My experience and mine alone - I use a Lumin, U1 Mini (has no DAC) fed into a Line Magnetic, LM502ca Tube/SS DAC with extaordinary exotic NOS tubes. I also have a Canor, DAC 2.10 that I’m rolling better tubes into soon but right now, I prefer the LM502ca as I’m super used to its presentation. The LM was $1800-ish 8yrs ago but go for about $8-900 preowned today, also, (new tubes $500). The Canor was $4K and the Lumin was about $2K & the S Boster (a must) was, I think, $350. Money invested seems to be in step with the equal dollares spent on each, prob by coincidence, however it’s an amazing streaming set up. I use an Audience, AU24e Digital BNC cable as well and AU24e RCAs to my Calypso Signature prefering those connections to balanced. My feeling is that the Aurender may be overkill in your system unless you plan to up your DAC game at some point. Albiet a wonderful piece, you wont know just how great that Aurender can be unless you, and deoesn’t have to be right away, upgrade your DAC. Oh, and yes, would be helpful to know the rest of your gear. $6K+ is a "real number" and I don’t think you need to spend that to realize great streaming. It’s more about choosing the right pieces. Just my opinion & I wish you luck!
Solo streamer
I’m looking to replace my Cambridge CXN v2 with a streamer that has better SQ. I want a streamer with no extra accoutrements: no DAC, storage capacity, etc., nothing but a streamer. Is this available?
Respectfully, I do not understand the posts that suggest the OP won’t know what the Aurender is capable of with his current DAC. The one thing most agree on with respect to the Benchmark DAC is that it is highly resolving, very transparent. The most common criticism of it is that it is too analytical. But regardless of where you stand on that, how can it be that an uber-resolving DAC won’t reveal exactly what a streamer is, or is not, doing? |
@mdalton I defended the Benchmark in an earlier post against those who had belittled it, but got no response. I agree with what you are saying. |
@abnerjack Yeah, I saw your post and basically agreed. As you’ve no doubt noticed, I’m a streamer skeptic, but you can’t have it both ways. You can’t claim that streamers sound different, different tonality even, and then argue that you can’t hear the difference with a revealing DAC. These two ideas are in violent conflict. What’s not inconsistent is if somebody thinks a $10k DAC is more “full-bodied”, “refined”, blah, blah blah, but that has nothing to do with the streamer. DACs sound different. Duh. |
@mdalton You absolutely can't have any audiophile street cred if you don't buy in to the "everything new and more expensive is better" shtick. Luckily not all of us accept this spew. Of course there has to be a base line, entry level. How far above that one must go is an individual decision. I think the Bluesound node is an excellent streamer. I don't feel the need to wear a price tag as a badge of honor. For the record, my digital setup is : Bluestream node n130 into Benchmark dac3 hgc, directly into Bryston 4bsst2, and then Magnepan 1.7. Sometimes I alternate the Herron preamp and the Kef meta ls50 into the mix. The sound with these variations is outstanding to my ear, but what do I know? I have recently found a nice pair of used Sennheiser 800, and with the Benchmark dac the sound is remarkable. I do think the headphone amp in the Benchmark is somewhat lacking and am looking for an upgrade to the Quicksilver tube amp. I don't feel the need for any further upgrades. But again what do I know? Reminds me of my favorite all time bumper sticker. "You just think you're happy" ( Bloomington, In. 1970). In this case I just think I'm happy with my sound. |
Last month I did what rvpiano is proposing. Bought a new Aurender N200 and added it to an ~$2k (Ayre Codex) DAC. Glorious sound quality. Haven't streamed Tidal or Qobuz yet. Been playing my files off the internal SSD. Another thread said there wouldn't be any improvement over the Oppo BDP105 and Ayre playing the same files from external hard drive.The Aurender definitely sounds better. Thanks, aldnorab |
@abnerjack
lol! Yeah, the dogmatists on this forum have a hard time figuring out what to do with me. They want to put me in a box that just doesn’t fit. I am a tubes and vinyl guy who thinks that measurements can provide insight into what we hear. I don’t think that measurements can possibly do full justice to what we hear in the analog realm, which includes DACs, of course. I’ve been streaming for 30 years, and I don’t believe streamers matter if they meet certain basic engineering requirements, which can be measured. And whenever we talk about noise, I think measurements give much more accurate insight than subjective listening tests, particularly for gear where the only known differences are noise (e.g., streamers, network switches, etc.)! Radical positions, I know. I recognize that my passion on this stuff can be off-putting to some. I just see this area of the industry (streamers, etc.) as full of misinformation, and it drives me nuts. I’ve seen no credible theoretical explanation of the differences among streamers other than jitter and power supply noise. Indeed, manufacturers brag about their low jitter, low noise streamers, and yet give absolutely no data in their specs. It’s easy to measure, so why wouldn’t they do that? The only consistent source of good data on this in the mainstream audio press is Paul Miller at HiFi News, and he shows no material differences in jitter across streamers that range in price from £500 to £33,000! Even Stereophile has stayed away from this issue. It’s a scandal, IMHO, but I’m the bad guy for trying to protect our community from this? So yeah, it’s a little frustrating. But I figure it’s worth it if I provide an alternative view that helps a few members avoid making a mistake.
