Speaker Suggestions for Next Move

I honestly feel looking to either the Volti Lucera, or Volti Rival. Lucera new, in whatever nice finish you want, can be had at the lower end of your budget. The Rival, at the top end, (though you may need to search for a deal). Sometimes Volti has a pre-loved pair at a really good price. 

Volti will match well with either of your solid state or tube options. Have all the dynamics, depth and detail one could want. Honestly I have never owned a more exciting and fun speaker. 

@doyle3433 which model do you have? I have heard the rivals at a recent Axpona and loved them. 

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I think the Volti recommendation would be a natural progression for you, especially the Lucera. I had thought about that one myself.

But I have another suggestion. I have been living with the Qualio IQ speakers for about two months now and they are very impressive. Our rooms are of very similar dimensions and they have no problem pressurizing and filling the room. They do what you would expect an OB to do, but with very impressive bass down to the upper 20s. Your budget would allow the Ultra version, which I have no experience with, but it adds better xover components.

I have an extensive history with Klipsch Heritage speakers. I did in fact own the CW IV for about a year. My last klipsch speaker was the Lascala II, which I absolutely loved. I can tell you that the IQ does everything the LS could do and ups the game with better resolution and refinement. The soundstage is just as wide, but much deeper. And dynamics are a toss up between the two.

Hello @ozzy62 , Good to see you chime in here as I recall your history with the Heritage line and several excellent discussions with you in the past!

I'm off to look at Qualio IQ per your recommendation. THANK YOU!

@jbhiller Curiosity killed the cat. I know Cornwalls well and I know for a fact they are capable of much more than the usual set up. They can get very close to the state of the art with the right electronics. They can image much better and have more depth, much more depth. Instead of buying new loudspeakers I suggest you get a new preamp, a digital processing one. I have turned several sows ears into silk purses this way. On the low end is the MiniDSP SHD followed by the SHD Studio with outboard DACs. The there is the Anthem STR, the Trinnov Amethyst and finally the DEQX Pre 4 and 8. What these processors will do is remove any group delays, integrate subwoofers perfectly and most importantly will EQ the system so that the frequency response of both channels is identical given the space they are in also known as room control. After the processor does it's thing you can EQ the system to sound exactly the way you want. With the Pre 8 you can even triamp your Cornwalls. You will never look back and you will lose any interest in new speakers. 

The only good reason to look at other speakers is if you want to switch to a line source system like the Magnepan 3.7i and 20.7 or Sound Labs ESLs. These speakers will give you a larger life like image at the expense of maximal volumes and efficiency. The reason Cornwalls have the potential to be so good is they are very efficient and like Dipoles have very controlled dispersion  which minimizes room interaction. They are not built to the same level of quality as a Magico or Wilson speaker which means there is more variability between speakers which causes issues with imaging. A digital preamp fixes this problem perfectly so that the channels are even more identical than the finest speakers. 

Classic Audio Reproductions have some interesting high efficiency loudspeakers that are probably a step up from the Cornwalls.  They are highly customizable.

I'm on board with the Volti recommendations also heard the Rivals a few times and really love them. I've not heard the new Lucera which I'm sure is fantastic. I also think staying with horns is a good idea as you may miss that live quality horns give you.

That said Fyne, Spendor Classic, and Devore are all fine choices I'd be hard pressed to choose between them though the Classic 100 or older versions in the 100 series are definite favorites.

I'd stick with horns or open baffle speakers, I went from open baffle to box speakers, never could quite deal with the box speaker presentation. After that went to Klipschorns, I've modded them extensively, only bass bin remains stock. Klipsch Heritage can image and sound stage with tractrix horns, in case of three ways, tweeter on custom baffle, need at least physical time alignment and independent movement of mid driver and tweeter in case of Klipschorn.

Of speakers you mentioned I'd go with the Volti's, I'm using Volti tractrix horns on my Klipschorns. Greg's modded Klipschorn crossovers were inspiration for my crossover mods.  You were onto something with your modded Cornwalls, the Volti's can take you the rest of the way.

