"Psychotherapists." Freudian slip. Almost too perfect for words.
What Audio Religion have you converted others to successfully?
We all have certain audio proclivities, some we expose to the world, some we hide even from our priests and psychotherapists. We believe, strongly, there's a certain way to achieve magic. A state of enlightenment which raises our awareness almost instantly to resonate with the sacred muses, and may actually transcend music and audio to reach the divine (as opposed to Divine).
In most cases, we share something with a loved one and they're like "um, ok, are still on for fishing this weekend?" but rarely, ever so rarely, the go home, they don't talk to their spouses, their children think there is something wrong, and they call you late at night. "You know that thing you did, with the cables and the vinyl and stuff? How can I do that too? Does my spouse need to know? Can I keep things at your place?"
So, my fellow audiophiles, what proclivities do you find yourself championing, and what do you think is an easy vs. a hard sell? Vinyl? Room acoustics? Rubbing Portuguese safflower oil on your cables before listening?
In most cases, we share something with a loved one and they're like "um, ok, are still on for fishing this weekend?" but rarely, ever so rarely, the go home, they don't talk to their spouses, their children think there is something wrong, and they call you late at night. "You know that thing you did, with the cables and the vinyl and stuff? How can I do that too? Does my spouse need to know? Can I keep things at your place?"
So, my fellow audiophiles, what proclivities do you find yourself championing, and what do you think is an easy vs. a hard sell? Vinyl? Room acoustics? Rubbing Portuguese safflower oil on your cables before listening?
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Hi @millercarbon It hurts my soul to know you run around using words you don’t understand in an era when Wikipedia and Merriam Webster are online and free. Please have an essay by Monday explaining what the two criteria are for a "Freudian slip" and why at least one of them is missing. 500 words. Have another 500 words for the term "projection" and how it applies to your reply. Another 500 words on the phrase "obsession" and, for bonus points only, why "transference" is also a bad description of anything which is going on, focusing on how it differs from "projection." Best, E |
We warned Sigmund about the black ice on the driveway. Sigmund was the type of guy that would never listen to others and he took a bad fall. Sig was never the same guy after that slip!! https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/freudian-slip.jpg |
@erik_squires , You won’t get far in any attempt to understand the nature of audiophilia by asking the patient. The 2 most well known journals of the classification of illnesses the ICD 10 and DSM IV are already threatening to engulf the entire human race. Of course whether you regard your passion for audio as an illness is going to vary from individual to individual. We audiophiles are rarely a danger to others, only ourselves. Whether we are aware of the dangers of being sucked into one particular audio cult or another there’s little doubt that many of us have been at various times or others. You only have to look at some of the over enthusiastic product recommendations from some of the presumably non financially invested members here. For my part I have been a fervent advocate of analogue over digital (vinyl over CD) for well over a decade. Nowadays I tend to not get so partisan. There is good vinyl, bad vinyl, good digital and bad digital depending upon the recording etc. The ’threat’ of digital (remember how its arrival was denigrated and ridiculed by Linn, Naim and Rega?). After being an ardent magazine bound subjectivist (if it ain’t got that zing it don’t mean a thing) I stumbled first upon the wonderfully clear headed and resourceful Harbeth user forum and then upon Peter Aczel’s no holds barred The Audio Critic site. Initial outrage and an immature smugness of knowing better both prevented me from revising my previously held opinions. Yet there was much of interest here, even if some of it seemed highly heretical, if not downright blasphemic. You know, all well designed CD players sound the same, so do cables, so do DAC’s. The most heinous claim and the most worthy of excommunication, if not ruinous apostasy, was the notion that all well designed amplifiers are also sonically indistinguishable!! Needless to say, there has been a good deal of swallowing of humble pie these past few years. Apologies to any I may have mislead previously. Thankfully me and friends never too crazy with expensive cables. We all took a hit, but we can live with it. A similar process often happens with political affiliations but usually more gradually. Many young people start off with left wing views (Marx and his Communist Manifesto make so much sense, why can’t everyone see it?) but gradually they get to see that there are just as many selfish, deluded, unpleasant psychopathic individuals on the left as there are in the right. Even worse, once you start working and settle down to family life you may suddenly find yourself in sympathy with figures who were always portrayed as unforgivably right wing. I always used to enjoy watching the Australian journalist Clive James on TV but regarded him as a somewhat hopeless cynic back then, but lo and behold, today his words seem to make great sense. Sorry Clive. I got there in the end. That’s more or less where I stand today, and here I shall remain until I am able to recognise some evidence to the contrary. What else is good mental health/ sanity, but a beneficial adjustment to one’s environment? |
