you might check the VS circle over on Audiocircle.com. Hope posting this is not against the rules.
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I wouldn't touch a Von Scheikert product with a 10ft pole. Von Schweikert has to keep on using gimmicks to stay in business. They have no dealers, and no industry support. One tack they tried was over pricing most of their products and then offered ridiculous deals to get people to purchase them. There are so many superior products available from real companies, Von Schweikert has been out of buesiness twice allready! I owned VR 4JR decent speaker but nothing special. |
Let's see. The question was if anyone had heard the VSA VR 33 and Audiofreakgeek's answer was a rant on why you shouldn't buy anything from Von Schweikert! What the hell is that?? Why in the world would you post that? You must have some special axe to grind. What is your personal beef with the company? There are many satisfied owners of Von Schweikert speakers, including myself. Must you pounce on the OP with your personal issue? Did you have a financial interest with VSA? Is it a crime to go out of business, particularly when the first time was due to a flood? Get off it. If you can answer the question, do so, or be quiet! |
Wow! I can't get over audiogeekfreak's bashing on VSA. I have the VR-33's and I love them. The amount of sound these speakers reproduce and the clarity throughout the entire frequency response is amazing. My wife loves the cloth wrap and the high gloss black caps. We don't have alot of space in our living room, so I have the VR-33's just a few inches from the wall and the bass response is smooth and tight. The price was great. It would of cost me 3 to 4 times as much to find a comparable speaker. I highly recommend this speaker for anyone who appreciates high quality sound. |
Hmmmmmmmmmm. I thought dealers were supposed to disclose their affiliations, especially when criticizing a manufacturer. "Agenda" appears to be putting it mildly. I own VR-7's and Albert was very helpful in guiding me through a bypass V-Cap crossover mod in order to further enhance the resolution and dynamics of my speakers. |
I would also love to have more information in the 33s. I love my VR-4JRs, but I know Albert from our long phone conversations and I am sure each model is an improvement. Speaking of dealers, I read that when Albert decided to drop most of his retail dealers and go internet and a few exclusive dealers, that some of his dealers were miffed. I read some of the comments from said dealers on the net at the time and they dissed his speakers when they were just mad about the way he did business with them. I bought my VR-4JRs on close-out from one of the internet dealers who struck a deal with Albert for his remaining stock. He then closed out some models and now makes and sells fewer and higher end models. Nonetheless, he still was willing to talk to me on the phone, is very accessible, and stands behind his products. I highly recommend his speakers, no matter what his ex-dealers say. After all, that's just business. I'm only after the sound, and he makes great speakers. |
Let's face it, it is a very tough business environment out there for all businesses and I am sure those in higher end audio can feel the pinch more acutely. Albert through his dealer network built a very good reputation for his products and his service after the sale and I am sure believed that this would transition smoothly to an online model. It seems like Thiel audio may have been leaning in this direction also. For those that have run a business, you know that plans almost never go exactly as we expect, but this is what makes it fun! We should all appreciate Albert's efforts to make innovative products. And at the end of the day, if he makes a great speaker at a price we like we should buy it. FWIW, I used 4JRs in my system for quite some time and still use VR-1 and SVS-1 sub in my HT and have no affiliation with VSA. |
Disclosure - I am an audio manufacturer as well as owning a retail company. I am not a VS dealer. I don't know how anyone who has owned a VS speaker or ever spoken to Albert can have anything negative to say. Albert and his crew seemed to me to be very down to earth, honest people. I spent some time hanging out with them at this year's RMAF (one of his room was down the hall from ours) and also spent some time listening to the VR33 speakers. I won't go into the typical "you need to hear these" routine but would recommend finding out if someone near you has a pair that you can audition. I'll leave it at that. I have no agenda other than hating to see good people get bashed for no justified reason. By the way, I shut down for a couple months when we got hit by the 2006 flood in Upstate NY.......Still here. |
Yes, 90 days...but you are on the hook for shipping which ain't cheap at over 100 lbs apiece. I talked to Albert Von Schweikert and he said only one pair has been returned so far, and they were unopened, guy got a divorce and couldn't keep them. I have a pair on order and will be getting them in a couple of weeks. |