@jbhiller I have a pair of Razz. Entry level into the Volti line. I am completely over the moon with them, every time if fire them up I just feel so completely satisfied and happy with them. I picked my pair up directly from Greg at his shop. I had the opportunity to listen to my Razz next to a pair of rivals and a pair of new Vittora in prototype. They all shared an amazing dynamic character, there’s definitely a house sound there. The Rivals are much bigger, sound much bigger, and go lower. But that sweet coherent midrange was so much there across all three models.

i did listen to the Lucera at the Fla expo this year and I was seriously trying to figure out how to work out a deal with Greg right then and there to trade up!

The razz depending on finish and grill cloth will go for about $7500, the Lucera about $10,000, and the Rivals about $16,000. 
 

check out the Volti site, Greg’s got it all well explained along with pricing and what he has on hand for sale. Plus he’s a really good guy to deal with. He really wants to make sure his customers are completely satisfied.

Revival Audio and then you can end your search.

Thank you all for the recommendations.  Yes, Volti does seem like a great fit. Man, I heard the Rivals (I think) at the 2019 AXPONA and said to myself that they sounded better to me than so many rooms. I was actually comparing them to $35k Steinheims (not that I was buying those)--they sounded that good. 

Maybe I need a trip to see Greg. 

@SNS, Yes, I did my modifications at the very same time Don Sachs did his. We conversed over email.  I loved the CWIVs but felt building to a price point constrained them.  I'm not sure going back to do the inductors would make much difference--I skipped those. 

I will say this. I have friends who have very modern speakers (Revel Salon 2s, Magico, B&W, etc.). When they hear the modified CWIVs (with excellent electronics and sources), they are amazed at how big and dynamic the sounds is.  I've pretty much tamed any brightness. While I don't mind that they are the best imaging speaker, I would like a bit more cohesion out of them. 

I'll keep researching and planning. Keep the posts coming. 

@bigkidz , Revival Audio looks great. Don Better in Shaker Heights is a 6 hour drive. I'm going to ping them. 

Reasons for Changing.  They do not sound harsh or bright. I'm not thinking of moving on because of that. I'd like to get a bit more depth to the soundstage and more finesse in the overall presentation. 
 

Depending on the tube amp I’d highly recommend the Joseph Audio Perspective 2.  Not overly sensitive but a relatively benign impedance curve and low phase angles and in your room should work very well with many tube amps.  They throw a deep 3D soundstage like few others and pull off a disappearing act surpassed by none IME.  BTW I’d cross ATC off your list given your amp requirements.  ProAc, QLN, Vandersteen, and DeVore also worth a good look I’d think, but if you can audition the Perspective 2s I think they may really change your, um, perspective.  Best of luck. 

If you really want musical go with the best Sonus Fabers you can afford, used or new. Personally I would recommend Serafinos if you can find a used pair in your price range.

Here are some high value speakers that fit in your budget.... They can serve as end game speakers for many guys.

Mofi Sourcepoint 888.      $5000

GR Research Bully.            $6000 (factory finished)

Technics SB-G90M2.        $6000

Tekton Encore.                   $7500

Yamaha NS-2000A.           $8000

Magnepan 3.7i.                  $9000

Wharfedale Elysian 4.       $10,000

Borresen X3.                      $11,000

Yamaha NS5000.              $15,000

KEF Reference 3 Meta.     $15,000

@mijostyn -- Sir, I like the way you think. To the vast, VAST, majority of music lovers, the Klipsch Cornwall IV’s are an endgame, end of the search, speaker. I know the deal with Klipsch -- they are either revered or despised by members of this Forum. I love them.  I have Forte II's, Heresy II's, and (soon) La Scalla's.  But be honest. The community on this Forum are a mere fraction of 1% of the listening public and consumers of audio gear. I’m a "To Each His Own" and "Live And Let Live" kind of guy, always have been. Spend your money how you and your conscious want to spend it. But I still shake my head at times at the threads on this site and the debates they create: "No don’t buy XYZ integrated amp (at $60,000), buy LMNOP separates (at $80,000)" or "I’m looking for new speakers. My Magico S7’s just don’t have the soundstage I’m looking for."