Sometimes the sparring and jesting is hilarious, sometimes thought provoking but sometimes just plain redundant and boring. You be the judge. Back to the original topic. I'll leave vinyl and oils out of it. My desire to get better gear as others here have said is to be able to hear things in a passage of music that we've never heard before no matter how familiar we are with it. I want to share that with others. If I do have someone over which is rare and they have the time I don't really talk about the system, I play music. I let them decide what they want to hear because it will be familiar for them and they'll be able to hear things they've never heard before. One time I had to do a hard pass on Quiet Riot. Nothing against them but not exactly dynamic. Then if they are able to listen for longer than a perfunctory period I'll break out some other things they might not be familiar with. My favs for this are from Pink Floyd especially their early work. When I listen to Grandchester Meadow I see the reflection of the vocals in the water flowing by and I am lying on my back on grass with a blade in my mouth. It tells how a seemingly quiet place is fraught with danger while relaxing you at the same time. Strange. I put on Caress of Steel by Rush and from the Necromancer on I am taken on a journey. Geddy Lee's voice on this while raw is extremely expressive imparting on me every emotion he is dealing with in each phrasing of Neil Peart's lyrics. Doom, fear, jubilation, frustration, wonder, anger, angst, love and adventure are lain bare. I'll put on some Steely Dan to get in a groove and chuckle and wonder at their absurd lyrics while at the same time knowing no other words would be right. I'll try to introduce people to The Flaming Lips, a group that while I am not crazy about everything they do they are definitely different from anything and have some material that is sonically amazing. When I listen to music sometimes I feel as if I can sense electrons firing in certain regions of my brain, I can feel the skin tighten across my face in different areas during different passages and I can watch a movie behind my eyelids. That's the secret magic I want to share. |
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I have heard the best speakers on the planet that the finest speaker engineers can create. These werent good enough. Some were even horrible. The bottom line is that I am the greatest audiophile in the audiophile community. You will never find a more fussy audiophile than me. Just remember that Mr Erik Tufnel!! Now by Monday morning I expect an essay from you Squires. The essay will explain why the SNR1 are not the best in the world. What has gone wrong? Is it the wood? Is it the crossover? Is it a mystery? I order you to provide an explanation Nigel. |
I’ve seen some people actually preach that the best way to improve sound categorically is to sell your gear and always buy Tekton and Raven products while trying to build an entire cult behind it. It’s a religion vis a vis Jim Jones style sadly. I know it sounds like I’m making this up...but sadly it’s true. The words of these prophets are written on the subway...errr...Agon walls.. |
@erik_squires I believe he misspelled “funny” “You will never find a more funny audiophile than me” And I have converted some people. Most relevantly, a friend to the benefits of custom speakers. Specially backloaded double full range horns. Also the joy a low power SET can bring to those speakers. And I thought a Freudian Slip involved a banana... And the profit believes himself to have Einstein like intelligence, which sadly does not get applied to decor choices. |
I readily admit that my responses have bounced on and off sophomoric humor. However, lately some users seem to have had trouble discerning the reality of a privileged hobby from that of real life. Let's try not to offend anyone. Let's not get angry or defensive. I'm going to start it off with I was at a new record store in Asheville NC yesterday. it was awesome. Debby and I went for a get away. Great town with so much to do. Bought a bunch of records I have been looking for. King Crimson "Red". Fantastic. Gotta have it if into Progressive Rock.. |
