I've been on the hunt now for a several years, attempting to find speakers that match the criteria of having good bass and soft, warm treble output. A good liquid midrange with good texture and timbre separation is another top priority. The speakers I have owned and tried:
Paradigm Studio 60 v3 LSA 1 Standard Edition Monitors Totem Staff Golden Ear Triton 3 Vandersteen 2ce Sig ii Tekton Pendragon Acoustic Zen Adagio Spatial Audio Hologram M3 Turbo S
Out of all of those, the most enjoyable due to warmest sound signature was the LSA 1 monitors. Of course those were the most deficient in bass out of that entire list. Contrary to that, the Golden Ear Triton 3 had the best bass (obviously, due to the built-in powered subs). The Adagios had the best detail and least distortion, but were a bit too analytical in the end for my tastes.
So far, surprisingly, the speakers that seem to get the best blend of everything for my tastes have been the Paradigm Studio 60 v3. These are not "reference level" speakers by any means, but they achieve a nice balance of detail, dynamics, bass, and have a surprisingly good midrange. Unfortunately, the pesky metal dome tweeter has gotten on my last nerve during many listening sessions.
I am trying to stay in the price range of the aforementioned speakers. What suggestions do you all have for speakers that can meet this criteria for a smooth, dynamic, and warm sound?
What's the rest of your system ? Can you please list the components in order to better offer up some suggestions, or at least point you in the right direction?
what you are seeking -- warm treble and good bass -- is a product of system synergy produced by the whole kit , as the components all have their respective sonic signatures.
Rogue Audio Chronus Magnum II Integrated Tube Amp PS Audio DirectStream DAC Acoustic Zen Satori Speaker Cables
As for the Pendragons, I felt that they had too much of an "up front" sound in the midrange, at least in my listening room. The cabinets in them resonate quite a lot, and they really load the room with sound. I think ideally you need a massive room to use them comfortably. They did have excellent bass and a smooth treble, however.
Sounds like you may want to go British. Monitor Audio is a good place to start. Their metal domes are a lot easier to get along with, IMHO. Whatever resonance they may have is far out of band.
I published a kit that you would also really like, free and online, but with a 5" woofer it's going to be a little bass shy.
Would’ve thought the Vandys would check all your boxes. What didn’t you like about them? Others to check out would be Silverline Prelude and Nola Boxer or a used pair of Joseph Audio RM7s if you can find them (my personal pick of the bunch FWIW). There’s also a demo pair of Selah monitors for sale here that might be worth a look. I had a different monitor of theirs in my system for a bit and that ribbon tweeter is detailed but very smooth and refined sounding. Best of luck.
They make music. You are not going to say wow listen to that high hat or listen to that great sounding piano. Do you say that at a concert? I dont think so. Because the music fits together as a whole not as highlighted parts.
They are every bit as detailed and deep but they blend it together
Other manufactures seemly try to overpower the music by enhancing treble and adding resonating bass. They sound good for a short time. They you are looking for. Something else.
Monitor Audio may be an option, but I do recall hearing them at an audio show once, and they seemed to be more detail-oriented rather than musical.
I wasn't able to get good bass out of the Vandersteens for some reason. They also sounded a tad bright to me, contrary to everyone telling me they should sound smooth. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
The Aerial Acoustics looks very nice, but looks like they are a bit out of my price range at the moment.
I'm very surprised at your impression of the Vandys. I'd seriously question the setup and associated equipment if it was at a dealer. Not what I associatiate with the Vandy 2s at all, although I'm sure you heard what you heard. I'd give them another chance.
BTW, I strongly agree with Erik's recommendation above about British monitors. I just didn't think of them dammit. Go hear some Harbeths or Spendors, although you'd probably have to buy used and they probably won't be the last word in bass at your price point. But what they do right may far outweigh that for you. Also like the Dynaudio recommendation. You've got lots of good recommendations here. Hope you can go out and hear a bunch of them.