There are advantages to an in-home audition - especially one that can be done over 1-2 months. VS is not the only company to offer this to its customers. Yes, shipping is not cheap. And, yes, the return process is a pain in the butt. However, IMHO, the ability to assess speaker-room interaction and to use your own front end more than makes up for the cost and hassle if you choose to return the speakers. (Conversely, I suspect that potential "keepers" who are on the fence may opt not to return the speakers because of return shipping cost and hassle.) |
they are just plain and unremarkable ..... In your opinion dude. I and MANY others disagree. The 4JRs that I still have in my secondary system are beyond reproach and I struggled long and hard to find a better speaker, including some highly regarded Proac 3.8 I did a side by side with (at that time they were 3x the price). Wasnt even close for me, the VS were that good. My VS 5 anniversaries.... unremarkable??? I would put those speakers up against pretty much anything out there. VS make some kick ass speakers, and at their various price points there is little that compares (IMO) Cheers and good listening. |
I heard the VR 33's at RMAF last fall with fairly inexpensive Jolida gear. I thought they sounded as good or better than anything else I heard there in that price class. Made everything from contemporary jazz to rock and hard rock sound enjoyable and made me want to stay and listen more. If I were looking in this price range, they would certainly be on the short list. I don't understand why someone would post their comments on a speaker they have apparently never heard. |
"I hope it sounds better than it looks" The same could certainly be said about the Vandersteen 3A signature. The 3A and VR33 look more alike than different. I will not comment on the Vandies sound, as I have not heard them. I will say that I have liked the sound of the Vandersteen speakers I have heard very much. I am sure it would be an interesting comparison between the two. |
Just an FYI I saw this review on Stereomojo about the Von Schwikert VR-33 speakers. I thought it may be of some help. StereoMojo VS VR-33 review |
I have owned VSA VR5 HSE's for some 6 years now and have been an audiophile for some 40 years. This gives me no special insight other than a lot of experience listening to different speakers over the course of the years, both in my own systems and in those of friends neighbors and audio shows. The VSA speakers I own have stood the test of time. I do not think about replacing them. In fact,I hardly think about the at all any longer, other than to admire their stately beauty. They listed for $12,000 when new and are the most transparent, neutral, "invisible" speakers I have heard at anywhere near that price or dollar equivalents from bygone days. They also look brand new. So how anyone who has to VSA speakers can call them mediocre is beyond me. And whether or not a specialty high end audio business is successful depends on many factors aside from the quality of the products. As scientists say: Correlation is not causation! Neal |
Wow - not sure why you would deliberately slam a speaker line you haven't recently heard yourself at all. That's not trading of ideas, its just looking to pick a fight. That helps nobody. How can anyone care what you think about VS speakers, when you obviously haven't even listened to them? Or am I missing something? Most of your prior comments I have read on other threads have been thoughtful and well-reasoned. I think you missed on this one, unless of course your goal was just to stir up VS owners. You really aren't helping the OP either, IMO, with just a blanket negative generalization. It might have been better to say you didn't like the VS speakers that you heard, listing them and when you heard them - just a suggestion if you truly want to "trade ideas". |
Making comments, either positive or negative, about a speaker you admit you have never heard is certainly NOT reasonable. The exchange of ideas and experiences should be in regards to the product in question, because that is what the OP asked about. I really don't know what is so hard to understand about that. |
Chadnliz, you seem to have a special penchant for drawing this type of reaction out of other contributors. It is your original "butt puckered up" approach that precipitated the negative reactions in this thread. Nobody is looking for reassurance, what we all want is good objective information on the specific subjects that we are trying to learn about. You have NOTHING of actual or real substance to offer on this matter, you have not heard the speaker in question, have never owned any speaker in the line, have never dealt with the company in any real way so what possible value can you add? Most of all - you were not trying to help anybody. |
Maineiac, there's undeniable logic to what you just posted, but in fairness to Chadnliz his post was fairly mild and easily ignored. If there really is a standard against uninformed opinionating, then 30-40% of the postings on the entire Audiogon forums should be disqualified. I suggesting that rather than confront, which in turn always draws out further uninformed opinions, it's better right from the get go to ignore. Audiofreakgeek's post is the one that needs further commenting. He asserts the Von Schweikert has no industry support. This is a verifiable statement. I realize it's a sensitive subject, but it would be helpful if retail dealers would comment about whether they would carry VS's products if they were made available. Just a few saying that they would disproves the original assertion. |
