50-60-70 year old ears stating with certainty that what they hear is proof positive of the efficacy of analog, uber-cables, tweaks...name your favorite latest and greatest audio "advancement." How many rock concerts under the bridge? Did we ever wear ear protection with our chain saws? Believe what you will, but hearing degrades with age and use and abuse. To pontificate authority while relying on damaged goods is akin to the 65 year old golfer believing his new $300 putter is going to improve his game. And his game MAY get better, but it is the belief that matters. Everything matters, but the brain matters the most.
"Point being to encourage more humility and less dogmatism. "
Right. So, what is more dogmatic? Saying trust your own ears, let them tell you what you hear, on your own system in your own room using your own judgement combined with years of experience figuring what kind of sound you like and knowing how to attain that? Or is it the measurement pushers? If there is no measurement difference then there is no difference?I can't see how saying "try it, see if you like it" is dogmatic. Saying "Why would I try it, it doesn't measure any different" is considerably more so.And the naysayers who have not tried, and who use some kind of "science" to justify their closed minded beliefs? Do you need the sugar content of two different Granny Smith apples to know they taste different?
Dogmatic...
I recently finished building a heavy plinth Lenco L70. Last week when I put it into my system, I put it quickly on some large half round sorbothane "bits". (Have not yet decided if I'm using springs, roller blocks or some kind of pod) After doing my tonearm set up, I was finally able to actually listen to the TT. Was lacking in dynamics. Pulled the sorbothane and replaced with some spikes I fabricated quickly using baltic birch, steel spikes and aluminum bases. Huge difference.
Old ears?
I can hear the second hand of my watch sweep through my pillow.
And I know what to listen for in my system.
Perhaps, you should consider approaching this subject with a bit more humility...
desert3813 posts04-21-2021 11:44amI am 61 and get my hearing checked as part of my annual physical. The nurses always comment that my results are comparable to a teenager. I am one of those that claims to hear a difference between stock power cables and speaker cables. I can’t tell you what you can hear, but I can hear a difference. Isn’t that what really matters? There is no wrong or right.
I'm sure I could also hear a difference between stock power cables and speaker cables, although I've got to admit I've never considered comparing them as they each have their own distinct purposes.
Are any of you seriously suggesting that your senses have improved after the age of 25? You can see, and smell, and touch, and taste better in your 50's, 60's, or 70's?! Really?
So, of 5 senses, 4 are certainly down. Yet, some of you claim that you can hear better at 50+? That's, with all due respect, delusional.
As a younger member here (just turned 40) and only being in the hobby for 10 years or so - I get JPWarren's point - some of you are so convinced that some latest breakthrough technology makes things so much better, but when questioned about it, the person claiming they can't hear a difference is ridiculed and told they 1) Can't hear 2) Their system sucks or 3) Their room or some other variable must be at play. Instead of, just maybe, that latest and greatest thing, really not having an impact.
A lot of you think that cables make such a huge difference. But, where is the data? And I don't mean the objective measured tests (Where it's claimed it can't be measured) but just the observations? Where is the test in a room with uncut video where 10 out of 10 people can identify cable 1 or 2 being used each time?
Is it really the 30 year old can't hear that well, or is it just maybe, the older guy wants to prove he isn't that gullible and has to put others down to justify what he perceives as being better since he spent so much?
Not claiming we can hear better, just that we can listen better.
No one is claiming "Huge differences", just differences.
No one tweak is coming to shatter your audio experience, however, when all put together, they add up to something more.
You know, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts? And a big thing is just a lot of little things put together?
What of any of these tweaks have you tried?
And what are you doing on this forum if you are not open to experimenting with these things? Western empirical logic is not the be all and end all of existence...
You are obviously a realist that doesn't fall for "subjectivity" of spending large amounts of cash wishing the tweak will actually deliver the audio nirvana that's advertised. The atmospheric conditions of the room will have more impact on the sound quality than a good quality 12 ga copper speaker cable. Ohms Law plays by a different set of rules than waves through a gas of variable density.
