Should Sound Quality of Computer Audio be improved

Unable to respond to, "Mach2Music and Amarra: Huge Disappointment"- Thread. Other Members take free pop-shots!
Apparently some have more Freedom Of Speech than others! I
don't know how many times I have said it, I want Computer
Audio to succeed! It will only succeed if Computers are designed from the ground up to reproduce Music (Same minimum standard applied for Equipment of ALL Audio Formats)! This is common sense Audio Engineering Design. Bandaid Modifications cannot be substituted for absence in design to produce Music! Design it right to EARN the right to become a New Audio Format- same as all other Audio Formats! No Freebee's, No Cutting Corners! Lack of design is what's causing such varied results in S.Q. between
listeners of Computer Audio. I see about 50% negative
responses here on these Threads. It will continue to happen unless you fix it! Blaming me won't help! I am an
Engineer, and I can read results! 50/50 success/ failure
rate- you have an inherit Engineering Design Flaw for the
reproduction of Music via Computers! Shock! Suprise- since
they were never designed for Music! So when is someone finally going to properly design the Equipment/Computer
(From the ground up) for Computer Audio? Do we continue
to treat any real criticism as "HERESY" in the lack of
design in Computer Audio for Music? You tell me what I am
allowed to talk about, and we will both know!
Chadeffect- 32 Bit Remastered to CD is available. 32 Bit
as a High Res. Download- IS NOT! High Res. Downloads, and
High Res. Disks (Of the same release) do NOT sound the
same! Some of the Disks sound better, on other releases
some of the Downloads sound better. Shoot, even some of
the 24/96 Downloads sound different than same release in
24/192 Download. Even some of the 16/44.1 Downloads sound
better than both! Same Computer File- No! Try different
process of Remastering for each. Ditto for comparison
between Disk, and Download of same release. How was it
Remastered for the Disk? How was it Remastered for the
Download? Do you think that a "MULTI-CHANNEL" 24/96 MLP
Disk, and a "TWO CHANNEL" 24/96 Download of the same
come from the same Master? From the same Computer File?
Are there any Multi-Channel 24/96 Downloads available? Are
there any 32 Bit Downloads available (Compressed to 16/44.1
or not)? Any K2 HDCD Downloads available? Any XRCD24
Downloads available? Any Blue-Ray Audio Downloads available? WHY NOT??? All of these Formats involve a
different process of Remastering. Some of them involve the
same Sampling Rate, some don't, some don't even involve
the same number of channels. I understand that many HDTrack
Downloads are compressed FLAC Files, yet all of you profess
an ignorance of data compression for Disk! This is simply a laughable, clumsy, and pathetic attempt at distortion.
Everything off of the Disk is still 16/44.1, no matter if
it is compressed or not- THIS IS YOUR ARGUEMENT?
I enjoy listening to High Res. Disks (When they sound
better than High Res. Downloads). I enjoy listening to High
Res. Downloads (When they sound better than High Res. Disks). Selection in both doesn't add up to a hill of beans. You want to rob me of even this with "Soon all New
Music will only be available as Downloads". Top that off
with "Re-read the posts and find me one...O-N-E example of
Chad, Timlub, myself or anyone stating that they would like to annihiliate ANY Format". Go back to that former
statement, and throw Vinyl in there with "ALL" opposing
Formats to be eliminated. This is not Code, or Speaking in
Tongues- it is plain English. Something that you twist into
a "Double Talk", or "Double Speak" KNOT!
I am simply trying to protect my Music. You simply want to steal my Music by limiting my options, limit my
selection, and limit me as to how I can even be allowed to
listen to my Music. You also want to limit my access to
High Res. Audio without adequate Selection to replace it.
What's next? Do you want to steal my first born as well?
I show concern about access to my favorite Music, and get
ridiculed by "So-called" Audiophiles! Audiophiles who claim
that they value "Sound Quality" over Computer convenience.
They value it so much that they want to provide it as much as possible over many Formats, so that any "Common Man" can
enjoy it. If this doesn't describe you, I am not the problem! Try looking in the mirror. You might not like what
you see. Replacing all Formats with a single one (Downloading) simply isn't necessary in the Audio Market. No-one here has explained the necessity of doing so, no-one
is even trying to explain. This pretty much means that it is an un-necessary sacrifice. I don't believe in sacrifice,
human or otherwise. I find it very crude, and "Inhuman".
NOT an honor as some of you believe. I believe different
that you, LEAVE IT BE! I don't think that you have a choice. Sorry! I am not going Aztec today, or ever. You
guys ARE gluttons for punishment, and you don't even realize just how far. It has nothing to do with me, or
opposing Formats I use. It all has to do with "YOUR" big
concern over opposing Formats. I don't see the "OPPOSITION"
angle at all. Obviously-YOU DO! Your task to explain it.
You haven't done so yet! I challenge you to do so before
you are given the Plug to Pull on the Disks. Arrogance has
to be earned. Must you demand everything for free? No more
freebees. In this Economy, are you kidding?
Um Petty - I asked for an example - O-N-E example - no surprise, you weren't able to come up with one - because you are living in your own paranoid fantasy land.

Your entire argument is based on lies and you know it.

You show your lack of understanding every time you post. Since you don't seem to read my posts I won't bother to correct you.

Concern over opposing formats? Haha. I worry about it every second of the day. Read the above posts. You show your ignorance.

Where do you think your high res comes from? More ignorance here.

