I wouldn't go so far as to call your Krell "garbage", but it's not very good. You could easily find something better. You could get a really nice integrated for what you have budgeted.
Is it my amp or my speakers?
I've been dissatisfied with my system of late--wanting a little more brightness and color--and can't decide if it's the amp or the speakers, or both. Here's the set-up:
- Krell KAV-300i integrated
- Cyrus CD-T
- Schiit Gungnir DAC
- Tekton Lore speakers
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I had an old Mark Levinson amp that I bought new and re capped after 20 years and thought it sounded OK until I replaced it and realized it didn't sound OK. It was dull and muffled and slow, I went to a class D amp which was energetic and a bit bright but ran circles around the ML and now replaced that with a class A, and now it's just right. |
Krell in general is bright. Not shocked it is the amp. At 25 years old, all sorts of things could be deteriorating including the caps in the power supply. You could take the Krell in for a good refurbishing and that might solve your problem. Alternatively, a new amp will work. Lots of choices. If the Marantz sounded good, Marantz has a series of very good integrated amps that are modestly priced that will likely deliver on what you want/need. The new Marantz Model 30 is $2500. Alternatively, a used PM 14s1 would be wonderful. I would have to check if the Model 30 is made in China, the PM14s1 was made in Japan. If the Marantz was better but you still wanted more in terms of brightness, I would look at Musical Fidelity if made in Taiwan (not part of China, sort of) is Okay. The M6si is a brilliant integrated amp. For made in the USA, the PS Audio Stellar Strata would likely be a good option and PS Audio will take your Krell as is on trade vs. it. I am sure there are others that will work wonderfully. Good luck |
Finally had a chance to employ the very good advice and swapped out the amp to see if that was the problem. The only other amp I have is a Marantz AV receiver that’s been configured for 3.1 setup and a very different room dynamic, but I gave it a go anyway. The verdict: it *is* the amp. Even with the biases, the Marantz showed more detail than the Krell which, in comparison, sounded... muddy. So, now, I’m in the market for an amp: integrated, solid state, type A or A/B, not made in China, price <$3000. Any suggestions, please let me know. Otherwise, thanks again for the assistance. P.S. I may still change out the speakers. |
I skipped over the other suggestions so if someone said this already please ignore this. $3k to spend. Used okay? If not you just cut your performance in half. Know nothing of your CD player. I would buy a Cambridge Audio Integrated. Or a ChiFi Tube Integrated if you like that sound better. Upgrade the speakers to something pleasant sounding. So many choices. Assume you have $2k of the $3k left. Shop used Focal as you like more forward sound. Borrow a better CD player somewhere after you have the other gear. You will likely replace it too. |
I build speakers and amps. Recently I acquired the Purifi Audio EVAL1 power amp modules. These use the output modules used in the NAD 33 which is getting rave reviews. It is amazing how a great amp can make good speakers perform their best. Starke Sound has its AD4.320 on a "Black Friday" special. The best buy in power amps. It sounds as good as the Purifi unit and is a complete unit, ready to go out of the box. These amps have made every speaker I have connected them to sound wonderful. They are better than anything I ever built. They make my Golden Ear Triton 1s come alive. I'd say no speaker can do its best with a poor amp. If your Krell has preamp outputs, the Starke amp will amaze you. Emotiva has inexpensive preamps that sound fine if the Krell's preamps don't do the job for you.. |
That krell integrated is garbage and I own krell amps. It is cheaply made and sounds nothing like a krell. It’s fatiguing and bright and makes you want to pull your hair out. I’d dump it. Good luck. stated too strongly, but i would have to agree with the gist, esp. on bright/harsh sound quality - i was not impressed with this unit when i had it... NOT Krell’s finest hour for sure |
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Trying out returnable cables may be cheapest fix shipping wise. +1 Tekton especially the double impact, but their speakers are rather large GoldenEar Tritons - another great price/performance speakers with many positive reviews You could look for used speakers to get better price/performance, but it'll add much more complexity to your research. |
I had Tekton Lore reference speakers. I was at a tipping point, as I’d initially heard Tektons with a tube amp...but had always favored solid state. Moving to/investing in a quality tube rig was just not in the budget, nor doable with our house setup (needed to keep things simple) plus I’d gotten a really decent solid state integrated. I sold my Tektons and got some Totems - which I think are better for me and sound so great with my amp - and never looked back. Point being, pairing is a big deal. As stated above, try and try your Tektons with other amps (tubes and solid state) and your Krell with other speakers if possible. Now wish I had tried mine with tubes and/or could have kept those Tektons...better to exhaust a good portion of that curiosity with trial and error. |
The amp is 25 years old and the speakers are 8 1/2 years old. The amp/speaker match should be ok. Has this combo always sounded this way or is this something recent? Before you start spending money, try to pinpoint the problem. Try someone else’s amp in your system or try your amp in someone else’s system. Or borrow an amp from your local dealer. The Krell is a nice integrated but they wear out like anything else. The bottom line is we don't know if the issue is with your amp or your speakers, but you should find out before you spend your money. |