I’m pretty much in the agnostic camp too. I used to want guests to hear the main system, but now, unless it’s a listening session that’s planned in advance with someone who has expressed an interest, I don’t bother. I used to let the music and system speak for itself. I’ve certainly had comments from visitors who are a little awestruck by the horns or the turntable, or the fact that there are vacuum tubes in all the gear plainly visible. I’m also hard pressed when someone asks for advice at this point, whether they are on a tight budget or have a lot of money to spend, I usually encourage them to get out there and listen to as many different systems as possible and keep their credit cards and checkbook at home. I stay in touch with friends I’ve made over the years- all of us have very different systems for the most part, and I enjoy talking to each of them for different kinds of insights. But, bringing them religion? Hardly. I’ve been steadfast in this hobby or whatever you want to call it for a long, long time and honestly, it’s not as easy as it once was. I still collect records and when I get a chance, I clean and listen to them. Maybe I’m going through one of those periods I have every so often when I don’t exactly lose interest, but just don’t have the time or energy to devote to listening. Which is quite sad, since I’m now retired, and should have more time than I do. I’ve been insanely busy this past Fall, even with all the Covid-related constraints. Used to be when I’d get in a mood, I’d take a sports car out, point it in some direction and go, sometimes for days or weeks. Moral to the story: abundance does not make the heart grow fonder. Enjoy what you have. |
In keeping with the tenor of this thread; "Atheists" build inferior systems. That's not a harsh judgment, it's simply a statement of the reality. Do I wish to spend a great deal of time here explaining that comment? No. I have endeavored to teach others the foibles of audiophilia, and superior methods to establish and improve systems. I believe there are a few who have benefitted. :) |
I think it is important to be satisfied with what you have and just enjoy listening to music. Otherwise you won't even enjoy listening to music. Doesn't hurt to drop by your local dealer to hear what is available to see if there is something you like better, but in the meantime fire up your system and enjoy what you have. Concentrate on exploring new music and expanding your horizons. Remember the reason why you got involved in this hobby is because of your love of music. I have to remind myself to do the same. I too need to force myself to listen to something new because I just might surprise myself and find something I like better to listen to. |
What could possibly be constructive about religion? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It’s very simple, slip me a 5.00 , you get a blessing. What do you think you get for 50.00? That’s right, nothing, but at least I’m honest. Now we get up into the 100.00 range... We’re talking CURSES, YUP. The dog gone VooDoo comes out... at about 250. 00 or so.. then to put it all away, a cool grand or TWO... Some of this stuff, I gotta do a costume and HAT change.. Need a top Hat and a Cigar... couple of puffer fish...:-) kenjit, behave this can go either way!! :-0 ho ho ho.... I think 1/64 Gypsy too.. Regards |
In the spirit of the original post, I have converted/enlightened some friends on the value of LP playback. Those that started this hobby with CDs or streaming as the norm were baffled that LPs could sound so pleasing. Notice I’m not saying “better”. There were others that had gotten away from listening to music except in their car. Those gents had put away or sold off their record collections and turntables. Being reintroduced to vinyl playback turned their interest in music back on. I don’t try to convert or enlighten people anymore after seeing some of the results. I have seen one of my converts who had maybe 100 LPs in his collection in storage, decided to break out his old TT again. I lent him some equipment as he had sold off his rig. We had great listening sessions at each other’s house. Then he began going to record stores and buying LPs with me on occasion. That’s all good right? Except now he goes LP shopping two or three times a week and buys online. In two years he has amassed over 900 LPs. He has bought a stereo system of his own, and is already looking to upgrade. He is not the only one that has really delved into this hobby after a few listening sessions at my house. I know they are adults but I do somehow feel responsible for creating an addiction, or something like it. I no longer try to spread this disease. |
One newer religion out of California has converted a pretty decent sized following. Called Shiites as I recall!! Fussy and fuzzy used to have different meaning. Has that changed? When a man is pulled out of the herd for an offense it is known as being "defrocked" unless he is quaffing a RC Cola. Women have yet to be allowed in this new religion except for use in the most rudimentary positions. Secret bank accounts funnel funds thru intermediaries. When asked "What’s different about the equipment" a nonchalant "Oh Nothing Dear" must be convincingly employed. "It was the perfect high end audio religious icon: Exotic, inefficient, expensive, unavailable, and toxic." NP/JK |
I have to say, that my intentions on this thread were, as usual, purely for fun, enlightenment and connecting with other audiophiles.That because you always put up Wally-world type threads, I’m sure you just like to see yourself post, or your thread starter count go up looking for the Guinness record🤦♂️ |