As for your multichannel understanding haha! All the stereo version is is the same multitrack with the panning adjusted or consolidated. A lot of the stuff in the rears is reverb anyway depending on the recording. I suppose you think they have a surround microphone? No. It's a selection of mics which are panned to create the illusion of placement. Or a reverb unit which places the stereo in a surround setting... Oh and what resolution do you think that lexicon or Bricasti reverb unit is?
Chadeffect- so I can Download the same "Multi-track", apply
the same software to get the same result? How do you know
which Releases "DO", "DO NOT" use a Surround Microphone?
So we will be stuck with "Two-Channel" High Res. Downloads,
limited to 24/192 glass ceiling? I suppose we wont be able
to use Surround Sound Microphones there either? Neither will we be able to use 32 Bit, or DXD. If you are not
Downloading the Multi-Track, then you are Downloading a
Two-Channel Remastered Copy. You claim that High Res. is
Remastered the same either on Disk, or Download. I ask:
So where are the Multi-Channel 24/96,24/192 Downloads to
replace the MLP Disks? So where are the Multi-Channel DSD
SACD Downloads to replace the SACD Disks? So where are the
Remastered Blue-Ray Audio Downloads to replace the Blue-ray
Audio Disks? Are we supposed to make these ourselves with
nothing more than a 24/192 Two-Channel High Res. Download
"FLAC" Music File? We have to "Remaster" our own Music on
our Computer, and pay for the priviledge? I have my collection of "Master Tapes" of all Music from all ages. I
will dig them out of the attic, and get right on that!
Hfisher3380- the fact that you still argue this point
belies your intent. You argue to death the benefit of going
all Downloading Format sans other Formats. Then go "Ponchous Pilate" washing your hands of all respondsibility. You act like you never seen "Soon all New Music will only be available as Music Downloads" on this
Thread, or any other. You act like you never have heard these words. Now First time you have "EVER" heard them? Then you argue, and defend them ad nauseum. Your numerous defenses of the intent behind these words, is a constantly
rotating door of endless examples! You want an example, look in the mirror. It will make you dizzy, it makes me
dizzy just looking at it. I might loose my hands trying to
grab just O-N-E example- PASS!
I am not willing to play at your level of pretend
ignorance. You wear your intent tattooed on your forehead.
I am supposed to play ignorant in treating you like the
"Emperor and his new clothes". I am not playing games!
I am fighting for my Music, you want to severely restrict my access to my Music. Magically I lose selection everyday
with optical disk. You say "It isn't us, give us an example". I open your holy Bible of promoting Computer
Audio Downloading. Your first Commandment says, "Soon all
New Music will only be available as Music Downloads". Your
Bible also describes this as "Inevitable", and "Unavoidable". Either you guys are promoting this belief, or it is being ordained by God. Don't see the God
connection, "DO" see alot of guys "PLAYING GOD". Must be a
special place for those whose ego is based on stealing
someone else's Music. Paranoid, sure- NOW GIVE ME THE CHOICE OF MY DAMN MUSIC BACK!!! Enough of trying to
manipulate everyone by Rook, or by Crook. You are not very good at know the rest! "PARANOID" because I
demand a "CHOICE", I can live with that! I cannot live with "COMPUTER BUREAUCRATS" running bureaucratic interference, rules, regulations, and technobabble between
me and my Music. Yours is a "JIHAD", or "HOLY CRUSADE"
against Optical Disks. You don't understand why some of us get upset with being swepted up in some of your "REFORMS"?
If you can't understand- I don't know what to tell you!
Are you going to demand that we all get "BAPTISED" in the
Holy Order of "Computer Audio"? Foresake all other beliefs-
(Formats)? I always hated "NECROMONGERS"! I think, therefore I am, and I can choose. I choose not to be caged
like an animal with the chain of a single Format hanging
around my neck. "I AM A FREE MAN"! I can see beyond the
boundaries of my Computer Screen, just like I can see beyond the end of my nose. How about you? You haven't got the Selection- WORK ON IT! GETTING TIRED OF SAYING THAT!
the lack of availability of some recordings I guess is down to a lack of interest. The very reason SACD and the others failed to take off. It's a real shame. But if you know where to look you will find them.

Regarding knowing which release is which? I do understand if you are downloading illegally that this could be a problem. It is this behaviour which threatens your beloved disks. Not us.

If legitimate download sites are the vendors, they do tend to have the details of the recording. I have stumbled across some very anal sites mainly for classical music.

I have some Sony classical recordings which were cleaned up, and mastered from the original 1960s tapes. They go into great detail about what they are and the technology used to bring it to life.

I have an audio buddy (record collector) who has reference books and a rather frightening knowledge of these things. So I guess if you are interested you do some research. Like any other hobby. Read the right magazines.

Your love for surround sound disks is touching, but leads me to believe you should be saving up for a good HT set up and forget 2 ch sound. You would be happier as you could buy more disks.