+1 soix, I am also a bit surprised at the OP's take on the Vandy’s. They have always sounded warm and punchy when I have heard them.
Dynaudio is a good recommendation. Also, if looking used, look for a pair of Soliloquy speakers. Vienna Acoustics and Sonus Faber may also be worth listening to.
A pair of Alon Lotus SE speakers should be just your ticket especially with the Rogue Audio Chrome Magnum int. tube amp. There is a pair for sale over at Usaudiomart for $1000 which is a downright steal. (no affiliation with the seller, just a long time Alon Lotus SE user)
Speakers that I have heard that lean towards what you are asking for are what has been mentioned Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand Harbeth 7, 30, 5 Dynaudio Focus 220
I kinda thought the Aerials were out of the price range too. So I bought the b&wcm6s2. Highly rated you can look up the reviews. But they try to impress too much. After 8 months I went bad to listen to the Aerials. Now I am going to trade up.
Were you ever feel sorry you ever spent too much on audio? i dont know anyone that felt that way.
I would audition the Monitor Audio line again if I were you... I’ve had Paradigm for 20+ years and now have Monitors and think the sound you are looking for describes them very well... I can tell you for a fact that the Monitor Silver 8s are much better in every way than the V3 of the Studio 60s
yeah but monitor audio can be hot in highs,but might be pair very well with tube amp,dynaudio contour le will fit the bill but they don't mate well with tube amp harbeth and spendor will mate very well with tube amp,but the bass will be problem
@steakster I agree that your satisfaction with speakers is bound to change when you clean up your power. I found power quality to be more important than speaker cables, which make less of a difference versus power quality. (I use PS Audio Power plants.)
I also have a Rogue "Cronus Magnum+" and it sounded great with Avalon Acoustics "Eidolon" speakers (AntiCables speaker cables). Since the Rogue, I’ve also run Ayon Audio "Triton III"s and Raven Audio "Blackhawk LE". I found the Rogue to have a wonderful sound, but it has a discernible noise floor versus either the Ayon or Raven. I would attribute that to the premier quality of the parts (especially the resistors and caps, along with transformer shielding) of the Raven and Ayon. I could be wrong, and it could have been my tubes, but I did roll a few through the Rogue so... (Note: Rogue is a GREAT bargain at it’s price point, even more so used, plus it’s made in the USA ...same as Raven.)
I’d start with my power, the I’d try out different speakers. I recently listened to the Harbeth Super HL5 plus and also the Monitor 30.1 and 40.2 -- all are wonderful speakers. I am absolutely dying to hear the Harbeths with the Raven amp, that might become my next home office system. (The Ayon Triton seems to be in love with the Avalon Eidolon speakers...)
Dynaudio a great choice. Excellent quality speakers that will never sound too cold but rather anywhere from to neutral to a TAD warm depending on what is fed to them. Gotta have an amp up top the task of driving them optimally though for best results.
I think the Eminent Technology LFT-8b speakers would work great with your amp. My dealer sells both products (Rogue and Eminent Tech) and they really are amazing paired together. I find the LFT-8b’s to be very neutral with amazing detail and somewhat laid back presentation. One of the best attributes is that they have basically no distortion. The bass detail is great and they go low (25hz). The tweeter also has 3 output settings to tailor the sound. They also sound great a lower listening levels, which I find most speakers fail. Just my experience, thought I would share. The one negative is speaker placement can be fussy.
Wow lots of replies here, this is great, thanks all. Lots to respond to.
One thing that I have seen mentioned a few times is cleaning up my power supply. This is something I have been considering for a while, although at the moment I'm not sure I can come up with the cash for speakers *and* a good power regenerator. I am currently using my old trusty PS Audio UPC-200 for basic filtering, which does help, but I would like to end up with a PS Audio P3 or P5.
