Passive all the time. I've heard many transformer based conditioners and every time I've heard a reduction in dynamics. Others claim this isn't the case but listen for yourself.
WHICH POWER CONDITIONER IS BETTER PASSIVE OR ACTIVE WITH ISOLATION TRANSFORMERS
Looking to purchase a Power Conditioner to reduce the noise floor in my system as well as to protect my system from electric spikes. The two types of conditioners seem to be as follows:
- Passive conditioners such as an Audience AR-12 T4 which claims that passive conditioning with the use of chips is the way to go because their filtering is better accomplished without the use of isolation transformers. The proponents of passive seem to claim that the use of isolation transformers adds noise to the components in the chain.
- Active or non passive-An example would be the Niagra 3000, 5000 &7000 by Audioquest which all use Isolation transformers to accomplish the filtering. Most of the conditioners I see advertised seem to accomplish filtering with the use of isolation transformers.
- My question is what type is better and why? Any recommendations would be appreciated. My budget is $4000-$5000.00, would consider used, a/k/a pre-owned.
- Thank you for your input.
21 responses Add your response
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I'm glad this came up. I've always been in the camp that passive conditioning is the way to go, just filtering out the noise on the line. Every time I got new equipment, it always sounded better on my Niagara 1200 passive conditioner so when I got my Technics SU-G700M2 I used it that way for some years now, unit yesterday. It was just out of boredom from going through the last stages of weird cold (I'm on the 22nd day but feeling much better) that I decided to try out my integrated straight into the wall AC with everything else plugged into the Niagara. It was some kind of audio epiphany. More airy, clearer, tighter and defined with better frequency extension and increase in soundstage with absolutely no downsides. My Marantz Reference PM15S2 integrated was no slouch but still benefited from the Niagara. Whoever designed the power supply in the Technics should be given a raise. I can't believe the sound I'm getting from a $3,000 integrated. Suffice to say, it largely depends on the gear you're using as all power supplies are not made the same. I live in an old apartment with old wiring that had noise on the lines that went away when using the Marantz on the Niagara but hindered the performance of the Technics on the Niagara, so you'll need to see about getting a loaner and trying it out with the gear you have. Good luck. All the best,
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@nonoise This is not the first instance Ive heard of the Niagra limiting current to an amp. And I fully agree it depends on the gear. |
@carlsbad2 It's strange but I've read that and finally experienced it. Before the Marantz, I had a Kinki integrated that sounded the same no matter the configuration but the Marantz just couldn't cut it on it's own. All the best, |
I’m not really onboard with the definition. In all other situations I know of, active means powered. That power is being used in addition to the input and output. Isolation transformers by this definition are still passive. The PS Audio power regenerators are very much active. Furman with LiFT is active. Personally, I prefer voltage regulation over isolation. Day in, day out, winter and summer it keeps the voltage at my gear solid. Furman with AR (auto regulation) plus SMP for surge suppression is really hard to beat at a great price point. Of course, you can also get Furman with AR, SMP AND isolation... but that's above my budget. |
@nonoise I agree, it is hit and miss how each amp works with power supplies. And it can be the opposite of what you think. I have a 14 lb, 2 wpc tube amp that is very sensitive. Jerry |
All i know is i had more power spikes this wk and all the power filtering systems worked and saved my equipment including the monster 2000 +7000.the furman 20i is nice cuz it has big capicators to help the transients in the big monoblock amps. They could rob me of some clarity but it's like a timex that takes a licking and keeps on ticking.i don't have to pay 500$ shipping them off to get fixed.the niagra has the magic tube that I think is a capicitor for transients.watch the interview by upscale audio on upscale audio site. I'm sure my amps sound better plugged directly into the wall but I can't afford it.i do like the gadgets on the ps 20.it would be nice for you to go to a dealer and try stuff out crutchfield will let you do it.the bug spray dude fell over and lost controll of his spray nosel we heard the loud crash as his big 10 gallon can hid my grandkids toys.then 3 hours latter the ge surge protector was like the wizard of Oz and lit up.called the. The next day and the manager came and evaluated the situation.the next day got full page denial letter stating they are trained not to spray outlets. And the outlet would have char on it if thaT truly happened.they fun it by thier genius electrician. Moral of the strory.do it yourself.they must have not looked at the outlets cuz 3 had ionizationation from arc .it was soaking wet.off to the fire arsonist I go.good luck with your search and keep the pesticides sprayers away from your outletts. |
@kjl1065 +1 on the Regenerators. I have very noisy, high distortion incoming power with significant voltage swings. I bought a PS Audio PP12 and it made a world of difference, better than Furman I was trying out. Everything is plugged into it, Classe monoblocks as well, and not coming anywhere close to overloading it. Infact, it worked so well that I bought a used PP10 for the bedroom system and haven't looked back.