A nice receiver with a blue ray player and HDMI cable and you will be happy. Those chip sets are 32bit too. 192k audio... The glass ceiling resolution. Oh Sony what have you done? Lol
Petty - I ask again for you to give me one example - not surprisingly you are unable - and I am not surprised - you are unable because you are full of it and in fact there is no example. You have no data, nothing. You are a fraud. You go on an on for pages about nothing but paranoid lies. I don't want to hear yet another explanation from you on this - I want one example...O-N-E. Enough of your charade!
hi guys, I am writing from my phone on the road .as I feared h p wanted nothing to do with a new audiophile computer.
Acer had mild interest, they asked me to look at a model s5. they believe that they can modify this machine to work as an audiophile server.
I do not know that machine, if a couple of you would take a look at it I'd appreciate it , I will be back friday night and check the thread then thanks,They were talking about a $999 retail.
Chadeffect- I don't know how many times I have said it.
The best Digital that I have ever heard is the Dianna Krall, "The Look Of Love" Advanced Resolution 24/96 Multi-
Channel Meridian Lossless Packing Optical Disc. Does this
release even resemble a Home Theatre Release? I am strictly
two Channel, but I can Downmix 24/96 High Res. Multi-Channel MLP Optical Disk to two Channels. Still unsure how
to Downmix Two Channel 24/96 Download. What do I get, a
Mono Channel? Sure, I will give up my MLP for that one!
This is what you are demanding of me?
Speaking of demanding, how can you demand anything?
You cajoule, defend, argue, demand- and still you come up
empty of examples Hfisher3380! Did that mirror shatter when
you looked into it? Everytime you open your mouth you are an example! Not just an example; but, proof positive of your intent. You are the Charade! You have made your opinion quite clear, and still you want to play a silly game that you have stated "No Opinion". I don't need any
example. You are what you are- don't need any proof positive of that! You are self explanatory; because you are
transparent. Computer Audio remains an extremely redundant
self defeating exercise. I have no desire to entertain your reduntant exercise. Life is too short. You know, as
well as I do, as well as everyone does what your position is on this subject. We have to prove it to you? Hire
someone else to do it! It is certainly not my job, not my task, and I wont waste my time on it. Sorry- ask ten more times, and you will get the same answer! "Soon all New
Music will only be available as Music Downloads", is your
Commandment. It is your goal. Go ahead and blaspheme against your Computer God, and tell me different. Tell me
you are Judas- I don't care! I am not paying you any
Silver- nor any attention. Cry all you want to.
All of these things are simply distractions from the
fact that you "DO NOT" have High Res. Download Selections
enough to fill the void of High Res. Optical Disks. You are cutting out our Music by leaving this void, and leaving a High Res. Download I.O.U. in its place. I cannot listen to an I.O.U.; but, I can listen to a High Res. Optical Disk. A 32 Bit Download I.O.U., Multi-Channel 24/96 Download I.O.U., or a DXD Download I.O.U. wont cut it either. I am not taking an I.O.U. in lieu of a High Res. Disk that I can actually listen to. KEEP WORKING ON IT- or DON'T, and allow future High Res. anything die a miserable death. If R.I.P. is your specialty don't let me interfere with you. Just don't try to argue your doing this in the interest of Music instead of your egos. You expect me to believe otherwise...REALLY! K.O.A.- Keep Options Open on more than one Format. Your direct opposite of this is what, and what is the "NECESSARY" reason for it? Now there is the $64,000.00 question that cuts across High End Audio. Something a little more critical if you are into things maybe like...I don't know...MUSIC? If your not, then my bust for misunderstanding you. What are you into if not Music? Ruining it for everyone else? Narcistic powertrip? Sell shoes instead then- you will make more
money that way! LET IT BE- and just end this Thread. No
more responses. Let history be the judge, and let God sort out the dead Formats. THAT DOESN'T MEAN "YOU" PLAY GOD!!!
(Jeez! gotta spell out/ draw pictures on EVERYTHING-NUTS!)
Petty...accusations without proof are not even worth the paper / web space they're printed on. See ya later, troll.
O-kay Hfisher3380, you got the last word. I thought that is
what Trolls do. Troll see, Troll do?
No need to apply the scientific method to the Nth
degree. Simple subtraction, and common sense works just fine. You have less of anything to buy you have less to select from. You want to shrink the High Res. Audio Market
by getting rid of the High Res. Disks. 4-2=2 The end
result of "2" is less than "4". My High Res. is currently at "4". You want to reduce it down to "2". I scream foul
because I am now down by "2" on my High Res. Selection.
You expect me to eat this for the sake of....what? Yet,
you think that you are the one who should be upset. I am
the one who is getting short changed on my Music. I am the
one who is taking the loss. You have nothing to lose- why
are you so unhappy? You discount Common Sense as "Proof"?
Computer Audio will not continue to succeed in the Audio
Market without some applied "Common Sense". Too bad, I
kind of liked the alternative. You want to eliminate ALL
alternatives. You want to put all Audiophiles on life
support having to solely rely on only one Audio Format for
High Res.! This makes "NO SENSE".
as I said in my last post to condense the surround mix to stereo is no big deal really. They just fold down the rears change the panningn a little. Depending on the recording, one could pose more of a problem than another, but if it doesn't sound distant/too reverby/echoy then they have done a good job.

Don't worry PO, the future will be fine. The technology is here, and it is backwards compatible. One just has to be a little savy and keep up to date. Ask any teenage if you get confused.

Happy listening. Now I'm off to the Olympics.
"You discount Common Sense as "Proof"?".