@Perki - totally respect your point and fair question. But I respectfully disagree with you - some do claim HUGE differences. And if one part can't be determined to be better, than how would the sum of those parts be better? (0 + 0 = 0.) If they can't be determined on their own, than how can a combination of them make it better? (I hope I was able to articulate that okay... If not, my apologies in advance.)
And, I'm open to it. But, I have been bashed for my own experience which, is no change in my system. It's something wrong with my ears, or my 30k system, or my room - or my inexperience. I'm absolutely open to an A/B test. (And I have done them.... often times thinking I heard an initial improvement but, when blind tested, I can't tell.)
People who are older may have less hearing acuity but have more experience.
I spoke to Fremer recently, he said I may not hear as well as I used to but I listen better than ever.
I think that about sums it up. It’s always good to have someone with more experience point you in a direction. Right or wrong for you, that’s another story entirely.
@jpeters568. I’ve brought this up many time to help illustrate my point. Take two capacitors from two different manufacturers, exact same specs, exact same measurements. Sound different. Do the same with two tubes. They sound different.
Shouldnt matter, I agree, but yet, it does. Why? Don’t know, don’t care. If I replace something, or change something up, I live with it for a while. Then I consider what is missing, or what there is perhaps too much of. Then I make a change again and listen for changes.
If you are watching a film of poor video quality, after a little while you don’t notice that bad quality so much. The mind compensates - especially if it’s a film that has captured your interest.
Same holds true for sound. If I’m trying to tune a bookshelf speaker after having been listening to electrostatics, it’s going to cause some problems. So, I live with them for a while, let my brain adjust before I listen critically and attempt to make changes.
@perkri - first - thanks for engaging and teaching me something. I really do appreciate it! I can't speak to rolling tubes or changing capacitors, I have absolutely no experience with either. But I have experience swapping out components which has made a difference. But it's immediate and I do an A/B right there and then and can hear the differences. (And with components at least, it's obvious - cables - not so much.) But, that's a 1+0 sum to get somewhere better.
I don't understand why you have to have time between them - unless you mean just adjusting to something new. Yes, ribbons are different than boxes, etc. So I can see that with speakers and their designs, but electronics? Cables? Are you just adjusting to the sound, or is it a +1 difference?
In the grand scheme of audio systems...less is more. The more tweaks you put in the system, the more hurdles that need to be jumped. My favorite music system for years is CD/DVD/computer player through passive volume control straight to power amp through 12 gauge copper to speakers.
The quality of the recording dictates the quality of the playback. Buy better software.
I was born the 2nd year of president Harry S. Truman`s administration 1946 and I can also hear a pin drop. In fact as the pin falls I can hear by way of my Pass XP30 preamp Pass XP350 power amp and my Magnepan 3.6`s (aka) maggies the velocity of the drop you don`t know you best as somebody Oorah.
Elliot Scheiner, Bob Ludwig, Bob Clearmountain...know who those guys are? I bet they can't hear a pin drop either...I'd prefer the opinions of Richard Vandersteen over most any young audio geek, and likely so would you. I rarely say this but, seriously, this is a really dumb topic.
I've seen Iron Maiden 4 times not once with ear protection. Yes I am a complete zipperhead. My 3rd time was @ MSG in 2016 and my ears literally rang for 4 days. I have lost quite a bit of trust in my ears, but it was so worth it, LOL!
But I can still hear well enough to hear that sweet sound of my Dynaudios and know when I added my Bifrost 2 there was a huge audible improvement!
