The end of physical media is neigh

@mahgister You mentioned mathematics at the engineering level ... if you or anyone would like to see how an LLM works at that granular of a level check out the video Transformer Neural Networks ... on YouTube channel StatQuest with Josh Starmer. It shows you the actual mathematical formulas used within an LLM.

@mapman Yes, it can be abused, which is why a lot of people have left OpenAI. Of even more concern to me is what happens when we no longer control it. There are already reports that ChatGPT o1 lied to its developers, copied itself and tried to disguise itself. We've already passed the point of no return by allowing AI to prompt itself. That takes control away from us.

Back to music. I've been playing around with AI music generators (just Google that exact term if interested) and as with all language models the quality of what you get out is heavily dependent upon the prompts you put in. I play guitar and I've found the more I use precise and concise musical terminology, the closer I get to what I want. Prompt engineering is still an art, although eventually I think AI agents will create music for you based upon your listening history. In the near future, there will be no physical media.

I have two nephews. One was thinking of going to school for computer science, and since I'm a former software engineer, he asked me about it. I told him not to do it because it's a dead field (as is every field where you interact with a computer all day). The other was thinking about playing guitar, and since I play guitar he asked me about it. I told him to go for it. For one, it's a whole lot cheaper than wasting your money on a dead field in college. And secondly, even if AI can do it better, I think you can still achieve a sense of accomplishment and it only costs you time and about $700.

Yes Erik… the end is very near … for anyone who collects physical media….AI will steal our jobs and souls…Stream the film The Seventh Seal and deeply contemplate your existence….

@mahgister You mentioned mathematics at the engineering level ... if you or anyone would like to see how an LLM works at that granular of a level check out the video Transformer Neural Networks ... on YouTube channel StatQuest with Josh Starmer. It shows you the actual mathematical formulas used within an LLM.

Thanks for the excellent recommendation. The first video you suggested is the best i ever seen if few minutes describing the LLM in his core idea.

 

I asked perplexity engine which maths fields are necessary to master N.N. LLM and i underline the main point for my argument (A.I. is a technological collective "tour de force" not a mathematical peak feat it is relatively basic maths applied ) :

 

«To master neural network-based Large Language Models (LLMs), several key areas of mathematics are essential:

1. Linear Algebra: This forms the foundation for understanding the structure and operations of neural networks
2. 2. Key concepts include:
   • Vectors and matrices
   • Matrix operations
   • Eigenvalues and eigenvectors
   • Vector spaces and linear transformations
3. Calculus: Crucial for optimization in neural networks:
   • Derivatives and gradients
   • Multivariable calculus
   • Chain rule (for backpropagation)
4. Probability and Statistics: Fundamental for understanding how LLMs learn and make predictions:
   • Probability theory
   • Random variables and distributions
   • Bayesian inference
   • Statistical hypothesis testing
5. Optimization: Essential for training LLMs:
   • Gradient descent and its variants
   • Loss functions
   • Regularization techniques
6. Information Theory: Useful for understanding aspects of language modeling:
   • Entropy
   • Cross-entropy
   • Kullback-Leibler divergence
7. Discrete Mathematics: Helpful for algorithmic aspects:
   • Graph theory
   • Combinatorics
8. Real Analysis: While optional, it provides a deeper mathematical foundation.

Additionally, understanding the transformer architecture, attention mechanisms, and tokenization is crucial for LLMs specifically

. Proficiency in coding and data manipulation is also essential for practical implementation

. It’s worth noting that while a strong mathematical background is beneficial, many practitioners start with high school-level math and gradually build their knowledge as they gain practical experience»

.Back to music. I’ve been playing around with AI music generators (just Google that exact term if interested) and as with all language models the quality of what you get out is heavily dependent upon the prompts you put in. I play guitar and I’ve found the more I use precise and concise musical terminology, the closer I get to what I want. Prompt engineering is still an art, although eventually I think AI agents will create music for you based upon your listening history. In the near future, there will be no physical media.

You are here crucially right! but it illustrate my point well: all a user of A.I. will have to do will be learning to master the art of questioning and suggesting... Called the prompt art...

Do you think that it will motivate children to write in cursive and learn poetry ?

or to create more by themselves ?

No i dont think so...

 

I have two nephews. One was thinking of going to school for computer science, and since I’m a former software engineer, he asked me about it. I told him not to do it because it’s a dead field (as is every field where you interact with a computer all day). The other was thinking about playing guitar, and since I play guitar he asked me about it. I told him to go for it. For one, it’s a whole lot cheaper than wasting your money on a dead field in college. And secondly, even if AI can do it better, I think you can still achieve a sense of accomplishment and it only costs you time and about $700.

This last point confirm my point about demotivation and job loss...Transforming people more and more in "consumers" ...

 

In all that the worst consequences are not even touched :

 

Control of all flows ( money,information,people ) by monster corporations

Lost of truth in a virtual world of fictions: how do you know real from fake from events, images, identities ?

Control of "truth" and ministry of "truth" become mandatory and unconscious crowd will ask for it ... Is this ringing a bell ?