Just the fact that you seem to think you have displayed even a shred of common sense speaks volumes.
Common Sense means that you put Music over Format. Common
Sense means if you want to increase High Res. Market
MANY Formats are the necessary vehicle for this. You want
to use one vehicle to deliver all of the goods sold in
America. You think that might slow down delivery, and
production a little bit? You think that this will
E-X-P-A-N-D the High Res. Market- single vehicle/Format
delivery? Atleast I speak volumes, you speak vacuum in
High Res. Selection. You are NOT in charge of choosing
my Music for me! Not the Format, not the type of Music,
nor the method of how I listen to it!
"Soon all New Music will only be available as Downloads".
This is "YOU" trying to establish BOUNDARIES, and
LIMITATIONS on how I will be ALLOWED to listen to my
MUSIC! Maybe in a Universe where you are "GOD", you are
"NOT" him! I am not impressed as to how you are running
the Universe so far. One "GOD" is enough. Stick to your
day job. If you are "GOD", where is the High Res. Download
Selection to replace the growing "VOID" in Optical Disk
Selection? For playing "GOD", you are not very good at it.
KEEP WORKING ON IT (High Res. Download Selection). I am
NOT impressed so far- GET BUSY!!! That is my "Volume Speak"
of the day. You must be the most "LAZIEST DEITY" I have
ever known. You want to play the part, washing your hands of all respondsibility just wont cut it. I AIN'T BUYING IT!
You want me to worship your Format, I expect SELECTION for
my prayers. You are not getting me on my knees for anything
less! Certainly not for I.O.U.s, or Empty Promises of
future High Res. Downloads. Got burned worshiping SACD/DVD-
Audio GOD. Prayed for greater Selection (Rain). Ended up
eating dirt. I don't think that your dirt is any different,
or any better. The gall of you demanding that I eat your
Formats dirt exclusively- THAT IS WHAT ANGERS ME THE MOST!
You argue incessantly because I wont swallow it. I will
spit it out in your face; because, THAT IS WHO I AM! Get
over yourself, or end up with allot of dirt on yourself.
omg. Lmao! I want this thread to stay alive as badly as comedians want four more years of George W. Bush. PO: I honestly believe you are out there....way out Pluto out there. Not because I disagree with what you say, but because your rants are hilarious, and quite frankly, a little scary.
Hi Guys,
I posted earlier about trying to get a manufactured to do a dedicated music server, Desktop and Notebook, HP blew me off, but Acer had mild interest. Acer thought a model S5 would be a good basis to work off of. The S5 retail is dropping in about a month from $1399 to $999.
Until Win 8 is officially introduced, they can't ship it, but I have an eval piece coming in a few weeks.
Is a pc version an interest to our community or am I wasting my time. Maybe starting another thread would be appropriate?
Devilboy- Computer Audio is like going via Pluto to get to
Earth's Moon! Can you spell R-E-D-U-N-D-A-N-T to an Nth
degree? What is next? Requiring me to perform human sacrifices to the Computer Gods whenever I want to listen
to my Music? Ever smaller, and higher hoops (Heavier
Computer Tasking) to jump through to get to my Music? Maybe
you can tease me like a Dog, and make me jump higher for
my food (Music)? Sorry Captain Ahab. You can travel through
"Perditions Flames" to get to your Music, if you want! I
can travel through a Quantum Universe instantly with
"Plug-n-Play". I don't have to worry about chasing White
Whales, or "Impending Doom"! I guess every Captain Ahab
thinks his crew is a "Little Bit Strange", or "Way Out
There"! I certainly disagree with what you say Captain
(Devilboy), and I am certainly more than just a "Little
Scared" over your small obsession in harpooning all
opposing Formats (Including Optical Disks). Were you
attacked by a Silver Disk? Did one cut your leg off, or
something? Well, "THAT" would explain alot! You have...
my simpathy. No offense Captain; but, I will wait for the next boat. Still not getting on the same boat as you.
I don't care how much of a "Nice Guy" you really
are once someone gets to know you. You are Sociopathically
Obsessed against all things non-Computer Audio. I have no
qualms with using Computer Audio with other Formats. I am
just not going to play my Guitar with Wasapi, Kernel Streaming, Defragmentation Software, Back-up Hard Drive,
Anti-Virus Program, Anti-Malware...etc...etc...etc. There
are easier ways to play a Guitar, and a whole hell of alot more fun! Of course you would obsess over using these things on anything that produces Music. You just can't make me do the same, and "THAT" is why you disagree.
Petty, I'm really not sure why I'm still responding to you - but I intend to say this one last time. I don't expect you to listen to me because you haven't shown any inclination to listen over the first 266 posts, but you continue to accuse me of ridiculous things so I will defend myself one last time.

At no point did I ever say I would like to wipe out any other formats. In fact, my number one format remains vinyl. I still have a large collection of CDs. I have given up on SACD but harbour it no ill will. Just because I have chosen to adopt computer audio does not mean I want to wipe out other formats. And even it I did, it wouldn't matter - I am just one consumer.

That's why when I ask for you to supply proof of you accusations you are unable - because there is none. I have absolutely zero intention of any format being wiped out - and why would I?

Your repeated baseless accusations give you precisely zero credibility. Somewhere buried in your ridiculous tirades there may be legitimate points but they are completely lost because you have zero credibility at this point.

I'm sure you will continue your crusade or whatever it is. No matter what we say you will continue to accuse us of all sorts of crimes. In the end we are audiophiles and music lovers who happen to use computers to help us enjoy music - that's it.

I don't intend to address this any further because I've grown weary of your nonsense. You obviously came on here looking for a pissing match and a pissing match you found - but I will indulge you no longer.
Hfisher, agree 100%..... of course
Mapman, I don't speak yiddish, but I think he is crazy too
Thanks Timlub - and regarding your query on a "made-for-audio pc", personally I am a very happy Mac user so it probably wouldn't be of any interest to me. Perhaps a new thread would give you more idea - I think many have already tuned out of this one!