I am currently auditioning a pair of the Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S. One of them arrived with a broken woofer, so I'm not sure that I am getting a true representation of their sound. The replacement is being delivered this Friday, so I should know more in a couple weeks after it breaks in. My impressions of the M3 Turbo S so far is that they have excellent coherency, soundstage, detail, and bass, but the treble may not be to my tastes either. They use a compression driver, which from everything I read said it was supposed to sound smooth, but I've been having fatigue issues. I really do think I need to address the power thing though, as I will never know if these issues are due to the speakers, or just the fact that the speakers are extended enough in the treble to reveal issues with hash and grain.
The Vienna Acoustics have been on my radar for several years, but I never followed through with them. My concern with those would be the bass.
Electrostats like the Martin Logan may be good, but again, not sure how the bass would be on those unless I moved way up the line or had a very powerful amp, which I currently do not own. The Summits are way out of my price range I'm afraid.
Dynaudio have always been interesting to me as well. Not sure if there is a place near me to audition them. My Rouge integrated can output I believe up to 100 watts if using the KT 120 tubes, not sure if that will suffice.
Is it possible something in your room is creating high freq issues? Some sorta reflection? Have you auditioned any systems in a well treated room? BTW I am currently cleaning up my power and seeing improvements with highs.
Roll the dice and choose one from the many speakers suggested above. My guess is it won't matter as you are stuck in the "something must be better" mode. New speakers will only provide temporary relief for that itch.
Aniwolfe’s ET LFT-8b suggestion is a good one. The speaker has a 3-position tweeter switch (x/o frequency 10kHz!), the low setting providing the soft highs you desire. Some speakers sound the opposite of soft not because of frequency response and balance, but because of distortion. The ET is unusually low in distortion, one reason for it lacking hardness.
The LFT-8b is not a pure dipole, having an 8" woofer in a sealed enclosure. The x/o from woofer to magnetic-planar midrange panel is a 6dB/octave 1st order design located at 180Hz. The woofer is critically-damped, and integrates very well with the panel. With a x/o at 180Hz and 10kHZ, the panel reproduces all the sound between those two frequencies!
The LFT-8b, like all dipoles, requires a minimum of about 3’ between it and the wall behind it, and more is better.
There are a pair of the ET’s on U.S. Audiomart right now, at an asking price of $1800 ($2500 retail), located in N. Washington State.
Some great suggestions to mull over on speakers, but may I ask what tube compliment you have in your integrated? Have you experimented with different tubes? I know another can of worms to open, but like others have said, something fundamental sounds amiss, after going through all those quite respectable speakers and still coming up wanting... That or possibly your listening room is too "live" and you are getting some unwanted reflections.
Based on your requirements, I highly recommend trying to audition the Epos Elan or Epic series. The speakers do have a somewhat utilitarian look, but they are extremely good for their modest price.
I own a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 8s and use them with a Rogue Audio Sphinx. The MAs do have a warm treble despite being metal dome, and they do resolve a little more detail than the Epos, but the Epos are considerably more musical. I own a pair of Epos Epic 2s as well. They are such great speakers that I can't imagine ever getting rid of them. They also have better bass than many small floor standers, despite being bookshelves. EPOS speakers are rated at 4 ohm, but for practical purposes, they're closer to 6 ohms. You could probably get away with running them off the 8 ohm taps of your Cronus with no issues.
I have two suggestions, both of which are no longer made. Since you will be forced to buy used you will be getting a super value!
1. Aerial 10t - Just a fantastic all around speaker. You should pay about $2,000 for a pair in good condition. Requires lots of power to get the best performance.
2. Sonus Faber Luito - very warm, almost romantic sound with good solid base for its size. Much more recent than the Aerial. Expect to pay around $2,500 for some in excellent condition.