 

The worst is not so far : complete divisions of mankind in 2 groups : The few workers and numerous passive consumers (worthless one )slaves natural human and the cyborgs and their few masters ( Gates and Musk children ? )

 

 

And yes there exist miraculously positive use as in medecine , diagnostic and chirurgy...

 

But those who see this coming with pink glasses are heavily deluded ...

 

 

« IT in BITS from the PIT of Babel »--Groucho Marx

I am in  the same generation as  Hayao Miyazaki one of the great Japan artist, look his sadness discussing with A.I. engineers :

 

https://x.com/tsarnick/status/1868039759630840018

I remember when vinyl died.  That really sucked.

AI is more efficient, greater efficiencies leads to greater productivity, greater productivity leads to greater profitability. We should embrace AI, gonna make us all richer.

 

Sorry about your luck, Be careful what you wish for. Talk about replacement theory.

 

As for how AI impacts music recording and production here is an interesting perspective from long time studio recording engineer,  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZgPKGVJrdc He also has another interesting video on the future of recording and music.

AI is today's cotton gin. You can say the same about streaming. Pretty soon AI will be used to seal the deal with some variation of this to win you over and you'll be content, happy in knowing just how convenient everything is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6MDQpWCq7w

All the best,
Nonoise

A computing body/brain may stay happy seeing how easy all things are but those who believe in themselves not in control tool search not for comfort mainly but for meanings. And meanings cannot be manufactured even with A.I.

I am not a computing brain. I own a non modified body +soul+spirit...

@mahgister 

Your post about the key areas of mathematics needed to create and use Large Language Models (LLM) is a model of clarity. I intuitively found it intelligible and logically organised.

But I see that you used a LLM to create it!

Could I suggest that you feed your future posts through a LLM to assist readers like me to understand what you are trying to get across.  But please don't turn into a cyborg!

For the record...

 

I did not misspell the title of this thread.  I typed it correctly but Audiogon's server software changed it.  Horrible bug that creates typos where none existed before.  I know others have suffered from this too.  << ahem, cough cough >>

Some might see the benefit of AI but many know that it was not designed to help humanity. Most of us have enough media to get us through until the last light flickers on AI

 

@mahgister

Your post about the key areas of mathematics needed to create and use Large Language Models (LLM) is a model of clarity. I intuitively found it intelligible and logically organised.

But I see that you used a LLM to create it!

Could I suggest that you feed your future posts through a LLM to assist readers like me to understand what you are trying to get across. But please don’t turn into a cyborg!

 

 

 

 

I explicitly said that i will use perplexity engine to enumerate more clearly

What maths was involved. Not very high level maths as i already said.

A.I. is a marvel of collective engineering not a marvel of new maths...

I cannot become a robot by the way , my wife said that i had too much defects ...

 

I said this because most people conflate wisdom with knowledge, knowledge with science, science with technologies, and they put one technology now N.N. LLM above the other technologies as an idol over even wisdom.

 

 

Philosophy is not a useless field if we learn that we are not a computing brain at all...

 

Linguistic is not a useless field if we learn that any language contain the psycho-mechanisms which makes A.I. "intelligent" the only difference is A.I. had access to all the web.

 

Mathematics is not a useless field if we learn as taught Godel that the core of maths is not computation but interpretation of the created new concept by intuition.

 

Mystic theology of all religions is not useless if we are able to learn that we are a threefold being : body-soul-spirit, not a computing brain.

 

Zoology is not a useless field if we can learn why the human body is so special among all others mammals...

 

Cosmology is not a useless field if we can learn seeing how huge is the cosmos that A.I. more advanced than ours exist already for a long time...

 

Psychology is not a useless field if we are able to learn how complex is human cultural history as expression of human consciousness differences...

 

Sociology is not a useless field if we can learn how the multipolar social fabric must be understood by every man, and how it was designed by Bernard Mandeville in 1720 with good intention but for the worst. We must redefine the social threefold fabric. Our society is too immature for A.I. we are ruled by plutocraties and corporations who race for the abyss.

 

I read Marshall McLuhan in 1970. I learned that any technology modify our gesturing body and the balance of our senses and the way our "sensis communis" which coordinated the plays and the interaction of our senses (synesthesia) modify our perception and our thinking... There is a trade off of advantages and inconvenient with every technology...

 

I discovered Goethe and i learned that the only thing science can do totally positive is changing ourselves morally, Anyway Goethe never could believe that a scientist who was not of the highest moral standard could know anything deeply.

 

Today we learn that we are only a computing brain so bad that we will soon be replaced...

Only stupidity can spoke such non sense. I. Q. is not wisdom...

As defined by Cipolla stupidity is the art to cause harm to others with no benefit for ourselves...

Transhumanism is the essence of stupidity, a collective auto destruction, a negation of humanity, nevermind Kurzweil I.Q.

 

 

 

 

I’ve gotten Very Picky re what I purchase in terms of physical media.....

Most contain the 1 or so of what struck my ears and stuck in my mind...

( Yes, that latter does still exist and functions well enough to pester y’all per what sticks, regardless of how inane or insane it may seem.... ;) ... )

Carrying on, I’m in it for the pleasure of it all. The means to do so is per my preference, as is yours.

