Crossing this way or that cannot improve anything, it might eliminate a problem.
Theory is one thing, are you having any problems? If so, I would find the errant interconnect cable.
My cables have been this way and that, including many parallel for more than 50 years in many locations/setups.
Most cables, even the cheap ones included in the box are problem free, occasionally, you get a bad cable. Disconnect, Switch them one pair at a time, ....
I now twist my speaker cables, neg around pos, takes a bit of extra length to do that. Ran them un-twisted for years, again, parallel, no problem.
|
Using balanced interconnects may help if there is interference occurring from running cables parallel to each other.
|
I wish I had a dollar for every time I have had to reconfigure my rack and have vowed that this time the result will be neat and organized, only to end up in the same place.
A rats nest of wires with no discernible pattern.
|
@tony1954
+1
Unfortunately, same with me. I get the speaker cables out and on elevators… and generally I can separate the interconnect to my amp in front. But the audio racks have a rats nest.
I am sure it is in that category of tiny difference. But one you should avoid if you can. Tiny differences add up. But unless you have a huge room and lots of money (to buy extra lengths to allow crossing at right angles)… it will probably remain on one’s wish list.
Iv’e not heard of wraps or special tweats. But great question. One of the tweakers must have experimented. I look forward to hearing.
|
Your cables should be shielded, so positioning isn't as critical as say- two wires with just insulation being crossed.
Bob
|
A rats nest of wires with no discernible pattern.
Rat's nests are very underrated/under appreciated. They serve a vital purpose.
All the best,
Nonoise
|
|
You are worrying too much about this! there is a difference between being neat and being obsessive for no reason, unless of course you are having a problem that you have not mentioned. Take the lid of your pre-amplifire and look inside for some aspiration. There are a number of steps you can take to untangle the mess but I think you already know what to do!
|
If you are using good shielded power and speaker cables, it is unlikely you’ll hear a difference no matter what you do. If you are using stock power cords and and zip cords as speaker wires, that’s another story.
All the best.
|
@ghdprentice
I do know it is low on the totem pole of audio tweaks, but my anal personality can't just forget about it. Every time I sit down to listen, I know it is lurking in the background. I can almost hear it snickering at me during the quieter moments.
|
Use shielded cables, keep them away from each other as much as possible, cross them at or close to right angles when you can, and then don’t worry any more about it unless you have a specific noise issue. If you feel better lifting them off the floor, use whatever works for you. I wouldn’t spend a bunch of money on that stuff, although years ago when I used to believe the advertising I read, I did buy a set of Cable Elevators.
An inexpensive alternative that I find to be handy is to cut pieces of foam pipe insulation, which you can use to provide separation between cables that are crossing each other or even to elevate cables off the floor, but not very high. I usually cut them about 2-inches long and use the pre-cut slit to insert the cable in the middle. Using one on each crossing cable and resting them against each other provides almost an inch of separation.
|
I simply try to keep mine from actually touching each other. It’s basically impossible not to have a wire cross here or there. The only cables I try to isolate as much as possible are my phono connects. Other than that, it is what it is. I wouldn’t worry much…
|
Well, @nonoise ...rats kinda find them pleasant, but.... ;)
@mitch2, the pipe insulation is likely the lowest cost option for cable lifts. 👍
I've been trying avoid a major revamp of my 'nest', the worst of which is the 5 pairs of speaker lines that at one point cross a 3' w. 'path'; for lack of a better term...
The Plan (at this time, anyhow) is to sequester the speaker lines, the ac and dc distributions, and the ic's as much as practical.
The speaker lines can be run straight down from the amp, under the 'rack', and run parallel to the various 'n sundry....
The ac/dc lines can drop vertically to their 'distribution means'; separate the more discrete audio items (amp, pre- and 'pre-subs' {eqs'), 'puters [2], and anything else of it's ilk), keeping in mind the power 'draws' each may use...
CD, TT's, tapes, and their peripherals' with their own power source...
All the 'signal' cables are essentially above all this, physically and conceptually...
Those of themselves could still be a nest of sorts....🤷♂️
I'm hoping for a 'cloud effect' visually....with the occasional detail of reasonable rationale....*L*
A variant of the 'foam tech' could look kewl in it's way.....'pipelines' leading to the 'sprayers'....;)
|
From bitter experience it is clear that cables move around in the night and tie themselves up in impossible knots. FACT
|
Agree that this shouldn’t matter - other than phono cables. If you’re really experiencing a problem or want to be anal - a little trick from the world of Fire Alarm notification wiring - where this does happen often and is heard. It requires custom cables. Use a shielded cable. Decide which end has the larger transformer / ground sink. Land the shield on that end. On the other end, pull the shield back a couple inches over the insulation and make certain it’s not in contact with anything. Always twist your pairs.
it helps to know what your up against - AC induction vs RF interference. Either way, FA guys have been doing this for years.
|
Thanks to everyone that responded, I'm really not obsessed with it. I was just curious if there was any way to better isolate things than what I'm doing.
It is good(?) to know that other people struggle with the same thing trying to just get their cables organized and it is just about an impossible job. That's why I wondered if there was anything to help.
Awhile back, I had some sheets from 3M that has some kind of shielding that I used, but of course those disappeared both from my supply and also from the marketplace. So I'll just happily move on and relax. And listen, like we are all supposed to do, right?
|
I always hear and read about how cables even most of the cheap ones are
shielded. Don’t almost all cable manufacturers brag about this and talk about all the
engineering that goes into this. I know in the automotive
industry there used to be a lot of problems with crosstalk
between computers and wires. We finally found that by twisting the wires on the bus lines these are the wires that carry all the communication between the computers. If we twisted them and made sure no other wires got in between them this would take care of all RFI problems also where they could not be twisted if we ran other wires at a 90 degree angle to them would also
eliminate any RFI and crosstalk
|
Tony 1954, same situation here. Then when I get them somewhat tidy, I end up back in there replacing cables or components.
|
I remember the guy on here who used to swear by hanging wires off the floor with fishing lines tied to the ceiling. And I say that with a straight face. Best advantage out of that system is you can vacuum under the wires. Enjoy!
|
Doesn't matter. Parallel, perpendicular, etc, all the same.
|
@baylinor
"I remember the guy on here who used to swear by hanging wires off the floor with fishing lines tied to the ceiling."
I have insider information that this is how Bass Pro Shops got started.
|
The Mapleshade rooms at audio shows featured their cables suspended from the ceiling. Reminded me of a spider web…
They probably did this as their very thin cables were totally unsheilded, making cross-talk on touching cables almost inevitable. Frankly, I always found the sound in their rooms to be ear-splittingly bright, very unpleasant.
|
@tony1954 “…I do know it is low on the totem pole of audio tweaks, but my anal personality can't just forget about it.”
Ahh, the sign of a true audiophile. 😊
|
@mitch2 nice
If you are using shielding, it's best to ground it.
|
|
@tony1954
Well, I completely get it and now retired, I really love my system… so, probably a good thing.
|
Crossing at 90 degree angles is a good practice, but don't put anything around your cables, they will just cause interference where there was none before. And unless you're using lamp cord or metal hangers, you won't hear anything either. This place is full of snake oil, tread lightly.
|
I don't comment much but I would like throw out a suggestion that might have some value here.
The cardboard centers from toilet paper rolls or paper towel rolls can be used to slide over power cords and interconnect (too I suppose) as a cheap tweak that can easily be undone if you decide you don't like the effect or the wife is wondering if you've lost your sanity😁
|
Crossing at 90 degrees is, technically, the "right" angle. That means that all others would be the "wrong" angle?
|