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@mdalton Yeah, the box you’re in is that you’re sadly incapable of hearing differences between streamers like almost all other people here very easily can and have, and as a result you’re reduced to only using a couple numbers to evaluate streamer performance. That the vast majority of people here can easily hear differences between streamers is why your “alternative view” is just simply disregarded and will continue to be useless here, but you’re certainly free to keep spewing it and feeling frustrated if that’s your bag. You think you’re providing some kinda service here by saying things like streamers have no sound when all you’re really doing is making yourself look utterly foolish to the vast majority here who’ve heard that to absolutely not be true with their own ears. I’ll say again — they’ve heard significant differences between streamers with their own ears and spouting numbers will never overcome that so ultimately your little crusade here is just pointless. |
@mdalton, How is it being a dogmatist when you state, in your experience, |
@soix exactly. and I’ve not once accused you of making yourself “look utterly foolish”, because that’s a personal attack. I certainly disagree with you, but I don’t insult your intelligence or suggest your posts are “pointless.” We simply disagree. I think you honestly believe what you think, just as I do. (Reminds me of a great management aphorism though: “Don’t always believe what you think.”) Anyway, let’s see if you can be a little more civil. I’ll break down my statements in a format that’s easier for you to react to. Why don’t you tell me, by #, which ones you disagree with, and then we can have an actual, potentially constructive conversation. (Remember, you’re not allowed to assume a statement not in evidence.) Statement #1: Measurements can provide insight into what we hear. Statement #2: Measurements can’t possibly do full justice to what we hear in the analog realm, including DACs. Statenent #3: Streamers don’t matter if they meet certain basic engineering requirements, which can be measured. Statement #4: With respect to noise, measurements provide more accurate insight than subjective listening tests, particularly for gear where the only known differences are noise. I’m pretty sure we agree violently on #1 and #2, but I wouldn’t want to assume anything. Looking forward to your (civil) response. |
@rvpiano nope. just take a look at my first post on this thread, where I said: “Here’s a link to a recent thread where competing perspectives on this issue are discussed:“ I didn’t suggest to you that the alternate view to mine was stupid, incoherent or wrong. Instead, I pointed you to a thread where both sides of the question were explored. So I’m really having a tough time understanding your hostility to me, But hey, knock yourself out. |
@mdalton You very sadly can’t hear differences between streamers, and that’s a non starter and makes any further discussion with you on the topic pointless because you simply can’t understand what you can’t hear. So you and the four other people here who likewise think streamers don’t make a difference can just go on thinking that, and you can just keep rocking that iFi Zen Stream and Pro-Ject Stream Box believing that’s as good as it gets and good for you. The other 98% of us will enjoy exploring and enjoying better streamers and better sound while you go on believing we’re all kidding ourselves. Ya gotta kinda wonder about the lopsided difference in personal experience there, don’t ya? Or does that just somehow not compute in your mental equation? I’d like to think that if I ever found myself in the extreme minority here on some topic that I’d have the self awareness and humility to consider that maybe — just maybe — my compass was off, but you be you. Regardless, I’m done banging my head against some mad bugger’s wall. Peace out. |
@rvpiano Thank you for your post! I appreciate the opportunity to follow your journey, yours always have an excellent outcome whether you keep the gear or send it back. |
@soix you never fail to meet expectations. thank you for providing a reliable, calming source of anger and nastiness. in this moment of cultural unrest and division in our country, we have so few places where we are not buffetted by the winds of violent change. thank god for you, our port in the storm. |
@mdalton You say that manufacturers don’t include any measurements to defend that streamers can make a difference, but once Sony didn’t know what audiophiles were complaining about when CD players first came out, and it was later figured out that jitter was the problem. I’m not saying it’s jitter currently, but it could be something else that measurements aren’t exposing. |