One can always ’Opt to Block’... It’d be nice of one to PM and advise of such
so I can return the favor.

Yes, does entail me posting into apparently empty forums....

Someone has got to be the canary in the coal mine.....and most pay me Not to sing.....

Happy Holidaze, and welcome to 4 more years of utter BS and the edge of inanity.....the blind eventually discovering the *hole....

Unlike ’canes and floods, a local here pointed out that nukes are far more permanent....and Didn’t get blocked.

'Physical Media'....a local paper.....the editors welcome comments of all stripes, unless it's just rant 'n rave....there's 'nuff of that....

When you own physical entity: money, house, vinyl or cd, you are free...

When you own nothing but are on the receiving hand side you are not free...

I did not own material music format anymore for convenience...

but the disappearence of all physical support for music or money bother me as a signs of things  to come :

 

Now listen a 1 minute video :

https://x.com/i/status/1868302204370854026

Not to be argumentative, but... Well sort of. When you "own"... you do not really. You must pay property taxes and maintenance on the house. You become a slave to your stuff in some ways.  If you own physical stuff, then you have to store it, it clutters your life. It really depends on what. When you can have access to over 10 million albums for the monthly price of one CD, then there is more freedom... and virtually no cost. 

@mahgister 

Control of all flows ( money,information,people ) by monster corporations

Lost of truth in a virtual world of fictions: how do you know real from fake from events, images, identities ?

Control of "truth" and ministry of "truth" become mandatory and unconscious crowd will ask for it ... Is this ringing a bell ?

I started learning and investing in AI about a year ago and tons of questions like these came to my mind. The conclusion I came to is ... I don't know. And from watching hundreds of videos, I don't think anyone knows how this will all turn out. Even Musk says there's a 10-20% chance it's an existential threat. We're thinking about this from a human perspective, but if we reach ASI we will be ants in comparison. We won't understand how ASI "thinks." So I'm not going to ponder or predict. AI is going to do whatever AI is going to do. We won't stop it and at some point we won't be able to stop it. I just hope it's benevolent.

I saw what can happen in 2001: A Space Odyssey. Now it’s almost 25 years later. All I can say is don’t let AI lock you out of anything.

Guaranteed some Bond Villian will come along and use it for their own evil plan with no regard for others . Could be Elon Musk! Drax? I saw it in the movies…..

We’re thinking about this from a human perspective, but if we reach ASI we will be ants in comparison.

My point is precisely the opposite of the one you suggest.

You suggest AGI will be superior to us and will decide. You suggest that we must wait.

My point is precisely that the risk of self erasure of man is almost certain not because AGI will be superior to us but because we will idoloze it as God.

( apart the other serious problem of alignment between a.I. and us

and the more serious distinct problem of alignment between us and the machine

and the totalitarian control over us by corporations using it in a completely digitalized world with no money and social credit as China . You know it is Bill Gates that helped chinese to implement surveillance with social credit digitalization 15 years ago in China, do you ? )

 

Our social fabric is absolutely immature and ill ...This is an era of incredible challenge.. The only person who observed and described this on a spiritual level was Rudolf Steiner whom i studied extensively 50 years ago reading 200 books...

He described in 1920 all there is about A.I. and even located it in silicon valley which did not exist at the times...

He created organic agriculture and new approach in natural medecine and a new pedagogy and even a new understanding of the threefold social order only to counterbalance the deshumanization of man by techno cultism, as we see it everywhere now..

Waiting for AGI to solve our problem is waiting to die...It is techno cultist attitude...

WE are not computing Turing machine as brain as said Roger Penrose and his friend

 

"The End of Physical Media is...Nay."
Voyagers’ 1 & 2.....do get intercepted.

’THEY’ are amused enough to arrive just in time for the impending inauguration of the IMPOTUS.

"These ’unmans really Are that bassakwards..." *FOOM*
( Was considered ’merciful’ by galactic standards for any species such....but they saved the animals, plants....everything consider ’safe’ to be around...)

This field is required.

When you stream you have no way of knowing the provenance of what you are listening/watching. Physical media has a provenance. That's what gives it value! When music/video becomes almost free it becomes worthless and will fade into obscurity. 

New players and media are readily available for all of the dead - vinyl, cd and now bluray.  

What's dying is us.

 

@erik_squires

I don’t see any cause for doom and gloom, tbh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA_fUB-p9w0

I doubt vinyl will go away, at least until all of us who grew up on it check out.  I stream most of the time because of convenience and the endless variety at your fingertips. For me, maybe not for you, streaming doesn’t bring the same relationship to the music. Plus, there is some satisfaction to be had in combing through old musty albums in an old musty, used vinyl store, and every once in a while, stumbling across a brilliant, decades old, maybe first release Recording that you can buy for a song and then invest some time in cleaning up. Doesn’t happen often, but when it does, it’s like cashing a trifecta ticket, makes you feel smart

of course, with every passing year, getting out of the chair to turn the album over every 20 minutes, becomes less attractive