What we really need to hear is if something like this would be of any interest to a nihilist like pettyofficer - after all he was the one who suggested it in the first place. Wouldn't it be priceless if it was Petty himself who spurned the idea for a venture like that...?! ;)
Thanks for the reply Hfisher, just don't want to spend my wheels pushing to get a prototype made if there is really no interest... I'll probably give another thread a try.
Don't want to spend my entire life exchanging barbs. If you
can't agree to disagree- that's O-kay. My ears can hear a
difference between a 24/96 High Res. Optical Disk, and a
24/96 Downloaded Music File (Same Release). Different
Releases, different Sound Quality. Sometimes the Disk
Sounds better, sometimes the Download. How is this possible if both are made from same Music File? I want
whatever version sounds the best for all releases. Blue-Ray
Audio Version, SACD Version, High Res. Multi-Channel MLP
Version, High Res. Download Version. You say they all sound
the same comming from same Music File. I hear a difference.
I believe that they are Remastered differently, and that is
why I can hear a difference. I will keep on appreciating
that difference untill all of the Optical Disks run out. I
will keep on using Downloading as well. I don't hear one
sounding consistently better than the other over many Releases. I get a mixed bag of results. I will pursue whichever Release sounds the best in its respected Format.
I will pursue this so long as limited Optical Disks will allow. I can burn disks; but, I don't believe that I can
Remaster, and produce Optical Disks as well as Professional
Recording Studio's. Concidering that they have the Master
Analog Tape to work with. I have only the Music File.
Inevitable that Downloading will eventually take over.
Will eventually just have to deal with it. Sorry for the
insults. Passions over Music can carry one away. I think
that everyone will survive, including me. No one has lost
any skin here, no one is entitled to any in retribution.
No first blood has ever been drawn. I'm out of your hair
permanently. Computer Audio will be the only thing left in
dealing with Sound Quality. Hope that it is dealt with well. LAST RESPONSE, LAST THREAD (This time I hope that I
mean it!).
Hey guys
Are we all wasting our time here? This computer based music streaming, does it actually and within 2k US for the complete Mac MIni or PC + Software + USB converter, really provide a fantastically high quality signal into a DAC of your choice??

Because, if it doesn't, and I mean right now, not later with future mods and software etc. 2K US will buy a REALLY good CDP that kinda shoots all this in the foot somewhat!

Lets forget the convienience here, and stick to QUALITY. If you don't, you may as well go onto the Walmart Audio Forum....
Don't meam to be rude, Sunandmusic. This Thread was ended way back in August 2012. No one is paying attention, or responding since then. I wanted the "LUXURY" of playing Optical Disks as well as Downloads. I lost that arguement in a really big way. This Thread is R.I.P.- so are the Optical Disks. "Abandon All Hope All Ye Who Enter Here"!
S-O-O-O...S-A-D !!! No turning back now, we have burned that Bridge. I don't even know where to get ANY Music from anymore. Most of it is just hopelessly splintered across many sources across the Internet. You have to really pull teeth to dig out your desired selection from many sources. Then there is always "I-Tunes". Sounds like "Looney Toones"."Budda-Budda-Budda....That's All Folks"! I can just picture Porky Pig welcoming Lost Souls across the Gates of Hell...."That's All Folks"!
Like Lazarus this thread now rises...

Sunandmusic, no matter how much you spent on a VHS recorder, a blue ray player would be much better. The ability to transfer & decode data is best left to the computer.

This with all things considered (see the many above posts) is where CD transports vs correctly set up HD&DAC is as a source. Things just moved on. Just make sure the ripping of the original data is done correctly.
...and be sure to keep the magnets far away from that Hard Drive. Be sure to hope against that next Solar Flare!
I talk Physics, Fragmentation, Magnetic Fields, and Round World (Real World) logic- Chadeffect. You are STILL stuck on Old Testament Flat Earth logic, and reason (Lazarus- are you kidding?). Tell me where you live, and I swear I will buzz your house with a Helicopter carrying the LARGEST Magnet available. You can hold your Computer Music Files up to it if you want. They don't call it the "Blue Screen Of Death" for nothing! What goes for your Hard Drive goes the same for your Back-up Hard Drive. Like trying to stop a bullet with a piece of aluminum foil. We
have already done the the magnetic particle Audio Format before, it was called a Cassette! We got rid of them because of unreliability, and they didn't last. As if a magnetic Hard Disk Drive would be more reliable than Tape. Oh, but its incoded with 1's and 0's this time! Well, that will certainly make it invulnerable. The INCONVENIENCE in Music Files is in their VULNERABILITY. FRAGILE!!! FRAGILE!!! FRAGILE!!! A fragmenting excuse for an Audio Format! It only appears to be Convenient only hiding its Vulnerable Fragility. Smoke, and Mirrors (Premium Price for that Smoke and Mirrors). I smell rip-off. All Rip-offs are sold as being Convenient; because, in reality they are anything but! Microsoft doesn't care about development of Computer Audio. I don't think a small group of enthusiasts are going to change that. You have no Research, and Development- you have no Audio Format. It is out of gas! What are you going to run it on- FUMES? Talk to Microsoft about helping your Format take over the World. I think that they are just jealous; because, they already own it. Why should they help you, or Computer Audio? Take your War to them. Me... I'm just passing through! You (And Microsoft) have alot to talk about- so...I will just be on my way! It ain't me you have to worry about, threatening your Format! Microsoft is your Audio God now. You chose them (For All Of Us). Thank-you kindly! YOU can put the money in the Till. I pass!
SUNANDMUSIC.... Why did you wake this guy up?
Now the bible says the world is flat and Microsoft is the Audio God.
Now that the world has not ended (yet), Petty arises!