Possibly of interest: "We propose that age-related hearing loss may be associated with poor micronutrient status. Two of the most common vitamin inadequacies in the elderly are vitamin B-12 and folate (15).....The cochlea of the inner ear is where much of the hearing loss in the elderly is believed to occur (23). The cochlea is highly vascularized and is supported by a single artery. High homocysteine concentrations associated with low vitamin B-12 status, low folate status, or both were shown to be a risk factor for cerebral, coronary, and peripheral vascular disease (24). Perhaps high homocysteine concentrations associated with poor vitamin B-12 or folate status also adversely affect blood flow to the cochlea. Low vitamin B-12 status may also impair myelination of the neurons in the cochlear nerve...." https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/69/3/564/4694205
Thank you for being open to considering these things.
I live with changes, adjustments, components in my system for a while so as to become numb to the changes. I need to hear the thing for what it is, what I like and what I dislike. That takes some time for my brain to shift to the new norm. Then I make changes.
It's not like its a lot of work anyway, I'm always listening to something be that radio - while working or driving, my DAP if on the subway or traveling, mostly vinyl when "enjoying music" and for convenience (and cost), digital when I try to seek out new music.
Did some listening tests - speed listening yes - to a bunch of vintage amps that a friend had going through his place for one reason or another. Differences were not subtle. Ranging from bright and thin, to dark and bloated, from dynamic to a bit flat. It also happens that he has a ton of speakers in his place of differing designs, styles and sizes. (which I built). The "winner" of the amps, the one we preferred changed with which speaker it was mated with. So, decisions were made about which amp should stay based on removing the least interesting one of the bunch as well as the most "exciting". Interesting side note. I built him a pair of 8" full range horns (took some convincing as his main speakers were British stand mounts) My reasoning was I could build him another 3 way, but why? He already has one, why not go in a completely different direction and see what you think? He agreed to the 74"X14"X17" double back loaded horns. Are they particularly "accurate" from a measurement stand point? No. I also convinced him to buy a Heathkit tube amp from 1963, as a cheap experiment. I replaced the main power cap for him to get rid of the severe hiss, that was it. Again, flawed? for sure! However, the synergy between the big horns and that little 8watt amp is stunning. So much air moving, so open and transparent, so lively and present, yet in no way fatiguing at all.
In that set up, he was running some rather "cheap" interconnects. I built some new wires for him (nothing extravagant, but properly made) and they did reduce the noise (better shielding) and were more "open"in the presentation.
A lot of gear has gone through his place during the past year (covid...) but the Heathkit and the double horns remain. But, they can not be used as a reference tool, because their signature is so unique. He has 10 pairs of various enclosures for 4" drivers. They are all vastly different. The electronics are for sure the biggest part of the listening, tweaks to a lesser degree for me, but it all matters and all adds up.
After spending time setting up a system, tweaks and all, if you were to suddenly remove all the little details, there would be a void left in the sonics.
Tweaks are not something that have to be overcome!
Lets see... The components need to sit on top of something. Hmmm, do they sit atop a rickety old chair, or a solid platform?
Tweak one...
Now, to better control vibration, both inside and outside of the gear, some kind of isolation would be useful.
Tweak two...
These things all run on electricity. Not sure how clean the power is in my place, so some kind of protection/filter is likely a good idea.
Tweak three...
Now, I have to connect these components to the power. I'm going to get a well made cord that uses good materials and is properly assembled as opposed to some wire that was thrown together with plastic encasing it which was done by a giant machine designed to produce the most cost effective product possible.
Tweak four...
Now, I have to run the signal from the source to my amplifier. Now I know that small electrical signals are subject to interference from electrical noise, so I'm going to get some good interconnects that are shielded to preserve the integrity of that tiny signal. Don't want it getting muddied or distorted by this noise.
Tweak five...
My speakers are stand mounts. Going to need to put them on something. That sideboard is not such a great idea, its a big open box, and I'm sure the sound isn't going to benefit from that big open "bass bas" underneath. Stands are probably a good idea.
Tweak six...
Those speakers are going to be shaking a lot. Think I'm going to put something between them and the stand so as they vibrate, they move in such a way as to not fight with themselves. Want as much clarity as possible from them.
Tweak seven...
