Something Millercarbon has preached Be A Better Listener. Do not get mired in data.

At times I agree with @millercarbon. Not often but at times.

One thing he has always preached is "Do you know how to listen"?

Well this article sheds a little light on that very subject.

Yes Chuck that was a compliment.

Just provoking some thought and I may look a tweaks a little different (just not colored rocks).


Quite a few of us on this site have this belief. Data people always shouting. 

As I have gotten older my hearing acuity has decreased ( presbycusis) but my listening skills have improved.Part of that is attributed to the continual improvement of my hifi system and recording quality but also part of it is just sitting back, closing my eyes and concentrating on the music.

I have to laugh at some of the posters here who constantly negatively rail against products such as upscale fuses or cables or certain speakers which shall remain nameless.Either they have never bothered to listen to them or their system isn’t revealing enough or their listening skills are subpar. Possibly ,it might be all three. Hopefully my comments do not result in this thread being deleted.

I've long been a fan of Roger Skoff's take on audio and have linked many of his thoughts on the matter. He's a valuable resource in audio and a sage when it comes to how and what to listen for. 

Why you want to credit someone else for what Roger's been saying for decades is beyond me.

All the best,

@nonoise I am crediting MC for parroting Roger.

He is one that repeats this often here.


Some people should take their own advice including being a better listener. 

A good listener listens to all things and all people. A bad listener only listens to what they want to hear. So Good advice to be a good listener wherever that came from.  I think I first heard it on Romper Room maybe?   If you are going to do something then do it well. 

@jerryg123 , you must have selective hearing as there's a long list of members here that have said the very same things for the longest of times but have never had the need for a fanboy following to prop them up.

Maybe it's his style of self promotion that caught your eye.
Hooked another one.

All the best,

Rumor has it this was the 11th commandment but did not quite make the cut. 

The same dude who just recently discovered  diffusers after heaping derision on those mentioning room treatments?

@nonoise Not been here that long.

I follow no one and your star is loosing it's shine for sure.

I am hearing you loud and clear that you have no love for MC.

You do not have to slam me because you do not like Chuck.





Roger Skoff:

not knowing how to listen is a far more important problem than not being able to hear.

I would say for the benefit of some here, applies equally well to ideas as music.

Some of these guys, not you OP, but everyone can guess who I mean, they remind me of the guy who said, "Everyone learns differently. Some learn through the eyes by seeing. Some learn through the hands by doing. I learn through the mouth by talking."


@jerryg123 , why are you singling me out for what everyone is saying?
Inquiring minds need to know.....

All the best,

Oops forgot to mention: Data is a good thing not bad. How else will you decide what to listen better to?  Does not matter where your data comes from.   Could even be Millercarbon. 

Interesting...this may be a new groundbreaking trend.

Start a tread on someone who starts threads.




His do we even know which posters are Chuck and which are not? It’s all getting very messy these days. I better listen better. Yuck!

Jeez not sure. And not everyone.

As I said I follow no man.

you must have selective hearing as there's a long list of members here that have said the very same things for the longest of times but have never had the need for a fanboy following to prop them up.

Maybe it's his style of self promotion that caught your eye.
Hooked another one.


MC has TWO types of people that follow his post. pretty obvious isn't it?

The ones that say they don't like him and continue to post about HIM. Then there are others that agree with some or all or whatever amount he post and post their own thoughts about the SUBJECT. I find it all, amusing to tell the truth, to a point.. 

I had a guy just tell me he knew, I had a view point, but so did someone else, even though they were wrong.. LOL What do I care, as long as they DON'T come over to my place doing stupid $hit? I DON'T give a hoot. I was pointing out a series of flaws in a product but the the OP owned the product. Didn't want to hear the truth, he/she wanted to hear praise about a flawed idea and product.. What fun is that..

It's like a Baptist and Pentecostal arguing about weather the pews in the church are for sleeping in or dancing on. They are there to listen, and share above all else..

Not debate pew politics, besides the early preachers SAT and the listeners STOOD. My how things have changed..

Fanboy, maybe, for some, but for most it is a healthy respect for common ideas.
It's mutual that's why it is healthy.. Can't keep lettin' the dog crap on the neighbors law and wonder why there are burn out marks in your garden, AY? I never met a person I didn't start out liking, it was up to THEM if it stayed that way, just as much as ME..

TGIF retirement is tough, I'm telling you.. I had to watch them mow MY lawn, can you imagine that.. Someone else mowing your lawn.. :-)


My chickens are plotting mapman, you better be careful. They may pass on the salmonella express to your local supply route. Chickens are devious figuring on an early retirement. How hard could it be to lay an egg, I passed quite a few kidney stones.. Women or chickens got nothing on me.. 