generally speaking, i'm with onhwy61--uniformed/idiotic posts are usually best ignored. however, i think a quality manufacturer like vs deserves better than a dismissive putdown. all the vs stuff i've owned or heard is beautifully built and finished and sounds great. considering that their aesthetics and full-rangeness, i think they're very good value, too, esp. used. |
You guys need a pill, I said there was nothing wrong with his speakers just that IMO his speakers are unremarkable and nothing that up's the speaker game. So you caught me not actually hearing this model in question but if I think the models I have heard were nothing special with their more expensive materials and build quality why would it be likely I find a budget sock wrapped model with even cheaper parts to truely shine? Maybe once I hear them I will change my mind but my experience tells me thats not likely. This isnt your wife or mom guys, its a speaker so chill out. So entertain me then since your all so eager for Albert, what exactly is ground breaking, cutting edge, or game changing about this speaker........or any of his? I am looking ever so forward to your enlightenment. |
I've heard quite a few iterations of Alberts speakers and not only thought they were nothing special, but actually find them not a good speaker at all. ..to the point that a friend of mine and I who were auditioning the speakers couldn't believe that they were competitive in any way. Naturally, there are some who either don't know what real music sounds like in real space, or prefer their version of what music sounds like in real space. You pay your money, and get what you want. |
Stringgreen If you are going to go there too. I must be one of the few that don't know what real music is cause I preferred the VS 5 Annies over the Vandies you own. I found the vandies 5A had a narrow sweet spot, lack of dyanamics on much of the techno/prog stuff I listen to. Also midbass hump I couldn't understand given the ability to tune , not worth 7K let alone 17 IMO. That DID not sound like real music to me. But you get what you like - right. The VS on the other hand did everything right - for me anyway. Good luck to you. Chadnliz - you make me laugh. Pinoy6 Don't let anyone on these boards influence you. Go and seek out a dealer or a audio club with owners of these fine speakers and listen/decide for yourself. Good listening to all no matter your poison. |
What music should sound like? Maybe for some it is about what sounds good to their ears, even if it is not "right". In the audio game does "right" equal better when it comes to enjoyment? I listen to mostly rock and pop, and the VSA has done a better job with that type of music than anything else I have owned. Albert Von Schweikert also played instruments in his early years too so Stringreen 's opinion is just that, his. |
I only heard a pair of VS4jr and can't comment on the VR33. The only thing I am commenting on is Arkio's comments on the Vandersteen 5A concerning the "midbass hump" he heard. My question to you Arkio what were the circumstance you heard this and how familiar were you with the system in question? One of the things I always loved about the Vandersteen speakers in general from their Model 2-5 is their ability to NOT do that midbass hump which I hear in SO MANY speakers with aspirations for a true bottom end. I won't bash any speaker as an example but I find this to be very prevalent among many speakers I've listened to. The reason the Vandersteens DON't do this is one of the primary reasons these speakers have stood the test of time. I have no dog in this fight but I am intimately familiar with Vandersteen speakers and your comments in my mind can only be taken in a context that it was a brief listen in an unfamiliar system or the system was indeed not tuned in. I don't mean to hijack this thread but that comment really jumped out at me and I find it completely erroneous in my experience with these speakers. |
Arkio... You just proved that you don't know what real music sounds like. Vandersteens are universally acclaimed as not only being one of the best speakers in all their price ranges, but also a bargain at those ranges. I am not trying to reprimand you...I just think you should go to more live music concerts. I would offer a recommendation not to sit in the orchestra section (squashed dynamics, poor frequency response, no line of sight to the back of the orchestra), but the front of the first balcony provided there is no ceiling above you. As for Alberts speakers, I maintain that not only are they are not MY idea of what a speaker should be, but also that Albert himself does not belong in the company of the heads of many audiophile companys many of whom I have met and who are very friendly and ethical people. |