Computer audio?

Or maybe it has and we are now all really in hell?
Just when life was about to get dull here is Petty. I needed more practice in typing.

Well we survived the Mayan 5,125 year cycle. I wonder if Petty will continue his trip as long? I for one would not be surprised.

Tape indeed Pettyofficer! The only tape we need is one which can be used to tie your hands to stop you posting such nonsense.

I look forward to your buzz with magnet. My house is entombed in lead many feet below ground. Like batman. Please come. The bass is deep and crisp here so I doubt I would even hear you above the system. So make many passes. A man like you is unlikely to have modern device like a phone, so please send a pigeon advising me of your arrival in advance.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.
No problem, Chadeffect! I have the Sun on my side. You can try and hide from those Solar Flares- you do know that they carry intense Magnetic Fields? You have some Computer Fairie Dust for that? If you ever poke your head out of your lead lined hole, and look North, the sky will look real pretty. The Audio Noise, that used to be your Music Files, will be of the highest Audiophile Quality as well. Solar Flares have been around a long time before I was ever born. Life has never been dull as long as they have been around. "The Computer Audio Gospel According To Timlub". These are your claims according to your Gospel- that real World Physics can be ignored, World is flat, and
Microsoft is a vicious Audio God that denies Computer Audio Sound Quality to everyone. You want Audiophiles to worship this out of "CONVENIENCE"? What, pray tell, are we supposed to expect from this? Do we Audiophiles go Mayan, and do self-sacrifice to the great Computer Audio God Microsoft? We sacrifice ourselves for lower, and lower, and lower Sound Quality- in exchange for more Computer Videos/ Apps/ and Computer Games? Gonna give up your monthly paycheck for a "Few Beans" of Sound Quality? Gonna throw in the towel/your life to sweeten the deal for Microsoft? Isn't THAT Special??? Who could pass up a deal like that (I'll PASS)!!! Computer Audio is supposed to be my convenient "TROPHY WIFE"? What Contest "IN HELL" did I win? "TAPE INDEEED", Dr. Smith! Computer Audio Sound Quality/ Selection/ Service is INDEED "LOST IN SPACE". You find it (And The Missing Link) you let me know! Cassette on a Disk with 1's and 0's instead of Analog. With Technology accelerating like this, why Warp Drive is right around the corner! Who are you kidding??? You want advance warning- just watch for the pretty colors in the sky. This
IS an act of GOD, not MY FAULT by the way. Take it up with your MICROSOFT GOD. You two have alot to talk about- I will leave you two alone! Merry Christmas to the both of you.
As Petty Officer, I'd like to wish EVERYONE a Merry Christmas also, but I don't celebrate it for the Microsoft God, just the one.... you know Christ...mas

I wonder if he knows the Audio God?
Sure I knew the Audio God. You killed him and replaced him with Microsoft. The Old Audio God was concerned about Music, and Music Sound Quality. The New one, Microsoft, ugh....what's their concern about Music Sound Quality???
Z-E-R-O interest in Research, or Development in Computer based Music Sound Quality. Microsoft can give a farthing about anything Music. They are Video/Apps./Computer Gaming Gods. THAT is where a 100% of their profit is. Music just takes away from their Profits. You don't have ANY MANUFACTURER doing development/research in advancing Operating Systems for the improvement in Computer Audio. Without it, your Format is dead in the water! In comparison
please reference all of the manufacturing research/ development in other Audio Formats. In comparison, Microsoft just rolls over and plays dead with Computer Audio. Neat Trick, but you can't use THIS to establish an Audio Format to replace all others. Microsoft is your Formats ball, and chain- and they aren't movin! No research/no development = dead Audio Format! It is simple numbers now, just do the math. Computer Audio will always come up short without Manufacturers support. Don't blame me! Take it up with your New Audio God (Microsoft) that doesn't want to be an Audio God. They don't like Music, don't want to sell it, and don't want to develop it. I fail to see ANY Computer Audio Format in this vacuum, more or less one to replace all other Audio Formats. It doesn't even qualify as an Audio Format. I ask "What Is It Then?", before I buy it! You just want to shove it down my throat regardless if I buy it, or not. I am not buying the "Pet Rock" version of Computer Audio from nothing more than a bunch of enthusiasts. Is this what our Music has come to? S-O-O...S-A-D!!!!! Give me a REAL Audio Format based solely on Music Quality, otherwise what is the point?
I'd be willing to bet big money that PO has a stump in his back yard that he argues with on a daily basis !!!!
Oh Petty, how I enjoy you crazy rants. Solar flares aside (in which obviously you would have no power let a lone audio!) all s well.

Before getting you into digital HD streaming, I hope I can encourage you into the use of paragraphs and punctuation.
I sorely resisted copying and pasting some relevant points on solar flares and what they can do if big enough and Chadeffect pretty much summed it up: anything large enough to affect our PC sound sources will pretty much fry everything else, so listening through our PC sourced systems will be the least of our worries.

I'm also a bit jealous at the thought that PO has a stump to argue with and all I have are some shrubs and low laying vegetation. A stump is stout and steadfast, refusing to budge, while a shrub is lithe and open to change.

All the best,
PettyOfficer, I really can't see any real truth or facts in your arguments.

As I see PC audio, it is a diy bolt together hobby for the keen audiophiles.
NO manufacturer like Apple or Del will ever produce what you are claiming should exist. It is our hobby, it is small town, 1% of the population if that.