Chickens aside, learning how to listen, learning the vocabulary of sound is critical in the enjoyment of high end audio. My partner of 35 years has always had much better hearing than I… she is a girl. She always to differs to me to explain what she hears. We both clap our hands over our ears when hearing high resolving systems with distortion, but she differs to me because I have highly developed listening skills. Listening skills trump small differences in hearing.

This last part of the article says it all...

We listen also with our own integrated history, we dont listen to sound, we listen to meaning...

Only inexperienced people in acoustic think they listen to the pure "sound" measured in hertz.. A perceived  timbre is like a human face....Not like an equation...

Thanks for the link....


Years ago, Anthony Cordesman (known to readers as "AHC" in his capacity as a reviewer for the absolute sound)let it be known that he regularly invited hearing-impaired people to participate with him as a review panel in evaluating High-End audio products. Even though challenged in some aspects of the hearing process, he found that they could still differentiate between better and worse gear and that their contribution was both valid and valuable. Limitation of their ability to hear, according to him, apparently did little to limit their ability to listen, and listening was by far the more important ability.


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*ah*, the Royal 'We...' *sigh*  Bound to have happened, and it did...

Celibacy Celebrity has gone to a head, volume to 11,  the klaxon kall to arms (left, right, left....)...

The line for autoaudiographics starts......where? ;)

"A noted master of his own mine....."

I'm nota'bot...

Chickens aside, learning how to listen, learning the vocabulary of sound is critical in the enjoyment of high end audio.


Amen. Learning to listen may include learning to describe sound; in this regard, it might be like odor. FWIW:

"Numerous studies with English speakers support this view: there are few terms for odors, odor talk is infrequent, and naming odors is difficult. However, this is not true across the world. Many languages have sizeable smell lexicons — smell is even grammaticalized. In addition, for some cultures smell talk is more frequent and odor naming easier. This linguistic variation is as yet unexplained but could be the result of ecological, cultural, or genetic factors or a combination thereof. Different ways of talking about smells may shape aspects of olfactory cognition too."


Still trying to figure out if this site is hate or audio.  I can see why postings are low. When I do post I appreciate the help.  

That article would have been much more helpful if he actually provided a set of tips on what to listen for. Yes, he provided some information on how bass notes are produced and knowing the different parts of a bass note might help determine if your system is capable of distinguishing those parts and would therefore be called a "good system", but other than that info the article was extremely light on what to actually listen for. 

He also said determining "the same pair of colored glasses" of our hearing is of no value at all, but viewing the world through rose colored glasses means being optimistic and I've read multiple times that there is far less damage to our hearing done by listening to loud music if we actually like the music we are hearing. Something about the stress associated with not liking what we are hearing combined with the volume that actually causes hearing loss. So crank it up if you like it.

New here, but reading some of the forums it seems that so many of these “ discussions “ seem to devolve into a circle jerk of hypertrophic prostatic  dribbling contests.

Data is fine and has a place. 

And learning to listen does not hurt.

But splitting hairs and being self absorbed is a wasteland.

Just get up and dance. 


At the end of a day, one has to love AG....or, find it annoying enough to still be drawn like a moth to the flame that will engulf it... ;)

There are those that remain 'techie' learns from them, although wheat from chaff still remains work.

There remains those that remind one of cats with tails entwined, slung over a clothesline (Remember those?  Source of the still popular descriptive 'fail' move...), and what generally happens...

The 'good natured' variety is somewhat funny....others?  Not so much.

Voting with @jpwarren58 on this one...volume to 9, and remember why you're hear, not expound....

( surprise, I hope, how often I drown y'all out....)

...and I am Definitely not a 'bot....;)

@millercarbon ...*L*  Since you've seemed to have been 'detected and dejected' into the meme of 'Default Audio Buddha'....'Elected by habit, denied option, desired yet debated to the point of detest by others...;


Checkmate? ;)

('Bots' can't 'do this'....yet....😏...)

I just know a lot about audio, find it fascinating, and enjoy answering questions and helping people. In doing so I help myself in the process. Because, writing concise informative answers calls for having ones thoughts in order, and writing as with most things improves with practice. So I get better at both. Plus I had a lot of time to kill at work.

Now being retired I have actually cut back a bit.* But the quality is higher. This is a big plus. The people I want to help get helped even more, and the people I don't their heads explode even more. Audio you see is not a zero sum game. Do it right and we all win.

*As millercarbon. Posting as my other 13 aliases is turning into a full time job. By the way have you noticed Tsushima, nonoise and fuzzball never post at the same time as me? Think about it.

Living "rent free" never ends for you, does it MC?

The word "humble" eludes you. Just like the Fonz trying to say the word love. He just can't do it.

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My hearing is fine, but my wife might sometimes say that my listening isn't...

Could there be an equivalent with audio systems?

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@dabel Nice try. I get notifications as this is a thread I started. I am following my thread and I follow no man.


I Robot

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