Nice cheap shot on AVS, Stringreen. Your opinion is just that and you have a lot of nerve trying to tell ANYONE, unsolicited, how to LISTEN to anything. You do not qualify to give anyone such advice, nor do I. It doesn't matter what you do or how often you have participated or gone to "live events". There are many different types of "live evernt and one size does not fit all. There are also plenty of people who think Vandersteens are underperforming speakers. The advice to go to more live concerts, again unsolicited, is is just your own pompous opinion. I guess all those people who spend good money to sit in the orchestra section also don't know what they are doing either, right? I have also met very friendly and ethical heads of many audiophile companies, and have in fact had a number of them in my listening room. It is obvious you have an issue with AVS, and your dislike for his speakers can't help but be colored by such animosity, IMO. I know AVS and we have had our differences, but I certainly wouldn't slam his speakers just because I got my feelings hurt... :-) |
The whole idea of these posts are to learn and offer opinions. The whole idea of high fidelity which is what we all deal with on these posts is the replication of music as it was performed in real life without editorial manipulation. I'm sure there are those who don't care for Vandersteen speakers just as there are those who don't like Porsches, Gulfstream airplanes, or the works of Beethoven. ...then there are those that know what they are talking about.... |
"There are also plenty of people who think Vandersteens are underperforming speakers." Then again there are plenty that have put their money down, case in fact; the Model 2 has sold over 100K speakers during its run, something must be intrinsically right for that degree of success. My guess? Great full range performance for the price of admission. Maybe not preferable to some, I get that but underperforming? thats a stretch. Again this comment in no way reflects on VS speakers. |
Hi Tubegroover, I am not going to go into detail telling you about my various auditions of the Vandersteens and everything surrounding that and why I ultimately passed on them. As I think this thread has already derailed enough and its quite sad. Having folks come here to bash or give unsolicited negative opinions, on a VS thread no less, about how bad those speakers and the company are, with generalizations, even admitting they did not even listen to the speakers in question, speaks volumes about the posters. But back to the Vandies for a moment. I would have rather spent 17K rather than almost double for my speakers. As I really did want to like them, given good press and all. But ultimately they did not impress me at all. Sorry if that offends you. There were lots of things I did not like about them for their asking price, including the minor inconsequential things like their looks, (they are truly ugly IMO, especially for 17K), but others seem to like that plain jane look . The mid-bass hump was more like pronounced bass, overbloated and overdone. It was with various pieces of music, including vinyl. Maybe the setting on the bass amps were off but I heard that in various setups. I have a couple dealers here where I live that carry/carried Vandersteens, but the auxiliaries where I listened to them the most were all Macintosh equipment, the other place was a mish mash of equipment, but mostly Ayre. So maybe it was that, but I didnt think so at the time. I have been an audiophile for 20 years and I know what I hear. Again, sorry if that flies in the face of your experience . I would not have brought it up if not goaded by Stringreen. Maybe with setup and mix and matching of auxiliary equipment it would be better, and probably is, but I had heard enough at that point to turn me off altogether. I am sure the 7s are better, but at 45K they better be. Stringreen My hearing is perfect. Perfect flat line at 0db on the audiogram, six years running. I get it checked yearly. Also I go to dozens of concerts yearly including many unplugged ones. I love all types of music. In fact I am going to see Blackfield next week should be awesome. It is funny tho how quickly you went on the defensive when I said something negative about your speakers. Someone famous once said you can dish it out but you cant take it. You should think about that before posting broad generalizations about anything, especially negative ones. Oh BTW, the comment that Chad made about you being a musician, as if that somehow entitles you to some special hearing ability is nonsense and does not make you an authority for anything, especially in what real music sounds like. I know quite a few musicians personally that are stone deaf because of all the playing they have done in their life and a acoustic guitar player or two that couldnt strum a chord cleanly if their life depended on it. Besides, most of my musician friends listen to pro gear that sounds absolutely NOTHING like your Vandersteens, and most musicians would probably not be caught dead listening to them. But hey, I am glad you derive pleasure from your speakers, and I have no doubt you have optimized them to your liking, but dont make judgment calls about what others listen to and like just because it doesnt fit into your small view of things/experiences. Also WGAS that Albert doesnt belong to some high and mighty audio fraternity, as if that has any bearing on quality of speakers the man designs. Back to the music boys....Im done with this nonsense. |