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....I’m offended by people being offended by whatever they feel they ought to be offended by for no discernable offense....*shrug*.... Comfortably Numb, thank you virtually...;) ’Audioconversion’ happens rarely, and only to those open to the experience....imho...and generally will ’take off’ potentially into a realm not forseen by the ’converting conductor’. One could relate the activity to electroshock therapy of a milder version....something that also tended to have ’variable results'.... "...Portuguese safflower oil on your cables...." Icky....collects dust bunnies... I’d rather spray LPs’ with silicone for that ’liquid sound’...(No, Not from the spray bomb....a perfume atomizer. One needs to show restraint Sometimes....) ...watching my speeling....just 'cuz..... |
After reading all of this feedback I've come to the following, scientifically sound and immutable results, and, by inference, a conclusion: Audiophilia conversion isn't real. You either have it or you don't. Therefore it is not environmental, therefore, it is genetic, and if you all don't want audiophiles to die out you need to make more babies. |
Erik, Making babies isn't going to help--at least, not if you mean the literal kind. How many of us have children who are also audiophiles? Still, I've found this a really interesting thread, despite some of the nay-sayers, so thanks. Perhaps it illustrates a potentially disconcerting thing: that we (we humans, not just we audiophiles) tend to enthuse about what reaches or touches us personally, not because it's "better," or even "valuable" in any objective sense, but just because we feel it. IMHO, this feature of human experience explains why dreams are so powerfully moving to the person who has them, and so boring to anyone who has to listen to an account of them. Dreams "mean" nothing at all, in the vast majority of cases. They seem important only because they're so vividly experienced by the mind of the dreamer. When you wake from a dream, the quickly fading memory is of an "experience" every bit as vivid as it would be had you really experienced the events you dreamed, and this seems slightly miraculous, in light of the fact, inescapable upon waking, that none of it actually happened. A fantasy is nothing like a dream, really, except in its unreality. If we could "day dream" with as much vividness as we sleep-dream, we'd never leave the house. Well, what each of us experiences with our own audio equipment, and our own favorite music, is finally personal, subjective--and thus, of absolute importance to us, but fundamentally incommunicable to anyone else. And yet, if we like people, we want to share the delight. It very rarely succeeds. |
Wasn't a conversion, but a reawakening. 20 or so years ago, I couldn't believe how good a $500 manual turntable improved the sound over a more expensive one I had that broke. Told my brother in law about it who still had his college system with bookshelf speakers and he bought the same one and couldn't believe it. Then it was amps replacing a receiver, then a 4 component CD system (since disconnected), then speakers. I think that is when he inherited a nice chunk of change and kept upgrading piece by piece many times over and down a rabbit hole and thinks he knows more than me because he spends WAY more. Wouldn't keep his records vertical until he built a custom record shelf built into the wall. Doesn't own a record brush and doesn't take the lint off when he plays them, but bought a top of the line record cleaning machine. Doesn't own a power conditioner, but paid to have an electrician put his system on its own separate power feed. Says he wants to keep things simple and then buys tubes because he hears they sound better but has issues with them and the heat they create because of the room ventilation (his office) so he had to put a fan in (also because he used to smoke cigars in there - my sister won that battle and I haven't smelled a cigar for a long time). Talk about ruining the sound.... Anyway, after this experience, I just try to tell people that vinyl sounds better, but you may be limited by selection so you should at least have it as an option, but people with no records are hard to convince, especially the youngsters who never knew life without an iPod. It is making a comeback because vinyl and record players are "in style" which I guess is good if creates some new audiophiles. I don't like it when people say they want "the best" because there is no best and there are always qualifiers. Sometimes people with a ton of cash forget that, and usually they don't really care enough about it to LISTEN and do some research before they buy. |
erik_squiresSince I have actually been a psychologist, let me help. Freudian slip: The doily that Victorian religious nut cases put on piano legs to keep men from being aroused by their erotic curvature. Projection: Claiming you hear some deficiency in someone else's system, when you really worry that the same flaw is in yours. Obsession: A perfume that stops up ones nose and ear canals, interfering with the sound. Transference: The big, heavy wire wrapped things in your amp that transfer electrons into you filter caps. This is not projection, which is a psychological issue, not electrical. |
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