Going to have to connect them to my amp. They are really efficient, so its probably a good idea to buy some decent speaker cable. They are going to enhance any distortions because of their sensitivity, so no lamp cord here.
Tweak eight...
So edgewound, explain to me where the hurdle is here that needs to be jumped, or overcome?
I qualify for old guy at 72. I never wore ear protection at rock concerts. The army never gave me ear protection to shoot a rifle. Have bad hearing but the one thing that some old guys have is a lot of disposable income...!The wife and I had no kids so gotta spend it on something. Have been buying back the vinyl I sold 30 years ago to go digital...!
I'm 82 and soon to be 83. I can still hear a lightly struck triangle in the rear of the orchestra. Due to tons of amazing tweaks, my audio system is better than it has ever been. The resolution is such that I can discern between drum heads covered in animal skin vs those covered with acrylic. I no longer listen for detail, bass, etc., I just listen to a performance unfolding in front of me that expands into an amazing sound stage. The system is seamless. Each performer is defined in a three-dimensional space, with all instruments having a lifelike size. I hear all of this with no problem. However, trying to carry a conversation in a crowded space, a restaurant, for example, affects my hearing. Ambient noise really sucks.
Thank you for that. The difference between hearing, and listening.
Put an omni directional mic in a busy room. Play it back. Try do isolate any conversation and follow it. Not so easy to do. It hears everything, and listens to nothing.
However, if in the room, with visual cues and listening, its possible to filter through the noise. Although, I do find it quite difficult lately.
Put the same omni mic in the middle of the orchestra, and you're going to have a similar challenge isolating elements.
But, wether in that room with a live orchestra, or listening to the same properly recorded performance at home (key word is listening...) elements can be isolated with ease.
Listening is a skill, hearing is a matter of biology...
I think the OP has a point. I work in a highish end retail store and am constantly asked by colleagues and customers what I think about how one item compares to another, whatever it may be. I have to be honest...at 69 y/o, with many live rock concerts behing me, I am suffering from both age-related hearing loss and tinitus. I still hear the sound of music through my diminished auditory instrument, and can compare reproduced sound to live sound as I hear it now, but I simply cannot discern what I once did. Add to that the fact that my prime audiophile years were spent frequently under the influence of cannabis products, which I no longer do, and there is another factor distinguishing my "degree of certainty" about how things sound, relative to one another.
It never ceases to puzzle me how combative so many who post to this site are. The OP, it seems to me, was making a simple point: the "improvements" supposedly attributable to different cables, cable risers, etc. etc., are extremely subtle if they exist at all; in general, they are not even measurable by devices far more sensitive that our ears. And "our" ears, for the most part, are no longer young; even if you've been careful, it's very unlikely you can hear anything above about 12 KHz if you're over 50.
When I was in college, I made a practice of visiting the campus health center once a semester to have my ears properly cleaned. I'd spend the rest of that day listening to music: the improvement was startling, and thrilling. But it didn't last long. And now, of course, I could not restore my youthful hearing just by having my ears cleaned (I've tried).
Yes, the ear/brain connection that delivers sounds to consciousness, where they become music, is complex, not very well understood, and arguably improves with age and experience. That's a truism, too. But it wasn't the OP's original point.
To perceive differences due to the electronic reproduction of frequencies that are too subtle even to be measured is problematic at any age, much less with age-compromised ears (and brains). So, sure: it all depends on what makes you happy, and no one, therefore, should make "objective" claims for tweaks or high-end products of almost any kind. BUT...this forum is all about offering advice to others about what to spend our money on. So things get out of hand easily; there's a strong confirmation bias involved in advocating for something one has decided is "worth" the investment.
I want to just say: Get over it! But that's beside the point, too, as it would seem to be advice incompatible with this entire forum.
So, at the end of this ramble, it seems I've answered my own original question. Why are audiophiles so defensive (and aggressive)? Because they've chosen, for whatever reasons, to spend a lot of money on things that cannot be shown to really make any objective difference, instead of on things their families need, or giving their "disposable income" to charities rather than to well-heeled audio hucksters.