Lets face it, our hobby is the same. You go out, buy a DAC, AMP, SPEAKERS, love em or hate em, and sell, and we go round again.

Now with PC audio, we buy a PC (no surprise that one). Then we buy a connection lead or USB convertor, whoa, that's technical! Then we buy a DAC thingy, hey I'm getting scared now... and then we hook the whole thing up to, yes you guessed it - an amp and a speaker!

So, let's rewind here. What was the problem? Oh, the virus thing, the software thing, the hard disc thing, the network thing. Like, how many in the real world can avoid those things. Deal with a bank, get a loan, apply for a job, plan your holiday, can ANY of those things be done WITHOUT a computer nowadays.

In my view being a Mac user since the first Mac commercially available, the set up is for chimps. If you want a real brain drain, and bugs and viruses, or badly designed software (I am talking system software and Office suits), buy a windows box!

The Mac hardware is SO CHEAP. Come on guys, you are spending more on interconnects, a bit of wire. A Mac Mini with Quad Core and SSD that can run a TV, stream music, play games better than an X-Box AND do your accounting on, hey it's a GIFT.

So, lets stop beefing, and lets enjoy the journey. Isn't that why we are on this forum, why we buy this stuff and build hifi kits ect. It the love of doing it. The software is also cheap, the massive external drives are cheaper than ever. It's potentially a cheaper route to audio bliss, way cheaper than Esoteric CDPs and fancy 2k interconnects.
No assalt rifles, Devilboy; but, you are still "Going To Have To Pry my CDs From My Dead Hands"! Really, I kid; but has it seriously come to this? You are kidding, right?
"Solar Flares Aside"? Have you forgotten how extremely suseptible those FRAGILE magnetic Hard Drives are to large magnets? First thing to fry will be the Hard Drives during a severe enough Solar Flare. Power Grid will go after all of the Computers controlling it go blank! CDs being affected, I don't see it. CD Player fried, Power fried, these things can be replaced. Music Files stored on your Hard to replace. My Stump can tell me when the last severe Solar Storm was, just look at the rings. Radiation retards growth. Sorry,
my Stump tells me just how rediculously F-R-A-G-I-L-E those so-called "CONVENIENT" magnetic particle based Music Files really are. It is the Cassette Tape all over again. Let them sit around long enough, and the magnetic flux just bleeds right off of them. This is Physics, Math, Science, Entropy, and Experience- not crazy rants. Fragmentation is real, Music Files are "CONVENIENTLY" disposable Music Trash. Sort of like the disposable lighter, and the disposable cassette. So long as you have a steady supply of replacements- no problem. You lose that your screwed. Same Magnetic Flux wipes Hard Drive, will certainly wipe your Back-up Hard Drive. Whoaaa- two Hard Drives at once, how CONVENIENT! Don't you guys ever watch BURN NOTICE? Micheal sneeks into a hotel room, and wipes the entire memory off of a Laptop just by swiping it with a powerful magnet. How about the Computer Geek from THE CORE? F.B.I. is knocking at his door, he is trying to destroy evidence. He wipes the memory of multiple Computers by swiping them with a powerful Magnet. You guys sold this "convenient" LEMON to the American Public as a place to store their valuable Music??? I have a Stump you can hide under. Hate to be you if American Public ever finds out first hand. You two will have ALOT to talk about (Along With Microsoft). I will just be on my way. I will be busy looking at the pretty sky. I don't think that you will enjoy it as much. There has just got to be a special place in Hell for those who steal someone else's Music/ Music Format- you think? You will be so busy shaking hands with so many friends there, you won't have time to worry about it. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of Guys!
Petty......Really, what are you trying to convince all of us to do??? You know we are all happy in our computer worlds. Why can't you just listen to your umpteen formats happily and let us listen through our computers without feeling the need to bash computer audio and for that matter, all of us that listen through a computer. I just don't understand what you are trying to accomplish. Please write all of your rants to companies that can do something about it. We have all heard what you have to say, you've heard our how much we agree. Take it somewhere to make a difference and please stop bashing here, where we can't help you. Tim
Timlub- I don't know how many times that I have said it! Save the Silver Disk Format along with the Downloads. Ten thousand CDs being out-of-print, and no longer available.
Can you say "Last Nail In The Coffin"? Write to the Companies who are doing this? Forcing us to buy the Downloads by eliminating the CDs? Buying disposable "Convenient" Music Files, as if buying anything disposable isn't a Manufacturer Profit motivating exercise? Why don't they offer a Music File replacement guarantee if anything should happen to your Music Files? Is it because, like Thieves, they know where the money is? You would trust them with your Bank Account Number, along with your valuable Music? My OPINION is to keep CD (MLP, XRCD, DXD...etc) around so as to provide Consumer LEVERAGE on Sound Quality from all of these Downloadable "THIEF-DOMS". You want to throw away any leverage I might have, put all of my eggs in one basket of a single downloadable Audio Format, without any alternative, force me to take risk with my valuable Music, hold my breath for more high resolution download selection, and accept the elimination of any high resolution alternative from Silver Disk? You want me to bet the Farm on a few beans of "Soon To Be Released" Sound Quality? I say that I need some insurance. You say "Give it up, and bite the bullet". Is this what YOU are trying to accomplish? I am bashing Computer Audio, and you are bashing me for doing so. You don't know the difference? Take another look at that long list above. What is "CONVENIENT" about any of it? I see the Consumer being thrown under a bus of a profit motivated single Audio Format. Z-E-R-O L-E-V-E-R-A-G-E for the Consumer in Sound Quality. Manufacturer's can just mop up with ever lower Sound Quality for cheaper Downloads at an ever increasing price- boom "$$$PROFITS$$$"! Step down from being an Audiophile? No Sir, we don't agree at all! You are trying to help Manufacturer's do this? You are not helping me at all by throwing me under a bus. Yes, I am NOT afraid to stand up to you TO MAKE a difference. I am not stopping you from listening to Computer Audio. Wish that I could say the same towards me, and Silver Disks. You show me the necessity for doing this, and not once have you addressed it. Changing Formats exclusively, is a big move. How about explaining the necessity for it this time, if Sound Quality isn't the necessity? Profit? Certainly NOT the Consumers Profit! Format Competition, not convenience, is the Mother of Consumer benefit in quality. My bread is buttered on the side of Sound Quality, not sacrificing it for Manufacturer Profit/Convenience. How about you? Ahhhh...Nuts! Don't waste your time answering that! You are trying to dictate to me how I should be allowed to listen to my Music, no matter how well you try to sweeten it. WRONG on so many levels!!! I know it, and you know it- enough of the B.S.!
I do not notice any shortage of CDs to buy. You might have to look in places other than traditional store outlets, like, to find them though. Current situtation may be better than ever, assuming buying from Internet sources is not taboo. I can easily buy almost any CD I want at a touch of a button today. USed to be I had to travel all over creation for hard to find titles and success was not a guarantee.
What Mapman says is true. Stores used to supply with all manner of CDs. Some even had listening facilities. Then, POOF! it all went away, didn't it?

