and in ways that have a huge impact on your comparison.

Power in watts is volts times amps. W=VA.

You cannot create watts from nothing. The power delivered is the power delivered. You can increase volts only by decreasing amps. So even though your panel and wire may support more amps you have limited it by increasing voltage. So of course it sounds worse. But if you decrease voltage then again you have a problem only now it is that you are trying to draw more amps from the circuit. So it sounds worse this way too. There is no free lunch. You are screwed either way.

I never have measured voltage at night. It sounds better then, but not because of voltage.

 First power conditioner I ever tried was Running Springs Hayley 15 years ago and I’ve used them ever since. I connected 2 McCormack dna rev a mono blocks, pre and sources and I had never heard what air around each instrument in the soundstage was all about until that day. 
Since then I bought the RUnning Springs Dmitri which resulted in a bigger improvement. I have only used passive conditioners and results were very noticeable. I did buy a Furman 15i for a home theater and tried for the hell of it in my main system with amp in conditioner and then wall, source and pre in conditioner and it sucked the life out the music. 

I have tried many, and good ones, sold them all. The only one I held on to is a PS Audio P-12 Regenerator for my front-end gear and it does what they say it does. My amp is always into the wall no matter what I was using. The PS can clean up the incoming and output a pefect clean wave form, and as importantly keep the voltage steady at 120V. The days when folks claimed their system sounded better on some days or at nights or weekends, the thought was more noise, well it is also the line voltage changing up and down.

To test this I raised the out voltage of my PS audio unit from steady120V to 121, 122, 123, and with each step raised the sound became less detailed with fat bloated bass, and by 123 volts the dark heavy sound was backlike days gone by in the past, then I lowered it to 119V, 118, 117 volts and the sound became thinner and clinical sounding, same as some days in the past.

This was an education for me, and from that now if a conditioner of any kind cannot regulate the voltage to a steady 120, then I would look for a unit that would. Going back to my front end with out PS unit, sounded OK, but then later on the day it sounded totaly different, I check the out going wall voltage and the reading was up to 123.9 volts and it sounded that was, even a dictated line will not solve a major issue that impacts all systems, day or night. My wall outlet is rarely at 120V, most days 122V and others 119V, highest has been 124V and lowest 118V. 

If you search “balanced power” you will learn a lot about how AC power can affect your system. I have posted links a couple of times to a presentation by Garth Powell who was formerly with Furman Power but left to join Audioquest to develop the Niagara series of products. I’m not endorsing his product but simply providing good information about balanced power. I have used a BPT 2.5 Signature for several years and my system is black as can be. The term “power conditioner” is a generic term that really doesn’t mean anything. If you do more research you will have a much better grasp of what is available and their benefits. I have no loss in dynamics with my amp.

@OP  Find out what fuses your Hydra power conditioners use and replace them with the appropriate Synergistic Research Orange fuses. 
You'll freak. Suddenly, your Hydras become valuable components in your system.

I absolutely hear softening of transients on my 845SET amp with power conditioners, including my BPT 3.5 Signature, a balanced isolation transformer based pc. Further upgraded with Oyaide R1 ac receptacles and Mundorf filtering caps. This most noticed with my Coincident 845 SET amp, high current, high voltage tube amp. I've yet to try my 300b SET and EL34 push pull on BPT.  I hear some degradation even when other audio equipment sharing amp circuit. So, dedicated amp circuit, 10AWG, Oyaide R1 for me.

I also love the BPT , and believe a quality balanced transformer based pc is great solution for rest of system. Even prefer to lithium ion battery I've used to power certain equipment.
As mentioned in my previous post in thread. The only filter/pc I've found that doesn't soften transients on the 845SET  is Furutech Flux-50 NCF

Read about these on Audio Science Review. The audio companies have invented a component for people to waste their money.

That absolutely does not happen with isolation transformers.

As long as you don't run them past about 50% of their rated capacity.

 @three_easy_payments
Thanks for the support. I hear most of the users here complaining rightfully so about degradation in dynamics when plugged into a power conditioner. That absolutely does not happen with isolation transformers.

Look it’s easy. Buy one from a place where you can return it. The Cable Company, Music Direct, etc Move on. 

@ja_kub_sz

Well it didn't help my speaker hum from my power amp.

Did you try a balanced isolation transformer?  My personal experience is that these work much better than straight linear conditioning.  Worked very well with my Line Magnetic SET amp.

Well it didn't help my speaker hum from my power amp.

So to that I say power conditioner did nothing, but if you have $500 to toss around... Why not?

I'll do a thorough sit down, but I'm looking at it more for my power amp then my intergrated amp.

Mega rabbit hole with no bottom.

mcintosh says to connect their amps to the wall.  Conditoners steal away power. 
Clean up power hitting an expensive tv with conditioner, makes sense.

dont forget value of a surge protector. 
God help us to figure all this out

@eastendhifi   

+1 on isolation transformers...and I greatly appreciate your dealer disclosure which is refreshing these days.  These products are indeed great regardless of the brand.