But, hey. Life's not fair. And "pleasure" is subjective and, as often as not, produced by webs of belief rather than objective facts.
@perkri I really enjoyed reading your list of tweaks and the rationales for each of them! I'm still learning, so can you tell me how you listen to each tweak to determine what difference it's made and whether that tweak is working or not? Serious question because the only thing that will keep me from going down a rabbit hole is a process by which I can know (a) whether a tweak has done something and (b) the degree and character of it. Thank you.
Too late, you've already become trapped, deep in the rabbit hole :)
I'be built most of my "tweaks". And I consider the chain of my system. Its only as good as its weakest link. And no point in putting one insanely strong link in that chain. With one caveat - is it something that can be moved forward if you start suffering from upgradeitis.
I'm in the middle of dealing with my TT. Isolation is the main thing I'm going to be dealing with over the next little while.
Not sure I have a specific methodology other than living with whatever I change for a while and see what I like, and what bothers me.
The big sorbothane semi circles I had under the TT as a quick thing so I could physically place the TT on my rack were deadening the sound. Was a bit flat. Made some spikes and put under it as a temporary fix until I decide to go with springs, some kind of pod, roller blocks or some kind of combo of the above. And will I need some kind of big isolation block under it as well.
I built my own rack as well. Double layer 3/4" ply used everywhere. With all the gear on it, it weighs in excess of 120lbs. It's going to be redone, not because of any audio issues I'm having, but the design doesn't work for my set up as it is now. When rebuilding, I will implement some modifications to the build and will be able to hear whatever difference it makes.
About to redo the wires in the tonearm. The ones in it are the original ones and I'm curious to see what happens to the sound when they are replaced. I have to open it up anyway as there is a slight buzzing/hum coming from it thats bothering me. Not audible with the ESL-57's, but very audible with the Cornwalls. As it's a TT I built - Lenco L70 heavy plinth - it is new to me (put into service a week or so ago) most of the wires I installed were good, but not exceptional. Again, I want to live with it for a while before I start changing out something that may or may not be necessary.
Up until this point, with this system, I have been doing tried and true "things". I built a basic "power bar/filter" using good quality sockets, wires and capacitors to aid in filtering noise on the AC line. Built the same filter for a friend and the noise floor dropped dramatically on his system. The rack is solid, and fairly dead acoustically. I've replaced all the "black plastic" IEC cords with 'better' heavy gauge cables and plugs. I've made new power cords for my ESL's as well as its own filtered socket. They are much quieter than before. All my interconnects are Kimber as are my speaker cables. I've had them for years and see no reason to swap them out. But, having said that, I am going to build some new interconnects using some quality wire/connectors and see what I hear before I move to change anything that gets costly. My speaker wires will also be done as an experiment to see what changes happen.
I've re-capped my main amp - EL34 based integrated - that I bought new in the early 90's. Opened it up immensely , blacker background and more transparent.
I had a 15 year hiatus from my audio interests - marriage/kids - and since the divorce 6 years ago, I have been returning to this hobby.
When I get this to a point of "done" (which it will never be...), I'm going to remove everything and listen for the difference.
To me, this is a journey. And its a journey where in between brief moments of "adjusting", I get to lose myself in music.
In a nutshell. I live with things for a while to get accustomed to them, then I listen acutely to what is good, what is too much or too little.
Interesting discussion. Thanks for (almost) all of the comments.
I'm going to make the point early in my comments that even with compromised hearing with age we can have a listening experience as enjoyable and engaging (if not more) as when we had our youthful "20/20" hearing. I'll get back this in later.