Your suggestion is the most reasonable idea I’ve seen. Again, you’ve got Cornwall IV’s and you’ve done some awesome modifications on an already awesome speaker. Maybe, just maybe, some modifications (Room Correction, EQ Processors) to the signal and you will find the Nirvana (not the band) you are looking for. Sounds a lot more sane and less expensive than chasing an entire new speaker system that you may or may not like. Try your suggestion first, and if the desired sound can’t be achieved by the signal modifications, then start looking at new speakers. Just adding my nickel to your 2 cents worth.

No mention of the recent release of one of the PS Audio Aspen speakers. Worth considering. FR10 or FR20 

You mentioned Vandersteen in your list and at the price point you're looking at with your room size, I'd recommend a pair of Quattro Wood CTs. They might press your budget a little bit but if what your looking for is imaging and depth they'll have it in spades. They are not too fiddly with set up, if you buy them from a reputable dealer then they'll usually come set them up. They have built in room tunable subs as well so bass management is not udally an issue. Also, since the bass is not in the picture for your amps, despite a sensitivity I the high 80s, they're really quite an easy load. They're not trendy or the newest greatest thing but what they are is excelle t loudspeakers. I've had mine for 8 years now and have no interest in upgrading unless I can go up their line to the Kento or maybe a used 5. I've changed every other component and with each upgrade the speakers just get better. 

I do like my aspen fr 30 all aspens are hard to find used but I did find a pair.they sound great.i run them with bhk 600 found it used as well.they do have a trade in program.check thier web site. I have some klipsch ps takes alot more watts.enjoy the hint.you can visit ps audio and listen 

@allenf1963 The thing is, I have rescued several systems this way, just by inserting one of these digital preamps. People do not realize how much their room and channel deviation interferes with a proper image and impulse response. I have never heard a system that could not be improved and in terms of satisfaction, it is off the charts. it is an easy recommendation because it works 100% of the time. 

The most important factor of all is not necessarily what speaker you chose--it's where you place it.  Suggest you use something close to the Cardas suggestion of placing speakers 1/3 of the room depth from the front wall, listening position at the 2/3 mark..  That will give you the depth and bloom you are after.

Take a look at Joseph Crowe Audio. Troy, the owner,  makes beautiful custom horns, several at your price point, and they sound magnificent. He is a well respected and his work has gotten great reviews. Two reviews that I can point to are Don Sachs and the ‘Jays Iyagi’ YouTube channel. 

contact Danny at GR research and tell him what you are willing to spend ask him to design your mega system this ought to be good! LOL 

I own ATC SCM 40’s. I recommend them above all the speakers listed in this discussion, especially if you get the powered versions. I have them in a similar sized room. They are easy to place in the room and provide excellent imaging and simulation of depth. They are very easy to drive. They have a bigger sweet spot than your speakers and most especially, the Voltis, which also can sound congested in the high frequencies at higher volumes. 

I've been looking at Philharmonic Audio, specifically the BMR Towers.

From your system photos it looks like your speakers are very close to the wall with your equipment rack placed between them. These factors alone could be contributing to the lack of depth you described. I have never owned Klipsch speakers, so I have no knowledge of how placement affects their sound. Still, have you tried pulling them out into the room? You may have to do so with the new speakers you choose to get the best out of them, so you might as well give it a try with what you have. Best of luck!

I would consider adding Sonus Faber to your list. You can find used Serafinos in your price range. I have never heard more lifelike spatial speakers. 

You should check out the monitor audio platinum series they are very three-dimensional Airy and spacious and have a very enveloping sound stage, they make you feel like you're right in the middle of the performance. I have the monitor audio platinum 200 ll and I absolutely love them, I have not heard another speaker at any price that throws as huge as sound stage, it just envelops the whole room.

You should look at the monitor audio platinum series as well much better than the Wharfedale flagships, they are very three-dimensional airy and spacious and are very neutral sounding, The sound stage is very enveloping it will wrap around the whole room and make you feel like you're right in the middle of the performance.