We obviously are dealers, so you can take what I say with a grain of salt…but isolation transformer based power conditioners just plain work!  Take out of the equation, the fact that they might improve the sound of your system and let’s just look at the fact that they will absolutely protect your valuable electronics. Here in New York in the summer, we have many many brown outs. These brown outs are milliseconds in length, but can do significant damage to your system because of the massive current that occurs right after the brown out.  One summer, we blew out four transformers from a pair of mono block tube amplifiers from two different manufacturers.  Since installing an Isolation Transformer six years ago, we have had zero issues.  By the way, it also improves bass response, and gives blacker backgrounds.

If you buy the isolation transformer and find it hums  too much open it up and install rubber vibration absorbing feet from parts express between the transformer and the case to help keep it quiet.  Setting on an inch thick cork pad from Amazon also helps.

With sryeager being an exception, in general here are steps I find helpful.
1. Breaker box should be updated to move your room away from air conditioners, blowers, and other high draw breakers
2.  Add a whole house surge protector
3.  Put your equipment on an isolation transformer https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00008YMZO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
4. Use shielded power cables https://www.mouser.com/Wire-Cable/Cable-Assemblies/AC-Power-Cords/_/N-bkrhnZ1yzvvqx?P=1z0t1rp
5.  Stay away from Blue tooth and unplug wall warts.  Both generate high frequency noise which most linear power supplies are not designed to filter 
6.  If your equipment has rca and earth ground connected each component going to earth ground creates a ground loop

The power in my old house, mostly ungrounded outlets, as well as the line coming in are atrocious.  Start the vacuum cleaner and lights dim for a second.  A used PS Audio regenerator made a huge improvement.

I worked for Roger Modjeski for several years. He was always of the opinion that if you designed the power supply of a component properly then additional power conditioning would not be needed. In his system he used an inexpensive power strip, mainly just to have the ability to power on/off all his components simultaneously.

@clio09 I've found this to be true too- you really have to regulate!

If regulation isn't an option then a power conditioner can do some good- but it had better actually be a real power conditioner and not a glorified power strip (which describes most of the 'high end audio power conditioners'). If you don't push them too hard the PSAudio power regeneraters are quite decent.


The best conditioner I've seen was made by Elgar for commercial industrial use. It has the ability to regulate line voltage and put out a clean since wave (with guaranteed distortion less than 0.5%) right up to full current, some of which can support 28 amps continuous! These units are older as Elgar got out of the business decades ago and so have to be refurbished with new filter caps for their power supplies and the like. But they do offer improved sonics!


Its the 5th harmonic of the AC line frequency that is arguably the most pesky. This can occur when the line transformers on the telephone poles are pushed past 50% of their total capacity of for that matter any transformer in the chain between the power plant and the wall outlet. The 5th harmonic is hard to filter out because of its low frequency (300Hz) so the smaller 'conditioners' simply can't do it. It can cause power transformers to run warm and make noise, diodes to radiate more 'diode noise' and synchronous motors to perhaps run the wrong way. You can google this topic; Fluke instruments has a number of articles available.


Most of the 'high end audio power conditioners' I've seen are deleterious to the performance of our amps; I tell our customers to stay away from them or only use them for the front end of the system.


Many audiophiles understand that power cords can have a sonic effect (which is caused by the voltage drop across them- they are subject to Ohm's Law like everything else in electricity); consider that a glorified power strip forces you to use one power cord for a variety of stuff which might include two monoblock amps. If the amps are rated to make full power with 120 Volts available, there's good chance this won't happen if the voltage drop on the 'power conditioner' power cord is significant (2-3 volts is not unheard of). If the power cord or the connectors it uses (including the AC outlet) tend to get warm that's a Bad Sign. I've seen this phenomena rob an amplifier of a good 40 watts of output power- under those circumstances its easy to see how this could also be audible :)

At least I was able to install 3 dedicated power lines to my music room and I have my amp plugged into a Hydra2 plugged into a dedicated line and the rest of the system is plugged into a Hydra 6 plugged into a dedicated power line. I don’t hear any noise or hum but what I do notice is that sometimes the sound is spectacular while other times the sound is just good. The Keces IQRP 3600 was more of a “what if?” after thought but it will be fun to one day try. What does help is keeping the system on 24/7 but even still the sound improves with music play. 

@charles1dad - I was using the Torus RM15+ for quite a few years and before that had the original Running Springs Audio Haley. Both were very good, but do not provide balanced isolation.

I have 4 dedicated lines for my system, the BPT is plugged into one (sources plugged into the BPT), the amp into another, and the electrostatic speakers plugged into one each. If I had the space and the money I would get an Equitech unit that hooks up directly to the main house panel.