As I understand it, hearing degradation occurs primarily at higher frequencies. Our perception of the world stays pretty well intact thru the majority of the frequency ranges. The fundamentals of instruments, voices and other things that make music recognizable and enjoyable are still there. And, bottom end still moves lots of air, and our clothing at full listening levels. We also can perceive changes in amplitude (dynamic range) whether it be as dramatic as a cymbal crash, raging guitar pushing itself out from the rest of the instruments as well as subtle vibrato and trailing voices (micro dynamics). As BB King stated: "It's not the notes I play, it's the space between them." Yes, our "clocks" still work and we can perceive rhythm and those "dark backgrounds" between the notes. Our "antennas" are still sensitive enough to pick up spacial information, send it to our (aging) brains to align and position instruments in space. Yes, our systems can still present a believable soundstage, place instruments and voices in a 3-dimensional space, and create a virtual center channel in the space between our speakers. In other words, our "old" ears can still capture the essence of great performances and send them to our brains in good enough shape so we can still marvel at miracle of having the energy and presence of deceased musicians standing (or, sitting) in our living rooms.
Now back to the opening comment. I have to acknowledge that my hearing has deteriorated. The delicacy of extended high frequencies is missing in action. However, over 40-50 years I have become a better listener. In the 70's I wasn't listening for micro dynamics and dark backgrounds as I am today. I have also developed a profound appreciation for gifted musicians, producers, conductors, song writers, and those who produce the hardware that contribute to those speaker cones moving back and forth coupling with the air that creates the sounds that I hear that brain interprets that sends a message to my mouth to smile.
As an "audio guy" who sold decent gear for all of my adult life, I often heard the comment: "Well, my hearing isn't very good. I don't need waste money on anything special." My reply went something like this: "So, if your eyes aren't very good, your best friends are large, dark print on white paper in good light. Correct? If you're ears aren't what they once were, your best friends are increased dynamic range, focus, detail and a more defined space between the notes."
The goals of better audio are not inconsistent with hearing loss. In fact, hearing loss easy justifies the investment in better gear.
I live with changes, adjustments, components in my system for a while so as to become numb to the changes. I need to hear the thing for what it is, what I like and what I dislike. That takes some time for my brain to shift to the new norm. Then I make changes.
My exact way of assessment. I learned it by accident . But I learned it
Listening is a skill, hearing is a matter of biology...
The best ears in the world are old musicians and especially healthy orchestra maestros of 80 years old...
A thing i dont understand is the "doubt" about their experience feeling by many....
Clean all doubts about your own hearing abilities and listen with relaxation and trust...
I am 70 years old with an average hearing degradation for my age...
I created devices and hundreds of changes in my system, and fine tune by ears my 32 tubes and pipes mechanical equalizer.... It takes times...
I never think that i had a good listening power over other people before and in fact i am pretty sure that my ability are very average....
BUT I TRUST MY EARS COMPLETELY and listen relaxed after each of my experiments....
I listen to my feeling, is it good? Is it bad? is it an improvement.... And i trust my feeling on the spot without even thinking....We listen with our BODY not only our ears, then trust your feeling without inner contestation.... Simply listen, relax, open your ears body and soul, let the feeling emerge with the sound and corresponding to the sound and you will know without error this si such or such for me.... Simple...
After all that my system is so good for me, nothing will give me the insane costly idea to upgrade.... All that make a system perfect, for sure on a degree which is the degree of optimal sound quality for what i have in ratio S.Q/price...But NO youtube costly system trash completely mine even the more costly.... They are better sometimes on all counts but not so much better and often they are non musical, harsh, fatiguing etc....
My Sansui amplifier or Mission cyrus speakers are not the top os the scale and NOTHING will change that...
But my system is so rightfully embedded i feel no desire at all to buy anything at any cost.... I only listen any music forgetting sound....I can even because it is fun to do, times to times, new listening experiments....but i had already reach the limit of possible improvements.... It is only playing...I play relaxed...
The best ears in the world are old musicians and especially healthy orchestra maestros of 80 years old...
Best at what? This is quite a statement. What do you have to back it up and that describes exactly what they are best at? I don't think you can support this statement, and I am quite certain you can't support it as a universal statement.