Appearances are deceiving but Amazon and sites that are dedicated to niche tastes are out there and very easy to access. Admittedly it was nice to peruse the rows of CDs and put on some headphones to listen. Doing it by PC isn't as convenient because you could see more at a glance the old way, taking it all in. You could roam around, continent to continent, genre to genre in an analog fashion. Continuous, varying intake is what we're wired to do.

Maybe some of us (is that you know who?) actually resent the loss of this activity, the natural task, the way it was. I know I do but I won't throw my hands up in the air and decry the situation. I've had my moment of grief when Borders shut down their rows of CDs and headphones. I'm over it.

Just more due diligence is needed to seek out what you want. That's all.

All the best,
Petty, how about we come up with a deal, you buy me my downloads and I'll rip em for you for free. Everyone is happy!
Finally, Problem solved
WMP is REALLY easy, sounds good, and my cd's (except sacd's)are mostly in boxes waiting if they are needed again. What's the problem, other than of course always searching for better sound?
Been to Amazon, Silver Platters, Elusive Disk, Best Buy.....etc,etc,etc- many times over!!! Same thing still applies from all of these sources. What part of "NO LONGER
IN PRINT" doesn't everyone understand? There are close to
ten thousand CDs that are "No Longer In Print", based from all of these sources. About a hundred new releases of NEW MUSIC that are not going to be offered on CD. The issue,
Dear Timlub, is that there now exists a selection vacuum with missing CD selection, and missing Download selection.
Thanks alot for the Music Selection Vacuum. Thanks alot for not waiting until there was adequate Download Music Selection before pulling the plug on CD. Someone is not going to be able to listen to their Music tonight, because it is not available on CD- or as a Download. You just don't get it! You don't eliminate the Old Format until the New Format has adequate Music Selection first. This will be the first time that we are switching Audio Formats where the new Audio Format Music Selection remains "Soon To Be Available" as the availability in the Old Format is GONE! We have never done it this way before in the history of switching Audio Formats, and for good reason. What is the reason for doing it this way now? I thought that we were Adults here, and over premature.......ANYTHING! Are we just getting a little too excited, and eager here? Are we just a little too impatient? Getting a little tired of riding this whirlwind of chaos. Can't even agree on a standard for this Format, it is all over the map! Like
premature...ANYTHING, IT JUST LEAVES A MESS! Yuck! You made it, you clean it up! I am just tired of the mess, and living without Music! Sow your Wildoats someplace else, and watch your aim. DXD, MLP, XRCD, 32-Bit, 24/96, 24/192 will be gone from Disk with no new releases. Only 24/96,
24/192....etc will be available as Downloads. No multi-channel 24/96- 24/192 currently available as Downloads. No
DXD, No MLP, No XRCD, No 32-Bit, No Multi-channel available as Downloads. S-O-O...S-A-D!!! Can you RIP a MLP
Disk, Timlub? Are you going to need special Software for that too??? Cassette Disks with magnetic 1's and 0's, didn't we used to use Lazers? "Flintstones...we're the

zzzzzzz. Get a grip and stop smoking whatever it is that makes you crazy!

For gods sake learn to write in paragraphs. If you are worried about the loss of CDs I'm concerned about the loss of the use of written English.

Multichannel downloads hahaha. DXD? We have done this conversation.

Whatever you actually want as your "format" when that sun activity kicks off you will have no power anyway. So you may as well give up.
I think Petty is one of those nostalgia lovers that just yearns for the "good old days". I can understand that to a certain extent and share that fondness to a certain degree. My wife is even more that way. We live in a Victorian styled (but modern) house for God's Sake.

But fact is I am better off than ever today both in terms of music selection (of which I already have a backlog to listen to that will probably take years) and sound quality. I can't complain based on anything having to do with reality. Best to embrace the future and move on. That's the best way to help ensure a better tomorrow....I think.