We seem to be having a similar problem with speakers I've been going through many over the last few years. I really regret selling my ProAc's response 2.5's and they did everything your looking for probably the best speaker I have owned in regards to just enjoying music great bass great mids and a tweeter that didn't kill you. I hear thier newer stuff is quite good. I've tried the AudioNote ANe's and liked them but traded them as I just wasn't listening to music as much as I thought I should. I'm currently enjoying some Living Voice Avatar 2's but they are quite expensive in the US/Canada. I have heard as some one else mentions the PMC twenty series and they are quite nice but could be a bit too detailed. I tried some Devour gibbon 8's and found them tiring and to be honest heard them directly beside some Dyna's and the Dynaudios were much smoother and enjoyable. I would look for some used Proac's still miss them the most for their musicality and the ability to play deep base
I must also mention that I was surprised at a couple speakers you mentioned as being too bright. I agree that evaluating room acoustics is a good idea.
One thing I've noticed about metal dome tweeters, however good or warm, is that they always sound more analytical than fabric domes. IMO, any metal dome tweeter is going to sound less musical overall compared to a fabric dome. This is just my personal experience. I think people often associate their analytical sound with brightness. I do like some metal dome tweeters, though only because I'm a bit of a detail whore.
Some good recommendations already. I am surprised the Harbeths and Spendors weren't on your original list. They seem to be exactly what you are looking for. I also have found the Aerials excellent, and in the way you are looking for.
As to acoustics, if you haven't taken care of the first reflection points on the walls and eliminated any slap echo in the room as well, you are on a fool's errand, as no speaker will perform anywhere near its potential.
I have found my Acoustic Energy AE109s have a warm treble and solid bass. The soft dome tweeter and ported dual mid-bass drivers deliver the characteristics you are seeking with either tubes or solid-state amplification.
Look at the Zingali range. They are hand made in Italy and use a wooden horn. Deigned for tube amps with low output they are superbly smooth and great bass but have the detail and speed of a horn without the forward or harshness you are concerned about.
And of course the midrange is magical. Look good too.
I am surprised there is not a single recommendation for B&W. I have a small listening room and I am running an old pair of B&W 602’s. They definitely tick all of the boxes you mention. I have tried many different speakers and gone through tons of amps and integrated/receivers and they just sound great with everything.
I recently found a great deal on an open box set of the newer CM series from B&W and after auditioning them, they sounded almost identical to the 602’s. Slightly better detail. VERY slight, but not $1000 better. I returned them.
At this point I am considering stepping up to the 805. Typically in the $1600-$2000 range when used. I have also strongly considered the Ascend Sierras because of the huge number of recommendations. I like the sound of the Paradigms too.
The last few months I have been in the "I have to upgrade mindset." But as I sit here listening to my current system, drinking my coffee and reading Audiogon, I think I have finally calmed the urge. What I have sounds damn good. Good luck on the never ending quest :)
Add a JL audio E-110 to any mid priced speaker you've mentioned. Astounding! Will make more of a difference than going from a $2k/pair speaker to a $5k/pair. A year ago I added this to Vandy 2's, and WOW!!!! None of these speakers reproduce the bottom octave. Most people don't even realize all the music that simply isn't being reproduced at all.
Studio Electric speakers are voiced in that way. Down just a little bit in the 3-4 kHz range to take the edge off, up a bit in the "air" range above 12kHz.
You seem to have my exact tastes for non-fatiguing,
non-analytical sound with deep, warm bass. I purchased a preowned pair of Thiel
CS3.6 on Audiogon for $1200 about 6 years ago and no other speaker I have
tried comes close for my taste. I recently tried the Revel Ultima Salon2s and
before that, the Focal Electra 1037 Be speakers and they seemed to lack the
warm, wide soundstage I get with the Thiels. I currently drive these with an
Audio Research Ref 150 amp, Ref 5 preamp and Modwright tube modified Oppo BDP
105, all plugged into a PS Audio P5 Power Plant. Some might say your 100 tube
watts is not enough power for the Thiels, but I previously used the Thiels with
the integrated 60 watts per channel Audio Research VIi60 tube amp with nearly
equally good results. You really owe it to yourself to try these. I see a pair
for sale on Audiogon now, but it looks like one of the drivers has a dented
dust cover.
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