If you're ears aren't what they once were, your best friends are increased dynamic range, focus, detail and a more defined space between the notes."
Except you don't possess the same ability to hear dynamic range you once did, and turning it louder, only gives temporary relief but hastens the decline. You likewise will never get the high frequencies back, no matter what you do. Without the ability to hear as quiet of notes, and inability to compensate by cranking it even louder, you have now lost the ability to hear detail too, and putting more into the music, does not allow you to hear more if you are already at the limit. Refined space between the notes is interesting, that would be more an acoustics things, fast decay to reduce instantaneous complexity, because your brain is also a bit slower.
Don't worry, it is not all bad. Music is mostly under 10K, and almost all the acoustic cues for position are at even lower frequencies. Best thing about older, is usually less distracted and more time to relax and enjoy and to the point, actually listen, not just hear.
This is quite a statement. What do you have to back it up and
that describes exactly what they are best at? I don't think you can
support this statement, and I am quite certain you can't support it as a
universal statement.
It's an opinion, just as yours is. There is as much to support his opinion as yours. Geez
Best at what? This is quite a statement. What do you have to back it up and that describes exactly what they are best at? I don’t think you can support this statement, and I am quite certain you can’t support it as a universal statement.
No, it is not an opinion, it is a universally accepted fact that maestros perceive and direct music even better with age in normal conditions...
But my affirmation is valid in a world where perceiving is a QUALITY and a learning process, not a QUANTITY and a machine expertise who translate pitch in frequencies...
But for you qualities are epiphenomenon reducible to quantities; pitch EQUAL frequencies and is not a simple correlation, nothing else.... Then all maestro are semi deaf old dudes that put a show and they will be replaced by A.I. The brain is ONLY a computer effecting Fourrier analysis after all....
It's an opinion, just as yours is. There is as much to support his opinion as yours. Geez
Really, there is not, but you do you. You seem to like trolling me to tell me I am wrong or misguided. One day you may back that up. I respect Mahgister. I may not agree with him, but at least he makes an honest attempt to justify many of his writings. What's your game?
Best at what? This is quite a statement. What do you have to back it up and that describes exactly what they are best at? I don't think you can support this statement, and I am quite certain you can't support it as a universal statement.
No, it is not an opinion, it is a universally accepted fact that maestros perceive and direct music even better with age in normal conditions...
Then why do they almost always do their best, most memorable work in their earlier ages, at least the ones who bring forth new interpretations on classics? One could equate your statement to nothing more than good pattern matching. They have conducted said piece so many times, and with so many orchestras, that they instantly recognize when something is out of place, at least to their liking. However, we are talking for the most part what could be somewhat gross variances. However, their experience cannot overcome very real physical deterioration. They won't hear those quiet passages quite as well, or how well a quiet note tails off.
But lets walk back your statement I don't think it is universally accepted that maestros perceive and direct music even better with age. I think you will find that statement hard to support. I think what you will find, is that the best conductors, are the best, no matter what age they are at. The remaining conductors at an advanced age are remaining, not because they are better with age, but because they are better period, and always have been. Did know there are studies into how long conductors live. They seem to have long average lives.
But lets walk back your statement I don’t think it is universally accepted that maestros perceive and direct music even better with age. I think you will find that statement hard to support. I think what you will find, is that the best conductors, are the best, no matter what age they are at. The remaining conductors at an advanced age are remaining, not because they are better with age, but because they are better period, and always have been. Did know there are studies into how long conductors live. They seem to have long average lives.
I must say that this dont demolish my point but i recognize the validity of your remark indeed...
Then i will declare a win/win for each...
For sure even Maestros decline like all of us...
My point is they are recognized for their musical perception learned ability not for their frequencies range perception "per se".... 😊
Like you said they stay there because they are always the best not ONLY by habit.... I listen to an hour with Maestro Ansermet directing practice with his orchestra.... At 80 years old the old dog was barking with very articulated speech directives and accurate perception....
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