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I went down this same journey last December. I purchased a EMI noise meter to test my power and found that my electricity was actually really good. So, I decided to get something that was more of a surge protector and provided some additional outlets. My budget was $1500. I purchased an Audioquest Niagara 1200 power conditioner. After testing it I found that it actually added noise to my electricity. I returned it and bought a Furman Elite15 PFi. The amplifier outlets on the Furman brought the noise in the electricity to 0.0. The other outlets on the Furman added noise to my electricity. I use the amp outlet for my phono pre amp and power amp and use the other outlets on things where EMI noise doesn’t matter as much. |
That's interesting. So Furman uses LiFT, linear filtering, which is an active technology to clean up the noise. The problem with EMI gadgets is understanding what frequency they are working at. It's possible that LiFT is increasing noise well above audibility but decreasing it below 20 kHz. In any event, I think what you discovered is the filtering capabilities of the series mode protection (SMP) built into the Furman which works at about 3kHz and higher. Personally in bad, apartment complex like environments I could hear it when my Furman was not in the system. Everything sounded more hazy. |
Tried the PS Audio Regenerator, an Audioquest active Conditioner and a Shunyata Gemini 8 passive conditioner. They all reduce noise and offer a black background In my experience amplifiers always sounded more open and transparent plugged into the wall Again in my system the Regenerator and Active Conditioner moved everything forward highlighting the upper midrange and lower treble while the Shunyata calmed everything down and opened up the soundstage and added to the image depth I purchased the Shunyata with a Gamma power cord I believe I have decent power to start so no wild fluctuations but even so the Shunyata improved transparency, imaging and soundstage especially with my digital components. The amplifier however stays in the wall.
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While there are numerous theoretical pros and cons to the design consideration of either a passive or active power conditioner, the manufacturers you list (AQ and Audience) have designed their equipment to mitigate negative effects and improve SQ. Both use high quality parts with excellent mechanical design quality. That said, and as you state, theoretically active conditioning can reduce peak power delivery and introduce broad band noise. I would assume from the literature that is why Nagra has both active and passive circuits in their design. Passive filtration theoretically can introduce resistance that limits instantaneous currents demand that impacts dynamics. The best manufacturers have mitigated the risk. For example, the Shuntata Denali has both low current and high current outlets, where the former for maximum noise filtration and the latter for maximum, instantaneous current demand. On a side note, the Nagra has a “current reservoir” to provide for instantaneous current demand. I cannot comment except I have also heard some say the Nagra limits dynamics in their opinion. For those that recommend regeneration, theoretically it is the way to go if you are in an area with line voltage fluctuations, but if not, conditioning is the way to go IMHO. For example, at my vaca home in Vermont with large voltage fluctuations its regeneration. In my home in the suburbs of NY where mains line noise in this densely populated area is more of a problem, conditioning is the way to go. So, in conclusion, and I know I will not really give you an answer:
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Doesn’t any device that galvanically isolates the current prevent all noise? That’s why so may manufacturers use galvanic isolation in their circuits to clean data feeds. Seems to me that between galvanic isolation and the use of a filter and capacitor to ensure adequate current, you solve your problem-assuming you actually have a noise problem to begin with. I’ve added DC filtering to my circuit because of all the digital equipment in my house and the neighborhood |
I demoed and/or purchased a number of conditioners, regenerators over the years, Shunyata, Audience, PS Audio, Audioquest, I could see all being effective for some, so many variables to consider. For me BPT 3.5 Signature with custom Plitron transformer was the winner, further diy customization via film filtering caps and Oyaide R1 AC outlets. Always prefer amps straight into wall on dedicated 20amp, 10AWG dedicated circuit, this with anything from class a/b SS to 7wpc SET. transients always negatively affected by going through any of the pathways through conditioners, regenerators. |
@langla4 Galvanic isolation is a type is active power conditioning as well as a safety circuit to prevents high current from flowing to sensitive components or prevent shock. It uses electrical (isolation transformer) and physical isolation (gap) to assure the input and output is separated. Passive power conditioning uses capacitors, inductors, and resistors to filter noise from the power without actively changing the signal rather than isolating circuits. Theoretically, galvanic isolation prevents ground loops and potential differences between circuits by completely separating them, while passive power conditioning filters electrical noise on the mains (high-frequency disturbance). So, application is similar to prevent noise, but slightly different as well. |