@clio09

’If you want a real bargain check out the link. It says DIY but Chris will build it for you for a nominal fee. These are essentially the same Balanced Power Technology units that were offered years ago when Chris was still in business. I bought two of them and am very satisfied:

Agree 100%, the BPT products are terrific ! I’ve had his BPT 3.5 Signature plus unit for 11 years and still consider it one of the wisest audio product purchases I’ve ever made. Every component sounds better via this balanced isolation transformer than without it.

As others have pointed out, individual circumstances will obviously influence the outcomes of different users/different power conditioners. For me a very positive net gain in sound quality. The late Roger Modjeski was right in regard to the balanced isolation transformer. I don’t have experience with other brands of this type of power conditioner.
Charles

@rixthetrick, I haven’t compared with and without,  as not using them isn’t really an option,  I need the extra  receptacles  they provide.

@mitchb - thanks for sharing your system page. I like looking at what is out there in people's systems, so again, thanks for taking the time.

I use shunyata triton typhon combo on my main system and hydra on my vintage tube system. The key things I notice are more details, and much better focus and depth of sound stage, even noticeable by my wife. That’s a biggie. 

@unsound - what results did you hear? Improvement?

I use a couple of fairly inexpensive units mostly to add outlets, offer some protection from brown and black outs, facilitate cable management and separate analog from digital components.

Wall outlets. How charming.

How does the term electrical recepticles work for you :-) ?

This is a good interview with Nelson Pass on the topic, as he takes a practical view: https://www.stereophile.com/content/power-according-pass

As you found out, it is not prudent to prepay to an individual during a pandemic (of the unvaccinated.)

Effective treatment plans, for various patient situations have been developed with very high success rates to avoid both hospitalisation and death, working for both vaccinated and unvaccinated. There is no new vaccine for the Delta variant of Sars Cov 2, that I have been made aware of 5/9/2021.

A prominent research out of Israel indicates that natural immunity is 13 times better than vaccines, and 27 times less likely to be symptomatic.
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/ends-debate-israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-13x-more-effecti...

+1 for Puritan power conditioner
Which will easily deliver sufficient current flow for almost all systems, while providing noise separation between devices. I have over 1Kw of current drawing devices plugged into mine.

There are devices that do not support such current flow, Puritan is not one of them.

Seems to me that it would depend on what the needs are. Voltage regulation, DC blockage, filtering of RFI and/or EMI. Conditioners differ in there ability to affect these different issues. There are conditioners, voltage regenerators, and filters. Some use a combination of these. I have no experience with any of the aforementioned devices.

At the moment I plug my Pass XA25 amplifier direct to a dedicated line. My Aric Audio Pre is on a second dedicated line. My digital equipment is on a third separate dedicated line run through a Emotiva CMX2  into a PS Audio Ultimate outlet (a balun transformer). Outlet ->PS UO->CMX2 -> equipment.

Wall outlets. How charming. 

I say yes and no.

I plug my Primaluna Evo400 right into the wall. It is the only component plugged into that dedicated circuit.

The rest of my components (2 analogue and 2 digital) are plugged into 2 Furman AC-215As. Each Furman has only 2 sockets. One Furman for the digital side and one for analog. The AC-215As are set into a thin hardwood sled that rests nicely behind the rack and below the 2nd dedicated circuit.

Keeping the signal and power cables crossing at 90 degrees eliminated the occasional slight intermittent noise coming from the speakers.

I bought a power conditioner when I go too the point it was a great way to have everything plug into the one unit. I built my own power cords and now it we are going to be gone for any period of time I only unplug the PC. As for improving the sound, I cannot say. YMMV

Hello,
First, Do you have the ability to run a new dedicated 20 amp line to you equipment? If you can, please do that first. Also, if you can have the electrician drop in a better grounding rod. 8’ of copper coated grounding rod or two tied together. $20 each is very little to spend for a big change in sound.  The grounding rod that is there might be to inadequate for a music system. It was put their first safety at minimum code. If you did that or cannot do that the I say look into the Puritan line of products. They not only have one of the best power conditioners I have heard but also ways to help fix the grounding by adding a dedicated grounding system and the hardware to easily get it connected to your gear. They have recently come out with a special plug that looks to filter the ground so if you live in an apartment or a shared environment you have a better ground point to feed from. Regardless you should try the Puritan PSM156 power conditioner or double the outlets and filtration the PSM1512. The new product by Puritan is called the Ground Master City. If you live near the Chicagoland area this is the store where I bought my Puritan PSM156. https://holmaudio.com/
They let you try before you buy. No risk to your wallet just your time. Believe me, you will not want to take it out of your system. 

That's promising!

I was using a Audioquest Niagara 5000 for my entire system. My dealer recommended I plug my Diablo 300 straight into the wall. My jaw hit the ground. The amp came alive. I could hear the sonic improvement instantly.