SS gear has a hiss noise floor too. A well designed & implemented tube preamp and tube power amp pairing should be dead quiet, even with ear up to drivers, on 96 dB speakers. I can’t speak to efficiencies beyond that. You’ll run into problems if you have a bad gain structure, for example tube line stages with gains 20dB and more can be a problem for efficient speakers, especially when run through high sensitivity amps - this is just too much active gain after the volume control, which acts as a gate for maintaining maximum signal to noise ratio from your upstream gear. You also have to be careful with tube selection in a line stage - for example, the 6SN7 is popular, but the sweet sounding 1940’s variants often tend to have issues with noise and microphonics, which will hurt your noise floor. Later 1950s/60s GTA and GTB versions tend to be a lot quieter. And of course, modern production tubes can be selected to be very quiet.
Tube phono stages shine when you pair a good tube MM stage with a SUT or a JFET MC stage. It’s hard to eliminate all audible hiss, but it should be way below the level of groove noise. Here, the efficiency of your speakers does not matter, because your phono stage’s signal to noise ratio is preserved by the downstream volume control.
When I hook up VAC power amp (16 tubes), Master preamp (2 tubes), Renaissance SE Phono & SUT (6 tubes), it’s an exceptionally quiet noise floor on my 96dB Tannoys.
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All of my components are tubed. So far no hiss heard through my Zus.
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@wturkey LOL. That's what it seems like. A few years ago I had a Nuforce STA200 class a/b amp with a solid state pre and my Zu speakers. Sounded wonderful. I purchased a new Rogue RP-5 and the hiss was unbearable. I changed tubes, etcc..same thing. Come to find out, the Nuforce had 34.5 db of gain where most amps are around 26 db. Until I purchased my Firstwatt J2, I had to use a passive pre between the pre and amp to keep the hiss at normal range. The Rogue ended up having some issues and after going thru the pain of shipping it back for warranty repair, I traded it in on a new BHK pre. and got the Firstwatt. Quiet as a mouse now
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Tube gear has been around a lot longer than ss. I’m not getting the concern here. If it’s about hiss and gain, that’s certainly not related to the amount of tubes you have in your system. So if you feel tubes are inferior in that respect, I disagree.
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I’ve 18 tubes in my three box phono-preamp chain and any barely-audible hiss is well worth the liquid black and dimensional sound. Add in another 10 tubes in the monoblocs and it’s tubes all the way. Second rig is tubes too. Admittedly, speakers are not efficient but are very transparent.
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Welcome to Audiogon where everyone’s tube system is perfectly dead quiet……sans that Clark character. Lol
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The tube system is in a basement bedroom and by the time the first album is finished, the room is comfy warm😄.
I hear you. That's why I'm going back to SS.
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I have two systems. One is all tube and one is SS.
The tube system is in a basement bedroom and by the time the first album is finished, the room is comfy warm😄.
Oh and it’s dead quiet.
JD
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Only if you have to strip down to your undershorts and turn on a fan to stay in the same room with them during the winter...
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I'd been 100% solid state up until a year or so ago. 1st it was my eBay score STAX SRM-007tA driving my Koss/Drop 95/X Electrostatic Headphones. This led to my trading in ALL my PS Audio Stellar Amplifiers for a BAT VK50-SE (with enough to spare to but 8x 6H30's cause the one's inside were "tired"). Then finally, I bought a brand new Jolida 3502p and installed 4x KT150's (sold the unused 6550 tubes that it came with).
I would run that Amplifier for a glorious 8 months before selling it to a good home. I'd demo'd an Orchard Audio Ultra Amplifier and this reminded of the beauty of Class D GaN when done correctly. Driven directly from my PS Audio DSSr. DAC, it was pretty damn good with the "Tubiness" of the Jolida Amplifier. Driven with the BAT Preamp inserted into the audio literally "kicked things up a notch".
Then I inserted the Joilda back into the fold with and without the Preamp. It felt 2nd order harmonic overload. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But it wasn't for me.
So I'm now a Tube Boob on the input side of things but Transistors/GaN's on the back end of the chain.
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I’m all SS. So YES, 1 is too many tubes.
My father was more than happy to go SS in 1964. Just too many compromises with tubes. Hasn’t changed. Tube rolling, any one?
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25 tubes, 93db speakers, unshielded interconnects and quiet.
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No. My tube system is dead quiet. I would know if it wasn’t since they power horns.
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Geoff you also have HQ tube gear as many of us do I. To many cheap tubes with mediocre components yes you can have to much.
With Tube gear do not skimp.
My tube gear is dead silent also.
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I have 36 tubes in my audio chain and it is dead quiet and the best system I have ever heard.
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...doesn't the tube hiss (just like tape hiss every time you copy a tape over and over) intensify with every component?
No it doesn't. Tube gear should be dead quiet. If you have hiss most likely one of your amplified stages has too much gain. You can lower that with an attenuator. I have 6 tube amps (and a few tube preamps) all are absolutely quiet.
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It's not about too many tubes it's about the right components and how well they work together. I have tubes in everything but my streamer and it sounds sublime because the tubes are in good components that work well together.
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What's a tube his?
What is tube HISS? A sound that a noisy valve (tube) makes. Usually more pronounced as you volume up. No need for any floor noise with just a little attention to noisy or microphonic tubes. Proper cable routing, especially power cables is kinda 101 for valve guys..
Dead quiet here.
If tube dampeners are recommended by an amp manufacture, it's a good bet cheap noisy tubes are involved or have been along the way.. Some equipment just sucks with so so valves. Not a big fan of needing high dollar or rare valves to get good sound..
Regards
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No. I don’t but it’s OK for "one."
What’s a tube his? And why would anyone serial copy analog in modern times?
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Nope, not if equipment well designed, good AC, proper grounding, quality tubes. One of my amps 845SET matched to 104db sensitivity speakers, a bit more noise than 300B SET's, still not obtrusive.
I too like my dac solid state. Ran a tube dac with other tube equipment in past system, that was only time I experienced excessive tubes in system, although not because of tube hiss.
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As stated above, they need to be high quality to begin with and have ZERO noise
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Generally speaking, no .... I do like my DAC to be solid state though
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Depends upon the quality of your tube gear and properly functioning tubes, particularly with higher efficiency speakers. Using all tubes in front of 96db speakers and all is dead quiet. ZOTL LTA UL amps are noiseless as are my Herron pre and phono. Tubes AND Zero Noise are essential in getting great sound IMHO.
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I have been a tube freak for 50 years , must out there is scam and
the best there just plain old . Even just laying there for 50 years has its effect .
I have to to give in to D .
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Yes you can. I love efficient speakers like Zu but not tubes.
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I had mostly all tube gear (amp, preamp, cd player, phono amp, headphone amp) with very efficient speakers for several years, never had tube hiss issues.
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It’s the overall tube amp design and implementation that normally matters for sound. Not # tubes.
Where # tubes matter is when one starts to go bad. You have more tubes to test and verify in order to isolate the issue than otherwise. So in general more tubes means harder to maintain over time.
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