@soix nah, we just know how networks operate. |
@mikhailark Yeah, you just don’t have any idea how they operate in an audio system and are unable or unwilling to use your ears to tell you anything because you arrogantly think you know everything, and you don’t. You are very good at being able to stick your head in the sand though I’ll give you that, but I understand it’s easier for you that way. You and your type are in the vast minority here for a very good reason that you can’t or won’t accept or grasp, and I’ve no inclination to waste anymore time than I already have with your foolishness. You may now reinsert head in sand where it’s most comfy. Later dude. |
Great post. Mind posting the actual image next time? I ain’t clicking on your links man. |
@soix you don't want to waste your time - so don't. And yet you keep posting long diatribes without any note of science. They are pretty personally insulting too and you also apparently acquired some right to speak for the community? You don't like someone's opinion? It is a free country. At least I am not insulting anyone. So yeah, take a hike. |
@mdalton - Amen. If it is engineering, they must be able to show what is it, exactly. Maybe even have a patent. Otherwise it is vapor. |
@invalid - true with Sony, but engineers were easily able to show jitter issue with DACs. Nothing fancy. Audio CDs were never designed to be bit perfect delivery of data. But networks are. As is USB protocol. We don’t connect hard drives, smartphones or cameras to PCs over SPDIF or Toslink for a reason. But we don’t lose phone backups, pictures or signed house deeds when sending data over USB or networks. Financial industry operates over same protocols sending money. Military send missile launch orders. "Ethernet cleaners" can never explain what is that they do. And for some reason cloud datacenters that stores all those Tidal files never use $$$ USB or Ethernet cables. Google network engineers would have a good laugh if offered 'cleaned Ethernet' or 'upgraded network cables'. |
Latest update. The Aurender was shipped from South Korea to Music Direct via MY mailing address. Since those two entities don’t match, it’s being held in customs in Cincinnati since last Wednesday, the day it was supposedly to be delivered. Now, after much aggravation from DHL, the shipping manager from Music Direct contacted customs to try and unravel the red tape. Now the unit is supposed to be delivered THIS Wednesday. All this could have been avoided if Aurender sent the streamer from their facilities in California. But, I guess that’s how they do business. |
Ordered my new Aurender N200 from a dealer on Audiogon. It shipped from Korea and arrived here, in Missouri, in about 6 days. Aurender might be experiencing quite an uptick in sales due to their new Room compatibility. Really like mine. It took 200+ hours to break in. Replaced their USB cable with a Supra 2.0 that is warmer and has more body. Good luck, hope yours arrives soon. Thanks, aldnorab |
@rvpiano That sounds like it may have been an error with how your dealer provided Aurender with your shipping address. Typically, it is drop shipped directly to you. And interestingly, if it ships via DHL from South Korea, it will get to you faster than when it ships FedEx from California. I’ve never had Aurender mess up any addressing of any of my orders, and my clients get their units without any shipping issues. Aurender has always confirmed the mailing address with me before shipping, so if there were any errors, I would have had a chance to correct them. So try not to associate this issue with Aurender, but more likely the dealer, who may have made an error in providing the correct info. Of course, the likelihood of a dealer taking accountability for such a mistake is slim to none! |
I must say, if I stream Qobuz the sound is quite impressive. However, a probable fatal flaw for me is that i love the classically oriented Idagio app, which can only be accessed through AirPlay on Conductor. AirPlay on Conductor is far inferior to the sound of AirPlay on my Cambridge streamer. I guess there’s no way of incorporating Idagio into the Conductor app, |
@rvpiano - Yes, the N200 will take a few weeks to truly settle. It will also benefit greatly from aftermarket digital cables and power cables. What are you using in those areas? Also, I mentioned what you might experience in pairing with your Benchmark DAC in an earlier post. Sorting capabilities vary by the scope that you're looking at within Conductor, as well as the device you're using (iPad vs mobile phone). What exactly are you looking at when you want to sort alphabetically - songs, albums, or artists?
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