I have Moabs. https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367 Wife likes em a lot. I let her pick the color. The thing about Tekton, Eric has come up with a technology and design approach so superior to others he is able to offer speakers that out-perform anything in their class, price-wise. That's guaranteed to trigger, especially seeing a name nearby who totally does not get it. And he is not alone. They can stay clueless for all I care. Whatever, the point is the magic in his low mass/low stiction approach really only comes to full fruition in his MTM array designs. This is where the superiority of the tweeter array over a conventional midrange driver really shows. Double Impacts, are a little less than half an array, yet look at the reviews. I've never heard them but talking to those who have, and have heard others like Moabs, I have a pretty good idea what to expect. Your Lores are really good speakers, but they are made for the guy with a few tube watts who listens very near field to violins and stuff and wants that nice warm glow sound. Bet they are just beautiful for that. You probably were quite happy with them, until enough things got better and you're in a position to want and have more. Makes perfect sense. Just get em in a nice neutral dark gray, or whatever the wife prefers, you will be fine. Mine felt like monsters at first, but only at first, and then there's the sound, when you hear that you know its totally worth it. Whatever you do, the last thing you want to do is overreact. Worst thing you could do is go out looking for speakers with a bright top end. Double Impacts, Moabs, do not have a bright top end. They have a right top end. That's what you want. Do it right, you will be happy for another 8 years, at least. |
Its not that hard. Your budget is $3k. The choice is clear. https://www.tektondesign.com/double-impact.html |
Thanks all for the v. insightful analysis. Got what I had hoped for from the community. Majority verdict: the speakers. I like the Tekton business model, but the array of speakers is way overwhelming (there were many fewer options when I purchased mine, 8-1/2 years ago). Back to the endless task that is research! Thanks to @smrex13 for the very good suggestion of "Places like Crutchfield and Music Direct have trial periods that will allow you to hear the speakers at home with your system. " |
Assuming all units of model X sound the same is not a safe assumption. Some may operate better than others. Especially older gear and even if work was done on it. Not saying it’s the amp but not possible to rule that out with the limited facts on hand. If not happy then try something different and see what happens. The Bel Canto c5i is an integrated that is never inherently bright and can drive most any speaker to modest volume well and would not cost much to try used. But assuming the amp is working well I like that Krell very much and would hesitate to part with it if it has served me well over the years. The Tekton Lore would be more special were you using a modest powered tube amp. With the Krell in good operating condition or with other similar quality beefier SS amps, you have unlimited speaker choices that will match up well. |
ignoring your speakers for a minute, i see the other gear you have i would say the sound is bright, a little harsh in the treble, a little recessed in the mids, strong in the bass so if you seek brightness, it has gotta be the speakers - i don’t know the tektons, much less your tektons... they make so many models covering the waterfront, no idea what is the sound character of yours... tekton’s better speakers certainly are known for their impact, neutrality and clarity - your specific model, maybe not... other poster below says they are smeared/smoothed over ... that may well be spot on... |
I had the Tekton M-Lore, and I thought they sort of smoothed everything over. So, in my opinion, you'd be best served by finding different speakers. Also keep in mind that speakers will have a much more significant impact on the overall sound of your system than an amp change. The Krell should drive most speakers without issue, so I'd suggest reading up on speaker reviews and trying to demo (if possible) a speaker or two that seems like it has the sound profile you're looking for. Places like Crutchfield and Music Direct have trial periods that will allow you to hear the speakers at home with your system. Good luck and have fun! Scott |
I owned a Krell KAV-300i for a while. It had a grainy edge that made it hard to listen to. I think A Vincent SV-237 would give you more of what you're looking and you have the option of rolling tubes in the preamp section. Simaudio makes some really nice integrateds, but they are going to be more neutral (are you sure you want "bright"?), but lots of detail and definition. |
Looking at the way he balances his speakers I would suspect them. This model has a rising bottom end and a falling top end, both together will make it sound tilted in the favour of a darker sound. https://www.stereophile.com/images/718TekIMfig3.jpg Nevertheless, throughout the measuring, the Tekton’s low frequencies sounded rather exaggerated. The tweeter array becomes gradually more directional as the frequency increases, but in a well-controlled manner up to 15kHz, above which the speaker’s output drops very rapidly to the sides of the central tweeter axis.Here’s another frequency graph done on another model, as you can see again, falling HF this time starting at 1.5khz!! https://i.imgur.com/CvgtJLsh.jpg Cheers George |