Tannoy or Fyne can be a logical next step from Klipsch, especially if looking for more refinement in presentation.

I had the Cornwall IV for some months last year. They did some things very well and were always a fun listen. I had to have them pretty close to the walls to get what I’d call respectable bass out of them. 
 

I picked up a pair of Paradigm Founder 120H after that while I still had them. Went back and forth for a few weeks and the Paradigms were definite keepers. If you can find a place to check them out I think you might be very surprised. The 120H in particular does not need a lot of power because of the powered woofers from 300hz down. They are dynamic monsters and refined to boot. I’m running a Pass Labs xa 30.5 with them now and the needle doesn’t move no matter how hard I push them. 

I have owned & thoroughly enjoyed my Volti Rivals for almost 3 years. I heard them at the Capitol Audiofest & bought the show pair after a few different listening sessions & comparing them to what I heard at a few other speaker companies including Klipsch. They strike a good balance of big, open, very dynamic & effortless sound yet still quite detailed, image well height & width wise ( ok on depth) & sound more like live music that most speakers out there. They’re also fairly easy to set up & get sounding very good. As they’re very sensitive, they don’t require heroic amplification to sound excellent although if you enjoy music up loud in a big room such as yours, a good quality 20- 40 watts / side would  probably be advisable for big peaks. 
 

There are many speakers in their price range that are a bit more detailed & bat range extended on the high end, can plumb the depths of sub 30hz bass ( although most likely no where near as tight & dynamic from 30 - 60 hz where it mostly counts anyway) & can pinpoint image better than the Rivals. If those are essential, then another speaker is probably a better choice. If you’re like myself where a good amount of those features are important but also want to be able to easily kick ass w/ big, live sound at realistic volume levels, the Volti’s should be given serious consideration. 

@jbhiller If you're open to further modding the Cornwalls changing out the inductors was extremely worthwhile, stock Klipsch not so good. I went to Jantzens, higher resolving, greater transparency, more natural timbre.

Klipsch Heritage can image if correct mods to speaker undertaken, room and setup optimized. High racks between speakers is no, no, diffusion on front wall is a good start. I've owned both box and open baffle speakers placed well out into room, my Klipschorns don't lack in depth of sound stage even though required placement has them right up against front wall in corner, I do have bay window between speakers which obviously serves to help in providing sound stage depth.

In regard to replacement speaker, assuming you like the horn presentation I'd stick with horns. As for myself, I know all about never saying never, but my Klipschorns are my end game speakers. Horns all about presence, you get an overwhelming sense of performers in room that is simply intoxicating for me. High resolution/transparency, dynamics inherent to the design. Get the imaging, sound staging and timbre right, you can have it all.

There are a lot of things to love about the Klipsch Heritage speakers and I'm certainly a fan. And I think they do image better than most people give them credit. But it's not their strong suit. I have owned many other speakers that have better depth and separation. You just have to accept it for what it is.

Certainly there are certain designed in limitations with wide baffles of stock Klipsch Heritage. All the more reason to really pay attention to physical setup of system in room. Close to wall positioning in order to reinforce bass will compromise imaging, sound staging, pulling out from wall means opposite compromises. Only cure if keeping Corwalls is adding subs or dsp (equalization).

I had Cornwall IVs pulled off the wall about 3 ft using dual 15" subs. Yeah, the imaging was better in that position but still not as good as non horn speakers.

@sns ​​​​@ozzy62 ,

I use two REL subs, fine tuned nicely where you cannot tell there are in the system--unless I turn them off. I play in a couple of bands and my ear is pretty darn good at integrated a sub to taste. They help immensely. 

SNS, can you shoot me a PM with the inductor values on the CWIV crossover?  I never tested them. I'd be curious to the values and what you used. I may tried (just because and for fun).  I also may try to dampen the cabinet further.  I didn't go hog wild on that because, like Harbeth, the cabinet might be part of the sonic signature. 

No mention of the recent release of one of the PS Audio Aspen speakers. Worth considering. FR10 or FR20 

+1 @sgordoxyz , The FR10 @ $10,000 which still gets the pm midrange would be considered high value in OP's budget. 

@zuesman , Yes, I have high respect for Monitor Audio. I owned a pair of studio bookshelf monitors in the late 1990s that I felt were so much better than B&W 805s that I lusted after. Monitor Audio does, just like you say, ride a nice line between musical and analytical. 

I've heard the Platinum 200s in some generation a few years back and liked them. I'll put them on the list too. 

Borresen x3, Technic SB g90 M2, or Encore Tekton.

When I got my Cornwalls they were completely lined inside with No Rez from GR Research. I removed the No Rez from 1 speaker and compared to the other one. I much preferred the non No Rezzed cabinet. The No Rez sucked the life and mid bass out of the speaker. It did however seem to extend the lower bass noticeably. YMMV. 

@mofojo 

Makes perfect sense. I over damped the mid horn in a pair of khorns once and had to remove some of it. Too much of a good thing sometimes.

jbhiller,

The monitor audio platinums are on a whole different level, they're one of the very few speakers that can throw a huge three-dimensional sound stage that envelopes the whole room and makes you feel like you're right in the middle of the performance there's not too many speakers that can do that, not Magico not Rockport, not Wilson and many other very expensive speakers, the platinums will best speakers costing two to three times as much.Their driver technology is way ahead of a lot of other high-end companies.

++++++++1 for Volti speakers. I have a friend that is a long time Klipsch guy, and in fact spent thousands and thousands of dollars modifying his speakers to the point where they sounded really good.

He now owns Volti Razz speakers in his second system, and Volti Luceras in his main system. Better than any Klipsch stock or modified I have ever heard (and it is not even close), and the Luceras are magic. I will add another pair of speakers in 2025 or 2026, and the Luceras will be in the final list. I have never heard the Volti Rivals, but I suspect they will be out of my price range anyway

The Fyne speakers can be really really good, but the models I would like (Vintage 10 or Vintage 15) are out of my price range.....but I prefer them to new Tannoy models.

Have you considered corner horns?  Volti has a Khorn upgrade kit that added to a used pair of khorns will be in budget and compete with the best.  That was my plan but my corner horns sounded so good that I focused on all the electronics instead and am saving the upgrade till last.  Mine are about 18 feet apart and fill the whole space like no other speaker I've heard

If you already have heavily modded Khorns and still want more, I'm going to jump on the "work on the listening room" bandwagon or the electronic equivalent by measuring room response and figuring out how best to improve it with PEQ. In the 'buy another pair of speaker' camp I will go on record saying Khorns are among the best sounding speakers I have ever heard in stock form Circa 1980. I put in the same category Ohm As. The current model Ohm F5 is a worthy contender according Evan at Ohm loudspeakers, he says the F5 is even better than the Ohm A that preceded it. I cannot vouch for the F5 but the Ohm A sounded better to me than the Khorns with the kind of soundstage that you want. You may not know how much you want it, but trust me You want what Ohm offers. Before making that kind of investment, I suggest you find someone within reasonable distance to audition a pair of Ohms of any size or age so you can experience the soundstage. I very much like my Ohm 2000s especially because of the soundstage. I think you will too. Give Evan a call, his number is listed on their website.

@jbhiller, looking at your room, I would place the rack and the gear along a side wall, and add some acoustical material throughout the room. IME, you are getting many 1st reflection points, holding back your depth of soundstage you want more of. I always see the room set up 1st, as a bottleneck to getting better sound, specifically in your case imaging and sound staging. I would not change my Lascalas for any speaker mentioned about, as there is something very special about the bass quality from the doghouses (just like Gregs Vittora). I love the Lascala design and work around the weaknesses of the design. I would recommend the new Lascala if you want to upgrade, and you already have your Rels. Every speaker has a "sound and a presentation", and how they work in your room, will determine how far you can take them. I hope I did not offend you in any way. The room and the gear are very nice...Khorns would work well, too. My best to you, always, MrD.